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Thoughts on Trumps ban on Muslims entering US

OKSTATE1 said:
He is your President to, not just "our guy". He is President of the US. He is our guy for all of us, like it or not.

So is it an indirect assumption about your position is that you are the only one capable of being neutral? Where you so neutral you did not vote? If you did not vote how can you past judgment on those that nutted up and voted? If you voted for Johnson that was like abstaining from a role call vote, in which abstaining is a no vote. We had 2 real choices, not 3. Only way in this election to remain neutral was to not vote for any candidate at all and voting for Johnson was as good as not voting, some did that claiming the high road, but that was done by people incapable of making a choice on election day and then can sit back and criticize both sides despite having no back bone to making their vote count.

A bunch of Americans would have loved a true moderate choice from either party, one with some leanings both ways. The extreme left created Trump, he was needed to defeat the left. He was needed to move the country back to enforcing our laws and being a President for all people, not just the LGBT's and minorities. The extreme left has to be crushed before we can become a more moderate country.
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So much stupidity here.

He's the President.....so I'm required to support and cheer every action he takes....bs.

Two real choices? Take that and stick it in whatever hole you choose.

Once you choose to go authoritarian....either left or right....you never come back to a more moderate country.
 
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HighStickHarry said:
Cowpoke said:
Maybe he should get his bearings before signing a bunch of EO's? Maybe have a plan for those trying to enforce them before doing it?
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On the surface this looks clumsy. I'm
Not going to fault him in this hysterical moment.

People are being evaluated case by case right now. They will be in their mosques cussing Jews in no time don't worry.
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Hysterical moment? The hysterical moment was caused by him. It's not like there was some emergency, immediate need for this order, that didn't allow for a few days of planning.

This is the crux of why so many are extremely worried about him being president. We've seen nothing but a "hold me beer" approach from him since the start of his campaign.
 
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CowboyJD said:
So much stupidity here.

He's the President.....so I'm required to support and cheer every action he takes....bs.

Two real choices? Take that and stick it in whatever hole you choose.

Once you choose to go authoritarian....either left or right....you never come back to a more moderate country.
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Nah eventually the extremes are going to go TOO extreme and some common sense will prevail. Eventually enough sane people will get tired of having Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho tell us that plants crave electrolytes and we'll find some Joe Bauers.
 
Cowpoke said:
Hysterical moment? The hysterical moment was caused by him. It's not like there was some emergency, immediate need for this order, that didn't allow for a few days of planning.

This is the crux of why so many are extremely worried about him being president. We've seen nothing but a "hold me beer" approach from him since the start of his campaign.
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Actually not. It was actually caused by murdering hordes of Muslims. Trump is reacting not causing. If you punch a hells angel in the face you don't get to dictate his reaction.
 
CowboyJD said:
Why weren't immigration and visa holders from Saudi Arabia temporarily banned?
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Because they have stuffed too much money into the pockets of the left and the right to be seen for what they really are. Money makes people very attractive to gold diggers.
 
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Medic007 said:
Because they have stuffed too much money into the pockets of the left and the right to be seen for what they really are. Money makes people very attractive to gold diggers.
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Thank you....that makes me feel so much better about how much this EO is actually going to do to make us safer.
 
HighStickHarry said:
Actually not. It was actually caused by murdering hordes of Muslims. Trump is reacting not causing. If you punch a hells angel in the face you don't get to dictate his reaction.
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Right.... I mean its been 5,619 days since 9/11, but it couldn't have waited 3 or 4 more for them to get their ducks in a row.
 
CowboyJD said:
Why weren't immigration and visa holders from Saudi Arabia temporarily banned?

Saudi Arabian terrorists have racked up the highest death count of Americans of any other Middle Eastern country.
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Because those were the countries identified by the Obama administration. Saudi wasn't among the list.
 
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CowboyJD said:
Thank you....that makes me feel so much better about how much this EO is actually going to do to make us safer.
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It's troubling that they weren't included in the EO. I'm afraid we need keep those dicks close because of the saber rattling by Iran.

I wonder if it's a logistical military need for ISIS operations?
 
Ostatedchi said:
Because those were the countries identified by the Obama administration. Saudi wasn't among the list.
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So Trump is just following Obama's leave?

It's Obama's fault?

C'mon Vic....you're better than that.
 
Cowpoke said:
Right.... I mean its been 5,619 days since 9/11, but it couldn't have waited 3 or 4 more for them to get their ducks in a row.
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Should we've alerted all the bad guys as to the dates we were going to make it harder for them to get here?
 
Alpha Poke said:
It's troubling that they weren't included in the EO. I'm afraid we need keep those dicks close because of the saber rattling by Iran.

I wonder if it's a logistical military need for ISIS operations?
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Some radical anti-Trumpies are pointing out his business dealings in SA and Egypt as the reason.

I don't buy that.

I think Medic and UK are more accurate....it's about money and influence...not safety and security....and that bothers the hell out of me.
 
Alpha Poke said:
Should we've alerted all the bad guys as to the dates we were going to make it harder for them to get here?
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We're any of those bad guys not already within 90 days of acceptance through the approval process going to be able to expedite their visa application?
 
Cowpoke said:
Right.... I mean its been 5,619 days since 9/11, but it couldn't have waited 3 or 4 more for them to get their ducks in a row.
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9/11 is nothing but an exciting chapter in the book written between Islam and the west.

