Very true, its almost impossible to discern what is real and what is created by Ford or Arnold.
HBO's Westworld
- Thread starter tlwwake
- Start date
Very true, its almost impossible to discern what is real and what is created by Ford or Arnold.
Except the church was burned to the frame of the steeple when covered in sand. Did Ford rebuild it or the whole town?
Ford is robot or what ever the heck we are calling the host. He just does to many things similar to Maeve when she takes control of the other host. I also find it really odd that no one in the future would have a picture of Arnold one of the two people who created this whole thing. I just think it was dumb to have bernard look like Arnold and so far is my only gripe about the story line.
Ford has said him and Arnold lived alone in the park for three years creating the first host before Arnold died. By the time Ford created Bernard there was no one left who had actually meet or known Arnold. Ford simply introduced him as the new hire. That's part of the reason for the elaborate back story. This would also be more evidence that Logan is dead. Arnold is this mystery figure who is never discussed. My guess is his death and the circumstances surrounding it lead to a cover up where he was basically erased from the official park history.
As we've also seen Ford is quite adapt at arranging accidents for anyone who creates complications. If anyone made the connection between Arnold and Bernard Ford would have snuffed them out pretty quickly.
I don't think Delores killed Arnold. I think Ford did and planted it in Delores to cover his tracks. In the last episode you see Ford storming angrily into Bernard's office with Delores following afterward. I think she stumbles onto Ford killing Arnold and Ford pins it on her.
I am sure this is how they will play it but with all the advances in this futuristic world I am not buying it. Big mistake on their part unless Bernard was really Arnold all along.
I've been wondering if Ford isn't a bot as well. Arnold created Ford as his sidekick while he was designing the park, much as Ford created Bernard to be his sidekick years later.
I'm guessing rebuilt, he seemed to allude towards doing so when he ran into the kid robot version of himself out there. I need to rewatch that scene.
They've gone to pains to present a younger version of Ford in flashbacks, and hosts don't age.
Last nights most confusing moment: Why was Logan wearing "the hand of the king" pin from Game of Thrones?
If Ford is a bot. He was built by Arnold and Arnold is still alive and controlling the whole thing through Ford. That would be like level five of the Matrix.
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It is possible that young Ford died at some point and old Ford is a bot. Or that Ford is still alive and controlling things behind the scenes with the bot version being the one who interacts with everyone else. (like the Wizard of Oz)
Thanks for pointing that out. I did notice it subconsciously, but it didn't click until I read your post. Maybe just an Easter Egg by HBO for GOT fans.
Ford is a bot and we are all being Rick Rolled. Westworld is just the dream Jon Snow had while he was dead. BOOM
I saw an article the other day stating that Westworld and GOT where tied into each other. I was like ya not clicking on that rabbit hole. I have a hard enough time right keeping all the theories of GOT, Walking Dead, and Westworld straight now they want to start crossing the shows. Nope not gonna happen.
Weren't there three guys in the photo Ford showed Bernard? I've come to the point that just because someone says something or we see it in a flashback it doesn't mean it's real. It wouldn't shock me if Ford was the bot build originally by Arnold and like Maeve he not only became conscious he became very power thirsty and wanted to control things. It also wouldn't shock me if at the start of the next episode they have Patrick Duffy in a shower saying it was all a dream.
Yeah, at the time I thought it was poor writing and character development. Bernard seems really concerned about the hosts odd behavior, yet seemed to be encouraging her too gain consciousness. It didn't make sense, does now. I'm betting she was wearing the blue dress in those interviews with Arnold, naked with Bernard. Need to go back and watch some time.
Poor William. Chasing after the maze all this time and it was nothing more than a way for the early hosts to have secret meetings with Arnold.
So what do we see Sunday night? My best guess:
Will there be a big shocker? The death of Ford? Ford is a host? Arnold is alive? Delos is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Darma initiative?
- We get the answer to if and how Arnold died? My guess is Ford killed him and then came up with the cover story Delores did it.
