A warning for anyone who dares cross the liberals
- Thread starter HighStickHarry
- Start date
But, until a fracture does happen, it will be the default choice for liberal leaning people. The moderate wings of both parties have been betrayed. Donald Trump is not a moderate politician, he is the byproduct of a reaction to the Obama presidency, from a hard, perhaps attempted, shift to the left. Would you agree? I think that's a political, economic and cultural reaction.
I believe we've reached the end game to a centuries-old contest between two parties. They have become really nothing more than grotesque versions of one another that have to move further and further apart from each other by design. Our natural inclinations and environments puts us one side or the other, and now those sides are polar opposites. How many millions of people have already made up their mind for the next 5 elections? Can you imagine in a million years some posters on here EVER voting for a Democrat? Or some of the posters EVER voting for a Republican*? That's what I think is the worry. That we have reached a point where the mindset is I will vote for ANYTHING my party trots out there if it means defeating the other side. I think it's dangerous politically, but I think it's really dangerous intellectually.
*Though I do love when people throw in that they USED to vote for the other guys until, blah blah blah.
If Kavanaugh is shown to have committed perjury under oath during his confirmation hearings, should he sit as a Supreme Court Justice? A simple yes or no will suffice.
Yes, due to precedent, if I were deciding. I'm not though. Did you ride the short bus to school?
Now how about an answer re: Swetnick?
Look how far your extreme partisanism has led you. You now have no problem with perjury (unless it is Ford or Swetnick) and believe it is acceptable for a Supreme Court nominee to commit perjury during his confirmation hearings.
What other principles and values are you going to sacrifice on the altar of Trumpism?
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This is possibly the most thoughtful, cogent and true post I have ever read on this board. Well said!
This will be brief, but I'll try to circle back again, as you put quite a bit of thought into this...which I appreciate.
I don't know that I agree that the moderates of either party have been betrayed at this point. Both parties are made up of smaller voting factions. For example, Trump is a social moderate...some would even say slightly left of center.
Maybe it's better to itemize this on Trump:
Social policy: moderate.
Immigration: Right. I don't believe there is a "hard right" position here unless you go all the way to white supremacists, which is greatly overstated by the left. Enforcement of law is the primary driver. Overhaul of immigration laws are desired. We are a nation of immigrants.
Spending: Left
Taxes: Right
Trade: Center Left
Regulations: Right
Social issues again (abortion, LGBT): Left
Defense: Center (increase spending but loathe to seek conflict)
Foreign policy: Shoot I don't know... largely effective.
So, IMHO, you have to dig deeper than Right vs Left.
Where I make a distinction for the Left is what has arisen considerably in the past 15 years...post modernist progressivism and the relativistic, zero sum, tribal culture it divides people into.
No longer do the emotional arguments center around an appropriate tax rate or safety net, but around increasingly segmented groups of victims and oppresors, winners and losers....
So... For me at this time, I bite my tongue at the obscene level of spending or lack of litmus test on abortion for a judge. @07pilt has made convincing arguments centered around spending and I've matured to realize that my value set isn't too be forced upon another.
But on both issues I do want a middle way. We can't borrow to a catastrophic inflection point where government borrowing interest rates skyrocket or we have to inflate our way to paying debt. Similarly, i''d like the left to compromise on abortion and put in pragmatic limitations surrounding efficacy of life of the fetus.
I guess i'm saying I've witnessed first hand in myself and in the right a tremendous amount of "give" and compromise by the right.
Under Bill Clinton the Left compromised and the country was better for it.
Now the progressives control the left, and no compromise exists.
The moderates on the left need to reassert themselves... the biggest winner would be culture.
Because there is no compromising from progressives, it's all virtue or evil, culture is torn, and neighbors become enemies.
This has been a bit rambling, but suffice it to say, I literally loathe the progressive left for who they choose to be and what they've done to culture. I generally detest the people who dance behind language, double speak, and are SO defined by their politics that they lose sight of real-fuking-life because they are vice-gripped in to an ever-present game of "gotcha."
I want with all my heart for a moderate left to rise again, where identity politics largely takes a back seat to innovative ideas and constructive talk about how best to help the parts of the population who need it most.
This isnt my best stuff, but it's all I've got at the moment. I'll try to get back with you if you need to center me more directly on what you were saying (and I missed it).
Now the ad hominems.
It is tough when you actually have someone challenging all the junk you get spoon fed from the right-wing media, isn't it? Just attack me again though, your fellow right-wingers will laugh and like, and you can feel like a big man behind a computer.
Have a good evening.
pictured, you in this thread.
BeenJammin and Pokeabear liking this post is like...
Good effort little fella.
Trump is a social moderate?
- historical evidence of racism
- transgender military ban
- immigration hardliner
Da Fuq?
- historical evidence of racism
- transgender military ban
- immigration hardliner
Da Fuq?
pictured, you in this thread.
BeenJammin and Pokeabear liking this post is like...
Good effort little fella.
Wow. Very interesting read. Some even more interesting things in the responses. Thanks for posting that.
This interesting article was linked in one of the responses...
https://stream.org/framing-brett-kavanaugh-anita-hill-borking-playbook-revised/
Just so I understand, could you provide me with Kavanaugh’s testimony regarding his drinking.
Enforcing immigration laws is being an "immigration hardliner?" Man, you're perpetually drunk on the lefty Koolaid.
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