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About The Reported Lack Of Debate(s) In The Democratic Primary Season
- Thread starter Ponca Dan
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Yes, I watched the video and I heard plenty that today's Democratic Party believes in. The concerns of one are the concerns of all. Governments, including ours, should accept their responsibility to ensure social justice. The illusions of our differences that are the root of injustice and hate should continue to be stripped away. Etc.
Do you believe our government should accept its responsibility to ensure social justice for all Americans?
And if you notice, you have not yet commented on Donald Trump's view of Republican debates in 2024.
Which isn't surprising at all btw. You are doing on this thread exactly what I predicted you were going to do with RFK Jr. That and you sound absolutely bonkers as it relates to the Kennedy family.
RFK was troubled by our course of action in Vietnam, that is definitely true. We know he had reservations about our course of action in Vietnam stretching back to 1964, but for a while he kept these reservations and disagreements with LBJ private. However, RFK never advocated for just withdrawing from Vietnam in 1968. He wanted to end the corruption in the government of South Vietnam and adust our course of action. Here is an example of what RFK was saying in 1968:
"I do not want to simply withdraw or surrender in Vietnam. But for two years I have been concerned that our course would not bring victory; would not bring peace; would not stop bloodshed; and would not advance the interests of the United States. I have been concerned that we could fight for a government which would not end its widespread corruption; would not make its best efforts in its own defense; and would watch as more American lives are lost. These brave men fighting this difficult war must know that we are vigorously pursuing an honorable peace."
I tend to think had RFK been elected President, he probably would have eventually concluded we needed to withdraw from Vietnam. At least, I hope so. But I don't believe, based on his own words, that withdraw would have been his first action as President in Vietnam.
You should quit this thread before you make a bigger fool of yourself than you already have. This is a thread about the corrupt management of the Democrat Party regarding its refusal to let its own primary voters see its candidates debate each other. The question before the board is “why won’t the party leadership allow fair and free debates?” As a dyed-in-the-wool sycophant of the Democrat establishment you should already have been given the spin needed to address this question. It is curious you are trying so hard to deflect the conversation onto Trump, who is no longer a Democrat, rather than reveal how your party leaders plan to resolve this dilemma. As another poster said, if you want to talk about Trump’s cowardice regarding debate start your own thread. I’ll be more than happy to discuss it with you there.
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I fully understand what you want this thread to be about. What you only want to discuss while ignoring the other side of the coin. My request of you, which you are now dodging at all costs, is very relevant to the topic of this thread. So stop dodging and simply address the point I've raised.
Once again, go ahead and comment on Donald Trump's thoughts regarding debates for the Republican nomination in 2024.
Once again, start a thread about Trump balking at having to debate his primary opponents and I’ll engage you there. Once again, this is a thread about Biden’s handlers flatly stating there will be no debate. What’s the rationale for that? With the exception of @davidallen you are the most clued in Democrat on this board. Surely your handlers have already given you the talking points, so let’s hear them. The rest of us are beginning to think you’re as cowardly to address this subject as Biden’s bosses are to see him engage his opponents face to face.
Neither JFK or RFK would resort to the divisive tactics of today’s Democrats. They would have pursued reconciliation and consensus and would not refer to half the population as “extremist MAGA Republicans” or claimed they are the greatest security threat to the country. I know it’s painful for you to admit but neither of them would be comfortable hearing the abusive rhetoric spewing out the mouths of today’s Democrats. Hell, they probably wouldn’t be welcome in the party today if they said the things they said back then.
Again, go ahead and comment on Donald Trump's thoughts regarding debates for the Republican nomination in 2024. You did Biden's now, do Trump.
Anything? Anything at all? Or, are we just going to get another dodge from you lol?
And yet another dodge from Dan lol. Just more of his delusional ramblings in his defense of MAGA crazies (which, btw, Dodger Dan, doesn't make up half the population).
It is absolutely hilarious that you really believe JFK and RFK wouldn't be Democrats today and wouldn't be opposing what Trump stands for. Man, you really are off your rocker. President Biden's victories have really done a number on you (victories that the Kennedy family have fully supported!).
With that said, care to answer the question I asked you now or can we just expect another dodge? . . .
Do you believe our government should accept its responsibility to ensure social justice for all Americans?
Anything? Anything at all? Or are you just going to hide from the question all day? Go ahead, comment on the Democrat decision to shelter Biden from any opposition within his own party? And while you’re at it start a separate thread about Trump and primary debates, give us your take on what it means and I’ll join in and give my opinion. But first why don’t you grow a pair and shower us with the spin coming from your establishment bosses? We’re all dying to hear how you clean the dog poo off your shoes after you’ve tromped in it.
No, give your opinion now. Why can't you simply do this? You have no problem expressing your opinion on Biden as it relates to debates, so why are you struggling (and refusing) to comment on what Trump and his team has been saying about Republican primary debates?
Stop dodging and address Trump's position on all of this too. Go ahead. Is it even possible for you?
If you are on any medication for hyper emotional reaction to disagreeable things in your life, I would recommend you take an extra dose and seek immediate counsel to calm down. I’m beginning to worry you’re in danger of having a stroke. Your reactions today are not like your normal stonewalling. Something I’ve said has struck a nerve that has driven you into overdrive.
