GOT 3

[JonnyVito]

Arya was in the castle. She was being chased by wights from the original army that assaulted the castle. The crypts are deep in the frozen earth with no adjacent rooms/tunnels and only one entrance at the top of a flight of stairs. The only way for those wights to break through the walls would be if they were interred Stark corpses.

I have read a bunch of stuff on source quoting source materials by GRRM that might not make that statement true. Now in the show there is only one way in and I think those were dead Starks for sure. In other sources in the books the crypts of Winterfell on a very mysterious place and full of surprises.

 

[PDT816]

Pretty sure Arya was in the Masters chambers moving amongst the scroll shelves. Same room where Dani told Sam she executed his dad and brother

 

[FMPoke]

Arya was in the castle. She was being chased by wights from the original army that assaulted the castle. The crypts are deep in the frozen earth with no adjacent rooms/tunnels and only one entrance at the top of a flight of stairs. The only way for those wights to break through the walls would be if they were interred Stark corpses.

I'm going to need to watch this a second time. I clearly missed a lot of details. I took it that was the Starks rising from the dead at that point.

 

[The Duke]

Not really. (at least not in my opinion). Dragon fire turns the bodies to ash. Otherwise, they would just turn into burning walking zombies. That is why he had to hold back his dragon. The other 2 dragons were the great equalizer, and his dragon was the only thing keeping them from focusing entirely on the wight army.

Just like Jon told Stannis after defeating the wildlings north of the wall - "burn the bodies before nightfall"

 

[The Duke]

So, let's talk about the strategy of leading the Dothraki on a suicide mission far from any reinforcements. Not too smart. I thought maybe their mission was to engage the enemy and draw them back into battle with the Unsullied, etc. But, it seemed like they engaged too far away from the main force and lost way too many men/horses.

Would have made more sense to wait for the enemy to advance and send the cavalry in from the flanks while the Unsullied was engaged in the center. JMO.

With that said, the flaming swords going out one-by-one was a really cool moment.

This was nothing more than i) wanting to send a message of doom and gloom to the viewer, and ii) and easy way for HBO to cut expensive CGI/horse combat footage $$$ (just like HBO nearly ignoring direwolves since season 1)....

 

[Been Jammin]

I'm going to need to watch this a second time. I clearly missed a lot of details. I took it that was the Starks rising from the dead at that point.

It was.

 

[PDT816]

I'm going to need to watch this a second time. I clearly missed a lot of details. I took it that was the Starks rising from the dead at that point.

They shot it like a horror movie for some reason. Plus the entire thing was so dark it was really hard to follow

 

[Been Jammin]

This was nothing more than i) wanting to send a message of doom and gloom to the viewer, and ii) and easy way for HBO to cut expensive CGI/horse combat footage $$$ (just like HBO nearly ignoring direwolves since season 1)....

Oh, I know. Just really bad strategy. Easy fixes that would make more sense.

1). Throwaway line by someone that the Dothraki do their best fighting on horses but they don't have many left because so many have succumbed to the cold (they were bred for grassy plains not snow/cold) or they haven't had food for them and have been using them for horsemeat to feed the masses.

2). Have a few of them go out with fiery araks to scout the enemy or draw them into a charge into the heart of the defense. Have the rest planning to fight as cavalry along the front lines but get quickly decimated by Ice Dragon.

 

[Been Jammin]

They shot it like a horror movie for some reason. Plus the entire thing was so dark it was really hard to follow

I read an interview with the directors. Apparently, in the Battle of Helms Deep (LOTR) there was a lot of post movie criticism along the lines of "Where is the light coming from?". They decided to not duplicate that effect and make it darker, smokier, foggier, so it would be more akin to what it would be like to actually fight in such a battle. It also saved them money on CGI, makeup, etc.

IMO, it would have been better (albeit more expensive) had they simply lit fires all around the castle (inside and out) with plans to drive the wights into the fires and use them to light spears/arrows to use against the wights. Poof! Well lit battle scenes.

 

[SouthWestOKPoke]

I think you may be a bit right and a bit wrong with your points.

