Who in the media do you trust implicitly and without doubt?
If your answer is anything but “nobody”, it doesn’t help.
As Ronnie R said about the Russians, “Trust....but VERIFY.”
Honest question...
- Thread starter bigjkt405
- Start date
Who in the media do you trust implicitly and without doubt?
If your answer is anything but “nobody”, it doesn’t help.
As Ronnie R said about the Russians, “Trust....but VERIFY.”
Typical. No proof just an incorrect premise to justify your nonsense. The facts on systemic racism are not your friend. It's strictly an emotional argument based on past injustices and then the normal and predictable aspersions that "you're an ignorant racist" when presented with a contrary opinion. You're staring in the rear view mirror, JD. A common affliction nowadays seemingly to give one's life a "holier-than-thou" cause. But what do I know? I'm just a deplorable.
A good discussion on systemic racism:
https://www.prageru.com/video/does-systemic-racism-exist/
Thomas Sowell on Systemic Racism:
https://www.foxnews.com/media/thomas-sowell-systemic-racism-has-no-meaning
https://www.prageru.com/video/does-systemic-racism-exist/
Thomas Sowell on Systemic Racism:
https://www.foxnews.com/media/thomas-sowell-systemic-racism-has-no-meaning
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I usually check against 3 or 4 sources in print. When there is agreement, there's something to it.
Bloomberg (surprisingly), AP, WSJ, the BBC are some among many that I like to read.
Yes Sinclair based news networks. They had their creepy announcement but it was it technically was warning against social media unsubstantiated stories. They are right leaning biased but doubt there is a conspiracy there.
Interesting to see the media bias ratings. Forbes, Bloomberg, BBC, Reuters, were all deemed to be the least biased left or right. Truly rated centric most of the time.
MSM or American networks that were liberal lean but close to the middle were ABC and CBS, and CNN online. CNN cable news was considered more liberal than their online version as was NBC News. MSNBC was deemed as extreme left.
Fox News was right biased but the news was considered right lean with their opinion personalities, Hannity, Carlson, and Ingraham were rated extreme right along with OAN, Breitbart, and Newsmax.
MSM or American networks that were liberal lean but close to the middle were ABC and CBS, and CNN online. CNN cable news was considered more liberal than their online version as was NBC News. MSNBC was deemed as extreme left.
Fox News was right biased but the news was considered right lean with their opinion personalities, Hannity, Carlson, and Ingraham were rated extreme right along with OAN, Breitbart, and Newsmax.
I prefer a system where every able bodied citizen contributes to society and supports themselves.
ABC, CNN on-line and CBS are close to the middle? Yeah, right. So much for the credibility of that study. And I love the expression “least biased”. Least biased compared to what? Antifa? The Nazis? Who exactly are they least biased next to?
Here’s the difference between you and me....
I’ve been asking you who you are, what you think and what you believe and addressing that.
You’ve been telling me what I believe, what I am arguing, what I think, and who I am, and getting it wildly, ridiculously wrong.
I’m seeking the possibility of understanding someone else’s perspective (even if I disagree with it in the end) and attempting to determine if there is any potential for common ground or compromise or change.
You’ve clearly let me know, more than once, that you’re not interested in trying to understand someone else’s perspective. You’re only interested in attacking it. You have made it perfectly clear that there is absolutely no potential for common ground or compromise or change with you, and that anyone that does not fully 100% in agreement with you is the enemy and a danger to America.
All of which is absolutely right. Believe what you want to believe, think what you want to think, say what you want say.
However, what is equally might right is to recognize that there is no further value in engaging with such a person. This was a pretty damned good thread with some pretty good exchanges between folks that don’t agree with....until you jumped in. Then it degenerated into the same old sad, binary, us v. them BS of the 24/7 board.
Respectfully, at this point I’m out with regards to engaging with you. So go ahead and throw out your “snowflake”, pat yourself on the back for “owning” another “lib” (which I’m not, but whatever), and be happy.
@CowboyJD I'm not seeing anything that compares young black males and young white males that are in the same economic boat. “Poor”
We know black people are arrested more, but the argument is why? Do poor whites with a public defender, same type of dress, tattoos and lack of English language get treated better than blacks with the same pattern? Is there an argument that middle class blacks, who speak above average English, dress respectfully and act respectfully get treated differently than whites who do the same?
this is a sincere question and is proof the left and right are living in two parallel dimensions. These stats of blacks being arrested disproportionately to their overall population should rely critically on these factors. We can go into why blacks are disproportionately less educated, more likely to not have a stable family and more likely to be interacting with police. That can be a whole other five page thread.
