The Only Israeli Opposed To A Ceasefire

[Ponca Dan]

Is the one who will be carted off to prison if there is a ceasefire. What a compassionate patriot!

Israeli Generals Want Truce in Gaza, Putting Them at Odds With Netanyahu - News From Antiwar.com

Israel's top generals want a ceasefire in Gaza even if it keeps Hamas in power, putting them at odds with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, The New York Times reported on Wednesday. The report, which cited current and former security officials, said one reason Israel's top brass favored...

news.antiwar.com

‘Ceasefire Now’ - Israeli Generals Reveal Extent of Army Crisis in Gaza

Israel’s top generals are advocating for a ceasefire in Gaza, even if it means the Palestinian movement Hamas remains in power.

www.palestinechronicle.com

 

[soonerinlOUisiana]

lol. A “ceasefire” with the terrorstinians s not possible, as we saw on 10/7, and countless times prior to that.

 

[Ponca Dan]

lol. A “ceasefire” with the terrorstinians s not possible, as we saw on 10/7, and countless times prior to that.

You should call the top Israeli military leadership and tell them what a mistake they are making, Netanyahu knows best.

 

[soonerinlOUisiana]

You should call the top Israeli military leadership and tell them what a mistake they are making, Netanyahu knows best.

Have you called Netanyahu and told him to stop gEnOcIdInG?

 

[Ponca Dan]

Have you called Netanyahu and told him to stop gEnOcIdInG?

Yes, on a direct line. He ignores me just like he ignores his top military brass. The man will do anything, kill "as many as it takes" to stay out of prison.

 

[2012Bearcat]

lol. A “ceasefire” with the terrorstinians s not possible, as we saw on 10/7, and countless times prior to that.

Dan's idea of a ceasefire is Israel lays down it's arms and allows the Palestinians to kill all the Jews.

 

[soonerinlOUisiana]

Dan's idea of a ceasefire is Israel lays down it's arms and allows the Palestinians to kill all the Jews.

Or as Limbaugh used to say, “ceasefire” for moslems only means “we’ll kill you later”.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Dan's idea of a ceasefire is Israel lays down it's arms and allows the Palestinians to kill all the Jews.

Setting aside your attempt to deflect, I wonder if you would ruminate on what is the Israeli military brass's idea of a ceasefire.

 

[Tulsaaggieson]

Is the one who will be carted off to prison if there is a ceasefire. What a compassionate patriot!

Israeli Generals Want Truce in Gaza, Putting Them at Odds With Netanyahu - News From Antiwar.com

Israel's top generals want a ceasefire in Gaza even if it keeps Hamas in power, putting them at odds with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, The New York Times reported on Wednesday. The report, which cited current and former security officials, said one reason Israel's top brass favored...

news.antiwar.com

‘Ceasefire Now’ - Israeli Generals Reveal Extent of Army Crisis in Gaza

Israel’s top generals are advocating for a ceasefire in Gaza, even if it means the Palestinian movement Hamas remains in power.

www.palestinechronicle.com

Four senior Israeli officials who spoke with the Times agreed that a hostage deal that keeps Hamas in power for now is the least worst option for Israel at the moment. Hulata also made clear that the Israeli military’s thinking is for a temporary ceasefire, not the permanent truce that Hamas has been seeking.

“They believe that they can always go back and engage Hamas militarily in the future,” Hulata said.

 

[Ostatedchi]

Four senior Israeli officials who spoke with the Times agreed that a hostage deal that keeps Hamas in power for now is the least worst option for Israel at the moment. Hulata also made clear that the Israeli military’s thinking is for a temporary ceasefire, not the permanent truce that Hamas has been seeking.

“They believe that they can always go back and engage Hamas militarily in the future,” Hulata said.

