PS. I promise not to argue those points, so as to not derail the thread. I'm just curious. PM me if you like.
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Man, you're asking me to throw my pearls before swine, and I'm loathe to do that anymore. (You're not the swine, to be clear.) I appreciate your request.@CBradSmith . Which points do you find to be egregious misrepresentations/outright falsehoods?
-BEST unemployment rate EVER For blacks, Hispanics (Obama said jobs would NEVER come back- terrible terrible and sad.)
-Has let out some soft offenders from prison that had disproportionate hard sentences.(Obama did crap)
- Has talked and researched school choice for the inner city blacks
- is best Pro life prez which everyone knows abortion kills WAY more percentage of blacks
how’s that just for a start?
You have to look at who Trump is running against- segregation Beijing Biden. He’s been in office 40 years and done nothing for blacks so I see TrumpThe economy was good until the Pandemic no doubt. Anybody who wanted to work could somewhere even if the jobs were service sector minimum wage which most were.
I will be surprised if he gets a higher percentage of support than he got the last time from the black community. Calling their protests against racial injustice “terrorism” and talking about shooting people protesting then sending in unmarked federal troops might cost him support. I know he wanted rioters arrested and violence stopped but the problem is when he speaks he uses words like terrorism or shooting loosely when he hopefully meant arresting people and stopping vandalism and looting and no tolerance for that.
A few months from now we’ll know which way the black community will measure his efforts.
I doubt the Hispanic vote will come his way because of the immigration issue, DACA, and the wall.
Like the bulk of your post, but would like you to revisit the portion of it where you discuss how racist it is that 90% of hispanic and 70% of black mortgages are declined.
I assume your/other mortgage companies are in the business of making money, and that is tied to risk/reward. Higher risk equate to higher down payments or higher interest rates. It (higher risk) also results in declines.
Can you go into detail about what variables your company/other mortgage companies are using that is introducing race to the formula.
No sure exactly your question but yes - disproportionately getting incarcerated is a HUGE problem- but you need to look at the cause. And it’s poor education, poor family life and history.
BUT you need to hit the root of the problem and it’s family IMO. Don’t wait till they get incarcerated and be retro active. So most of their school and family life are the cause - but THEY have to get themselves out at some point. You can’t keep having poor schools, fatherless homes and just throw money at the problem- then voting democrat and believing all the racism accusations from the left every 4 years - that needs to stop for number one.
I think Trump is school choice it is something to at least look at. Other suggestions?
It’s a good one about a real problem dividing us- I’m partial to itThis thread sucks.
Lotsa past history hard to change but it needs to at least start in a better direction.But what causes the racial disparity for single parent/fatherless homes?
What has caused the poor family life, poor education, poor history?
Is it just something inherent in African Americans and their community or is there a root cause.
First question: Not much. Number of total incarcerations is a small number compared to total number of would-be family units. Also, more than half of incarcerations are out within 48 months. That is not sufficient time to destroy a family that intends to stay together. 48 months represents around 20-23% of the life a typical kid spends under the supervision of a parent/parents.
Second question: No. Black single parent homes represented 22% of all black families in 1960 according to Census. It is now at greater than 55% (55% is a 2013 statistic). In 1960, white single parent homes were at 7% with the corresponding 2013 statistic being 22%.
Lotsa past history hard to change but it needs to at least start in a better direction.
Doesn’t matter your color if you have a bad home (you can a a shitty father and white and end up bad or no father and Hispanic or any color and be ok- it’s percentages)
Blacks need more Larry Elder role
Models Less al sharp tons and ben crumps- it’s tougher on their race but social welfare and reparations NOT the answer. They just need to get it together. I also KNOW voting liberal democrat hurts them year after year. Obama could’ve done SO much and just didnt
First, I am NOT in the mortgage business. My relevant background is in asset securitization (generally), not in subprime mortgage backed securities. Ask any mortgage provider who was in the business pre and post 08 crisis and they will tell you mortgage underwriting has been gutted for anyone other than prime risks. Today, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are 96% of all sub-prime mortgage lending. Even tight underwriting at Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac, with an average credit score in the high 700 has created a scenario where homeownership is at a 50-year low, and A LOT of people (heavy on minorities) are boxed out of the mortgage market. Due to Dodd Frank, FDIC and other regulated lenders simply are not allowed to entertain these credits and the gov't programs don't fill the gap. Certainly credit is too tight for a vast number of people who would like to own their home. And that effects minorities the most, regardless of reason. Yes, minorities credit ratings themselves is an entire different subject, but a great example is a hispanic family with a valid tax ID # where Mom and Dad both work multiple jobs and they are, again because of Dodd Frank, mostly relegated to "off bank" mattress money.....thousands of which have more than $50,000 of mattress money stowed away and can afford an appropriate down payment.