I fully believe in wealth privilege, but I’m yet to see these issues broken down so we can actually see skin color isolated from (Lack of) economic resources.
We know black people are arrested more, but the argument is why? Do poor whites with a public defender, same type of dress, tattoos and lack of English language get treated better than blacks with the same pattern? Is there an argument that middle class blacks, who speak above average English, dress respectfully and act respectfully get treated differently than whites who do the same?
this is a sincere question and is proof the left and right are living in two parallel dimensions. These stats of blacks being arrested disproportionately to their overall population should rely critically on these factors. We can go into why blacks are disproportionately less educated, more likely to not have a stable family and more likely to be interacting with police. That can be a whole other five page thread.
I fully believe in wealth privilege, but I’m yet to see these issues broken down so we can actually see skin color isolated from (Lack of) economic resources.
Who is the arbiter of truth? Only real answer is individuals. We should hold each other accountable to be reasonable judges of truth. Systemically we should use our votes to punish politicians who lie. We shouldn’t give eyeballs or clicks to pure propaganda machines. We should criticize sources we favor when they **** up. What else is there?
He posts like the self righteous liberal attorney that he is. Nothing new there. I’ve now arrived at the point where liberals are no longer qualified to tell us anything. We’ve seen the results of all your philosophies. We see it in Portland where there are protest every night destroying businesses in the city and the prosecutors refuse to press charges. Sheer anarchy and lawlessness. We see in Chicago that has been run by the Democrats for over 100 years. But mayor beetlejuice doesn’t need the Feds to come in and restore civility, law and order as blacks get assasinated on a daily basis. I thought Black Lives mattered, Mayor? Guess not. Your hatred of Trump is greater than your love of black lives who are relegated to living in the South Chicago killing fields. It’s immoral and inhumane. I think there’s only been four deaths of Americans in Afghanistan this year yet we have that many shot and killed by lunchtime on a Saturday in Chicago. Many of them innocent children. They were never given a chance.
We see it in Minneapolis. The videos of the destruction looks like something you’d see in Somalia. We saw it in Seattle where your fellow Democrats took over the city and created a Mecca zone. Whoops. That didn’t quite work out. And then one of the city Council people used her keys to let them in the government offices.
So, please stop with your arrogant liberal condescension. Liberalism is at the very heart of almost all the problems with the black race today. LBJ sentenced black families to the death penalty in 1964 and here we are. Exactly where Senator Pat Moynihan said we would be. Liberal policies got us into this mess. And your insistence to double down on failed policies are most certainly not the solution. No matter how righteous or well intentioned you think your crusade may be.
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One of those two reports address this African American culture generates more people that commit more crime argument.
One of them addresses further investigative conduct by police during traffic stops beyond just issuing the ticket which at least is an indication that minorities on the entire range of socioeconomic status are treated differently than whites across the entire range of socioeconomic status once police contact has been made. And there is a notable difference.
I fully agree with you as to the wealth privilege as well. Furthermore, as you say...we could could have a multi page discussion about the sources of racial disparity in socioeconomic status. We could have a discussion about why 39 percent of African-American children and adolescents and 33 percent of Latino children and adolescents are living in poverty, which is more than double the 14 percent poverty rate for non-Latino, White, and Asian children and adolescents.
I would contend that when there is both a demonstrated racial disparity in both volume and nature of further investigative conduct during said traffic stops AND a demonstrated racial disparity in socioeconomic status that there are systemic issues surrounding race in policing that should be looked at, evaluated, and addressed.
I want to stress that not once have I accused anyone here of being racist. Not once have I accused a cop or cops of being racist. A system of policing can develop issues involving disparate treatment of minorities without there being a single active racist in the system. I know from personal experience of 30+ years that actively racist law enforcement officers are few and far between.
@davidallen gave you a good starting point for research on wealth and race factors and resulting disparate outcomes. I would also propose that I personally don’t much care whether the disparate treatment of minorities is based upon their race alone or on their disproportionate representation in the ranks of the poor BECAUSE addressing the disparate treatment of minorities in policing....even if it is solely a result of “wealth privilege” that they disproportionally do not have...will end up addressing both issues.
I’m not interested in laying blame or labeling anyone a racist. I simply want just results for everyone whether the unjust, disparate treatment is based upon race, wealth, or (which I believe to be the case) a combination of the two.
