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35 here we come

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osukev1988

Commitment
Jan 28, 2012
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let's face it we are a better tourney team than dual team. dean won the equivalent of quarters match last week against thorn and finals match today against jack. alex was alex again and got the fall. kyle has wrestled with far more energy and aggressiveness this year than last and looks very confident. eddie didnt give up and won a match against a good wrestler. kaid won the tourney in dominant fashion today. andrew got 5 pins today en route to his win today. joe has 2 wins against ranked guys this year. tristan won his weight and nic won his weight. while some will choose to see negative things out of today, i will focus on the fact that the team i believe will be wrestling come march is looking very good.

go pokes
 
We are definitely a better tournament team with 3 potential finalists and 3 other Potential AA, but i think we will need to score some points at 33, 57, and 97 and I am not confident we can do this with today's line up. I think we are a better team in Feb and March, but also suspect we will see changes in the line up.
 
roccowboy said:
We are definitely a better tournament team with 3 potential finalists and 3 other Potential AA, but i think we will need to score some points at 33, 57, and 97 and I am not confident we can do this with today's line up. I think we are a better team in Feb and March, but also suspect we will see changes in the line up.
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Hard to pick on a guy when he is down but John has given Chance every "chance" and he looks sluggish and in poor shape in the first period. My guess is John does not want to take Joe out of redshirt but I see no other option or we will see more embarrassing matches like today. It will still depend on the Southern Scuffle but I expect we will see a change at 157. I have seen more movement out of a statue than I saw in the 133 pound match. 6:17 of riding time in a 7 minute match may have set a record. Kaid was dominant today in Kansas. When we get Collica back we will be more competitive in a dual and really we would have won the match today if Collica was healthy and able to wrestle. Dean Heil looked very good in a match with #2. Alex is unbeatable or the next best thing to unbeatable at 165 and Kyle Crutchmer continues to gain confidence and offense at 174 but he still needs to wrestle a whole match without taking time off. I still think Nolan Boyd is our wrestler at 184 but he continues to make mistakes in mat positioning and if there is a way to turn wrong at a critical time he finds it. He does however wrestle a full 7 minutes and I believe he is better than his ranked opponent today without mistakes. Andrew Marsden had five matches today in Kansas and none got out of the first period as he had five first period falls. Austin Schafer did not wrestle poorly but he is woefully slow. Austin Marsden did not wrestle badly but I believe heavyweight is like 165 and Alex, it is Gwiazadowski and the rest of the field. Austin could be in the finals as he is as good as anyone else in that weight class. I now believe we should pull three freshman out of redshirt at 133,157 and 197 and let them gain experience and I think particularly in Joe's case we can score points at Nationals. Not down about today's matches and frankly it went just about the way I thought it would. We are definitely a strong tournament team and North Carolina State is a strong dual team.
LETS GO POKES!!!
 
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If Marsden is going to be in the finals he better find a shot in a match against a ranked opponent because every time he wrestles a top 10 type he shuts his offense completely down and just ties up and tries to play defense. You can not win if you do not shoot and he is definitely capable I just can not for the life of me figure out how he can look so good one match then wrestle like he has no offensive potential in the next match.
For OSU to contend for number 35 we are going to have to pull multiple redshirts and I really don`t know if John will pull Joe`s redshirt if he does not think he has a chance to win it all and with Martinez still at 157 I do not know if Joe has a chance to win this year. A very tough choice for a coach and a father I do not envy John on that decision but with Chance appearing helpless at 157 and Bless looking about the same it will certainly have to be something he considers for the best for the team.
 