Stop dodging and rambling.
Once again, . . .
Do you believe our government should accept its responsibility to ensure social justice for all Americans?
Give *your* opinion now. Why can’t you simply do this? You have no problem expressing your opinion on Trump when it comes to anything, so why are you struggling (refusing) to comment on what the corrupt Democrat party machine has said and *done* about Democrat primary debates?
Stop dodging and address the subject of THIS thread! Start one on Trump and we’ll talk. If you think I won’t do it start a thread and see if I’ll give you my opinion. Why are you so reluctant (afraid) to start such a thread? Are you too chicken to hear what I might say?
You’ve asked a trick question. Tell us what you mean by “social justice.”
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Because there is no reason to start another thread on this topic. You can discuss right here on this thread what I've asked you. It directly relates to the top of this thread, debates.
So once again, address Trump's position on 2024 Republican primary debates. Do you agree with what Trump and his team are saying about potential debates?
Seriously, you now don't know what social justice is?🤣🤣
There is no trick question. It is a rather simple question, one btw, you have given your opinion on many times before on this board. But all of a sudden, now that you have heard RFK state that it is the responsibility of governments to ensure social justice, you want to act like you don't know what social justice is.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Just stop being silly Dodger Dan and answer the question . . .
Do you believe our government should accept its responsibility to ensure social justice for all Americans?
With the constant change of the meaning of words and phrases it's important to understand your current definition. That is why the question is asked. From what I can tell the "progressive's" definition is equal outcomes not equal opportunity.
Where in the Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights or the Constitution does it say anything about social justice?
From my perspective the founding of our country was about individual rights that protected the people from government. Now you want government to oversee and control the distribution of all facets to insure social justice? Seems to me that's a direct contradiction to the founding of our country. So to answer your question, no government has absolutely zero responsibility to ensure social justice.
Still waiting Dodger Dan . . .
Do you agree with RFK and believe our government should accept its responsibility to ensure social justice for all Americans?
That’s funny. I’m still waiting on you. Tell us what you think about the Democrat ruling elite forbidding its voters from watching their man debate, and tell us what you mean by “social justice.” Still waiting!
So as usual, you just aren't going to answer any questions that exposes how wrong your reasoning is.
You claimed what RFK said in the video I linked to had nothing to with the Democratic Party of today. I provided three examples from RFK's own words of how such a claim is wrong, including RFK stating that a responsibility of government is to ensure social justice. We all know you disagree with this. You have stated as much many times on this board. You want less government, not more. RFK did not share your views on government or your political philosophy. And the answer to the question that I asked you proves this. Hence, your refusal to man up and simply give an honest answer.
As for the debates, you continue to refuse to give your opinion on what Trump has been saying about Republican debates this cycle. Or even about your opinion of the Republican Party ruling "elite" not holding primary debates in 2020. Got any thoughts on that? Anything at all. Or just more dodging and hypocrisy?
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He gave his explanation of what he calls social justice. See how easy it was? Give us your definition and we’ll take it from there. What are you afraid of?
Where is my error? The Democrats with autocratic control of the party are not going to allow debates between their hand picked man and any other candidate. I’m looking for you to explain the justification for their edict. For some strange reason you refuse to contemplate an answer. What are you so afraid of?
How about you give your definition of social justice and answer the simple question I asked of you. Why can't you do that?
It is amazing how everytime anyone has these type of conversations with you and you are confronted with a question that totally undercuts your false claims, you all of a sudden become obtuse and feign ignorance. You all of a sudden don't know what social justice is. You didn't know what a socialist was, or a Democratic Socialist. Etc. Every time. 🤣🤣
Just stop dodging and answer the simple question. Even Bearcat could answer it and he wasn't even asked the question lol!
"Social justice" is an incredibly laughable term and the rubes who bandy it about are laughable.
Just as Republicans did in 2020, correct? Were you complaining about this back in 2020? What are your thoughts on what Trump is currently saying about potential Republican debates?
Goodness man, just state your opinion and thoughts as it relates to the Republican/Trump side of this topic. Stop dodging. What are you so afraid of?
I'm not afraid of anything.
I actually agree with those Democrats who want to see debates with one caveat. I think there should be some standard set for deciding who gets to participate in the debates. I don't think anybody who declares their intention to run for the Democratic nomination should automatically be allowed on a debate stage. For example, I don't think if you declared your intentions to run for the Democratic nomination, that means you should automatically be entitled to a debate with President Biden.
I actually think President Biden should want to debate in the primaries as it will help him prepare for the general election debates. Often times, the incumbent President struggles in his first general election debate because it is the first time they are forced to debate, while as their opponent already has participated in numerous debates. We saw this with Trump in 2020, Obama in 2012, George W. Bush in 2004, Reagan in 1984, etc.
As for the justification, what the Democratic Party is doing this year is the actual standard procedure as it relates to an incumbent seeking re-election. Republicans do the same thing. This isn't something that the Democratic Party just invented lol.
RFK used the term. And of course you would call him a rube. Which is my point.
