Consider the possibility that John cares less about winning a dual in early December than he does about putting the right team on the mat in March. If that's his major focus then it makes perfect sense, prior to March, to do everything he can to gather the data. He can only gather so much data in the practice room, so duals and tourneys are crucial testing beds. He's also under pressure to make his mind up quick in order to get that starting rotation qualified and seeded the best they can be. If that's the case, then these early season duals are essentially practice and John needs his guys to practice in all the positions, both physically and mentally, in order to find out the best positions for them in March. To be making sweeping generalizations at this point about wrestlers and/or coaches is just a knee jerk reaction with little real value. I'm confident John will have the best possible team on the mat in March and he will know what positions to put them in to give them the best chance to win.
35 here we come
- Thread starter osukev1988
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I never said that on this board or yours, if you want to say that, go a head. I talked about Kyle Crutchmer in my post, does that mean I called him one? I'm sorry if I made you cry, I'm getting all teary eyed right now. Sorry I have to get off because I can't see the key pad right now.
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All practice at this point. Everything up to the Big Xii is almost a virtual ranking match...and it has proven successful. The trick this year is what we have in RS that he might have a hard time gauging his mental rankings.
Also, he is a father to one of them and knows his goals as if they were his own. Do you destroy a goal if you know its better for the team? There is little doubt at this point that the RS guys would benefit the team at this point...but will it in March? Its a long and grueling season...possibly too long for a true freshman.
Also, he is a father to one of them and knows his goals as if they were his own. Do you destroy a goal if you know its better for the team? There is little doubt at this point that the RS guys would benefit the team at this point...but will it in March? Its a long and grueling season...possibly too long for a true freshman.
oooooh, I love the guessing game.........I bet its Joe Smith, he's had the best success against current ranked opponents. That could also be a reason he didn't wrestle open this weekend......my lock is Joe Smith gets pulled out this weekend..not that I actually believe this will happen, but if one were to be burned, it'd be him right now
Any of you guys actually wrestle? It is imperative that a wrestler can handle all 3 positions. You don't get better at something by avoiding it or not doing it. Duals don't mean jack crap right now. John has to find out if certain wrestlers can respond to areas they are uncomfortable with now during the dual season. I would make him go down every match until big 12 or nationals. Just my .02
If you pull one at this point, you might as well pull all 3. When your fanbase does their predictions based on holding 3 weights to a decision, what do you have to lose?
Every prediction seems to go as follows:
133 - #47 Wrestler vs. Harding...hopefully we only give up 3.
157 - #112 Wrestler vs. Marstellar...hopefully he doesn't gas before the whistle
197 - #74 Wrestler vs. Who knows...hopefully we only give up 3 here.
I know that Harding is hurt, and I know the fanbase is hurt by what Marstellar is showing. But at this point, it might be best to hold them off to figure out what things for themselves. For the sake of their mental health, I sure hope they get it figured out.
I am excited about Brock and Smith! It only seems fair to them to keep them in RS (Oliver) to give them the best chance at their goals, which is most likely 4xer. In the same breath, is it fair to the seniors in the room to leave the best Program without a Title?
Tough call for Smith!
Every prediction seems to go as follows:
133 - #47 Wrestler vs. Harding...hopefully we only give up 3.
157 - #112 Wrestler vs. Marstellar...hopefully he doesn't gas before the whistle
197 - #74 Wrestler vs. Who knows...hopefully we only give up 3 here.
I know that Harding is hurt, and I know the fanbase is hurt by what Marstellar is showing. But at this point, it might be best to hold them off to figure out what things for themselves. For the sake of their mental health, I sure hope they get it figured out.
I am excited about Brock and Smith! It only seems fair to them to keep them in RS (Oliver) to give them the best chance at their goals, which is most likely 4xer. In the same breath, is it fair to the seniors in the room to leave the best Program without a Title?
Tough call for Smith!
Thats what I think I said earlier? The season doesn't really matter...March does! Also, if a kid can't get out from bottom, he can't Wrestle. In this type of case, one takedown wins the match by 3!
Your own histrionics aside, this is what was in the middle of your long post:
snip
... Chance won't be the answer at 157/165 this or next year. Team chemistry isn't good, cut the cancer and move on ...
--------
So who/what is the cancer? Sure seems like the second point follows from the first. Chance did pretty well at 165 last year in limited duty - why won't he be the answer there next year?