There's also a bit of tactical advantage to allow your enemy to regroup. Right now they are scattered and hunting them is all one off efforts. Have a temporary ceasefire and allow them to coalesce; then, take them out in larger groups.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Four senior Israeli officials who spoke with the Times agreed that a hostage deal that keeps Hamas in power for now is the least worst option for Israel at the moment. Hulata also made clear that the Israeli military’s thinking is for a temporary ceasefire, not the permanent truce that Hamas has been seeking.

“They believe that they can always go back and engage Hamas militarily in the future,” Hulata said.

Exactly. What happens to Netanyahu when the temporary ceasefire takes place? What happens if negotiations during the ceasefire bring all the hostages home and the ceasefire is extended or becomes permanent? I think Bibi has visions of himself wearing an orange jumpsuit and that is why he balks against a ceasefire of any kind. Kill "as many as it takes" to keep that from happening.

 

[Ponca Dan]

There's also a bit of tactical advantage to allow your enemy to regroup. Right now they are scattered and hunting them is all one off efforts. Have a temporary ceasefire and allow them to coalesce; then, take them out in larger groups.

Exactly. So why does Netanyahu resist?

 

[2012Bearcat]

Setting aside your attempt to deflect, I wonder if you would ruminate on what is the Israeli military brass's idea of a ceasefire.

The status quo with Hamas. The Israeli military has a Hezbollah problem to deal with now and they are much stronger than Hamas and maybe Israel. Sorry world affairs and geo politics is hard for you. Not to mention we have a unreliable potato in the White House. He's more worried about his Presidency and Democrats are more worried about their hold on power than all the world problems they have caused.

 

[Ostatedchi]

Exactly. So why does Netanyahu resist?

There's a huge difference in a temporary vs. Permanent ceasefire agreement.

 

[Tulsaaggieson]

There's also a bit of tactical advantage to allow your enemy to regroup. Right now they are scattered and hunting them is all one off efforts. Have a temporary ceasefire and allow them to coalesce; then, take them out in larger groups.

Tacticaly sound thinking. You still have Hezbula in the North. He could shift operations to the north and maintain your war cabinet. You have to get hostages though for any cease fire deal.

 

[Ponca Dan]

There's a huge difference in a temporary vs. Permanent ceasefire agreement.

I agree with your assessment of a potential tactical advantage for a temporary ceasefire. It makes perfect sense, and it could lead to a permanent ceasefire or return of the hostages or both, not to mention the saving of soldiers’ lives in protracted battle, something military personnel understand very well but lifetime power hungry politicians like Netanyahu have no concern (they’re just pawns to move around the board). Netanyahu has shown no real desire to get the hostages back or to stop the fighting, I think because his only concern is saving his own skin.

 

[Tulsaaggieson]

Exactly. What happens to Netanyahu when the temporary ceasefire takes place? What happens if negotiations during the ceasefire bring all the hostages home and the ceasefire is extended or becomes permanent? I think Bibi has visions of himself wearing an orange jumpsuit and that is why he balks against a ceasefire of any kind. Kill "as many as it takes" to keep that from happening.

There is most likely going to be a second phase with Hezbola in the North. I don't think Bibi is worried about an orange jump suit but does worry about control of the government.

 

[Ponca Dan]

The status quo with Hamas. The Israeli military has a Hezbollah problem to deal with now and they are much stronger than Hamas and maybe Israel. Sorry world affairs and geo politics is hard for you. Not to mention we have a unreliable potato in the White House. He's more worried about his Presidency and Democrats are more worried about their hold on power than all the world problems they have caused.

Hezbollah has made it clear they’re only in the fight as solidarity with Hamas. A ceasefire with Hamas would immediately cool down the fight between them and Israel. The military brass recognizes that fact and views it as a good thing. But Netanyahu does not, he’s doing everything he can to make war with Hezbollah happen. I think it’s because he knows what will be his personal fate if the fighting ends, and he values his personal freedom much more than the lives of his own people.

 

[Ponca Dan]

There is most likely going to be a second phase with Hezbola in the North. I don't think Bibi is worried about an orange jump suit but does worry about control of the government.