See what I mean @Ponca Dan. Your belief that RFK wouldn't be a Democrat today is just flat out wrong. Just read what your fellow right-wingers are typing.
You may want to check what "Social justice" means in practice, now vs. 55 years ago.
And no one ever said RFK would be a Republican now, but he would be right repulsed by what they have become for sure. You strike me as lacking critical thinking skills.
I have, and it still means the same thing. And you would have opposed it 55 years ago too, just as you do now.
Yes, RFK would be repulsed by what the Republican Party has become today. No doubt about that.
RFK was a Democrat and he would still be a Democrat today. Just as the Kennedy family are still Democrats today. RFK became a liberal icon for a reason. Study history a little bit if you are confused about all of this.
Maybe read a book instead of banning/burning them.
Bobby Kennedy: The Making Of A Liberal Icon
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You jeep trying to turn the conversation toward the Republicans. This thread is about the Democrats. Start your own thread about Republicans and we can talk about that.
So you criticize your autocratic party leadership for hiding Biden from debating? Finally you showed some stones no one thought you had. But you didn’t answer *why* you thought the party bosses that control every aspect of what happens within the party are hiding Biden from debate exposure. We’re still waiting for you to actually answer the question that was asked way back at the beginning of this thread. Maybe you only showed you have one stone. Here’s one possible answer: the party autocrats are worried RFK, Jr. will destroy their hand picked man the same way Tulsi Gabbard destroyed Kamala back when the autocrats had pre-hand picked her. What are your thoughts on why the autocrats aren’t letting you have the debates that you think should happen - even you, the most subservient Democrat underling I have ever seen. Spill it!
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Because I'm trying to get you to understand or even admit that it isn't just the Democratic Party doing this. Your assertion in your original post of what is the standard procedure was wrong. And that is why, btw, you refuse to discuss what Republicans did in 2020 and what Trump is now saying. You know you were and are wrong.
The same reason the "party bosses" of the Republican Party hid Trump from debate exposure in 2020. Trump was the incumbent and Republican leaders wanted him to be the nominee. Same goes for Biden now. He is the incumbent.
This isn't rocket science man. Again, this is the standard procedure when an incumbent President runs for re-election. The Democratic Party isn't creating anything new here.
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Correction: it is an absolute foregone conclusion that RFK would be repulsed by today's GOP, but he is certainly rolling over in his grave by the Democrats becoming Demonrats.
The assertion that social justice is the same now as it was 55 years ago is beyond laughable.
Today's "Social justice":
1. Fight discrimination with even worse discrimination. Fight hatred with hatred and violence.
2. Take from others who work hard and are responsible citizens, and give to a bunch of shiftless, irresponsible morons,
3. Fill critical roles in government with inept, inexperienced airheads because they tick a box.
4. Call everyone you disagree with a racist, <fill in here>phobe, white Christian nationalist.
5. Allow perverts to incrementalize the normalization of sexual, mental illness and victimize children with it.
I could go on, and on, and on, and on. Social justice the same now as 55 years ago. ROFLMAO.
Idiot.
The assertion that social justice is the same now as it was 55 years ago is beyond laughable.
Today's "Social justice":
1. Fight discrimination with even worse discrimination. Fight hatred with hatred and violence.
2. Take from others who work hard and are responsible citizens, and give to a bunch of shiftless, irresponsible morons,
3. Fill critical roles in government with inept, inexperienced airheads because they tick a box.
4. Call everyone you disagree with a racist, <fill in here>phobe, white Christian nationalist.
5. Allow perverts to incrementalize the normalization of sexual, mental illness and victimize children with it.
I could go on, and on, and on, and on. Social justice the same now as 55 years ago. ROFLMAO.
Idiot.
I highly doubt RFK Jr. would "destroy" Biden in a debate. Indeed, I don't know if it would help RFK Jr. to debate Biden. Such a debate would give the President an excellent opportunity to define RFK Jr. to those Democratic voters who don't know much about him, and that could seriously hurt RFK Jr. moving forward, especially after the 2024 election cycle.
RFK Jr. has a huge benefit right now in that his last name is Kennedy. There are Democrats that don't know about some of his crazy positions and willingness to embrace wild conspiracy theories. A debate with President Biden would end that. I would think RFK Jr.'s advisors are just fine with no debate with the President at this time. No debate helps RFK Jr. too. Both in reality and spin.
btw, this too is also evident when one looks at Gabbard and Harris. You like to claim Gabbard destroyed Harris, but she didn't. Harris is currently Vice President and is the leading candidate for the nomination apart from Biden. Vice President Harris still has a political future in the Democratic Party and it sitting at the table of power and influence. And where is Gabbard right now? Yeah.🤣🤣
RFK helped create the modern day Democratic Party. He isn't rolling over in his grave about anything as it relates to Democrats.
Again, study some history. Read some books. Get off Fox News every now and then. Have you not figured out yet that network is playing you?
This rant could have been written by a member of the John Birch Society 55 years ago.
As I stated, you would have opposed social justice 55 years ago just as you do today. If RFK or JFK was alive today, you would talk about them the way you talk about Edward Kennedy. Some things never change, and you are a perfect example of this.
