Have aircraft carriers become obsolete?
- Thread starter SquatchinPoke
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You are totally and completely unhinged. Why in the flying **** should we destroy the entire world for a province of the USSR? Ukraine was never in our sphere of influence. It is in Russia's. And it will remain so. Unless we want to end the world.
Yes. Are you unaware that the Russian Army is now the most powerful in the world and it was folly to spend billions in an attempt at strategic degradation?
I will ask you kind of the same question I have asked you that you can't seem to answer....
Why do you think they have the best Army in the world? They sure are not fighting like they are
They are facing a 30 nation coalition and doing quite well. Is the Russian inevitable victory not happening fast enough for you?
Three things come to mind.
1) Ukraine had the biggest standing army in 2022 in all of Europe. More tanks than the UK, Germany and France combined. They now have 500k KIA. They have been systematically destroyed.
2) Russia has been very, very gentle since the war started. They see the war as one against brothers. Thus, Ukraine has had electricity, internet, water etc throughout. Russia could destroy all 3 in a day. They could have flattened every city like the US did in Iraq. They are a Christian people with just war principles and values.
3) Russia knows taking the offensive and taking ground means casualties. Because the Russians value their soldiers lives they are content to move slowly and exploit their 5 to 1 advantage in artillery. Every advance is calculated.
Here is the reality: Russia expends 10,000 shells per day. The Nazi's shoot back about 1/5 of that.
The situation is critical for Ukraine, especially since Russia is producing nearly three times more artillery munitions than the US and Europe combined. Russia’s monthly output is approximately 250,000 artillery munitions, while the collective capacity of the US and Europe is only about 1.2 million munitions annually1.
You could give the Bandera's one Trillion in aid. IT WOULD NOT MATTER.
They will lose. They were always going to lose.
Why do you want more to die?
The situation is critical for Ukraine, especially since Russia is producing nearly three times more artillery munitions than the US and Europe combined. Russia’s monthly output is approximately 250,000 artillery munitions, while the collective capacity of the US and Europe is only about 1.2 million munitions annually1.
You could give the Bandera's one Trillion in aid. IT WOULD NOT MATTER.
They will lose. They were always going to lose.
Why do you want more to die?
The latest official numbers for Ukraine are 31,000 KIA.......that's the official numbers
US Intelligence reports 315,000 Russian soldiers killed...Russian reports are 75,000
The Russian military is terrible, they had a huge advantage in all areas......they lost 600 troops because they were on cell phones and the Ukrainians detected them....that's the first thing you learn....no cell phones.......good armies don;t allow that to happen
Do you actually follow what is going on in Ukraine? Russian human wave attacks......their own soldiers are complaining how they are just being thrown out as cannon fodder........
NATO's doctrine if different than Russia's we train and fight different, we use a lot less artillery. But,....we rely more on air power where we have a huge advantage. We are increasing our production of artillery shells but we do not require the same number as they do....at their current rate of use, they will run out well before they accomplish their objectives even with there production increases and buying shells from the North Koreans ( which over half have been "duds")
The Russians are now using Thermobaric weapons.....don't talk about how "Christain" they are
A good Air Force would have achieved supremacy within weeks of start of the conflict ( as NATO will if we get involved)
A good Navy would not be losing ships left and right
The Russian people are good people, their Government is not, never has been..........
Please explain why you think their Air Force is so good
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Where to begin? Russian losses are somewhere between 100 to 300 k. I tend to think south of 100k. Ukranian losses are around 500k.
The Russians began the SMO with 140k troops. they now have 460k in theater and 500k in reserve.
I have read and always giggle about the "human wave attacks". They simply don't happen. The Wagner group used some of these tactics with prisoner parole soldiers but only in squads of 8 to 10. The Russians are good at war. They don't waste lives. Western journalists make this crap up.
Russia invested a TON in anti aircraft systems like the S-300, 400,500. We invested a ton in aircraft that don't work like the F-35. 70% of which are not combat ready at any on time. We do not have enough aircraft to get combat superiority in theater and would lose many quickly. Not near enough F-22's.
The Russians are old school and believe Artillery is the Queen of the battlefield and employ twice as many tubes per brigade as we do. We believe in maneuver and overestimate our tanks and underestimate the power of defensive fortified lines, which chewed up the Ukranian offensive.
It's not that I think their Air Force is so good. It doesn't need to be when their air defense is elite and numerous.