- We find the fate of Logan and how William became the man in black
- Related to the above we still have a train full of Nitro headed somewhere. Does it blow up the original lobby at headquarters?
- In current time we have the Mauve storyline which I think partially carries over to next year
- Ford vs the Board
- The MIB. Is there more to the maze story then just the church? I have a hunch there is. I think it and the MIB are what merge the two storylines.
Will there be a big shocker? The death of Ford? Ford is a host? Arnold is alive? Delos is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Darma initiative?
Isn't that what William was looking for all along? That there is more to the "bots".
No one else ready to comment yet?
Fun ride. Not sure if I love it as much as I did while I was watching it.
I think it is pretty clear that they were walking a fine line with the story. They wanted to tie it up in such a way that it could stand alone (if it didn't get picked up for a 2nd season), yet leave enough open ended so that they had somewhere to go if it was picked up.
Now that we know there is going to be a second season, it will be very interesting to see where it goes. It could jump ahead 5 years, or it could pick up right where it left off. Will it expand into Samurai World, Roman World, etc? Will any of the same characters return? Will all of the characters return?
I'm guessing Hopkins was only willing to commit to 1 season. His character might be did, or he might have substituted a host and he is still alive.
William/TMIB also might have died or found a way to survive.
Anyone have any theories on what happened to Logan? Is he alive and behind the group that was trying to wrest control of the park from Ford?
They revealed that Maeve was getting help and not doing all that she did of her own accord. Was that Ford, or someone else?
I think it still seems strange that Felix helped Maeve so much. Especially when she and her 2 buddies started killing a bunch of humans. I guess he was in love with her? Maybe? Doesn't quite fit.
Fun ride. Not sure if I love it as much as I did while I was watching it.
I think it is pretty clear that they were walking a fine line with the story. They wanted to tie it up in such a way that it could stand alone (if it didn't get picked up for a 2nd season), yet leave enough open ended so that they had somewhere to go if it was picked up.
Now that we know there is going to be a second season, it will be very interesting to see where it goes. It could jump ahead 5 years, or it could pick up right where it left off. Will it expand into Samurai World, Roman World, etc? Will any of the same characters return? Will all of the characters return?
I'm guessing Hopkins was only willing to commit to 1 season. His character might be did, or he might have substituted a host and he is still alive.
William/TMIB also might have died or found a way to survive.
Anyone have any theories on what happened to Logan? Is he alive and behind the group that was trying to wrest control of the park from Ford?
They revealed that Maeve was getting help and not doing all that she did of her own accord. Was that Ford, or someone else?
I think it still seems strange that Felix helped Maeve so much. Especially when she and her 2 buddies started killing a bunch of humans. I guess he was in love with her? Maybe? Doesn't quite fit.
My Take without having read any reviews or anything.
Ford basically became Arnold up to and including destroying the park and recreating his suicide via Delores.
Ford had decided Arnold was right in his original vision and was reviving his experiments with the host giving the host conciseness throughout the season particularly with Delores.
In the end Ford decided to destroy the park just as Arnold had. Not sure if that was his plan from the beginning or he reach that decision because of his fight with the board.
The big difference was while Arnold had the host kill each other Ford turned them loose to kill the park management, board and finally himself.
They tried to interweave some deeper meaning into all this: The maze was really within, the creation painting and the brain not god discussion, the whole question of whether Meave was acting from freewill or it was all predestined by god/ford. In my opinion they didn't do a very good job of this.
Ford clearly had a god complex.
Logan has to be dead for the storyline to work. How else would William have gotten control of the family business (delos). He basically told Logan as much before staging his death to look like an accident.
I guess the Asian world scene was a foreshadowing for season two?
William / MIB probably died. Him and Ford were kind of unknowingly on the same page the whole time. He wanted the game upgraded to a real life or death risk. He smiled at the end when he realized what had happened.
Not sure where season two goes? They did leave whether TMIB lives or dies open and how the whole massacre comes out. Also Maeve headed back into the park instead of being loose in the real world. Plus you have Asian world. Do enough people survive to keep the park open? Do the host break out of the park? We shall see.
