What territory do Palestinians have that is free of Israeli occupation? In what territory do they exist where the Israeli government does not control their access to food, water, electricity, and therefore live free of Israeli command? In my eyes you make the same mistake over and over by accepting the equation that Palestinian equals Hamas. Hamas has done many if not most of the things you attribute to Palestinians as a whole, that there are no individuals involved, only Zombies hell bent on killing Jews, that’s their only purpose for existence, that Israel is this poor innocent naif that has only good intentions and would leave those pesky Palestinians alone if only they could. You accept the reality of what Hamas is, a terrorist organization. I do, too, and have said so many times on this board. But you put on blinders that forbid you from seeing the reality of what the Israeli government is vis a vis its treatment of the Palestinian people. Hamas didn’t just fall out of the sky completely absent a reason to exist. The relationship is far more complicated than Israel = enduring good vs Palestinian = unrestrained evil.
The organizations that provide Palestinian casualty numbers have been the accepted source by virtually the entire world, including the American government, for years. Names are attached to the numbers. It has only been questioned by our President this time. And I don’t know what dimension you live in but the MSM has been lockstep with Israeli spin from the beginning. If your last sentence was aimed at me I would amend it to say Israel is one of the evil ones when it comes to this conflict.
Germany has paid for Hamas to have their own water supply. In fact here is a list of the money that has flowed into Ghaza. Do you know what Hamas does with that project. This:
So they somehow have been able to separate the number of Hamas terrorists killed vs the number of civilians? Can you link the articles where they make this claim?
Why do Palestinians rely on Israel for anything? They were given Gaza to govern as their own, have received billions in humanitarian aide and have done nothing but build up arms to attack Israel. Where have all of those billions in supposed humanitarian aide gone besides weapons, building tunnels, fabricating missiles and of course providing a life of luxury for Hamas leaders? What exactly has Hamas done with the freedom to govern the Gaza Strip besides build up military assets they can use to attack Israel? With all those billions they can't build power or water plants to avoid relying on Israel? They can't invest in creating an economy that benefits the people? Hell all they have to do is ask Democrats for a few billion to build that infrastructure and US tax payers would be on the hook for all of it.
I'll ignore the first part of your reply because there is no way you will let go of your conviction the Palestinian = Hamas, and so there is not much point in our talking about it.
Just as you will not let go of your conviction the Palestinians do not support Hamas despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
1) Hamas was elected 20 years ago by a clean vote total as overseen by Jimmy Carter. Hamas received full support from Netanyahu and the Likud Party. When Hamas won the election Hillary Clinton complained that the US should have rigged the election.
They are direct quotes Dan
I do not say Palestinians do not support Hamas, have never implied it. I say the vast majority have no say in what Hamas does in their name. Someone on this board, maybe it was you, said a poll showed 70% support. I disagree with you on *why* they support Hamas. You think it’s because they hate Jews and want to butcher every Jew everywhere. I think it’s because Israel has treated them in much the same fashion as the Nazis treated Jews, and they see Hamas as the only resistance to Israeli occupation available to them. And, no, you don’t get to slither off the immigration pole like that. Tell me how Egypt or Jordan can set up a system of *legal* immigration for every Palestinian Israel chases into their country for the rest of time. If that is the criteria, that one country’s government chases its undesired to another country’s border therefore the other country is required to take them in, as you want Egypt or Jordan to do with Israel’s Palestinian rejects, then how does America escape having to live by the same principle when it comes to rejects that end up on our border?
www.businessinsider.com
It took me a second to understand what you were calling direct quotes since nothing in your post appeared to be a quote. Just so you know I’m here speaking on my own behalf. If you have an issue with Ms. Tlaib I recommend you take it up with her. As for Iran I would ask you to specify exactly what it is about Iran that you fear. I either read something or watched a podcast recently in which the Iran threat to America was discussed. I’ll try to find it and post it for you to read.
I understand the threat of Iran. I also recognize them as the puppet master of the middle east and many terrorist organizations.
How can I tell you how Egypt and Jordan can set up a legal immigration system when they will not allow Palestinians to migrate to their country? Why is that and why do you keep ignoring that question.
I’m still looking for that link. I thought it was on antiwar.com or maybe something by Paul Craig Roberts, but it wasn’t there. In the meantime tell me what you determine is the threat to America by Iran, I’d like to know what you think it is.
So Egypt and Jordan are off the hook for not accepting every Palestinian that knocks on their door? Somehow it’s those filthy Palestinian’s responsibility to stay in Gaza and be obliterated. What question are you saying I’m ignoring? Is it “why won’t they let all those refugees in?” In no small part because they’re refugees that have no way to look after their own welfare while seeking respite in a strange land. Also because they have no assurance that Israel won’t follow them into their land in its determination to exterminate them. The reputation of violence and anarchy you perceive is a successfully placed piece of manipulation to which you have embraced to your marrow. Virtually all violence in the West Bank, for example, is Israeli started, as it arms settlers to drive Palestinians out of their homes and away from their olive groves.