125-When Klimara gets into game shape and goes for 7 minutes, he will be tough to handle.
133-Never seen someone get ridden for over 6 minutes and I felt good about it. It was piss-poor wrestling but he didn't give up bonus points.
141-Great match with two good wrestlers. Heil has a chance to win it.
149-Dolan seemed afraid to turn lose but he did give it his best. He was too slow to score on his guy.
157-Not a display of Cowboy wrestling.
165-No. 8 wrestler traveled all the way from North Carolina to get the chance to look at GIA light in 29 seconds.
174-Crutch needs to go for the full match but he shows the ability to be a player next March.
184-Boyd would be my favorite off this team if he would quit doing dumb stuff. He wrestles hard for 7 minutes but allows himself to get into predicaments by his own choosing. He is truly feast or famine.
197-Schafer wrestled smart but he has no offense against a good wrestler. Much like 133 and 157, there won't be any points scored at nationals at this weight.
HWY-I know Oberero likes Marsden but he is a big heavy who can only beat average or below wrestlers. He has no offense and a 2-1 score is his dream match. The only offense that he has displayed this year got him suspended for the next match. He will score some points at nationals until he runs into a heavy that can score on him and then it will be over.
 
The crazy thing about Marsden is he does let loose some times. He was extremely offensive when he beat coon at the scuffle last year.
At 165 was Chad Pyke, Roshkopf #8 at 165 bumped up to 174.
Moran winning today was impressive. Abidin was ranked 12 th at 141 by flo. Gone defeated him and then Moran defeated Hone. 2 backups at 141 finished ahead of the 12 ranked guy, now that is depth.
Marsdens results were good in KS, but pretty sure Schafer beat him by quite a bit a few weeks ago.
I see that Magaldo defaulted out, hope he is ok.
 
oberebo said:
Hard to pick on a guy when he is down but John has given Chance every "chance" and he looks sluggish and in poor shape in the first period. My guess is John does not want to take Joe out of redshirt but I see no other option or we will see more embarrassing matches like today. It will still depend on the Southern Scuffle but I expect we will see a change at 157. I have seen more movement out of a statue than I saw in the 133 pound match. 6:17 of riding time in a 7 minute match may have set a record. Kaid was dominant today in Kansas. When we get Collica back we will be more competitive in a dual and really we would have won the match today if Collica was healthy and able to wrestle. Dean Heil looked very good in a match with #2. Alex is unbeatable or the next best thing to unbeatable at 165 and Kyle Crutchmer continues to gain confidence and offense at 174 but he still needs to wrestle a whole match without taking time off. I still think Nolan Boyd is our wrestler at 184 but he continues to make mistakes in mat positioning and if there is a way to turn wrong at a critical time he finds it. He does however wrestle a full 7 minutes and I believe he is better than his ranked opponent today without mistakes. Andrew Marsden had five matches today in Kansas and none got out of the first period as he had five first period falls. Austin Schafer did not wrestle poorly but he is woefully slow. Austin Marsden did not wrestle badly but I believe heavyweight is like 165 and Alex, it is Gwiazadowski and the rest of the field. Austin could be in the finals as he is as good as anyone else in that weight class. I now believe we should pull three freshman out of redshirt at 133,157 and 197 and let them gain experience and I think particularly in Joe's case we can score points at Nationals. Not down about today's matches and frankly it went just about the way I thought it would. We are definitely a strong tournament team and North Carolina State is a strong dual team.
LETS GO POKES!!!
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What I have seen this year so far, 35 does not look like it is coming. I know it is complicated but last years recruiting class is not looking as well as we had hoped. I watched the dual on flowrestling and it was very disappointing. Klimara was okay, Crutchmer should never be wre4stling but at least he stayed off his back. Heil wrestled well except on the first takedown where he lost focus. Dolan shouldn't be wrestling for us. Marsteller has been a tremendous disappointment. He does not look all sucked out from losing so much weight but he looked like he quit during part of that match. Dieringer is fantastic and deserves to be on a championship team also but. Crutchmer is very good. Consistently I have said Nolan Boyd starting as a freshman and he has not developed much since. Recruiting mistakes is really evident at 84. 97 demonstrates lots of recruiting mistakes and not any development of wrestlers. Marsden has not improved since his soph. year. It makes you wonder about our upper weight coaching which would likely be Chris Perry. It seems to me our only wrestlers who develop much are blue chips. At NDSU the last 3 years Sprenkle, Monk, Zillmer and their 74 from last year were all americans. Why do our notch or 2 below blue chips not develop into any all americans? Its sad but I think we will also have to pull freshman out of redshirts because we have a lot of disappointing wrestlers at this point of the year. That is my thought tonight.
 