Ford basically became Arnold up to and including destroying the park and recreating his suicide via Delores.
Ford had decided Arnold was right in his original vision and was reviving his experiments with the host giving the host conciseness throughout the season particularly with Delores.
In the end Ford decided to destroy the park just as Arnold had. Not sure if that was his plan from the beginning or he reach that decision because of his fight with the board.
The big difference was while Arnold had the host kill each other Ford turned them loose to kill the park management, board and finally himself.
They tried to interweave some deeper meaning into all this: The maze was really within, the creation painting and the brain not god discussion, the whole question of whether Meave was acting from freewill or it was all predestined by god/ford. In my opinion they didn't do a very good job of this.
Ford clearly had a god complex.
Logan has to be dead for the storyline to work. How else would William have gotten control of the family business (delos). He basically told Logan as much before staging his death to look like an accident.
I guess the Asian world scene was a foreshadowing for season two?
William / MIB probably died. Him and Ford were kind of unknowingly on the same page the whole time. He wanted the game upgraded to a real life or death risk. He smiled at the end when he realized what had happened.
Not sure where season two goes? They did leave whether TMIB lives or dies open and how the whole massacre comes out. Also Maeve headed back into the park instead of being loose in the real world. Plus you have Asian world. Do enough people survive to keep the park open? Do the host break out of the park? We shall see.
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As a side note the QA guys were the biggest dipshits in the history of "security." I liked how they all just ran out directly into the open into the machine gun fire.
I didn't understand what happened to Logan. Was sending him off naked on the horse supposed to kill him?....was he just screwing with him? I really didn't get what they were showing there.
Why did Delores have to kill all of the hosts? Was that just intended to cause the park to shut down and therefore spare Delores a lifetime of misery of being murdered and raped?
They can really go anywhere with this story in the next season. I wouldn't be surprised to see a forward jump of at least a few years because they can basically reset everything if they do that. I really enjoyed it.
I didn't understand what happened to Logan. Was sending him off naked on the horse supposed to kill him?....was he just screwing with him? I really didn't get what they were showing there.
Why did Delores have to kill all of the hosts? Was that just intended to cause the park to shut down and therefore spare Delores a lifetime of misery of being murdered and raped?
They can really go anywhere with this story in the next season. I wouldn't be surprised to see a forward jump of at least a few years because they can basically reset everything if they do that. I really enjoyed it.
Yeah, her killing all the hosts was his attempt to shut down the park. I guess he didn't think Ford would rebuild all of them. When that didn't work he figured her killing him would be a big enough disaster to end it all. He saw them, especially her as his children, and thought they could be alive thus as you say, didnt want them raped and murdered over and over.
I didn't get the Logan part either, I thought it was to somehow set him up to look as if he lost his mind. William alluded to his dad will want someone more stable heading the company.
So who's the hero in season 2? TMIB is wounded and really too old to take them all on. Teddy? Does he gain consciousness and fight to save the humans? Does season 2 even take part in the park....why would it? Did all of the other hosts gain consciousness or are they just dumb bots reprogrammed to kill?
I think the allusion to Logan's father wanting someone more stable and less impulsive was to the fact that he was making it look like Logan had got killed in a accident while riding a horse naked probably drunk. Not sure how the fact his hands were tied was going to play into that. Maybe William went and untied the body after the "accident". Either way it was clearly his intent to kill Logan so he would gain control of the family fortune by marrying Logan's sister. It appears to have worked based on the later timeline. Logan obviously had a history of being a wild man and doing impulsive things so it probably wasn't that hard a sell.
I figured that was Ford, she shut down all of the facility security stuff didn't she? I figured he used her to take care of everything in the facility while he was in WW doing his thing. I'm guessing her whole awakening was helped along and planned by Ford. Seeing how close to the edge of life she was after losing her kid may have been the catalyst for everything.
Think Felix was a bit in love with her, and the hosts in general. He was very interested in them, tried to learn how to bring that bird back. May have had a grim view of human life given his coworkers and the fact that it sounded like they have their lives pre-planed out by others?