The biggest difference between you and I is that while you watch youtube videos and play video games, I have actual hands on experience and can honestly say you are very wrong..........
The S-300,400 and 500 are good air defense systems, and if full scale conflict breaks out, I am sure they will claim some kills.......but......we train each and every day on defeating these systems, the F-22 and F-35, and even the F-15E can operate very effectively in an environment like Ukraine. That is exactly what they were designed for. Not to mention the rest of NATO........WE can defeat these systems both electronically and just plain take them out.......I can't get into a lot of details, I would get a nice little rooms complement of the US government, but, we can handle those systems..........
News week just did an article about Russian troop numbers and whether you believe Newsweek or not, they say the Russians have zero reserves left, they are all already in theater or on critical postings around the country .........so I don't know......we have not given Ukraine any of our Frontline equipment, the two biggest are probably the HIMARs and the Storm shadows, but enven those are not the latest versions.
A few quick things about SAM systems.......any time their Radar is turned on, it makes them a very obvious and easy target, the longer it is on the more dangerous it becomes for the operators. No aircraft is 100% undetectable at all wavelengths, despite having the title "stealth aircraft", but the F-22 and F-35 are pretty good and we can steer enemy radar away from those frequencies they are more vulnerable at and cause those radar systems to remain transmitting much longer than they usually would be, making them an easy target for HARM and other anti-radiation weapons. The AI which is incorporated into the F-22 and F-35's ( and other NATO aircraft such as the Typhoon) acquisition and targeting systems can process, and act according to prescribed protocols thousands of times faster than humans can, making these SAM sites extremely vulnerable. With the Russians now out of operating A-50's their real time information about the battle space would also be very limited probably to the point where they would not be able to even operate their SAM system radars at all.
Literally everything you wrote in the last two posts is wrong. I don't play video games. I read. You should try it sometime.
Everything you were "told" by the US military is wrong. I used to believe everything you said. But unlike you, I verify what I am told.
The US trains to defeat soviet air defense systems. And no doubt each and every bit of the information has been shared with Ukraine. It is not Ukrainians manning those patriot systems. 3 of the 4 have been blown to bits. Those can't and won't be replaced. Wont be but a matter of days that no Patriot systems exist in Ukraine. Those glide bombs are now obliterating the Ukrainian front aren't they? That's Russian ingenuity at work. And it has now put to work the thousands of USSR dumb bombs in storage to devastating effect.
You forget, the enemy gets a vote. You train every day to defeat Russian systems? They have done the real thing, unlike your little theoretical games. They are defeating NATO systems every day across the board.
You were brainwashed that your equipment is the BEST and you can't be defeated. Which is what every military in every time believes since antiquity. It is the correct mindset to drill into your soldiers. You clearly are not a military historian. You haven't been paying attention to what is going on in the battlefield either.
Everything you were "told" by the US military is wrong. I used to believe everything you said. But unlike you, I verify what I am told.
The US trains to defeat soviet air defense systems. And no doubt each and every bit of the information has been shared with Ukraine. It is not Ukrainians manning those patriot systems. 3 of the 4 have been blown to bits. Those can't and won't be replaced. Wont be but a matter of days that no Patriot systems exist in Ukraine. Those glide bombs are now obliterating the Ukrainian front aren't they? That's Russian ingenuity at work. And it has now put to work the thousands of USSR dumb bombs in storage to devastating effect.
You forget, the enemy gets a vote. You train every day to defeat Russian systems? They have done the real thing, unlike your little theoretical games. They are defeating NATO systems every day across the board.
You were brainwashed that your equipment is the BEST and you can't be defeated. Which is what every military in every time believes since antiquity. It is the correct mindset to drill into your soldiers. You clearly are not a military historian. You haven't been paying attention to what is going on in the battlefield either.
They had 10 before the war began. They may or may not have had 3 shot down. The Ukrainians lie so much it's tough to tell. And the Russians never answer the lies.
We had to learn from the New York Times that no, the VDK Airborne and Spetsnaz have not been wiped out but have had less than5% casualties. And no the "Ghost of Kiev never existed.
Your biggest liability in assessing NATO versus Russia, is that we are a fake, on paper military in a deindustrialized west. War against a near peer has always been a theoretical exercise for the west instead of a real one.