april racer said:
The crazy thing about Marsden is he does let loose some times. He was extremely offensive when he beat coon at the scuffle last year.
At 165 was Chad Pyke, Roshkopf #8 at 165 bumped up to 174.
Moran winning today was impressive. Abidin was ranked 12 th at 141 by flo. Gone defeated him and then Moran defeated Hone. 2 backups at 141 finished ahead of the 12 ranked guy, now that is depth.
Marsdens results were good in KS, but pretty sure Schafer beat him by quite a bit a few weeks ago.
I see that Magaldo defaulted out, hope he is ok.
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Flo shows it being Stacy Davis v AD.
 
Harleycowboy said:
What I have seen this year so far, 35 does not look like it is coming. I know it is complicated but last years recruiting class is not looking as well as we had hoped. I watched the dual on flowrestling and it was very disappointing. Klimara was okay, Crutchmer should never be wre4stling but at least he stayed off his back. Heil wrestled well except on the first takedown where he lost focus. Dolan shouldn't be wrestling for us. Marsteller has been a tremendous disappointment. He does not look all sucked out from losing so much weight but he looked like he quit during part of that match. Dieringer is fantastic and deserves to be on a championship team also but. Crutchmer is very good. Consistently I have said Nolan Boyd starting as a freshman and he has not developed much since. Recruiting mistakes is really evident at 84. 97 demonstrates lots of recruiting mistakes and not any development of wrestlers. Marsden has not improved since his soph. year. It makes you wonder about our upper weight coaching which would likely be Chris Perry. It seems to me our only wrestlers who develop much are blue chips. At NDSU the last 3 years Sprenkle, Monk, Zillmer and their 74 from last year were all americans. Why do our notch or 2 below blue chips not develop into any all americans? Its sad but I think we will also have to pull freshman out of redshirts because we have a lot of disappointing wrestlers at this point of the year. That is my thought tonight.
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Just so everyone knows I am a fan of Chris Perry the wrestler and wish for freestyle the weight classes would have worked better for him. I would think he would be a good coach but I am not impressed with our upper weights development.
 
Some guys just simply don't make the adjustments in college.. Plus Schafer and Boyd were never expected to contribute much before coming to Stillwater. In my opinion, both have done more than I ever expected especially Nolan. On the bright side, future looks better with Andrew Marsden and Keegan Moore
 
We need to get Brock in there now. Really no point trying to preserve his shirt because we have a logjam at that weight with Fix on the horizon. Ive given up on Harding this year. . Im going to remain patient with Chance though until the scuffle. I liked what I saw from Moran while at Lindenwood and its encouraging to hear he did so well at the Bob Smith. Hes good on the mat and on his feet and might well be our future 149. He looks really young but he is tough and wrestles hard for 7 min. . That's an awesome group from Stillwater High. Id like to see Andrew stay at 197. Heck why not 184. He isn't tall enough to be 285.
 