You may be right, but it is equally possible his fear of an orange jumpsuit is greater than any concern about the lives or well being of his own soldiers or citizens. Israel would probably “win” a war with Hezbollah, but it would come at a price most Israelis would not want to pay. And it’s possible Israel would not win such a war. The IDF has been shown by Hamas that it is not the same juggernaut it was in 1967. IMO the man is evil on a par with Hillary Clinton.

 

[Tulsaaggieson]

You may be right, but it is equally possible his fear of an orange jumpsuit is greater than any concern about the lives or well being of his own soldiers or citizens. Israel would probably “win” a war with Hezbollah, but it would come at a price most Israelis would not want to pay. And it’s possible Israel would not win such a war. The IDF has been shown by Hamas that it is not the same juggernaut it was in 1967. IMO the man is evil on a par with Hillary Clinton.

The war in the North is more suited to the IDF's strengths. No military is going to walk out of Gaza without casualties. The US included. The fighting there is the worst kind of fighting to have to execute on. It's a nightmare, and not one I wish on anyone. The IDF has performed well given the environment and timetables.

 

[Ponca Dan]

The war in the North is more suited to the IDF's strengths. No military is going to walk out of Gaza without casualties. The US included. The fighting there is the worst kind of fighting to have to execute on. It's a nightmare, and not one I wish on anyone. The IDF has performed well given the environment and timetables.

I’m not thinking of IDF casualties as much as 100,000 rockets and missiles and drones launching on Israel proper, although the military casualties will be in numbers Israel has never experienced. Israel is by no measure guaranteed to survive even if Lebanon is destroyed with it. Netanyahu is making a major miscalculation, the US will not be able to prevent the damage his foolishness will wreak on his countrymen. I disagree with you regarding the IDF’s performance in Gaza. It has not approached a single objective against a seriously inferior opponent and we’re roughly 9 months in. I bet they are as shocked by the resourcefulness and resilience of Hamas and the Gazans as Russia was in the opening salvos of the proxy war.

 

[OUSOONER67]

Light em up Israel.

 

[Tulsaaggieson]

I’m not thinking of IDF casualties as much as 100,000 rockets and missiles and drones launching on Israel proper, although the military casualties will be in numbers Israel has never experienced. Israel is by no measure guaranteed to survive even if Lebanon is destroyed with it. Netanyahu is making a major miscalculation, the US will not be able to prevent the damage his foolishness will wreak on his countrymen. I disagree with you regarding the IDF’s performance in Gaza. It has not approached a single objective against a seriously inferior opponent and we’re roughly 9 months in. I bet they are as shocked by the resourcefulness and resilience of Hamas and the Gazans as Russia was in the opening salvos of the proxy war.

Not shocked at all. I have said they will have difficulty getting Hamas out. Urban warfare is tricky no matter what you bring to the table. It's an equalizer and Hamas knows it. In fact they have purposely used it. How many times has everyone here told you Hamas uses civilians as shields?

 

[Ponca Dan]

Not shocked at all. I have said they will have difficulty getting Hamas out. Urban warfare is tricky no matter what you bring to the table. It's an equalizer and Hamas knows it. In fact they have purposely used it. How many times has everyone here told you Hamas uses civilians as shields?

We’ll just have to disagree about that. The IDF has shown to be much less the powerhouse they want the world to believe they are. They have literally flattened Gaza City and yet they still can’t chase Hamas out. They’ve killed about as many hostages as they’ve saved. Their version of Shock and Awe has been mysteriously ineffective, and now the Israeli population is showing signs of war fatigue. Even their top military brass admits they can’t destroy Hamas. They’re looking for a way to claim victory and get the hell out. The stumbling block is Bibi Netanyahu.