I'm with you in that this is clumsy but that's as far as my outrage goes. It's 2016 and radical Islamic terrorists need to be dealt with in the macro so we can get on with our vision of world peace and harmony. These are not the last avacadoes that are going to get bruised. If someone could just sit back and realize being detained at JFK is NOTHING compared to what is going on in the caliphate we might come together and figure out what the hell is going on. Drink your free water and eat your box sandwich with lays
Chips and a Saran wrapped cookie, answer the questions and get on with your life.
 
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CowboyJD said:
So Trump is just following Obama's leave?

It's Obama's fault?

C'mon Vic....you're better than that.
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You asked why. That's why. Right or wrong. Trump just reused an existing law and Obama's use of it. If he were to arbitrary add countries to the list, then he might be overstepping his constitutional bounds. It would be debatable.

These seven countries are listed under section 217(a)(12) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1187(a)(12) of the U.S. code, and it is this code that Trump’s executive order cited while banning citizens of those nations.

Sounds like a president trying to be constitutional to me. wink.gif
 
Oh, lord.

Okay then....was Trump right or wrong to just follow Obama's lead and not add the country that is the greatest source of dead Americans at the hands of Muslim terrorists than any other?
 
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CowboyJD said:
We're any of those bad guys not already within 90 days of acceptance through the approval process going to be able to expedite their visa application?
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I don't think there was any way to package this action without offending someone. I also think it needed to be done.

I like ever EO he's issued. They'll all be beneficial to Americans.

Ultimately, it his responsibility to protect us and I don't see how this doesn't go towards accomplishing that burden.
 
Alpha Poke said:
I don't think there was any way to package this action without offending someone. I also think it needed to be done.

I like ever EO he's issued. They'll all be beneficial to Americans.

Ultimately, it his responsibility to protect us and I don't see how this doesn't go towards accomplishing that burden.
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So is that a no.....bad guys wouldn't have been able to expedite entry if the 90 day review process had just been announced without the complete suspension?

I'm not clear how what you posted is responsive to my question.
 
HighStickHarry said:
Cowpoke said:
Right.... I mean its been 5,619 days since 9/11, but it couldn't have waited 3 or 4 more for them to get their ducks in a row.
Click to expand...


9/11 is nothing but an exciting chapter in the book written between Islam and the west.

I'm with you in that this is clumsy but that's as far as my outrage goes. It's 2016 and radical Islamic terrorists need to be dealt with in the macro so we can get on with our vision of world peace and harmony. These are not the last avacadoes that are going to get bruised. If someone could just sit back and realize being detained at JFK is NOTHING compared to what is going on in the caliphate we might come together and figure out what the hell is going on. Drink your free water and eat your box sandwich with lays
Chips and a Saran wrapped cookie, answer the questions and get on with your life.
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But none of that excuses the poor planning. This could have EASILY done this in a way that doesn't strand a bunch of people, flirt with constitutional violations, require a judge to step in to try to clean some of it up.

This means one of two things. Either they are poorly organized and in too much of a hurry....Or are flying a huge middle finger to all Muslims. Both of those are really disturbing.
 
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I thought that was exactly the action it was supposed to prevent given the flow of radicals out of the Syrian theatre right now.
 
CowboyJD said:
Oh, lord.

Okay then....was Trump right or wrong to just follow Obama's lead and not add the country that is the greatest source of dead Americans at the hands of Muslim terrorists than any other?
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I really don't know the answer to that question. I don't know of too many refugees from Saudi. And I don't know the legalities of modifying the list.

If he had the latitude then he probably should have added Saudi. And possibly others.
 
Ostatedchi said:
I really don't know the answer to that question. I don't know of too many refugees from Saudi. And I don't know the legalities of modifying the list.

If he had the latitude then he probably should have added Saudi. And possibly others.
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Fair enough. EO applies to immigration from the enumerated countries as well as refugees though.
 
CowboyJD said:
Why weren't immigration and visa holders from Saudi Arabia temporarily banned?

Saudi Arabian terrorists have racked up the highest death count of Americans of any other Middle Eastern country.
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I posted an interesting story last night - no idea how valid the thought is, but those 7 countries - according to the story - represent the likely destination of soon to be homeless ISIS survivors.

I have no idea if true, but I doubt this happens without the input of Mattis and Pompeo - at least I hope not.
 
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CowboyJD said:
WTF are you talking about?

Indonesians weren't banned....and I expressly said it wasn't a Muslim ban and expressly said it only applied to five specific countries.

You didn't mentioned the Middle Eastern countries it doesn't apply to that have clearly had citizens commit attacks against the US for some reason either.
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Your normal sharp debating skills have taken a temporary leave of absence. I'll explain later if I feel like it but likely not.
 
Here is number 8 U.S. Code 1182, inadmissible aliens. This law was written in 1952. It was passed by a Democrat-controlled Congress, House and Senate, and signed by a Democrat president.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1182


jqpayuqvdocy.jpg
 
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MegaPoke said:
I posted an interesting story last night - no idea how valid the thought is, but those 7 countries - according to the story - represent the likely destination of soon to be homeless ISIS survivors.

I have no idea if true, but I doubt this happens without the input of Mattis and Pompeo - at least I hope not.
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If it did, would that change your opinion as to the advisability of the EO?
 
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