There is no cosmetic that will cover the mass slaughter being perpetrated by Israel. There is no amount of darkness that can hide it this time. The whole world is watching.
Actually my perception is based on personal expereince and the first hand accounts of numerous people I trust from the Middle East whom have far more experience with the Palestinians than any of us.
| Date | 16 February 1985[46] – ongoing (38 years, 9 months and 2 weeks) |
|---|---|
| Location | Worldwide |
| Status | Ongoing:
|
What makes you think I don't understand the views of others? I often disagree with those views, but that does not mean I don't understand them. The information you have provided discusses the perceived threat Iran poses to Israel. Israel is a foreign country. I'm asking what you think is the threat Iran poses to the US.Dan if you do not understand the threat of Iran, I don't think you are this naive. That is part of the problem of why you do not understand the views of others.
Iran–Israel proxy conflict - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Date 16 February 1985[46] – ongoing
(38 years, 9 months and 2 weeks)Location Worldwide Status Ongoing:
- Iran reinforces Syria and Hezbollah
- Israel tries to prevent weapon transfers to Hezbollah
- 2006 Lebanon War ends in military stalemate
- Beginning of the ongoing Gaza–Israel conflict in June 2006
- Israel tries to stop Iranian nuclear program[47]
- Iran grows major spheres of influence in the Middle East[48]
- Formation of the Arab–Israeli alliance
- Iran provides munitions to Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) in Gaza Strip
Yes, that is the universal NeoCon/Israeli talking point provided by the MSM ad nauseaum. I will bring up your principle one more time. You seen reluctant to apply your principle in every case. With the murder of George Floyd and the rise of BLM there were violent protests across the country, with people being murdered, buildings burned, probably a rape or two. When Donald Trump regains the presidency your principle says he is fully justified to go into every place where the rioting occurred and start imprisoning every person he can snare under the auspices that they supported what happened, imprisoning every leftist because he saw some of them cheering on tv. Your principle says he is justified to round up every single person in America he suspects may have supported BLM or the other rioters, round up as many as it takes until he has eliminated every last BLM person in existence. I assume you agree that he should do that.
My opinion is Iran poses virtually no threat to our country, and what little threat it poses is mostly in reaction to the interference our country has instigated against it. I'm still waiting on your answer to my question.
So, you oppose the prosecution of any one during Jan 6? You can't have your cake and eat it too.
LMAO. One is very much unlike the other. Israel declared war, to my knowledge no one including Trump has done anything close to that with the BLM or other violent leftist wackos.
No, I am in favor of the apprehension, prosecution and punishment of violent criminal behavior. I am opposed to dragnet apprehension and prosecution because the government was offended by someone who non-violently and passively support the perceived intent of the criminal activity. Let’s take me as an example. I had no idea a riot was planned for Jan 6th (barely remembered there was an event scheduled), had no part in the riot in any way, did not participate in it, did not know about it until after it had happened, was in fact a thousand miles away from where it took place. But once I heard about it I enthusiastically supported the reasoning for why it happened and said on this board I loved the idea of those smug arrogant politicians cowering under their desks realizing they need to fear us more than we need to fear them. According to Bearcat’s principle the FBI needs to hunt me down and throw me in prison because I have the temerity to cheer the riot. I respectfully disagree with Bearcat, I do not think I should go to jail.
The principle is the same, you just don’t want to acknowledge it. It’s easy to understand why.
LMAO. No Dan not even in the same galaxy.
I for one will cheer a permanent cease fire. If what you say is true it will be fascinating to see how Netanyahu spins his about face. It would not surprise me though. A lot of the "pressure" coming from the US is to work out a 2 state agreement, and the last thing he and Likud want is a permanent independent Palestinian state. It would set back the time table to govern the entire area by many years. Bibi has envisioned himself as a character who will be part of Jewish lore for centuries. An independent Palestinian state is his biggest nightmare. From his perspetive it may be better to walk away form today's slaughter even if it keeps Hamas in power because one thing he and Hamas have in common is a hatred of the concept of a 2 state solution.
The two state solution will never work. I'm all for it but I'm not naïve enough to think it will ever work. What will happen is the Palestinians, supported by Iran will start another conflict and Israel will be forced to defend itself again. Leading to peaceniks to do the same thing over and over again expecting different results. Muslims and Jews mix like oil and water, the sooner people like you realize that the sooner people stop being killed.
This makes no sense. If as you say Jews and Muslims don't mix, then no matter how many states there are there will be bloodshed. What the world has been experiencing is "the same thing over and over," and yet you seem insistent on continuing doing it. Perhaps it's people like you that need to rethink how to do things. The notion that peace will reign if only Israel will root out Hamas in the bloodiest manner possible is patently absurd.
I’m good with trying a 2 state solution but I know it will not work. When it doesn’t and people like you are proven wrong you can shut up and let Israel end the problem once and for all.
I want to hear you say it out loud: the way Israel will "end the problem once and for all" is by killing every man, woman and child that stands in its way, the Benjamin Netanyahu method of solving problems.