NATO would be out of munitions within a few weeks. Russia can produce more and we can't. DO you know we have one, exactly one, factory producing shells in Pennsylvania? It would take years to ramp up to match Russian production, let alone the Chinese. The Chinese can put out 50 ships easily to our one. Even if we woke up now and spent Trillions, it would not make any difference. We don't have enough skilled labor to move our output that much. We are a decadent empire with worldwide obligations and haven't had enough children to maintain it
We need to do a managed retreat before we have a colossal and costly defeat.
NATO would be out of munitions within a few weeks. Russia can produce more and we can't. DO you know we have one, exactly one, factory producing shells in Pennsylvania? It would take years to ramp up to match Russian production, let alone the Chinese. The Chinese can put out 50 ships easily to our one. Even if we woke up now and spent Trillions, it would not make any difference. We don't have enough skilled labor to move our output that much. We are a decadent empire with worldwide obligations and haven't had enough children to maintain it
We need to do a managed retreat before we have a colossal and costly defeat.
You read books, you don't actually know how a lot of this stuff works.......there is so much stuff that can't be put into the public domain, enough to fill volumes......most of our most effective systems are highly classified, and it would blow your mind what we are actually able to do.......
The Russians had 10 A-50s..........3 deployed to Ukraine ( they have other taskings for these aircraft besides Ukraine)..........2 have been verified shot down and another was damaged on the ground........they run a 62% FMC rate which means only 6 are available to use at any one time.......which means you have 4 available for missions with 2 spares.........the 3 already assigned to the Ukraine operation are done.......
Russia is running out of Ammo also, they are buying millions of rounds from North Korea and most are duds and they use a lot more than NATO would........Ukraine just secured 1.5 million rounds of artillery shells yesterday...........
The Patriot systems Ukraine has are obsolete, and they are still downing Russian Hyper-sonic missiles.....at such a rate the Russians arrested the engineer who designed the missile and he hasn't been seen in weeks....the biggest disadvantage NATO would have would be that most likely NATO would not go to war to defeat Russia, but to keep Ukraine from being defeated
You have no idea how this done....between EW recon flights and ground sensors we have recorded every pulse from every Radar Russia has turned on .......
Yes China does have more ship building capacity than us.......we cannot keep them from taking Taiwan if they really want it ( without using Nuclear weapons) , but we can make it not worth their wild to try it.........Taiwan has an outstanding military, they just don't have the sheer numbers........but....in an all ut war, we could defeat China...whatever defeat would look like with two superpowers....really no one wins
We gave Ukraine glide bombs also, the Army decided not to use the 250 pound bomb, Boeing had thousands in storage....so Boeing and Saab turned them into SDGBs, they are shipping thousands to Ukraine.......same things the Russians did
The Russians had 10 A-50s..........3 deployed to Ukraine ( they have other taskings for these aircraft besides Ukraine)..........2 have been verified shot down and another was damaged on the ground........they run a 62% FMC rate which means only 6 are available to use at any one time.......which means you have 4 available for missions with 2 spares.........the 3 already assigned to the Ukraine operation are done.......
Russia is running out of Ammo also, they are buying millions of rounds from North Korea and most are duds and they use a lot more than NATO would........Ukraine just secured 1.5 million rounds of artillery shells yesterday...........
The Patriot systems Ukraine has are obsolete, and they are still downing Russian Hyper-sonic missiles.....at such a rate the Russians arrested the engineer who designed the missile and he hasn't been seen in weeks....the biggest disadvantage NATO would have would be that most likely NATO would not go to war to defeat Russia, but to keep Ukraine from being defeated
You have no idea how this done....between EW recon flights and ground sensors we have recorded every pulse from every Radar Russia has turned on .......
Yes China does have more ship building capacity than us.......we cannot keep them from taking Taiwan if they really want it ( without using Nuclear weapons) , but we can make it not worth their wild to try it.........Taiwan has an outstanding military, they just don't have the sheer numbers........but....in an all ut war, we could defeat China...whatever defeat would look like with two superpowers....really no one wins
We gave Ukraine glide bombs also, the Army decided not to use the 250 pound bomb, Boeing had thousands in storage....so Boeing and Saab turned them into SDGBs, they are shipping thousands to Ukraine.......same things the Russians did
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If the Ukrainians are such good allies of ours why aren't we letting them utilize all these super-duper-top secret weapons to go ahead and put Russia in its place?
