Anwan family IT scandal.

[JimmyBob]

What my drunk ass sees

You really piss me off being drunk this early since the neighbor and I didn't start on the "Three Buck Chuck" until four. Hell, neither of my brothers Darrell have shown up and you're winning the race as to who will speak fluent Mandarin before midnight (aside, I do have the LP for speaking Mandarin). Carry on!!!!

 

[GunsOfFrankEaton]

Let me preface by saying I'm drinking today. So if I make absolutely no sense here I apologize. I also want to point out I believe JD to take great pleasure in taking a contrarian stance regardless of actual belief and I'm not assigning a team. That said, I also believe he works hard to apply critical thought to every situation.

However, I believe this is where we see a lose lose situation and a difference in media bias.

Hillary Clinton had a private server, deleted over 30,000 emails, and destroyed previously used equipment. According to team blue this is a "right-wing" pizzagate worthy conspiracy. Nothing to see here folks. Team Red is screaming suspicious activity and calling for a full investigation.

Whether a real investigation occurred also depends on team perspective.

Don Jr had something that was about to come to light. So he preemptively releases the emails for all to see. Is this a move of transperancy? Nope, it's suspicious. Team Red calls it a witch hunt because he displayed transparency and team blue feels there's more to be suspicious of here than Hillary's situation.

What my drunk ass sees coming to light is a situation that's lose lose regardless of how you handle it. However, how it's reported is the significant difference in my biased Democrat hating opinion. Yes, I dislike Republicans but I fvckin hate neocons and Democrats.

Since the media is mostly a team blue cheerleading sycophant one has received far more media attention and desire to expose than the other.

/drunk post


Out

You should post drunk more often.

 

[NZ Poke]

 

[ThorOdinson13]

You should post drunk more often.

Damn you!!! Don't encourage it. A few I talk to offline here will substantiate that I feel I communicate much better under the influence and almost feel it's a requirement to engage in worthy debate.

You really piss me off being drunk this early since the neighbor and I didn't start on the "Three Buck Chuck" until four. Hell, neither of my brothers Darrell have shown up and you're winning the race as to who will speak fluent Mandarin before midnight (aside, I do have the LP for speaking Mandarin). Carry on!!!!

I started around 11:15 when we arrived at the restaraunt, after church

@CowboyJD

Regarding releasing emails preemptively when you know it's coming to light. (Sorry, you posted within my quote). You don't release something for the hell of it if you don't believe anything you did was wrong. He found out a hit piece (from his perspective) was coming so he decided to be transparent and was forced to act preemptively. Had he released them for no reason at all it would have been weird.

Let's compare his release to the Reince Priebus answer to Wolf Blitzer regarding his leaking. "I'm not going to discuss this." That's suspicious. When does the human psyche decide not to exonerate itself when given the opportunity if innocent?

Did you kill so and so on this date? Who told you that? I'm not going to address that, ridiculous.

Did you kill so and so on this date? Hell no! I was at that place doing this on that date?

 

[ThorOdinson13]

 

[Medic007]

View embedded media

That is damn funny.

 

[CowboyJD]

Damn you!!! Don't encourage it. A few I talk to offline here will substantiate that I feel I communicate much better under the influence and almost feel it's a requirement to engage in worthy debate.



I started around 11:15 when we arrived at the restaraunt, after church

@CowboyJD

Regarding releasing emails preemptively when you know it's coming to light. (Sorry, you posted within my quote). You don't release something for the hell of it if you don't believe anything you did was wrong. He found out a hit piece (from his perspective) was coming so he decided to be transparent and was forced to act preemptively. Had he released them for no reason at all it would have been weird.

Let's compare his release to the Reince Priebus answer to Wolf Blitzer regarding his leaking. "I'm not going to discuss this." That's suspicious. When does the human psyche decide not to exonerate itself when given the opportunity if innocent?

Did you kill so and so on this date? Who told you that? I'm not going to address that, ridiculous.

Did you kill so and so on this date? Hell no! I was at that place doing this on that date?

Transparency = not hiding anything to start with. Having systems in place that are open and transparent about how you do business.

Transparency isn't disclosing things you're trying to hide slightly before someone else knowing that they are going to be disclosed.