Martin has said that there is no Night King in his story, so I don't see the books going in the same direction.

However, I think there is plenty of evidence, already, that The Others are more than just a virus spreading across the continent. IMO, they are more of a hive mind species. They are capable of intelligent thought and implementing strategy, but don't have a designated leader. They clearly showed evidence of this when confronting Sir Waymar Royce in the prologue of GOT, and likely at the Fist of the First Men.

There is a fan theory that Waymar Royce physically resembled Jon Snow and was of about the right age, and that they were looking for Snow when they encountered Royce. They want to take Snow captive for some reason, and killed Royce when they determined that he did not have Stark blood. The evidence for this in that he first faced off against 1 of them, then 5 more appeared and surrounded him. They communicated with each other before one of them killed him. Mindless parasitic killers would have just swarmed him and killed him without any delay/communication.

BTW when I said they are like a bacteria/force of nature I didn't mean to say they are mindless just they don't have ulterior motives. Martin has hinted at their endgame in The World of Ice and Fire and its a lifeless endless winter.

 

[PDT816]

Martin has hinted at their endgame in The World of Ice and Fire and its a lifeless endless winter.

That's pretty much word for word what Bran said the Night Kings agenda was.

 

[Been Jammin]

BTW when I said they are like a bacteria/force of nature I didn't mean to say they are mindless just they don't have ulterior motives. Martin has hinted at their endgame in The World of Ice and Fire and its a lifeless endless winter.

OK. But, define "ulterior motives". If they are not mindless, and have a goal that they want to reach, then their must be steps along the way to reaching that goal. For example, here are some that I have seen theorized or made up myself.

-Capture Benjen Stark. Use his Stark blood for some kind of blood magic to help them breech the wall.
-Kill/capture Jon Snow because he is special due to his Stark (Ice) and Targ (Fire) parentage.
-Find the Horn of Jarumon, blow it to destroy the wall
-Kill the 3 eyed Raven

Clearly there are barriers/forces in place to prevent them from achieving lifeless/endless winter. They need to find ways to overcome those hurdles, and it will require strategy and intelligence, some of which will look a lot like "ulterior motives".

 

[The Duke]

That's pretty much word for word what Bran said the Night Kings agenda was.

I always thought the NK wanted a beach holiday in Dorne, just was bringing along a few friends.

 

[SouthWestOKPoke]

OK. But, define "ulterior motives". If they are not mindless, and have a goal that they want to reach, then their must be steps along the way to reaching that goal. For example, here are some that I have seen theorized or made up myself.

-Capture Benjen Stark. Use his Stark blood for some kind of blood magic to help them breech the wall.
-Kill/capture Jon Snow because he is special due to his Stark (Ice) and Targ (Fire) parentage.
-Find the Horn of Jarumon, blow it to destroy the wall
-Kill the 3 eyed Raven

Clearly there are barriers/forces in place to prevent them from achieving lifeless/endless winter. They need to find ways to overcome those hurdles, and it will require strategy and intelligence, some of which will look a lot like "ulterior motives".

No thats all working towards the same goal with the same overall motivation, it all works towards the end of everything. Ulterior motive is like this theory:

"Then I think the night king “bran” is trying to kill his younger self before he travels back in time. The COTF would still create the night king but it would only be a man not a greenseer. This explains why the white walkers are attacking now, they needed to wait for bran to be born. It makes the NK kind of a good guy and gives us the bitter sweet ending with brans death."

 

[Been Jammin]

No thats all working towards the same goal with the same overall motivation, it all works towards the end of everything. Ulterior motive is like this theory:

"Then I think the night king “bran” is trying to kill his younger self before he travels back in time. The COTF would still create the night king but it would only be a man not a greenseer. This explains why the white walkers are attacking now, they needed to wait for bran to be born. It makes the NK kind of a good guy and gives us the bitter sweet ending with brans death."

Ah. I agree with you.
Hate the time travel theories.

 

[SouthWestOKPoke]

Ah. I agree with you.
Hate the time travel theories.

Me too the same with the Others are really the good guys theories.