What you say is mostly true IMO, I was just stating an observation that I had made about a certain instance. I wrestled and if I had been ridden like Crutchmer, I wouldn't have wanted to go back down. I understand what John has to do and therefore understand his decision making. I would have done it differently but that doesn't mean that I am right or wrong, it's just the way I would have done it. He did it a different way and he got the information that he needed. I got that information when he couldn't get out in the first 2:15 he was ridden.
John clearly stated in his radio show that dual meets do matter so how can I sit here and think that John thinks they don't. All of your points are valid about all positions, it's all about NCAA's but I can't go along with duals mean crap. On the scale of all things being, yes they are on the end of the totem pole, but they are there on it, so it must mean something.
Chickenman, now your talking points in a sentence, way over my 6 grade education. You have to remember who posted it, drop your IQ by 50 and sentence structure then you will understand!
I am going to assume you can not read my reply. It must have gone into the cloud whatever that is.
Post was too long anyway.
1. Never said or implied that John or any other coach is giving me information. That would be "laughable". I did say John told several of us in Vegas that no spot was sacred and that redshirts will wrestle if they are the best man. He was generic in this and did not comment specifically on any weight. Have I talked to John and known him over the years? That would be a yes but I am not knowledgeable enough to give him advice and he is certainly not going to share it with me.
2. I have no personal animus against Chance. I am disappointed he has not wrestled any where near where he was in High school. He was not asked to go to 157 last year and I do know he was not successful against several at 157/165. He did go up at the Southern Scuffle and looked well.
3. It is no surprise to Chance that we need him at 157 this year. He has had ample time to get there and based on his results he has not been successful. I am not seeing the improvement that others purport to see. Nywrestler and others have pointed out that it could be strictly the weight cut. I see the logic of their argument but do not agree.
4. Let us say for the sake of argument that he goes to 165 or even 174 at the scuffle and is successful in beating some ranked wrestlers at that weight. That does nothing to help us this year. If he can not successfully wrestle at 157 then he and John need to determine that.
5. I am no expert and have no insider information. I post what I see. I am responsible to any other poster on this board and that includes Tognetti. However, in his defense I do not believe he was implying that Chance or Kyle was the "cancer". It does look that way but you have to know the history of his posts to know sometimes when making a point he gets carried away and sentences do not follow any logical conclusion.
6. This board is for the expression of opinions. I do not think mine are necessarily better than others. I am a supporter of OK State wrestling and have been for 55 years. I sometimes post from my heart and not from fact as Micco will attest. He refers to my annual predictions of 11 All-Americans and 9 National champions. He jests, but only a little. I admit I am a homer.
LETS GO POKES!!!
Post was too long anyway.
1. Never said or implied that John or any other coach is giving me information. That would be "laughable". I did say John told several of us in Vegas that no spot was sacred and that redshirts will wrestle if they are the best man. He was generic in this and did not comment specifically on any weight. Have I talked to John and known him over the years? That would be a yes but I am not knowledgeable enough to give him advice and he is certainly not going to share it with me.
2. I have no personal animus against Chance. I am disappointed he has not wrestled any where near where he was in High school. He was not asked to go to 157 last year and I do know he was not successful against several at 157/165. He did go up at the Southern Scuffle and looked well.
3. It is no surprise to Chance that we need him at 157 this year. He has had ample time to get there and based on his results he has not been successful. I am not seeing the improvement that others purport to see. Nywrestler and others have pointed out that it could be strictly the weight cut. I see the logic of their argument but do not agree.
4. Let us say for the sake of argument that he goes to 165 or even 174 at the scuffle and is successful in beating some ranked wrestlers at that weight. That does nothing to help us this year. If he can not successfully wrestle at 157 then he and John need to determine that.
5. I am no expert and have no insider information. I post what I see. I am responsible to any other poster on this board and that includes Tognetti. However, in his defense I do not believe he was implying that Chance or Kyle was the "cancer". It does look that way but you have to know the history of his posts to know sometimes when making a point he gets carried away and sentences do not follow any logical conclusion.
6. This board is for the expression of opinions. I do not think mine are necessarily better than others. I am a supporter of OK State wrestling and have been for 55 years. I sometimes post from my heart and not from fact as Micco will attest. He refers to my annual predictions of 11 All-Americans and 9 National champions. He jests, but only a little. I admit I am a homer.
LETS GO POKES!!!