Have you read the emails? I just don't get how you think they exonerate him of anything if you have. It's the content of the emails itself that is suspicious.

As far as your "did you kill so and so scenario..." I don't think it is particularly relevant.

The emails were going to be disclosed with or without him doing so. He disclosed them himself so he could get out in front with a narrative of his own. Why? Because he knows the content of the emails themselves are highly suspicious and he needs to try to explain it away.

 

[shortbus]

"People advocating continued/new investigations of Hillary, Wasserstein, Seth Rich in connection with the DNC leaks have less to base their suspicions on than what I find suspicious about Trump/Russia (IMO)....yet in one situation they want investigations started and one theyadvocated that it's all manufactured nonsense that never justified an investigation."

@CowboyJD you can't seriously mean that.

 

[CowboyJD]

"People advocating continued/new investigations of Hillary, Wasserstein, Seth Rich in connection with the DNC leaks have less to base their suspicions on than what I find suspicious about Trump/Russia (IMO)....yet in one situation they want investigations started and one theyadvocated that it's all manufactured nonsense that never justified an investigation."

@CowboyJD you can't seriously mean that.

I absolutely do.

Manafort
Page
Flynn
Jr email
Statements from Jr and the other Trump about Russia being a major source of funding of Trump, Inc.
Lies/false justifications for firing Comey
Sessions recusing
Rosenstein (Trump appointee) appointing Mueller

What you got on Seth Rich? Enlighten me. I've see the best that NZ has tried to provide on it....basically a lot of memes.

Here's the real deal though...I'm all for investigation of Trump re:Russia

I'm also for a full Wasserstein and/or Hillary investigation.

Can you say the same?

Or is it only one group you are interested in?

 

[ThorOdinson13]

Transparency = not hiding anything to start with. Having systems in place that are open and transparent about how you do business.

Transparency isn't disclosing things you're trying to hide slightly before someone else knowing that they are going to be disclosed.

Have you read the emails? I just don't get how you think they exonerate him of anything if you have. It's the content of the emails itself that is suspicious.

As far as your "did you kill so and so scenario..." I don't think it is particularly relevant.

The emails were going to be disclosed with or without him doing so. He disclosed them himself so he could get out in front with a narrative of his own. Why? Because he knows the content of the emails themselves are highly suspicious and he needs to try to explain it away.

Because what politician wouldn't meet someone to get dirt on an opponent?

I mean the DNC was involved with Fusion GPS and the dossier which it appears they got from Russians.

Doesn't make it right.

It's not illegal.

It's a political sin at worst and it's one they all commit.

The media wouldn't be talking about the fake Dossier had Clinton won. It would have been a given. I also believe the Anwan bro doesn't get arrested If Clinton wins. But, that's just me making assumptions.

 

[Been Jammin]

I absolutely do.

Manafort
Page
Flynn
Jr email
Statements from Jr and the other Trump about Russia being a major source of funding of Trump, Inc.
Lies/false justifications for firing Comey
Sessions recusing
Rosenstein (Trump appointee) appointing Mueller

What you got on Seth Rich? Enlighten me. I've see the best that NZ has tried to provide on it....basically a lot of memes.

Here's the real deal though...I'm all for investigation of Trump re:Russia

I'm also for a full Wasserstein and/or Hillary investigation.

Can you say the same?

Or is it only one group you are interested in?

Agree 100%.

 

[CowboyJD]

Because what politician wouldn't meet someone to get dirt on an opponent?

I mean the DNC was involved with Fusion GPS and the dossier which it appears they got from Russians.

Doesn't make it right.

It's not illegal.

It's a political sin at worst and it's one they all commit.

The media wouldn't be talking about the fake Dossier had Clinton won. It would have been a given. I also believe the Anwan bro doesn't get arrested If Clinton wins. But, that's just me making assumptions.

Thank you for your expert legal opinion on the legality or illegality of deciding to meet with what you have been told are foreign government officials seeking to help with your election by giving you information and records of dirt on your opponent.