 

[JonnyVito]

Something that hit me today. So when Dany came she had a foreign army. They advised her not to attack Kong’s Landing with it because it would send everyone to Cersei’s side in Westeros. So now that Dany fought with Jon against the NK she really has no foreign army and is left with the North and those that follow her and Jon. While now Cersei has mainly a foreign army that she will use to defend Kings Landing. So does this mean it pushes more houses in favor of Dany since she defended Westeros from the long night?

 

[100TonsofOrangeFury]

Something that hit me today. So when Dany came she had a foreign army. They advised her not to attack Kong’s Landing with it because it would send everyone to Cersei’s side in Westeros. So now that Dany fought with Jon against the NK she really has no foreign army and is left with the North and those that follow her and Jon. While now Cersei has mainly a foreign army that she will use to defend Kings Landing. So does this mean it pushes more houses in favor of Dany since she defended Westeros from the long night?

That all makes perfect sense to me.

 

[Ostatedchi]

Something that hit me today. So when Dany came she had a foreign army. They advised her not to attack Kong’s Landing with it because it would send everyone to Cersei’s side in Westeros. So now that Dany fought with Jon against the NK she really has no foreign army and is left with the North and those that follow her and Jon. While now Cersei has mainly a foreign army that she will use to defend Kings Landing. So does this mean it pushes more houses in favor of Dany since she defended Westeros from the long night?

Damn it Vito, you aren't supposed to make sensible posts. I can only assume you read that somewhere.

 

[JonnyVito]

Damn it Vito, you aren't supposed to make sensible posts. I can only assume you read that somewhere.

I am sure it’s out there but it honestly came to me while cleaning up the kitchen this evening

 

[SquinkY5786]

Where’s Kong’s landing?

 

[JonnyVito]

Where’s Kong’s landing?

Stupid autocorrect but hey luckily it wasn’t Dong’s landing

 

[Been Jammin]

IMO, the issue with Dani’s army is that they were Dothraki savages. Not sure that the Gold Company carries the same stigma. Mercenaries are commonplace in Westeros, and many members of the Gold Co are Westerosi.

 

[SquinkY5786]

Stupid autocorrect but hey luckily it wasn’t Dong’s landing

Pretty sure dani would be all over Dongs landing

 

[JonnyVito]

IMO, the issue with Dani’s army is that they were Dothraki savages. Not sure that the Gold Company carries the same stigma. Mercenaries are commonplace in Westeros, and many members of the Gold Co are Westerosi.

What about the unsullied then they are mercenaries just Golden company. She could of took KL with them and the dragon

 

[MajorMike_Ret]

Where’s Kong’s landing?

 

[Renegade Bullet]

Word to the wise, do NOT google “Dong’s Landing”

 

[MajorMike_Ret]

Here, you can watch Dong's landing

 

[JonnyVito]

Lol

 

[Cowpoke]

The books have aways done it, now HBO has a well with last night's episode.....

A huge part of the appeal of the books and shows is theorizing with other fans regarding upcoming prophecies/plot lines. It's a disservice to everyone who becomes invested over the years in the story to just pull the rug out of plots that were hinted as major world-shifting events.

Arya becoming Azor Ahia last night was about as underwhelming as it gets considering all the plot points they've injected into the show over the years.

I dont think she is Azor. She fits non of the legend at all. I don't think the legend says anything about Azor killing the NK (especially since he doesnt exist in the books?) . It can still be Jon/Danni, they helped end the threat. The show may not even resolve it since its barely been mentioned in it.

 

[Cowpoke]

Just finished watching it, you know how hard its been to not stumble upon GOT/Avenger spoilers for 3 days? IMO the baddest (as in kick ass) part of the show was the NK and his entourage walking into the God's Woods. I do wish we had seen Aria attack him as a wright instead of somehow slipping by a hundred wrights and others. The wounded ice dragon breathing its blue fire out its neck while attacking Jon was pretty bad ass too. Technically....arent Sansa and Tyrion still married? Those gonna be some weird babies.