I think discussing the work ethic and what is going on in a 19 year old kids head is just not appropriate. Competing as an athlete and making grades is challenging enough. Throw in pulling weight to 10 pounds less than you wrestled in high school probably adds to the challenge.
Just to be out there shows he has a hell of a lot better work ethic than I did at that age.
Just to be out there shows he has a hell of a lot better work ethic than I did at that age.
Haha! Mikey Toggs always finds a way to make amends in a humorous way and bring me back to his side. You're a paisan! I'll let Al Pacino say it for me:Chickenman, now your talking points in a sentence, way over my 6 grade education. You have to remember who posted it, drop your IQ by 50 and sentence structure then you will understand!
Anyone else listen to the show tonight....man things are about to get shaken up....
We might see this happening, I am more than thinking someone's RS gets pulled if not more than one.....it sounds like John is on his last leg with Chance for now, not suprising, but I hope it works out for Chance in the long run. Real big hints on all coming out of RS. I wish I could find the transcript for tonight's show....anyways, gonna be a good bedlam.
We might see this happening, I am more than thinking someone's RS gets pulled if not more than one.....it sounds like John is on his last leg with Chance for now, not suprising, but I hope it works out for Chance in the long run. Real big hints on all coming out of RS. I wish I could find the transcript for tonight's show....anyways, gonna be a good bedlam.
John didn't say who? I know who it is, I was hoping John would spill the beans. First hint, he has won at least 3 state titles in Oklahoma. Second hint, he went to Stillwater high school. Third, he fills a spot at a needed weight. With those 3 hints you should know who it is!
Fourth hint, the letter O and I is in his name. If you can't figure it out, your not a real OSU fan
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I also like that he said Collica is running and seems that he'll be ready to go on Sunday......
Why not just pull both Brock and Smith. Technically they are both needed weights. Harding is the best choice right now at 33, and unless there are some drastic changes in his wrestling, no points in March there. It's apparent the Chance is not good at 57, even John hinted that it's not working at this weight and that they should readjust. Blees is good, but I don't see points in March with him either. So why not try both freshmen here, what do they have to lose. You know everyone (Iowa, Penn State, and the rest of the bunch) are just sitting at home waiting to hear the news that they have been pulled out and that their hopes of NCAA wins have gone down drastically........hahahha
Why not just pull both Brock and Smith. Technically they are both needed weights. Harding is the best choice right now at 33, and unless there are some drastic changes in his wrestling, no points in March there. It's apparent the Chance is not good at 57, even John hinted that it's not working at this weight and that they should readjust. Blees is good, but I don't see points in March with him either. So why not try both freshmen here, what do they have to lose. You know everyone (Iowa, Penn State, and the rest of the bunch) are just sitting at home waiting to hear the news that they have been pulled out and that their hopes of NCAA wins have gone down drastically........hahahha
I forgot to mention 197, If Marsden was beating Schafer in open tournaments handily, I think he would pull him out too. John was pretty disappointed with Schafer's effort on Sunday.....well everyone effort for that matter.....I don't think Marsden will get pulled until after scuffle, if he gets pulled at all.
Harding is hurt, hurt enough where he can't wrestle like he did last year. Taking one for the team, love Gary but it won't be enough this season.
Will will be interesting if Megaldo can indeed get to 33.
I don't think little Marsden is an answer this year. Schafer just needs some confidence. Looks like he's managing his weight well. I'm hoping for a Jack Jensen turnaround for him.
I keep hoping a light switch flips for chance. I know he's not cut before, but there is plenty of help for him to learn to do it right. Does anyone honestly see him dominating at 65? We've seen what more rangy wrestlers have done to him at 57. I have to believe 65 would be just as bad, or worse.
I hope chandler can make the cut to 65 next year. He's too good to sit the bench for two years, and there's no way you sit a sr. Crutchmer.
84 is just perplexing. I, like many of you, watched Rogers dominate Boyd at OCU. No one could get close to a take down on him, and he scored from all positions. Someone has to emerge here, for us to have a chance. Might just need a could wins at nationals to make the difference in the team outcome.
Listened to John, post match. He spoke a lot about chemistry. I have a feeling changes will happen in both roster and approach.
It's all practice until March, but we need to send at least nine, if we are going to have a legit shot at the title. Right now I see 7 at most. Someone has to step up at 33, 57, 84 and 97. I can easily see finals for 41,65,74. AA for 25, 49 and heavy. The core is there for the run.