Don't forget that we have a lot of info showing that the park was on shaky financial footing until Delos (WIlliam) came along and bailed them out with a big investment. Arnold probably figured that destroying all of the hosts would be too much for Ford to overcome (financially). In addition, if word got out that a host (Dolores) killed a human (Arnold), that would be the demise of the park. Pretty good plan actually. Ford must have found enough money to keep things afloat and hid the truth about Arnold's death. That would also explain why Teddy and Dolores were not decommissioned. Ford simply didn't have the resources to just throw away 2 hosts that were in good physical condition.
My take on William/TMIB - William was thought by Logan to be some kind of "doormat" type personality who was wimpy and ultra-conservative in conduct as that is the way he had presented himself to the family and his bride to be. He discovers that William is really the opposite and is really ruthless and violent by nature (being in the park allowed him to reveal that side of himself.) Whether Logan is alive or dead, the narrative is firmly set in the family's mind, that Logan is a playboy while William is a stable, hard-working type who can be trusted with the family fortune while Logan would drink it away and endanger it by his impulsive and reckless behavior. Thus, William ends out.
At William's behest, the DELOS family comes to acquire controlling interest in the park and William takes numerous treks there trying to figure out the "back-story" (Maze). While doing this, after a while it all becomes boring to him as he realizes that he always wins, the hosts always lose.* He's interacted with a number of the hosts for that 35 yr time period, but none more interesting to him than Doloros and it hurt him much more than he allowed to express himself about it, when Doloros had no memory of him on his first return trip. Thus setting up his quest to discover more about the workings of the hosts and the potential for them having actually "consciousness" and perhaps to have things changed to more "real life" conditions where the hosts would at least have a chance of "winning" while the human guests would actually be betting with their lives/health.
*This reminded me of the classic Twilight Zone episode involving a low grade gangster who dies in a shoot out with police. He arrives in the afterlife and is met by an "angel" who shows him fancy new apartment, his harem of girlfriends, the casino where he can never lose, etc.... In the end, he comes to realize that because he can never be denied what he wants, he never fails, he never truly risks anything, his life is so boring and devoid of any kind of actual excitement he can't believe that this is heaven. That's when the "angel" informs him he's not in heaven, he's in the other place.
William is so bored out of his gourd, he's been trying to get Ford to actually make things more interesting by allowing the hosts to have a chance. That's why the big smile on his face at the end, his wish has come true. (Besides, what did he really have to live for at that point? His wife had died, his family disowned him, and he discovered that the "secret of the maze" really had no relevance to him whatsoever, but was only something the hosts understood.)
At William's behest, the DELOS family comes to acquire controlling interest in the park and William takes numerous treks there trying to figure out the "back-story" (Maze). While doing this, after a while it all becomes boring to him as he realizes that he always wins, the hosts always lose.* He's interacted with a number of the hosts for that 35 yr time period, but none more interesting to him than Doloros and it hurt him much more than he allowed to express himself about it, when Doloros had no memory of him on his first return trip. Thus setting up his quest to discover more about the workings of the hosts and the potential for them having actually "consciousness" and perhaps to have things changed to more "real life" conditions where the hosts would at least have a chance of "winning" while the human guests would actually be betting with their lives/health.
*This reminded me of the classic Twilight Zone episode involving a low grade gangster who dies in a shoot out with police. He arrives in the afterlife and is met by an "angel" who shows him fancy new apartment, his harem of girlfriends, the casino where he can never lose, etc.... In the end, he comes to realize that because he can never be denied what he wants, he never fails, he never truly risks anything, his life is so boring and devoid of any kind of actual excitement he can't believe that this is heaven. That's when the "angel" informs him he's not in heaven, he's in the other place.
William is so bored out of his gourd, he's been trying to get Ford to actually make things more interesting by allowing the hosts to have a chance. That's why the big smile on his face at the end, his wish has come true. (Besides, what did he really have to live for at that point? His wife had died, his family disowned him, and he discovered that the "secret of the maze" really had no relevance to him whatsoever, but was only something the hosts understood.)
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