Your statement about risk and reward is correct, yet most people fail to realize that the credit risk pendulum has swung much too far in the other direction. IMO (and I'll put my money where my mouth is) it is NOT higher risk that results in declines, as you suppose. It is simply unfriendly regulatory environments that have led to unreasonable underwriting standards even in the subprime space.
It is also endemic to the mortgage structure itself, where foreclosing on a mortgage has become too costly, to unwieldy and too time consuming.
And none of that has anything to do with race. It is just that these minorities are largely sub-prime borrowers that the system has changed to box them out. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac could be a solution, but they too have allowed the pendulum to swing too far.
The solution I will invest in is a non-regulated solution that solves the legal structural problem, finances the down payment and eases the borrower into home ownership where the investor is protected in the event of default....all financed with non bank structured finance (securitization). As part of our due diligence, our investee was forced to perform a 75 home beta test in the OKC market. 90% of the beta test is hispanic. Covid 19 provided the perfect stress test as 8 of the 75 lost their jobs in Covid and became delinquent. 6 of the 8 caught up immediately (partly through reemployment and partly from mattress money). The other 2 said they were leaving the city for employment and defaulted. Due to the unique structuring, the company made a profit on the 2 defaults.
Home ownership is the cornerstone of a free society and most people, especially sub prime borrowers, would prefer to own. Yet, we are at a 50 year low in ownership as the prices, structures and underwriting for even government risk-subsidized lending has left too many people with zero options. This problem is primarily in homes under 300,000. It just so happens that minorities are taking the brunt, regardless of risk reward
Edit: probably a discussion for another day, but the credit rating agencies also are guilty and their rating algorithms are vastly outdated. There are people out there that have never missed a payment of any type in 30 years that have atrocious ratings
In the end it is their job to “catch up” for lack of better words no? We do our damndest in this country to make it all equal- I think I said it best I can we need fathers and role models to step up, we need better inner city schools, we need to quit voting 90 percent blacks for liberal democrats.So they should just suck it up and get it together even though we recognize history and society had a factor in putting them where they are right now as a race?
I’m not trying to put words in your mouth. I am seeking understanding.
In the end it is their job to “catch up” for lack of better words no? We do our damndest in this country to make it all equal- I think I said it best I can we need fathers and role models to step up, we need better inner city schools, we need to quit voting 90 percent blacks for liberal democrats.
But yes it’s up to them to step it up- Larry Elders words that I agree with - he’s greatly respected also. You don’t think it’s governments job with reparations I hope- that’s another apple to bite into
No, I’m not a “reparations” guy...as I define that term.
I disagree that we as a society have done nor do we do our damnest to make it all equal or to address the disadvantage we placed them in through slavery, Jim Crow, and segregation.
I’m sure you will disagree with this point, but your description of them being given an unfair hand by American history and society....that they didn’t start at the same starting line as a culture and that it is now their job to “catch up” is an expression of what many consider “white privilege”. Some in our society weren’t allowed to start the race for success at the same time, and for a long time the playing field was not level, and now that the playing field is arguably/debatably level, the AA community is responsible for catching up.
Finally, I again want to stress that I’m not a Democrat. I’m not looking to argue either. I’m looking for understanding of other people’s views and for common ground on which to build.
Now, dnhall, tell us what Obama did for the blacks?-BEST unemployment rate EVER For blacks, Hispanics (Obama said jobs would NEVER come back- terrible terrible and sad.)
-Has let out some soft offenders from prison that had disproportionate hard sentences.(Obama did crap)
- Has talked and researched school choice for the inner city blacks
- is best Pro life prez which everyone knows abortion kills WAY more percentage of blacks
how’s that just for a start?
How many other ethnicities came to this country in the last 50 years not even speaking the language but are thriving today through hard work and perseverance? Just look at the Vietnamese as an example. Any way you slice it, 2 parent families make ALL the difference in the world.No, I’m not a “reparations” guy...as I define that term. I would characterize myself as more of a “hand up instead of a handout” kinda guy.