You have misread the reports and testimony if you have concluded that the dossier came from the Russians or that they paid for it. The actual testimony is that GPS also did work for Russian entities...not that the dossier was commissioned by Russia. Fusion GPS is an American company, btw. Not a foreign government official.

Even then....I'm all for investigating Hillary and whether she or her people similarly met with people they were told were Russian government officials wanting to give her dirt on Trump....whether her people received direct payments and met with and worked on behalf of foreign authorities then "forgot" to register as a foreign agent. For whatever else you got.

I'm all for it. Rosenstein has the authority to appoint special counsel to do so today. As we speak. I would cheer him if he did.

I'm consistent.

Not many of the rest of you are.

 

[ThorOdinson13]

Fusion GPS is American but they have ties to foreign entities, accepted funds from them, and did not report it. Go ahead and tell me. Did Trump Jr meet with foreign government officials? The answer so far is no. He met with private persons. We're they meeting on behalf of foreign officials? Probably. What was the topic? The Magenski act or however it is spelled. The ruse to get them there, dirt on an opponent.

The legality of the meeting is not my expert legal opinion it is the opinion of Alan Dershowitz, whom I trust. He flat out said that nothing so far constitutes any illegal activity. Also, someone I assume you'd not blow off.

I will say though, I do take some offense at that comment regarding my "expert legal opinion." You know for a fact I'm not a lawyer. So, knowing you are it wreaks of you trying to make a power play on nothing more than profession. Which is an insult to my intelligence.

Perhaps I'm just turning into a touchy drunk? If so, I apologize in advance sir.

Oh, and the British agent specifically said he got if from Russian officials.

 

[JimmyBob]

I started around 11:15 when we arrived at the restaraunt, after church

You sir, are my hero. Once upon a time, there was Galveston Island Seafood Restaurant close to my condo in Dallas; I was the designated "charm school director" at the bar (with official bus. cards). Given the responses to your posts, I think it's time to pass the torch, especially to someone who started before noon.

 

[davidallen]

True. You could say 15 months of investigating, but 9 months of sole Trump focus.

Can you possible point to some sort of fact to back this up? Specifically that there has been a special counsel looking at Trump collusion with Russian and associated mattes for the past 15 months? Astonishing. I only heard of it 8 or 9 weeks ago. While your at it, can you get the average duration of an investigation like this (independent counsel or special counsel)?

 

[davidallen]

That is damn funny.

And so timely. I mean apropos to the world around us wouldn't you say?

 

[davidallen]

What did he do exactly?

He pissed off the media, the legal establishment, and refused to do some basic things like share income tax returns that set off spidey senses around the beltway. Given any reasonable justification you had to know (and many here predicted) this whole shit show would unfold pretty much as it has.

My son today, the little dude who said "I want to see it all burn" about a year ago in regards to DJT, said today - "I wonder if Trump realized he would be the one to burn..." He included the elipsis for effect.

 

[squeak]

He included the elipsis for effect.

Lol

 

[shortbus]

I absolutely do.

Manafort
Page
Flynn
Jr email
Statements from Jr and the other Trump about Russia being a major source of funding of Trump, Inc.
Lies/false justifications for firing Comey
Sessions recusing
Rosenstein (Trump appointee) appointing Mueller

What you got on Seth Rich? Enlighten me. I've see the best that NZ has tried to provide on it....basically a lot of memes.

Here's the real deal though...I'm all for investigation of Trump re:Russia

I'm also for a full Wasserstein and/or Hillary investigation.

Can you say the same?

Or is it only one group you are interested in?

I want everyone investigated and if they are guilty I want them put in prison.

Not just Hillary and Trump. I mean everyone.

 

[CowboyJD]

Fusion GPS is American but they have ties to foreign entities, accepted funds from them, and did not report it. Go ahead and tell me. Did Trump Jr meet with foreign government officials? The answer so far is no. He met with private persons. We're they meeting on behalf of foreign officials? Probably. What was the topic? The Magenski act or however it is spelled. The ruse to get them there, dirt on an opponent.

The legality of the meeting is not my expert legal opinion it is the opinion of Alan Dershowitz, whom I trust. He flat out said that nothing so far constitutes any illegal activity. Also, someone I assume you'd not blow off.