We don’t need multi page discussions or even a seminar or a committee. We know exactly why there is a wealth disparity. It’s single parent homes. The poverty rate in black families with two parents is half the poverty rate of two parent white families. I just saved you several pages worth of discussions. And here’s the summary: BLACK FATHERS MATTER!!
This is A factor. It isn't THE factor.
I'd say that lack of urban home ownership is the driving factor in any racial wealth disparity. Now, the root cause of the lack of home ownership and it's disproportionate impact on the black community is the Urban Housing Act. While well intentioned, it has had a horrible long term impact and should be eliminated and supplanted by incentivizing urban home ownership at earlier ages.
There are also a ton of ancillary benefits to home ownership. It promotes policies that lead to stable prices. Generally that means keeping things policed, clean, organized, and maintained.
I like where this is headed, but would disagree that the root cause of disproportionate lack of home ownership in the black community is the Housing Act of 1949.
I would contend that the lack of home ownership in the black community is the practice of post-War “redlining”.
I would further contend that the Urban Housing Act was a misguided attempt to address that practice and mitigate those effects...that public housing projects was not the right solution, and ultimately perpetuated and reinforced the effects of redlining.
I would contend that a program of direct subsidies and benefits along the line of the VA loan program (but broader) coupled with both earlier passage and aggressive enforcement of The Fair Housing Act of 1968 would have better addressed the issue.
Redlining started informally among realtors and mortgage underwriters for a long time.
Then it was firmly and openly ensconced in public policy by Fair Housing Administration which was formed in 1934. It was clearly and obviously a government system or racism....systemic racism in the housing explicitly directed by race. It was openly set forth in the mortgage insurance regulations for the FHA, in the subsiding of building of communities by the government, and even in the housing standards being subsidized.
I would contend that the effects of that systemic racism in that government program continues to ripple through the African-American community and is the root cause of disproportionate home ownership we are discussing which @Ostatedchi recognizes is the continuing and primary cause of economic disparity in that community. If anything, those effects have multiplied through the generations denied by the government.
Someone looking to score political points in will point out that legislation was passed during a Democrat’s administration. Since I am not a Democrat, I’m perfectly fine with laying blame there. I will bet, however, that those seeking to score political points today will have a hard time admitting that it was a systemically racist act and/or that the AA community continues to suffer from the effects of that system. Until the effects of that clear systemic racism are addressed and remedied, we are not living in a post-racial society.
Then it was firmly and openly ensconced in public policy by Fair Housing Administration which was formed in 1934. It was clearly and obviously a government system or racism....systemic racism in the housing explicitly directed by race. It was openly set forth in the mortgage insurance regulations for the FHA, in the subsiding of building of communities by the government, and even in the housing standards being subsidized.
I would contend that the effects of that systemic racism in that government program continues to ripple through the African-American community and is the root cause of disproportionate home ownership we are discussing which @Ostatedchi recognizes is the continuing and primary cause of economic disparity in that community. If anything, those effects have multiplied through the generations denied by the government.
Someone looking to score political points in will point out that legislation was passed during a Democrat’s administration. Since I am not a Democrat, I’m perfectly fine with laying blame there. I will bet, however, that those seeking to score political points today will have a hard time admitting that it was a systemically racist act and/or that the AA community continues to suffer from the effects of that system. Until the effects of that clear systemic racism are addressed and remedied, we are not living in a post-racial society.
Agree. Now, define what successful remediation of the situation looks like. Then we develop some plan to remedy it. Measure the results. And when the predefined success criteria are met, the program is ended and we call it good - or as good as it can be knowing the history behind what was done. What will hurt racial justice causes is a never ending and ever moving set of goal posts.
Evidently you do. By marching under the BLM banner you imply support. You can't have it both ways.
That’s way above my pay grade.
I never claimed to have all the answers.
Unfortunately, I only see Democrats milking it for political gain and Trumpists not even bothering to acknowledge it and denying that it even continues to exist.
As always...it’s been a pleasure.
Well I didn't mean you to define success. More of the royal you. We, collectively need to define what success is and then agree on the rest.
And you are totally correct on the rest. Lefties only want to leverage this situation in order to gain power. When they next govern, it'll be about putting in systems that keep them in power. And the righties won't acknowledge the disparity at all.
Again....
Complete....
And...
Utter.....
Nonsense....
To say and claim that I “imply” something that I have specifically and explicitly spoken on is irrational and illogical. Or an indication that to don’t know what that word means.