I disagree that we as a society have done nor do we do our damnest to make it all equal or to address the disadvantage we placed the AA community in through slavery, Jim Crow, and segregation.
I’m sure you will disagree with this point, but your description of AAs being given an unfair hand by American history and society....that they didn’t start at the same starting line as a culture....and that it is now their job to “catch up” is a really good description of what many call “white privilege”. Some in our society weren’t allowed to start the race for success at the same time, and for a long time the playing field was not level, and now that the playing field is arguably/debatably level, the AA community is responsible for catching up. Recognizing that doesn’t demean or devalue their accomplishments, IMO. It doesn’t mean they didn’t fairly earn every accomplishment they have made. It’s just a recognition and acceptance that AA community weren’t allowed to start the race at the same time as others and faced an non-level, uphill for them, playing field even after they started pursuing the American Dream.
You got data to support that figure?. .. believe 95% (or some high percentage) of people seek to project rather than understand.
You didn’t just say white price late did you?! LawdyNo, I’m not a “reparations” guy...as I define that term. I would characterize myself as more of a “hand up instead of a handout” kinda guy.
I disagree that we as a society have done nor do we do our damnest to make it all equal or to address the disadvantage we placed the AA community in through slavery, Jim Crow, and segregation.
I’m sure you will disagree with this point, but your description of AAs being given an unfair hand by American history and society....that they didn’t start at the same starting line as a culture....and that it is now their job to “catch up” is a really good description of what many call “white privilege”. Some in our society weren’t allowed to start the race for success at the same time, and for a long time the playing field was not level, and now that the playing field is arguably/debatably level, the AA community is responsible for catching up. Recognizing that doesn’t demean or devalue their accomplishments, IMO. It doesn’t mean they didn’t fairly earn every accomplishment they have made. It’s just a recognition and acceptance that AA community weren’t allowed to start the race at the same time as others and faced an non-level, uphill for them, playing field even after they started pursuing the American Dream.
Lebron has black privilege if you want to go that route- white boys gotta work way harder- they should what....scream black privilege?! AsNo, I’m not a “reparations” guy...as I define that term. I would characterize myself as more of a “hand up instead of a handout” kinda guy.
I disagree that we as a society have done nor do we do our damnest to make it all equal or to address the disadvantage we placed the AA community in through slavery, Jim Crow, and segregation.
I’m sure you will disagree with this point, but your description of AAs being given an unfair hand by American history and society....that they didn’t start at the same starting line as a culture....and that it is now their job to “catch up” is a really good description of what many call “white privilege”. Some in our society weren’t allowed to start the race for success at the same time, and for a long time the playing field was not level, and now that the playing field is arguably/debatably level, the AA community is responsible for catching up. Recognizing that doesn’t demean or devalue their accomplishments, IMO. It doesn’t mean they didn’t fairly earn every accomplishment they have made. It’s just a recognition and acceptance that AA community weren’t allowed to start the race at the same time as others and faced an non-level, uphill for them, playing field even after they started pursuing the American Dream.
Lebron has black privilege if you want to go that route- white boys gotta work way harder- they should what....scream black privilege?! As
My Uncle who raised taught me- nobody gonna do it for you.
It’s simple- if the black community wants to move up or any other ethnicity then They not gonna get it done by talking about the past- they have to do for themselves- the playing field is level as much as can be.
You want to talk poor or no privilege? Where my family grew up in West Va and Kentucky makes the ghetto look like Hollywood- please don’t talk to me about white privilege- it ls BS. There is wealth privilege or smart privilege —- lotsa privileges. How about the Asians and whites who didn’t get into the Ivy League schools bc they weren’t black? Hmmmm....
You didn’t just say white price late did you?! Lawdy
What did you think I would say- “hey your right Im Ashamed of my whiteness“. Yeah right- I’m notI predicted in an offline DM conversation that his would be the response that I would get.
Thanks for the conversation up to this point.