I will say though, I do take some offense at that comment regarding my "expert legal opinion." You know for a fact I'm not a lawyer. So, knowing you are it wreaks of you trying to make a power play on nothing more than profession. Which is an insult to my intelligence.

Perhaps I'm just turning into a touchy drunk? If so, I apologize in advance sir.

Oh, and the British agent specifically said he got if from Russian officials.

You stated expressly and conclusively a legal opinion. Until called out by my statement, you didn't cite your source. Dershowitz has become a political hack. Take offense or don't. If you had said what you said here with regards to your definitive statement I wouldn't have done that.

As far as whether Jr met with foreign officials or not...that's what the investigation will determine among other things. I really don't get why you are so willing to accept Jr's version of the story. It's been inconsistent at best, contradictory at worst. It hasn't been transparent. That's exactly what I'm talking about when I say "get ahead of the story". And it looks like you've accepted his narrative and story as completely true and apparently decided "good enough for me. He says it, I believe it" and concluded no further investigation is needed.

 

[EvilPOKES]

 

[Ponca Dan]

He pissed off the media, the legal establishment, and refused to do some basic things like share income tax returns that set off spidey senses around the beltway. Given any reasonable justification you had to know (and many here predicted) this whole shit show would unfold pretty much as it has.

My son today, the little dude who said "I want to see it all burn" about a year ago in regards to DJT, said today - "I wonder if Trump realized he would be the one to burn..." He included the elipsis for effect.

Have you trained your son to be a libertarian? Kudos to your son. Let it all burn!

 

[Ponca Dan]

You stated expressly and conclusively a legal opinion. Until called out by my statement, you didn't cite your source. Dershowitz has become a political hack. Take offense or don't. If you had said what you said here with regards to your definitive statement I wouldn't have done that.

As far as whether Jr met with foreign officials or not...that's what the investigation will determine among other things. I really don't get why you are so willing to accept Jr's version of the story. It's been inconsistent at best, contradictory at worst. It hasn't been transparent. That's exactly what I'm talking about when I say "get ahead of the story". And it looks like you've accepted his narrative and story as completely true and apparently decided "good enough for me. He says it, I believe it" and concluded no further investigation is needed.

Here's what Alan Dershowitz says about Trump, Jr's actions. Please refute him.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Here's what Alan Dershowitz says about Trump, Jr's actions. Please refute him.

https://www.google.com/amp/insider.foxnews.com/amp/article/56883

 

[CowboyJD]

Trump Jr. said nothing came from the meeting and he was unaware that Veselnitskaya was possibly Kremlin-connected.

On Fox Business Network, Dershowitz explained that even if Trump Jr. received and used material that was obtained illegally, he's not in legal jeopardy as long as he had nothing to do with the illegal nature of obtaining the information.
-------------------

1. He takes Trump Jr. at his word that he was unaware that Beselnitskaya was possibly Kremlin-connected. The contents of the e-mail include:

"The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.

This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump - helped along by Aras and Emin."

"Emin asked that I schedule a meeting with you and The Russian government attorney who is flying over from Moscow for this Thursday." (emphasis added)

So from the very beginning, he is basing his opinion only upon Jr.'s version of the story (completely unaware of any possible Kremlin connection)....which is pretty incredible given language within the e-mails.

2. He also accepts DJTJR's statements as to who was there and what was discussed.

3. He addresses only that there is no jeopardy from accepting illegally obtained documents if he had nothing to do with the illegal nature of the documents. He in no way addresses the fact that it is illegal to solicit, accept, or receive a contribution (defined as money or anything of value....and "official documents" with Hillary dirt would be a thing of value) from a foreign national. It is a crime to attempt a crime if you take positive action in that attempt. If two or more people work together to attempt such a crime, you also then potentially have criminal conspiracy issues.

4. I'm not even arguing that DJTJR definitely and conclusively committed a crime. At this point, that would be just as silly and unsupportable as saying definitively and conclusively he didn't. I am saying that there is enough information available to me and the public (never mind the possibility of what other information may have already been obtained by investigators) to have reasonable suspicion that a crime might have been committed, and THAT'S the standard for a legally justifiable investigation.