Guess what? You don’t get to define what I do and do not support....you aren’t a mind reader.
You can attempt to conflate the entirety of the Black Lives Matter movement or the social equity movement with BLM.org all you want. Guess, what? They aren’t the same thing, and your attempts to conflate them into the same thing are simply meaningless.
You can infer, mistakenly I might add, anything you want, but...
Facts don’t give a crap about your mistaken inferences, your feelings, or your attempts to define anyone else’s beliefs or positions.
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Wow, looks like I touched a tender spot. That being said, I stand by the comment that your actions support the BLM organization whether you want to admit it or not. You can't have it both ways. The "movement" is a wolf in sheep's clothing and it happens everytime socialist try to gain control of a government.
Lol.
You didn’t touch anything,
No matter how much you stand by your idiotic statement.
Next to your posts JD is Einstein, Perry Mason, and Aristotle all rolled up into one.
Did you apply this same logic to same sex rights? The fallacy slope was the go to for those opposed to gay marriage.
The continued striving for racial equality can measure success by looking at data IMO. You could start with rates of incarceration controlled for the crime committed, socio-economic conditions, and lets thrown level of education. Today, the gap between white and black incarceration rates is atrocious. A young black male, no highschool diploma, out of work and poor is 3.5x more likely to be in a prison cell than a young, unemployed, no high school diploma, poor white male.
Could where they live (urban/rural) be a factor? I presume all would have public defenders as representation
IMHO if blacks would stop voting democratic at a rate of 90 percent they would help pull themselves out of that funk. Democrats make policies to keep them fatherless and dependent on the Govt (which is super corrupt) . No other group votes in this block at that rate it’s incredible. And the dems do nothing but keep them down after they elect them- so ironic.
Do we think the fact that black children in America have a fatherless rate over 75 percent have anything to do with those stats?!?! Holy crap that’s a slam dunk yes answer.
Let's take this thought a step further, because it is a statement that we have agreement on and I would like to see if we can build on it.
What do you think the core root cause of that fatherless rate of over 75 percent among African-American children/families is?
Have heard it’s somewhat due to the incentives of
giving poverty situations more money per each kid they have and it’s worth way more if no father in the home. Would like to hear some other reasons- would think it perpetuates itself bc those fatherless children (big chunk) have such a low percentage of success they don’t become fathers themselves as they don’t see it in their lives - just run around making babies and getting into trouble. Again not all I don’t have a percentage. The Dems are for abortion that hits much harder at black babies and they demonize anyone talking about these issues- guilt them.
White liberals and the disastrous outcomes of their pandering and misguided good intentions. Free stuff takes away the incentive to do the hard work of sharpening ones skills to be a productive and self reliant member of society. Government becomes the Daddy. Pays better to do nothing and more profitable to be a single Mom. The cost of freedom is self reliance. Anything that removes that incentive is subtraction and counter productive.
My mantra has always been: "I'll help the elderly and the unable but I refuse to help the unwilling".
And the amount of the unwilling is in the millions! Government handouts encourages and, in fact, makes it profitable to be unwilling.
I have my fingers crossed that this will be the election where blacks will cease to be a monolithic vote for the very party that has destroyed their family and subsequently their culture. ALL of which were heading in the right direction before LBJ's (not so) Great Society. Trump receive only 8% of the black vote last time. It may very well be wishful thinking on my part but I sense something has shifted. I'm hearing many more black conservative voices than ever before but, as a conservative, of course those voices would appear more on my radar. If he can somehow get up to 15% of the black vote then that changes the math on everything. I can't help but think that there's a growing and more affluent contingent of blacks who are as appalled and embarrassed at the looting and destruction as most civilized and law abiding people are.
My opinion:
1. Due to the lack of 2 parent homes, the male role model, the importance of the male in the family, is not being passed down from generation to generation. The wrong role models are being emulated as kids grow up in their community seeing how criminals are the ones "getting ahead".
2. Educational system - Part of the role of the educational system back decades ago was parenting. It was called discipline and teaching of morals and values. Times really changed, parents decided they no longer wanted this in the class room. This change was impacted by the fact you have more 2 parent households now working. This cuts across the entire demographic. The rich can afford to send their kids to schools that are not glorified daycare centers and can enforce discipline, teach birth control, and even teach religious beliefs and or moral values. Public school system needs to be fixed to provide true educational opportunities that can lead to breaking the cycle of poverty. But defeating poverty starts with eliminating child and teen pregnancy, and that starts with teaching respect for good role models. birth control, and proper goal setting with kids at a young age. I have offered up previously a long conversation I had on plane ride from Belgium to Washington DC with the #2 person the Department of Education, bottom line we currently can not stomach the level of accountability needed to restore order to our class rooms, so many schools will remain nothing more than glorified daycare centers.