I can play it like Lionel Ritchie....”all night long!”What did you think I would say- “hey your right Im Ashamed of my whiteness“. Yeah right- I’m not
How about white trash do they have white privileged? I’ve been called that growing up for sure. Honest question no need to get offended- we are having a good run
What did you think I would say- “hey your right Im Ashamed of my whiteness“. Yeah right- I’m not
How about white trash do they have white privileged? I’ve been called that growing up for sure. Honest question no need to get offended- we are having a good run
Yes that will get me defensive- it’s cliche and a weak excuse- defensive but not offended. You can still answer my question if white trash has white privilege. Im sorry if I came off as offended- I really enjoyed the convo No BS.I’m not offended.
You seem to be.
What would you call the AA community being disadvantaged by slavery, Jim Crow, and segregation to the point where they still haven’t (your words) “caught up”?
Because right up until the speaking of the dread “WP”...that sentence above is where we had ended up.
It’s clear that consideration of the possibility of the dread “WP” is a bridge too far for you. I understand that. I have not interest in trying to convince anyone of anything in this thread. I’m seeking understanding and common ground. It’s clear that the dread “WP” discussion has no chance of generating any of that so I don’t see much need to engage in that direction any further.
Yes that will get me defensive- it’s cliche and a weak excuse- defensive but not offended. You can still answer my question if white trash has white privilege. Im sorry if I came off as offended- I really enjoyed the convo No BS.
And if you want to answer Also if blacks are not the ones who will “get them Off the snide” or as YOU said they were handicapped from the past (which I agree) If the term “catch up” was not good I am not a “Wordsmith” by no means. Like I say I can speak of white trash as I can speak from experience and I had no privilege that I was aware of except a decent brain and a GREAT work ethic and refusal to fail. And Uncle Steve et al
I didn’t feel handicapped
Now, dnhall, tell us what Obama did for the blacks?
Got a lot of them healthcare to start. Inspired many AA to aspire to dream for greater success for themselves through his own example. He assisted many people of color to get elected so their views were included in governance. Put some AA in his cabinet as Attorney General and Secretary of defense. And overcame the recession of 2009 to start the longest period of economic growth this country has seen that Trump inherited. He also ordered the killing of Osama Bin Laden which made all Americans including AA safer and no repeat of 9-11.
That’s just a few things off the top of my head.
1. Gotta give it to you on Bin Laden- Bejiing Biden said don’t do it but as much as I despised Obama he killed the bastard!Got a lot of them healthcare to start. Inspired many AA to aspire to dream for greater success for themselves through his own example. He assisted many people of color to get elected so their views were included in governance. Put some AA in his cabinet as Attorney General and Secretary of defense. And overcame the recession of 2009 to start the longest period of economic growth this country has seen that Trump inherited. He also ordered the killing of Osama Bin Laden which made all Americans including AA safer and no repeat of 9-11.
That’s just a few things off the top of my head.
Holder is a weasel don’t ya think?I misspoke, no Secretary of Defense as AA.It was Transportation Secretary and Secretary to the United Nations plus Attorney General Eric Holder as AA cabinet members.
Nobody is ever going to get anything done by being a victim. Except BLM, I guess. They've got that "poor me" act down to a science with these big corporations. Not blacks, not whites, not my kids, nobody! That act gets old. I think people who teach their kids to think like that are guilty of a form of child abuse.Lebron has black privilege if you want to go that route- white boys gotta work way harder- they should what....scream black privilege?! As
My Uncle who raised taught me- nobody gonna do it for you.
It’s simple- if the black community wants to move up or any other ethnicity then They not gonna get it done by talking about the past- they have to do for themselves- the playing field is level as much as can be.
You want to talk poor or no privilege? Where my family grew up in West Va and Kentucky makes the ghetto look like Hollywood- please don’t talk to me about white privilege- it ls BS. There is wealth privilege or smart privilege —- lotsa privileges. How about the Asians and whites who didn’t get into the Ivy League schools bc they weren’t black? Hmmmm....