WE would never give them our Front line equipment.........if the GOP would do the right thing, Ukraine would be able to do what they need to do........they are giving Russian all they want with old equipment
Well that's just stupid! Why on earth wouldn't we use our front line weaponry agaist our mortal enemy? Do we want to beat them or not? I know next to nothing about the weapons you and Caesar are talking about, but I know enough to know there is no way Ukraine can defeat Russia. You're throwing a life line, talking about our super-duper-top secret weapons that could beat Russia in a heartbeat, but God forbid we let our ally have access to them!
The "big guy" says "cmon man!" After defibrillation to wake him.
The only people using our front line equipment will be us......
Ukraine doesn't' have to defeat Russia,they have to make it hard enough on them that they go to the negotiating table,if Russia feels they are being defeated as a country , they will use Nuclear / Chemical weapons which is not what anyone wants
So let me get this straight. We have weapons that could end the proxy war in a matter of minutes. But we can't use them because it wouldn't end the proxy war, it would take it nuclear. So the correct thing to do is string the war along and let Ukrainians and Russians kill each other until one of them runs out of people to be killed. But if it's Russia they'll take things nuclear. On another thread I said *Catch 22* is the greatest WW2 movie of all time, and *Dr. Strangelove* is the best "war movie" of all time. They're supposed to be satire, but what you're saying is they are a reflection of reality. God help us all!
The only weapons that would end the war in minutes are Nuclear weapons and we are obviously not going to use them
BTW....both great movies
BTW....both great movies
These super duper weapons do not exist. These exist in COWBOYintheUK's imagination. He is like: trust me bro! like a lot of online charlatan's.
The USA has a slight qualitative advantage in aircraft, but is at a deep deficit in anti-aircraft/anti-missile systems. That is why Turkey bought the S-500 over the Patriot even though it cost them the F-35.
The USA and Nato in general lack munitions and in a battle with Russia would run out in a matter of weeks. That's the reality. We are a late stage republic with too many international obligations and it is time to unwind the empire. No one wants to hear that but unless we want to suffer a massive defeat and hundreds of thousands of casualties it's time to return to fortress America.
The USA has a slight qualitative advantage in aircraft, but is at a deep deficit in anti-aircraft/anti-missile systems. That is why Turkey bought the S-500 over the Patriot even though it cost them the F-35.
The USA and Nato in general lack munitions and in a battle with Russia would run out in a matter of weeks. That's the reality. We are a late stage republic with too many international obligations and it is time to unwind the empire. No one wants to hear that but unless we want to suffer a massive defeat and hundreds of thousands of casualties it's time to return to fortress America.
UK has not been misrepresenting anything. I can confirm based on what he wrote he knows what he is talking about. This from real world experience in air combat zones.
I may disagree with him on other matters but he hasn't been blowing smoke up your ars. You have made some valid points but UK has given you nothing but facts. I believe him when he represents himself as an intelligence operator. He hasn't lied to you once. He also is leaving a lot out on purpose.
My biggest question mark is why hasn't Russia been able secure air dominance? I had thought they would have achieved this a long time ago. If they where to achieve that it would game over no matter how much we send, yet it remains elusive. The way you will know is when Russia starts to use its bear bombers in mass.
Two questions:
1) What’s the point in having these super duper game changing top secret weapons of war if you can’t use them because they are such an existential threat to Russia Russia would feel the need to go nuclear, and then it’s lights out for all of us?
2) If we have super duper game changing top secret weapons of war what makes you think Russia doesn’t have them, too?
Brother in law was/is involved in the deployment of the Patriot Missile System to Ukraine. While he can't tell me much of anything he did say the system we sent to Ukraine compared to what the system is actually capable of is the equivalent of taking a knife to a gunfight.
You know full well, stop with the obtuse bullshit in every thread.
1) Well you are not completely off the mark on that statement. If Ukraine were to get our best stuff and have the training on it (key point) they would be in Moscow by now. If you start moving on Russia's capital they will use nukes as they will have nothing left to lose. Say goodnight. The other reason is because we don't want Russia knowing what our best weaponry is, because they do like to try and counter what we are doing. We didn't even use the F-22 as an interceptor for almost a decade after they reached operational capacity because we didn't want to give away any secrets. It was most likely the reason Russia was penetrating our airspace so much at the time, because they wanted a look.
2)They do, and so does China, and we most likely don't know about all of them. However, see above and reverse it.