3. AA culture, especially rap music, uses language that denigrates women, makes them sex objects, and does not raise a level of respect for women. Sure, music has always been about sex, but the lyrics to rap music is particularly concerning. It really sends a message that women are nothing but sex objects and certainly does not teach anyone to respect mothers.
4. Sex education has to start early, my first introduction to sex education was in the 4th grade in private school. We regularly had it, and the private school education I had we were taught every birth control method known to man by health care professionals. Birth control needs to be taught and resources have to be provided to do this for free. I also believe that young children and teenagers going thru an abortion has to be for some a horrible experience, do they walk away feeling they are horrible, do they not value life? Some can probably walk away fine, but for some it has to lower their self esteem.
5. The AA community, and particularly the AA leaders have to step up and be critical of bad actions and bad words in their own community, maybe they are but I fail to see or hear about it. The AA community has to admit they have a black on black crime and murder problem, and they need to ask for help as feverishly as they are for police actions.
The answer? Kickazz community centers. Multi-million dollar large centers that address the whole problem.
You have to give kids that do not come home to a normal situation a place to go to after school to get exposed to the following:
- Computers with volunteer teachers that help them with their home work, give kids the environment to learn and keep up in school.
- Social workers that can teach parents and particularly fathers how to be a good parent, get them over their own anger issues from being raised in a fatherless home, teach them the roles a good mother and father exhibit. The anger issue among males growing up in a fatherless home is tremendous.
- Social workers that teach young kids the roles of a mom and dad (someone just needs to fill the roles, regardless of gender), the importance of a family, and most of all that child or teen pregnancy almost guarantees a lifetime of poverty. They should be taught birth control and they should be taught the potential psychological impact of abortion for some.
- Have activities that the kids can get involved in that as they learn, provides self esteem. The list is endless, sewing, cooking (my parents were alcoholics and I was smart enough to teach myself how to cook so I could eat, I was cooking for myself at 8 years old at times, it is a needed skill even for kids), computer skills, personal hygiene, how to wash clothes and use a dishwasher, art work, etc...list is endless.
- Have great video games, like it or not that is what kids like. Use those games to teach kids, give kids a reason to want to come, meet them were they are.
- Have basketball courts that allows you have to have tournaments this can develop team work and provide important PE for those that perhaps are not elite athletes
- You will need to have enough space to respect the difference in ages.
- All of this exposes kids to great adult role models as well.
You have to have buses available to take these kids from the school to the community centers. When these centers are put in the crime hot spots of a city, the crime rate goes down over time, it is a fact. You have to get 15 years ahead of the curve, you have to reach out to kids way before they are adults and the mold is starting to set. Real permanent change will take time. Being a member of the Edmond/OKC community, you should be proud to know OKC has approved for these types of facilities in the OKC area as a result of MAPS, and they will be kickazz. I was at the city council meeting in which they were approved, perhaps the most important MAPS project to date.
Other non profits will coordinate with them and be able to better leverage their reach. For example, one NPO is going to bring in food trucks and teach kids how to cook and also feed them. Nutrition is a huge issue for some kids and some fail to get good meals at home.
If I won a huge ton of money on a lottery, that was one way I was going to give back, to build a multi-million dollar community center that would try to address the entire problem. To my great surprise OKC is taking this on and they will be putting them in crime hot spots.
Is this an easy fix? No it is not. But I do believe it requires the AA community to reach out to the general public in perhaps a different way then they have. They need to admit they have a serious problem and ask for help, I some times wonder is it just pride the keeps AA leaders in Chicago for example from speaking up and asking for help in solving the black on black crime and murder, you would think they would be on TV pounding their fists demanding help every single day, maybe they are fearful this means more police? Maybe they have given up and who could blame them? They have nothing to be ashamed of, raise awareness and provide a targeted solution. Many I believe want to help, OKC basically said let's do it, and perhaps that is what it will take in these larger cities.
These community centers would not be about more policing, it would be about basically providing the after hours environment that many kids do not get to experience at home and the after hours experience needed to raise a healthy well rounded adult.
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