Wheeling Cowboy said:
We need to get Brock in there now. Really no point trying to preserve his shirt because we have a logjam at that weight with Fix on the horizon. Ive given up on Harding this year. . Im going to remain patient with Chance though until the scuffle. I liked what I saw from Moran while at Lindenwood and its encouraging to hear he did so well at the Bob Smith. Hes good on the mat and on his feet and might well be our future 149. He looks really young but he is tough and wrestles hard for 7 min. . That's an awesome group from Stillwater High. Id like to see Andrew stay at 197. Heck why not 184. He isn't tall enough to be 285.
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Harding has been hurt for a while and won't get better by end of season, also a small 133. Even with that information we don't have the answer at 133 except pulling a shirt. The team as of now doesn't look really sharp for a tournament run but it is early in the season. Chance won't be the answer at 157/165 this or next year(only because of performance and I feel Chandler is better at 165). Team chemistry isn't good, cut the cancer (since I been scolded by many I'm putting a disclaimer that I'm not talking about Chance or Kyle) and move on. Crutchmer at 174 dogged it the whole match against a good 165 but he could of majored if he pushed the action (put C Rogers in until K Crutch gets on board with his coaches). We have seen a lot of that this season, you know the coaches are telling them to pick up the action, and they still don't. Don't want to say this, but has John lost control of some of his wrestlers? Don't care about the team title if our wrestlers wrestle the way they have, it's not the winning or losing, it's the effort of some! I travel 5 hours one way to watch a dual, I'm glad I missed the first two because of family matters because I'm not coming up to watch that effort by some of our wrestlers. Glad Flo has taken over on our duals because I'm staying home and saving 10 hours of my life not driving down the road for what I have seen. I will say this again, it is not the winning or losing but the effort and listening to their coaches that will keep me home. Sincerely "Missing Stillwater and Friends"!
 
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april racer said:
Obe, were you sitting in 213 in row 11?
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My seats for the last 20 years or more are in section 203, row 1 seats 3,4 and 9 although Togneto for the last 3 years has purchased the third seat from me. I was in seat 4 row 1 yesterday alongside my beautiful red haired daughter. It must have been another good looking guy in section 213.
 
mike tognetti said:
Harding has been hurt for a while and won't get better by end of season, also a small 133. Even with that information we don't have the answer at 133 except pulling a shirt. The team as of now doesn't look really sharp for a tournament run but it is early in the season. Chance won't be the answer at 157/165 this or next year. Team chemistry isn't good, cut the cancer and move on. Crutchmer at 174 dogged it the whole match against a good 165 but he could of majored if he pushed the action (put C Rogers in until K Crutch gets on board with his coaches). We have seen a lot of that this season, you know the coaches are telling them to pick up the action, and they still don't. Don't want to say this, but has John lost control of some of his wrestlers? Don't care about the team title if our wrestlers wrestle the way they have, it's not the winning or losing, it's the effort of some! I travel 5 hours one way to watch a dual, I'm glad I missed the first two because of family matters because I'm not coming up to watch that effort by some of our wrestlers. Glad Flo has taken over on our duals because I'm staying home and saving 10 hours of my life not driving down the road for what I have seen. I will say this again, it is not the winning or losing but the effort and listening to their coaches that will keep me home. Sincerely "Missing Stillwater and Friends"!
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We miss you Mike-do not get discouraged. The problems will be worked out. I do not believe we will pull anyone out of redshirt this year but after the scuffle I think you will see new faces in the lineup.
 
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Yesterday was really disappointing in several ways. Lack of effort from several of the guys, failure to respond to the coaches, etc. We had SIX matches where we did not score a takedown and another where the only takedown was in SV. That effort will not win a lot of duals, much less a NC. I do not go to the practices, so I don't know what is going on in the room, but it is apparent that something is not right. On the other hand, props to Coach P for doing a great job at NC State.
 
I enjoyed the marquee matchup at 141! Heil is better and you won't see the lapse in focus in March...he is a true contender!

Same with Klimara, I believe we see him Wrestle well when it actually matters.

Crutchmer is very methodical and he seems to be finding more offense. Maybe he isn't listening to coaches, but I can't help but think he will be fine. Boyd is maddening and I actually hate watching him Wrestle. He is like a baby Giraffe taking its first steps in too many positions. I am with Obe though and feel he is our best bet.

133, 157 and 197 are in danger of not having a rep for OSU at this point.

I am not sure what to think about Marstellar? He got taken down at least three times with the same takedown...which elite guys shouldn't do. Harding is hurt, but if he can get well, and goes to NYC, he will score a few points but isn't a danger to AA. 197, who knows?

If we Wrestled for 35 next weekend...