AA's such as Condoleeca Rice and Colin Powell had already held very important Secretary positions under Bush. That's nothing new. He did a terrible job of overcoming the 2008 crash. Never got above 3% in 8 years! And that's coming off a very low number he inherited. That's the worst track record ever for a President and it certainly is not the "longest period of economic growth this country has seen." No idea where you got that one. Obama was clueless when it came to the economy. Remember, he didn't have a "magic wand". Trump sure did. Yes, he did get Osama, despite the idiot Biden being against it (lol) but that's the military doing what it does. But, for the sake of discussion, we'll give him credit. On the other hand, Obama did give us ISIS in return when he bailed on Iraq at the exact wrong time. You know, those pesky little terrorists that Obama had no clue how to handle but that Trump disposed of within 10 months.Got a lot of them healthcare to start. Inspired many AA to aspire to dream for greater success for themselves through his own example. He assisted many people of color to get elected so their views were included in governance. Put some AA in his cabinet as Attorney General and Secretary of defense. And overcame the recession of 2009 to start the longest period of economic growth this country has seen that Trump inherited. He also ordered the killing of Osama Bin Laden which made all Americans including AA safer and no repeat of 9-11.
That’s just a few things off the top of my head.
Just came across this new article by Victor Davis Hanson. A bit long but it perfectly describes the myriad of accomplishments of Trump. And it really is quite astounding what he's accomplished in such a short time despite the coup and all the other nonsense of the left. He describes Trump, good and bad, to a T.Got a lot of them healthcare to start. Inspired many AA to aspire to dream for greater success for themselves through his own example. He assisted many people of color to get elected so their views were included in governance. Put some AA in his cabinet as Attorney General and Secretary of defense. And overcame the recession of 2009 to start the longest period of economic growth this country has seen that Trump inherited. He also ordered the killing of Osama Bin Laden which made all Americans including AA safer and no repeat of 9-11.
That’s just a few things off the top of my head.
Holder is a weasel don’t ya think?
Nobody is ever going to get anything done by being a victim. Except BLM, I guess. They've got that "poor me" act down to a science with these big corporations. Not blacks, not whites, not my kids, nobody! That act gets old. I think people who teach their kids to think like that are guilty of a form of child abuse.
AA's such as Condoleeca Rice and Colin Powell had already held very important Secretary positions under Bush. That's nothing new. He did a terrible job of overcoming the 2008 crash. Never got above 3% in 8 years! And that's coming off a very low number he inherited. That's the worst track record ever for a President and it certainly is not the "longest period of economic growth this country has seen." No idea where you got that one. Obama was clueless when it came to the economy. Remember, he didn't have a "magic wand". Trump sure did. Yes, he did get Osama, despite the idiot Biden being against it (lol) but that's the military doing what it does. But, for the sake of discussion, we'll give him credit. On the other hand, Obama did give us ISIS in return when he bailed on Iraq at the exact wrong time. You know, those pesky little terrorists that Obama had no clue how to handle but that Trump disposed of within 10 months.
Obama was a failed President and soon there's a very good chance he'll go down as one of the most corrupt since Harding. Without a fawning media at his back, Obama would have been exposed as the poseur that he was. Depending upon what Durham discovers, he still may be.
Nobody is ever going to get anything done by being a victim. Except BLM, I guess. They've got that "poor me" act down to a science with these big corporations. Not blacks, not whites, not my kids, nobody! That act gets old. I think people who teach their kids to think like that are guilty of a form of child abuse.
AA's such as Condoleeca Rice and Colin Powell had already held very important Secretary positions under Bush. That's nothing new. He did a terrible job of overcoming the 2008 crash. Never got above 3% in 8 years! And that's coming off a very low number he inherited. That's the worst track record ever for a President and it certainly is not the "longest period of economic growth this country has seen." No idea where you got that one. Obama was clueless when it came to the economy. Remember, he didn't have a "magic wand". Trump sure did. Yes, he did get Osama, despite the idiot Biden being against it (lol) but that's the military doing what it does. But, for the sake of discussion, we'll give him credit. On the other hand, Obama did give us ISIS in return when he bailed on Iraq at the exact wrong time. You know, those pesky little terrorists that Obama had no clue how to handle but that Trump disposed of within 10 months.
Obama was a failed President and soon there's a very good chance he'll go down as one of the most corrupt since Harding. Without a fawning media at his back, Obama would have been exposed as the poseur that he was. Depending upon what Durham discovers, he still may be.
Holy lol!!Really a non-entity to me. I guess he was serviceable and didn’t appear to be a sycophant for the President like Barr appears to be.
Holy lol!!
No shit, HighStick. How many times in one day can you just shake your head at the hypocrisy and ignorance? The sheer denial of basic facts by otherwise intelligent people. It was Hitler’s Minister of Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels, who said, “If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes accepted as truth.”Yea these people are brain dead. It’s embarrassing.