 

[CowboyJD]

I want everyone investigated and if they are guilty I want them put in prison.

Not just Hillary and Trump. I mean everyone.

Right on brother.

You're on the train I've been conducting for years.

 

[Rdcldad]

Trump Jr. said nothing came from the meeting and he was unaware that Veselnitskaya was possibly Kremlin-connected.

junior should have said he had no idea the russian broad was allowed to circumvent immigration by AG loretta lynch.

if i would have known i would have smelled the rat

after they hit my dad on the hot mic grabbing pussy

i should have been more careful about my associations

we are political novices and not wise to the way the clintons obama the dnc and republican establishment have run this country

but through shear will power and support of the american people who want to make america great again

this administration will see its way trough this smear campaign

 

[cableok]

Can you possible point to some sort of fact to back this up? Specifically that there has been a special counsel looking at Trump collusion with Russian and associated mattes for the past 15 months? Astonishing. I only heard of it 8 or 9 weeks ago. While your at it, can you get the average duration of an investigation like this (independent counsel or special counsel)?

Seriously? You haven't read about potential Russian influence until 8 or 9 weeks ago? Dude, read a little. The MSM has had story after unsubstantiated allegation after story on this.

 

[Rdcldad]

Right on brother.

You're on the train I've been conducting for years.

the can of worms has been opened

this is their shot at the trump administration

i'm sure the retribution will result in no holds barred criminal prosecution for dws and the rest

 

[Ponca Dan]

Trump Jr. said nothing came from the meeting and he was unaware that Veselnitskaya was possibly Kremlin-connected.

On Fox Business Network, Dershowitz explained that even if Trump Jr. received and used material that was obtained illegally, he's not in legal jeopardy as long as he had nothing to do with the illegal nature of obtaining the information.
-------------------

1. He takes Trump Jr. at his word that he was unaware that Beselnitskaya was possibly Kremlin-connected. The contents of the e-mail include:

"The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.

This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump - helped along by Aras and Emin."

"Emin asked that I schedule a meeting with you and The Russian government attorney who is flying over from Moscow for this Thursday." (emphasis added)

So from the very beginning, he is basing his opinion only upon Jr.'s version of the story (completely unaware of any possible Kremlin connection)....which is pretty incredible given language within the e-mails.

2. He also accepts DJTJR's statements as to who was there and what was discussed.

3. He addresses only that there is no jeopardy from accepting illegally obtained documents if he had nothing to do with the illegal nature of the documents. He in no way addresses the fact that it is illegal to solicit, accept, or receive a contribution (defined as money or anything of value....and "official documents" with Hillary dirt would be a thing of value) from a foreign national. It is a crime to attempt a crime if you take positive action in that attempt. If two or more people work together to attempt such a crime, you also then potentially have criminal conspiracy issues.

4. I'm not even arguing that DJTJR definitely and conclusively committed a crime. At this point, that would be just as silly and unsupportable as saying definitively and conclusively he didn't. I am saying that there is enough information available to me and the public (never mind the possibility of what other information may have already been obtained by investigators) to have reasonable suspicion that a crime might have been committed, and THAT'S the standard for a legally justifiable investigation.

So even though no Hillary documents were provided to Trump, Jr, he may be guilty of a crime because he thought he might receive such documents?

Please don't misunderstand. I despise every politician, Trump and his posse included. I'm just trying to understand how Alan Dershowitz, an honored civil libertarian for decades could be so misguided. It comes as a surprise to me that's anyone would consider him a political hack. Especially when one knows he comes from the left, and, in his own words, "proudly voted for Hillary." His commitment to the protection of individual liberty trumps (pardon the pun) all other considerations. His comment about "show me the man and I'll find for you the law he has broken" seems chillingly appropriate to this situation.

 

[CowboyJD]

So even though no Hillary documents were provided to Trump, Jr, he may be guilty of a crime because he thought he might receive such documents?

Please don't misunderstand. I despise every politician, Trump and his posse included. I'm just trying to understand how Alan Dershowitz, an honored civil libertarian for decades could be so misguided. It comes as a surprise to me that's anyone would consider him a political hack. Especially when one knows he comes from the left, and, in his own words, "proudly voted for Hillary." His commitment to the protection of individual liberty trumps (pardon the pun) all other considerations. His comment about "show me the man and I'll find for you the law he has broken" seems chillingly appropriate to this situation.