125 - AA
133 - 0
141 - Finalist
149 - Colic would AA if uninjured
157 - 0
165 - Champ
174 - AA
184 - a few points
197 - 0
HWT - possible AA

With that outcome, we are in the running but I doubt we see a Team Title. The unsettling feeling though is that I am not sure we AA at 33 or 57 if we pull shirts off. We would score some points, and with most likely 5-6 AA with two finalists, we could win it.
 
The early shot I saw chance take against Gant he didn't even commit to and backed out as quick as he got in to see his facial expression after that match is disheartening to me as a fan I have been hoping he can settle in at 157 and I think it's right to wait till the scuffle but I don't think he's the same wrestler here Tognetti I can't agree with you that he won't be a factor next year at 165

Mikey England was a very strong wrestler and was in the round of 12 last year

http://www.flowrestling.org/coverag...a-State-vs-Mike-England-Missouri#.VmW0DF88KnM

Ethan Ramos had some good wins before the national tournament one over sulzer and ended up taking 4th

http://www.flowrestling.org/coverag...Ethan-Ramos-vs-Chance-Marstellar#.VmW0R188KnM

And Palacio has beaten AA's and has been on the fringe himself

http://www.flowrestling.org/coverag...Ethan-Ramos-vs-Chance-Marstellar#.VmW0R188KnM

If he truly can't be effective here he should just go 165 and focus on getting better for next season it has to be extremely difficult to not break when you're going from a world beater to losing matches to guys who didn't have the type of results you did especially when all these boards are coming for this kids neck like coach smith said people need to let him breathe he's not the 1stblue chipper to falter early and he won't be the last
 
NYWRESTLER94 said:
The early shot I saw chance take against Gant he didn't even commit to and backed out as quick as he got in to see his facial expression after that match is disheartening to me as a fan I have been hoping he can settle in at 157 and I think it's right to wait till the scuffle but I don't think he's the same wrestler here Tognetti I can't agree with you that he won't be a factor next year at 165

Mikey England was a very strong wrestler and was in the round of 12 last year

http://www.flowrestling.org/coverag...a-State-vs-Mike-England-Missouri#.VmW0DF88KnM

Ethan Ramos had some good wins before the national tournament one over sulzer and ended up taking 4th

http://www.flowrestling.org/coverag...Ethan-Ramos-vs-Chance-Marstellar#.VmW0R188KnM

And Palacio has beaten AA's and has been on the fringe himself

http://www.flowrestling.org/coverag...Ethan-Ramos-vs-Chance-Marstellar#.VmW0R188KnM

If he truly can't be effective here he should just go 165 and focus on getting better for next season it has to be extremely difficult to not break when you're going from a world beater to losing matches to guys who didn't have the type of results you did especially when all these boards are coming for this kids neck like coach smith said people need to let him breathe he's not the 1stblue chipper to falter early and he won't be the last
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Just my opinion from watching Marsteller. He is not in shape, his confidence is shot, he barely makes it through matches where his activity level is non-existent and the matches you posted were all last year and do not reflect in any way his wrestling this year and I do not think his problem is all with the weight cut. I see no reason to believe he will be better at 165 next year and JMO he will not be at OSU next year. I do not think that is a news flash and there is a limit to John's patience and tolerance. Do the names Mike Benefiel and Alex Meade sound familiar. Both were top recruits who did not pan out and Marsteller I believe will join that list.
 
oberebo said:
We miss you Mike-do not get discouraged. The problems will be worked out. I do not believe we will pull anyone out of redshirt this year but after the scuffle I think you will see new faces in the lineup.
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I agree with you and hope we do keep these guys in RS as while I see them scoring points I don't see a sure fire AA (Smith with greatest possibility) which what I think it would take for us to win it all this year or pretty close. I do hope we see new faces and maybe Garcia and Blees can steadily improve.

I would only be discouraged if you are in the NCAA team title or bust crowd which may be a tad to much this year. We needed to see improvement at 184 and 157 and some semblance of hope at 197 to realistically win and I don't think we will get there.

Now I do think we will certainly make a push and with luck, injuries, etc it isn't nothing is set in stone. We could see three guys in the finals which gives any team a fighting chance.