 

[FMPoke]

Just finished watching it, you know how hard its been to not stumble upon GOT/Avenger spoilers for 3 days? IMO the baddest (as in kick ass) part of the show was the NK and his entourage walking into the God's Woods. I do wish we had seen Aria attack him as a wright instead of somehow slipping by a hundred wrights and others. The wounded ice dragon breathing its blue fire out its neck while attacking Jon was pretty bad ass too. Technically....arent Sansa and Tyrion still married? Those gonna be some weird babies.

I believe their marriage was annulled before she married Ramsey Bolton.

 

[FMPoke]

Just finished watching it a second time. Confirmed a lot of stuff in this thread I missed the first time. Biggest thing that stood out on second viewing was how little dialogue there was in the whole show.

 

[Cowpoke]

I believe their marriage was annulled before she married Ramsey Bolton.

Probably true, Daddy Bolton wouldn't have overlooked that detail.

 

[PDT816]

I dont think she is Azor. She fits non of the legend at all. I don't think the legend says anything about Azor killing the NK (especially since he doesnt exist in the books?) . It can still be Jon/Danni, they helped end the threat. The show may not even resolve it since its barely been mentioned in it.

The show mentions it all the time. It's Mel's entire reason for being on the show. There were multiple seasons of Mel shaping Stannis to be Azor, then she flipped to Jon, and Dani last season. Sunday, we have Mel annoiting Arya who finally does the deed.

After numerous showdowns during the history of the show between Jon and the Night King, it feels like the show took the way out.

 

[Been Jammin]

The show mentions it all the time. It's Mel's entire reason for being on the show. There were multiple seasons of Mel shaping Stannis to be Azor, then she flipped to Jon, and Dani last season. Sunday, we have Mel annoiting Arya who finally does the deed.

After numerous showdowns during the history of the show between Jon and the Night King, it feels like the show took the way out.

Weiss and Benioff actually said (after the show) that they went with Arya because the viewers were all expecting Jon. They said that they decided this 3 years ago. Pretty strange, IMO.

They seem to have no understanding of plot/narrative/story telling. They are all about, "you know...it would be really cool if X,Y,Z. Yeah, let's go with that".

 

[PDT816]

Weiss and Benioff actually said (after the show) that they went with Arya because the viewers were all expecting Jon. They said that they decided this 3 years ago. Pretty strange, IMO.

They seem to have no understanding of plot/narrative/story telling. They are all about, "you know...it would be really cool if X,Y,Z. Yeah, let's go with that".

They seem oblivious that we were all expecting Jon because they have been foreshadowing the future conflict for yeaes

 

[JonnyVito]

Just finished watching it, you know how hard its been to not stumble upon GOT/Avenger spoilers for 3 days? IMO the baddest (as in kick ass) part of the show was the NK and his entourage walking into the God's Woods. I do wish we had seen Aria attack him as a wright instead of somehow slipping by a hundred wrights and others. The wounded ice dragon breathing its blue fire out its neck while attacking Jon was pretty bad ass too. Technically....arent Sansa and Tyrion still married? Those gonna be some weird babies.

The hardest part of not seeing spoilers is just reading the news. I don’t know how many head lines I have seen with spoilers for both. I hope to see End Game soon but the media has almost ruined it for me. Oh and @TheRedSon with his spoilers in a Captain Marvel thread.

 

[Cowpoke]

The hardest part of not seeing spoilers is just reading the news. I don’t know how many head lines I have seen with spoilers for both. I hope to see End Game soon but the media has almost ruined it for me. Oh and @TheRedSon with his spoilers in a Captain Marvel thread.

Seriously, my only 2 spoilers were from my news feed.

I saw half of "How Arya saved...."

and "Knight King, We Hardly Knew Ya".

So I knew the NK was gonna die, but I figured that was going to happen anyway. Learning Arya was probably going to save the day ticked me off.

 

[100TonsofOrangeFury]

Seriously, my only 2 spoilers were from my news feed.

I saw half of "How Arya saved...."

and "Knight King, We Hardly Knew Ya".

So I knew the NK was gonna die, but I figured that was going to happen anyway. Learning Arya was probably going to save the day ticked me off.

Could hardly think of a less likely task than trying to avoid GOT spoilers after episode 3.