The more you guys write about this stuff the more I realize Catch 22 was not a satire but a real life explanation of global competition. Catch 22: You can't quit flying missions unless you're declared to be crazy. It is crazy to fly the missions. But as soon as you say the truth, that it is crazy to fly the missions, you prove that you are not crazy, therefore you have to continue to fly the missions. Today's world: We must constantly update the capability and precision of our weapons of war to insure we would win if there is a war. And bringing about peace is the reason for constantly updating the weapons. But we can't use any of the updated weapons because it would result in nuclear armageddon. What's so weird is most people see the "logic" involved as if it is exactly how things ought to be.
It is not a slight qualitative advantage in aircraft, when you are talking about the F-22 and F-35 its a pretty significant advantage......an F-22 will have a kill ratio of around 20 to 1 over anything the Russians can put into the air.....the F-35 is not quite that high because it is not solely dedicated to air to air combat......Now, we only have 187 combat F-22s, and would not deploy a huge amount at any one time, we would still rely heavily on the F-15Cs and F-16s along with Typhoons and of NATO countries domestic aircraft.........but, they are still superior to Russian aircraft for the most part and training is better.
Now, don;t get me wrong, any war between NATO and Russia would be terrible for both sides, and it would depend on what the objective was.....if Russia invaded a NATO country, that would be much different than NATO sending troops into Ukraine........the big problem is....if either side starts to lose, the chances of it turning Nuclear would increase significantly
The Russians have good SAM systems, but we invest heavily in SEAD much more than the Russians do.....and we are really good at it........We have different tactics than the Russians, and it works well for us, and they are designed to specifically fight a Russian style military
I have been asking Caesar that very question.......how come Russia hasn't gained air supremacy, they have a huge numerical advantage and a huge qualitative advantage in aircraft.......at least until the F-16s get in theater, then the qualitative advantage will shift somewhat
Read an article the other day about the Bradley's being the MVP of the Ukrainian army in the war. They were making things miserable for the Russians and their tanks.
Not mentioned so far in a larger war are:
Autonomous drone swarms
MAARS
railguns
Energy beams
Lasers
All the other secret stuff we are sitting on.
The first 2 are really cheap and puts zero troops onto the battlefield.
Not mentioned so far in a larger war are:
Autonomous drone swarms
MAARS
railguns
Energy beams
Lasers
All the other secret stuff we are sitting on.
The first 2 are really cheap and puts zero troops onto the battlefield.
This is of course silly. I almost don't wasn't to even answer. The F-22 will shoot at anything it sees BVR and it will get some kills. As it moves closer in theater it will face a hornets nest of AA systems and will have to retire. It is an air dominance platform and will have no say in anything that goes on in the battlefield.
BTW, an SU-57 will win in a dogfight. The F-22 shots from 40 miles away can be defended. I'd say a kill ratio with an F-22 against an SU-57 would be 60-40. But that depends on the pilot. The Russians are CHAD military. Every single year, the US become more of a ******, DEI, Trans military. Which is why Caucasians, the backbone of our military for 300 years are no longer signing up. NO WAY I allow my son to sign up to fight Chad's in a fag, diverse military.
Based on what? All NATO systems and tactics are failing.
Because Ukraine has a TON of old S-300 systems. The very same systems NATO says are too old are actually very deadly. That was augmented by 4 Patriot sytems. The Russians have taken out 3 of them. Which won't be replaced.
Now the Russians are killing everything in sight with glide bombs which can shoot from far away. In response the Ukies are moving up their AA, and the Russians are taking those out too. Complete Air supremacy has now defacto been achieved. Now the Russians are waiting for dry ground for a summer offensive. The good guys will win.
Prediction: Once the F-16's are in theater, if they are ever do. Several will be shot down in week one. Just like with the Abrams, they will go into hiding.
What one has to understand is the leadership of Ukraine is not looking to win. They are looking to survive and grow rich. The most corrupt government in the world will keep this going as long as possible. It is the United States that will decide when this war ends. Maybe the next president will decide the money laundering should stop and the bloodbath of Ukrainians should end.
What one has to understand is the leadership of Ukraine is not looking to win. They are looking to survive and grow rich. The most corrupt government in the world will keep this going as long as possible. It is the United States that will decide when this war ends. Maybe the next president will decide the money laundering should stop and the bloodbath of Ukrainians should end.
Our daily dose of Pravda fantasy delivered to the politics board.
You know anyone that parrots 100% of either side's propaganda is just doing schtick to entertain themselves on this board, but brt does it very convincingly. Almost with his same fervor of attacking Protestants like a 16th century Jesuit.
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