Yesterday wasn't great but if AC wrestles and is healthy we win the dual.
 
oberebo said:
Just my opinion from watching Marsteller. He is not in shape, his confidence is shot, he barely makes it through matches where his activity level is non-existent and the matches you posted were all last year and do not reflect in any way his wrestling this year and I do not think his problem is all with the weight cut. I see no reason to believe he will be better at 165 next year and JMO he will not be at OSU next year. I do not think that is a news flash and there is a limit to John's patience and tolerance. Do the names Mike Benefiel and Alex Meade sound familiar. Both were top recruits who did not pan out and Marsteller I believe will join that list.
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I understand your point completely but just to elaborate on what I was saying I'll give you an example my senior year of high school one of my team mates who was a stand out at the time thought it would be in his best interest to win a sectional and state title if he dropped down to 106 for the season he always looked great and in shape every time I watched him wrestle when he was at his optimal weight and he had been dominating Piccinini at club practices the problem was when he did wrestle picc he was at his walk around weight we had a dual with Piccinini's team and their bout was the one of the night Picc completely destroyed him and he could barely walk off the mat he was so gassed fast forward a few months later after some more eye brow raising losses he moved back up to 113 and ended up being a sectional runner up losing a tight match in the finals here in ny unless you get a wc if you're not a sectional champ you don't go to states my point is big cuts can effect any wrestler and make them go from good to average or even mediocre you're not the 1st to say you think marstellar will be gone before his career is up but I have reason to believe he can still come back from this also Benefield wasn't doing to well in the classroom and Meade was removed from the team for behavioral reasons and never got it together after he was gone I don't think John is going to kick chance off the team because of his current performance
 
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NYWRESTLER94 said:
I understand your point completely but just to elaborate on what I was saying I'll give you an example my senior year of high school one of my team mates who was a stand out at the time thought it would be in his best interest to win a sectional and state title if he dropped down to 106 for the season he always looked great and in shape every time I watched him wrestle when he was at his optimal weight and he had been dominating Piccinini at club practices the problem was when he did wrestle picc he was at his walk around weight we had a dual with Piccinini's team and their bout was the one of the night Picc completely destroyed him and he could barely walk off the mat he was so gassed fast forward a few months later after some more eye brow raising losses he moved back up to 113 and ended up being a sectional runner up losing a tight match in the finals here in ny unless you get a wc if you're not a sectional champ you don't go to states my point is big cuts can effect any wrestler and make them go from good to average or even mediocre you're not the 1st to say you think marstellar will be gone before his career is up but I have reason to believe he can still come back from this also Benefield wasn't doing to well in the classroom and Meade was removed from the team for behavioral reasons and never got it together after he was gone I don't think John is going to kick chance off the team because of his current performance
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It will not be from performance that Chance will be kick off the team!
 
Wheeling Cowboy said:
and why wouldn't Chandler Rogers be a better option at 165 next year anyway. That guy has a lot of fight in him and is a blast to watch.
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I agree about Chandler Rogers but he has said that hedoes notdo well when he cuts weight. I can not see that it would be a big weight cut but we will see.
 
NYWRESTLER94 said:
Competing is a privilege I don't think Smith would send him out if he wasn't doing the right thing so what exactly are you talking about
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I've seen John send people out just to prove a point, here is one that happened on Sunday, Chance going out there when you know darn well John knew what the outcome would be. John and the coaches sees him everyday, did you think what happened was a surprise to them? Would Ryan Bless keep the match closer and maybe not a major, maybe. From what we have seen from Chance up to this point, would we have any different view on Sunday out come? John mentioned about the team unity and people stepping up, it's not all about wrestling John was talking about.
 
mike tognetti said:
I've seen John send people out just to prove a point, here is one that happened on Sunday, Chance going out there when you know darn well John knew what the outcome would be. John and the coaches sees him everyday, did you think what happened was a surprise to them? Would Ryan Bless keep the match closer and maybe not a major, maybe. From what we have seen from Chance up to this point, would we have any different view on Sunday out come? John mentioned about the team unity and people stepping up, it's not all about wrestling John was talking about.
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I actually do believe Blees would've got majored by Gant as well just not in the same fashion and I don't see how team unity and someone or some people stepping up has anything to do with an individual doing the right thing outside of wrestling but you're closer to the program then I am so I'm guessing you know there's a situation going on
 