Color me surprised you don't agree with my refutation.

Yes, an attempt to commit a crime is a crime itself.

 

[imprimis]

Is the commission of a crime without the intent to do so also a crime?

 

[CowboyJD]

Is the commission of a crime without the intent to do so also a crime?

There are a very few strict liability crimes, serving alcohol to a minor and statutory rape come to mind In some states. Several traffic offenses are strict liability as well. If you speed, it doesn't matter whether you meant to or not.

Most crimes have an element of some required intent. That intent varies based upon statute. It varies from knowingly (knowingly performing the prohibited act-not knowingly that the act is a crime) to malice aforethought and points in between (negligence/reckless).

 

[Been Jammin]

So even though no Hillary documents were provided to Trump, Jr, he may be guilty of a crime because he thought he might receive such documents?

How do we know that DJTJ did not receive anything helpful at the meeting, or after the meeting? Because he said so? Is it possible that he is lying about that? I mean, he was already caught lying about the meeting, and was forced to revise his story.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Color me surprised you don't agree with my refutation.

Yes, an attempt to commit a crime is a crime itself.

Where did you get the idea I disagreed with your refutation? I was just seeking clarification. My surprise came when you called one of the most knowledgeable, most reputable civil libertarians on the planet a political hack. Surprise, not anger. I'm not trying to initiate an argument.

 

[Ponca Dan]

How do we know that DJTJ did not receive anything helpful at the meeting, or after the meeting? Because he said so? Is it possible that he is lying about that? I mean, he was already caught lying about the meeting, and was forced to revise his story.

To whom did he lie? According to Dershowitz his lies have not constituted a crime. I'm not a legal scholar. Dershowitz is.

 

[CowboyJD]

Where did you get the idea I disagreed with your refutation? I was just seeking clarification. My surprise came when you called one of the most knowledgeable, most reputable civil libertarians on the planet a political hack. Surprise, not anger. I'm not trying to initiate an argument.

Sure thing.

If you think he is one of the most reputable civil libertarians on the planet, you might want to check out his 2nd amendment position (repeal it) and "Want Torture, Get a Warrant" article.

I'm not denying he is a helluva a lawyer. He is.

In this situation, he starts with the assumption that everything DJTJR claims about the Russia meeting is absolutely true. His claims run counter to the content of e-mails he released. He has given several different takes on the meeting and who was there.

 

[Been Jammin]

To whom did he lie? According to Dershowitz his lies have not constituted a crime. I'm not a legal scholar. Dershowitz is.

He found out that the WaPo was going to go public with the story of the meeting and he beat them to the punch. Then, he found out that they had his emails and he started telling a different story. I haven't said that he committed a crime. I just said that the only reason you/Dershowitz say that he didn't commit a crime is because you buy his version of what happened during/after the meeting.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ations-russia-meeting-trump-tower/480038001/#

 

[davidallen]

Seriously? You haven't read about potential Russian influence until 8 or 9 weeks ago? Dude, read a little. The MSM has had story after unsubstantiated allegation after story on this.

My bad, I thought you said the investigation was 15 months old... yeah, allegations been out there a while. Sure glad someone is now working to get to the bottom of it and either clear the POTUS or clearly lay out precisely the wrongdoing. I guess we are on the same page there.

 

[cableok]

My bad, I thought you said the investigation was 15 months old... yeah, allegations been out there a while. Sure glad someone is now working to get to the bottom of it and either clear the POTUS or clearly lay out precisely the wrongdoing. I guess we are on the same page there.

No we are not on the same page. You are trying to act like any investigation is just starting. That is just willfully wearing partisan blinders. You not counting the FBI investigation in this matter as an investigation is ... in your words ... astonishing. Why do you not? Is the FBI not an worthy organization to investigate? The official FBI investigation launched in Q2 of 2016.
So yes, I typed and said investigation. Which is 100% accurate. I also said the Trump-focus has been going for 9 months. Which is 100% accurate.