 

[Tulsaaggieson]

We’ll just have to disagree about that. The IDF has shown to be much less the powerhouse they want the world to believe they are. They have literally flattened Gaza City and yet they still can’t chase Hamas out. They’ve killed about as many hostages as they’ve saved. Their version of Shock and Awe has been mysteriously ineffective, and now the Israeli population is showing signs of war fatigue. Even their top military brass admits they can’t destroy Hamas. They’re looking for a way to claim victory and get the hell out. The stumbling block is Bibi Netanyahu.

You say flatten. I would not articulate it that way. They have created landscape where soldiers can be 10 ft from each other and both would not they are there. I would describe it more as a shell. There are hiding holes everywhere. Ask the Germans what fighting in Stalingrade was like and you will get a sense of it. Hamas can use the landscape to turn everything to thier advantage and eliminate any kind of tech advantages the IDF has. Throw in pressure from the US to go slow and you get the perfect killing field for any insurgent group. The easiest way to defeat Hamas would be to have every citizen removed and then kill anything left that pokes it head up. That would be a political nightmare for the US in an election year.

So I get why the generals want a temp ceasefire. The IDF needs to regroup as well, and reassess the situation. However, I would not agree to any cease fire until the rest of the hostages are released. That's the bargaining chip. Hostages for a cease fire.

 

[JimmyBob]

Exactly. So why does Netanyahu resist?

Fear and common sense.

 

[Ponca Dan]

You say flatten. I would not articulate it that way. They have created landscape where soldiers can be 10 ft from each other and both would not they are there. I would describe it more as a shell. There are hiding holes everywhere. Ask the Germans what fighting in Stalingrade was like and you will get a sense of it. Hamas can use the landscape to turn everything to thier advantage and eliminate any kind of tech advantages the IDF has. Throw in pressure from the US to go slow and you get the perfect killing field for any insurgent group. The easiest way to defeat Hamas would be to have every citizen removed and then kill anything left that pokes it head up. That would be a political nightmare for the US in an election year.

So I get why the generals want a temp ceasefire. The IDF needs to regroup as well, and reassess the situation. However, I would not agree to any cease fire until the rest of the hostages are released. That's the bargaining chip. Hostages for a cease fire.

Your argument strengthens my argument that the IDF is a mere shell of what it once was. Were they really so stupid they didn’t know what their foot soldiers would face once Gaza City was flattened and they were sent in to mop up? Or were they so stupidly arrogant they thought this would be 1967 all over again? In either case they behaved militarily stupid, and to top it off they have made Israel a pariah state in the eyes of most of the world.

 

[Tulsaaggieson]

Your argument strengthens my argument that the IDF is a mere shell of what it once was. Were they really so stupid they didn’t know what their foot soldiers would face once Gaza City was flattened and they were sent in to mop up? Or were they so stupidly arrogant they thought this would be 1967 all over again? In either case they behaved militarily stupid, and to top it off they have made Israel a pariah state in the eyes of most of the world.

They behaved exactly how I would expect them to. It is impossible to send an army into a city to take out a hidden isurgency without destroying it in the process. I think they knew exactly what they were doing and it's sound tactics learned over the coarse of the last 40 years.

 

[Ponca Dan]

They behaved exactly how I would expect them to. It is impossible to send an army into a city to take out a hidden isurgency without destroying it in the process. I think they knew exactly what they were doing and it's sound tactics learned over the coarse of the last 40 years.

It is exactly what they have done for their entire existence, something they could not do without superpower backing. And it has gotten them nowhere, and it may be the cause of their demise. It was utterly stupid and completely expected.

 

[Tulsaaggieson]

It is exactly what they have done for their entire existence, something they could not do without superpower backing. And it has gotten them nowhere, and it may be the cause of their demise. It was utterly stupid and completely expected.

They need those bigger bunker busters that Biden withheld. If they won't come up, bury them is thier holes. Biden won't give them the tools they need to finish the job.

 

[Marocain Poke]

They need those bigger bunker busters that Biden withheld. If they won't come up, bury them is thier holes. Biden won't give them the tools they need to finish the job.

His cabal of far-left, pro-Hamas Gen Z handlers won't allow it.