After Chance's performance yesterday, I like my crow medium well with a raspberry sauce.......:(
 
mike tognetti said:
Sorry Poel, you have to eat it raw. Good to see you looking for your meal "Homer"! lol
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We got beat straight up but our stingers did well. I believe if Collica was in the lineup we win the dual but frankly this dual can help us to understand what needs to be done and also possibly encourage John to start looking at who we wrestle the second semester. Not giving away any inside info (which I do not possess anyway) but John did say to several of us in Vegas that he will "wrestle the best man eat each weight and if that means redshirts than he would do it. He indicated that this is the year we have a good chance to win. He said that no one's position is sacred. Obviously, a returning 2 X champion who is dominant has no worries. NYWrestler, you make a good point about weight and what it can do to you but if it was strictly a weight issue you would think he would have looked good in the first period of several of his matches and he has not. I believe there is a lot more than cutting weight issues. I do not pretend nor do I know what those issues are. A personal opinion is that when he got to the OSU room and was being beaten up by 4-5 different wrestlers he suffered from lack of confidence. If I can carry this supposition even further It is possible that he purposely is not working hard in the room or cutting the weight properly so he has an excuse. This is far out in left field and maybe not the situation at all but for whatever reason he is not performing like he did in high school. My opinion is that unless something changes he will not wrestle again this year and he will be hard pressed to win the 165 position next year. Whether that leaves to his leaving school or not is just speculative on my part. He is not the same wrestler he was in high school and that is apparent.
 
PURPOSELY not working hard?? that is crazy, if a combat athlete is getting beat by 4-5 wrestlers in the room, he works harder, at the team workout and on his own time Drilling, Lifting, Running etc.
If he does not SEEM like he is working hard it is because he is depleted, he needs to go to his fighting weight 165 or 174 and just have the attitude, no one gives him a chance against Deiringer or Krutchmer so he should try to prove them wrong (when someone tells you you can't do something, work like crazy to prove them wrong, even if you don't reach your goal you have the satisfaction you tried your best), and if he does not take their spot it increases his odds for next year, it helps being at full strength, concentrating on wrestling, not worrying about weight, though eating healthy and training like crazy, and that would set him up to be better for next year, he should be trying to be a wrestler, not an anorexic.
 
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I live in upstate NY, so have not been to dual this year, but watch them on line. The wrestler in the videos of Chance last year wrestling at 165 is not the same person we have seen this year. We can only speculate the reason, but I find it hard to believe he is not working hard in the room- if that was the case, i don't think John would put him on the mat. Three years ago there were many that felt Josh Kindig was not putting forth the effort to get to 141 when Oliver went up to 149 and chose to redshirt. Maybe we win if he can get down and be effective, but for what ever reason, he did not do it. He probably over achieved the following year making the finals at 149 as there were several upsets, but he wrestled well when the weight pull was not an issue.

If Chance can't be effective at 157, I think he should wrestle at 165 and hopefully regain confidence and we will see if he can be effective next year. I am not sure Blees does better and I don't know how Joe would do against the top competition. I am hoping it is the weight and he ends up as a multiple time AA and champion. There are many elite HS who don't transition at the next level, but missing on both Rogers and Marsteller is a disappointment.
 
He has known for a whole year that it was 157 or the bench. It didn't look like he prepared much before the season started. He's got about 3 weeks left to turn it around. Im praying for him to earn the position. I plan to go to the OU match this weekend. Perhaps there we will see some improvement.
Somebody who did prepare is Dean Heil. He wrestled a nice match against Jack. When was the last time one of our wrestlers beat a #1 in any poll?
Anyone remember his issues at 133 early last year? That is a distant memory. . He has to be very happy about his accomplishments so far.
 