Fingers crossed we figure some things out!
I don't think little Marsden is an answer this year. Schafer just needs some confidence. Looks like he's managing his weight well. I'm hoping for a Jack Jensen turnaround for him.
I keep hoping a light switch flips for chance. I know he's not cut before, but there is plenty of help for him to learn to do it right. Does anyone honestly see him dominating at 65? We've seen what more rangy wrestlers have done to him at 57. I have to believe 65 would be just as bad, or worse.
I hope chandler can make the cut to 65 next year. He's too good to sit the bench for two years, and there's no way you sit a sr. Crutchmer.
84 is just perplexing. I, like many of you, watched Rogers dominate Boyd at OCU. No one could get close to a take down on him, and he scored from all positions. Someone has to emerge here, for us to have a chance. Might just need a could wins at nationals to make the difference in the team outcome.
Listened to John, post match. He spoke a lot about chemistry. I have a feeling changes will happen in both roster and approach.
It's all practice until March, but we need to send at least nine, if we are going to have a legit shot at the title. Right now I see 7 at most. Someone has to step up at 33, 57, 84 and 97. I can easily see finals for 41,65,74. AA for 25, 49 and heavy. The core is there for the run.
Fingers crossed we figure some things out!
I might be the only one left on this board who thinks he's better up at 165 only because he's proven it already with the same results at 157 last year after listening to flo radio yesterday Willie and CP seem to agree as well chandler Rogers is a fine wrestler who had a good redshirt year but he had no signature wins chance had 3 they both wrestled at the scuffle (1 of 2 tournaments they were at the same weight) where chance took 4th and Rogers DNP
I would think with Gfeller and Fix coming up and assume they go to Ok State, that pulling redshirts of a 133 pounder would not be a big deal long term. Looks to me like Smith is going to have to move lightweights through pretty fast and keep options open to keep everybody happy.
I agree with you. Chance is a kid who had a rough go at it and not just talking his time in Stillwater. He has a very high level of talent and has shown those flashes at times the past two years. He may never live up to his potential or get things figured out but he has shown he can beat high level wrestlers at 165 and that was as a true freshman last year.
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We all know of Wrestlers in the past that came in with much fanfare, however, they didn't pan out for issues other than talent. Some of the issues with that I've known about are:
-Discipline
-burnout
-weight issues
-health issues
-difference in opinion from the greatest Wrestler ever
-talent ceiling
-stiff competition at a desired or efficient weight
So if I were to guess, Chance is suffering from one or more of the above issues. Hopefully, he gets it figured out and we praise Chance as a 3xer or a even a 4x AA...but his window for being the latter is almost shut it seems?
-Discipline
-burnout
-weight issues
-health issues
-difference in opinion from the greatest Wrestler ever
-talent ceiling
-stiff competition at a desired or efficient weight
So if I were to guess, Chance is suffering from one or more of the above issues. Hopefully, he gets it figured out and we praise Chance as a 3xer or a even a 4x AA...but his window for being the latter is almost shut it seems?
I'm the furthest thing from a wrestling insider as there will ever be. I'm sure most speaking on this know a lot more about what is going on in the room than I am. Still, it might be a tad soon to make any bold declarations on a kid who is only a freshman and has three years of eligibility remaining.
NY, you aren't the only one that thinks he will be better at 165, everybody does (but Alex is pound for pound the best wrestler in D1 has at that spot). As for next year, I give C Rogers the edge at 165, but it could be the other way around. You are looking at what happened last year and I'm looking at who will be better next year. Two years difference, at this time who cares because unless Alex gets hurt Chance will only be handing Alex a towel as he is coming off the mat. As for CP and Willie, they haven't seen anything that would indicate that Chance has gotten better this year. They are going by what they have seen at the SS last year and what he has done before, we all have seen how he was. Is he better or worse, I don't know except he hasn't shown it. I hope it all comes together for him because we sure can use him.
And that's just the wrestling side of it. There's also:
-first time away from parents
-experiencing all college experiences
-learning about and exploring interests off the mat
-girlfriends
-life in general
All these things and more. And they're not wrong for going through any one of those phases. All kids do. That's what makes watching the more successful wrestlers even more impressive.
Agreed, I know when I joined the army out of high school, it was a crazy change and it took awhile to adjust, longer than a year. Pychological stresses are just as bad.