Oberebo maybe I'm just watching different matches but at Iowa I thought he looks pretty good for most of the first even yesterday I thought he looked okay he didn't gas till late in the 1st which was once again blatant and against minny he did nothing in that match to try to conserve energy chandler Rogers is a very good wrestler but he didn't beat anyone significant in his redshirt year like chance did they also both wrestled at the scuffle where he didn't place and chance took 4th yes it was last year but it should still count for something he had to have tried to prepare for this cut but the reality is this most likely isn't his weight even look back to Colt sponseller when he tried to make 157 his senior year he was losing to guys he had no business losing to and then went back up to 165 and took 4th at nationals it's hard to improve when all you're focused on is dropping weight
 
djb914 said:
PURPOSELY not working hard?? that is crazy, if a combat athlete is getting beat by 4-5 wrestlers in the room, he works harder, at the team workout and on his own time Drilling, Lifting, Running etc.
If he does not SEEM like he is working hard it is because he is depleted, he needs to go to his fighting weight 165 or 174 and just have the attitude, no one gives him a chance against Deiringer or Krutchmer so he should try to prove them wrong (when someone tells you you can't do something, work like crazy to prove them wrong, even if you don't reach your goal you have the satisfaction you tried your best), and if he does not take their spot it increases his odds for next year, it helps being at full strength, concentrating on wrestling, not worrying about weight, though eating healthy and training like crazy, and that would set him up to be better for next year, he should be trying to be a wrestler, not an anorexic.
Click to expand...

Very well said.

If he was not working hard in the room there is no way John would not be sending him out to wrestle. I would say the coaches fell he is the best we currently have their at this time without pulling any redshirts.

And anybody saying John sent him out there just to prove a point is one of the stupidest things I have ever seen posted on this board. Why in the world would John do this and what purpose would it achieve?

Is it in the coaching staffs best interest to try to make their own wrestler look foolish and ruin their confidence, if anything you send the kid out there and hope he gets it going and it all clicks for him.

It is laughable always seeing people on here acting like they have all of this super top secret inside information, LOL is their a secret club of you that John has a phone conference with every day and tells you exactly what is happening in the program? If you look back the last few years you will find out that these prognosticators usually have no idea what they are talking about.

I say give the kid a chance and after the scuffle figure out what the best team we have is and put them on the mat and and try to go win #36.
 
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The one thing I did notice and even the FLO guys said it, John pretty much doesn't give you a choice to wrestle the way you would see fit. Example: B Crutchmer got taken down about 45 seconds into the match and was rode for the entire period. Then second period Crutchmer went down in the second......but he didn't want to, cause he knew he'd be ridden. John looked at him with this, I don't give a crap, you need to learn to get out look. I understand John's point of view, but in the middle of a match that might be the determining factor of the dual! I am not trying to second guess John's decision making process, he is a better coach than me, but I think I would have been like........CRAP, he's being ridden like a horse, start neutral. So does John try to make a point in the middle of a match or by sending out someone.......I think it's a possibility, one would assume the coaching staff wouldn't do that, but that might be a motivation tactic that he uses, the old "See, if you would listen to me, it works" line. Unfortunately from the outside looking in, it looks bad, like John doesn't know what he is doing. But rest assured people, he knows what he's doing. Everyone has that little coach inside telling them that's not the way I would do it, but there is a reason he is there and me or you. ~stepping down off the soap box

on a side note, I have fully embraced the "homer" title Mike
 
mike tognetti said:
It will not be from performance that Chance will be kick off the team!
Click to expand...
Mike - unlike you I don't frequent other boards to tweak the posters on it, but your lack of any compassion for Chance seems 180 degrees different than the crocodile tears you shed multiple times for Thomas Haines when Cael recruited Nick Nevills over him. I seem to remember you saying Cael was hurting his rep in Pennsylvania and other coaches would greatly benefit from Cael hosing a home state boy (and, then, a week later Cael lands Jason Nolf but I digress).

So Chance is a cancer now, huh. Nice.
 
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