It sure looks to me like he is reaching in the car. If so, why wouldn't they shoot?
Terence Crutcher killed in Tulsa; officer charged
- Thread starter tlwwake
- Start date
Stopping in the middle of the road => odd driving behavior
Having multiple cop cars and a helicopter show up at the scene of an auto just having problems => not likely
The guy choosing to walk back to his vehicle => not smart
One side note, which is somewhat insider info: TPD actively tries to keep certain demographics from flunking out of their academy in an effort to be inclusive (read: "Politically Correct"). This could be an indirect impact of that policy, which resulted in a person who has no business being a cop, ending up in a high stress policing situation.
Having multiple cop cars and a helicopter show up at the scene of an auto just having problems => not likely
The guy choosing to walk back to his vehicle => not smart
One side note, which is somewhat insider info: TPD actively tries to keep certain demographics from flunking out of their academy in an effort to be inclusive (read: "Politically Correct"). This could be an indirect impact of that policy, which resulted in a person who has no business being a cop, ending up in a high stress policing situation.
Shelby's attorney should be keeping his damn mouth shut right now. If he is going to issue any statement at all, it should only be that she will cooperate fully with the outside investigation and any other investigations that are conducted and that he won't be trying his client in the media.
I spoke to a sheriff after the guy in Tulsa said he thought he pulled the taser instead of the gun and killed a guy. He said there is no way to confuse the 2. Completely different devices and intended to be made that way so you don't confuse one with the other. She was a little too hyped up but it doesn't look good. The guy was complying just not 100%. I've never been threatened like that so hard to say what should, could happen. The guy looked to be f**c*ed up so reaching into your car would probably make you do something to prevent harm to yourself. Tough situation. It's not a slam dunk case either way.
Which is an infinitely more defensible use of force than this appears to be.
I just have a bad feeling about this - it's time in the narrative for another BLM riot and the people who are funding BLM are also invested in this election - which needs a fresh reminder of how oppressive this country is to minorities. None of it has a damned thing to do with this poor guy who is dead. But he is a convenient spark for another flashpoint. Hope I'm wrong.
I have to be honest - I hate this line of thought. In some cases, obviously yes - drop the gun. don't reach for something that looks like a gun etc. But in other cases like this appears to be, it's more like saying the dress was too short and you should've kept your knees closed (to avoid rape). If the guy is under the influence, cops should've been well trained enough to deal with that.
Now, I'll say this - I see absolutely no intelligent way to argue racism - but it looks exactly like a shitty, trigger happy cop who should've been behind a desk instead of a gun*
* from my limited observation of the event.
How many shots were fired and where did they strike? If there is a baseball sized hole in that man's skull? Did the shot take out his heart? That's not the sort of injury that the average cop with a first aid kit full of band aids is going to be able to fix.
More info needed.
I understand your point and I'm not defending the gunshot. Taser seemed like a good idea. Too bad that's not all that happened.
Helicopter video makes me think he was reaching into his vehicle, but it is hard to tell.
I have to disagree. He's walking away from the cop and looks to be reaching into the car - that's not analogous to "short skirt, deserved rape."
Did she draw the gun when first dealing with the suspect? Would it be appropriate to the holster the gun and grab a stun gun? Lots of questions. And, this guy was a big dude. This woman couldn't have taken him alone and I wonder if she could have taken him with the other cop's help. This happened pretty fast.
I do agree it's not a racism thing.
Apparently just one shot. From the helicopter video, that shot must have been on the money. More blood from that one shot than you normally see in these incidents with multiple shots.
I disagree mega. Generally of course, not in this instance as the victim nor the cop look like my son so I will let the evidence play out.
A short skirt doesn't make one deserve or call for rape. But a short skirt on a voluntarily drunk chick at two in the morning has said she is ok with the increased statistical chance she will be assaulted. If she was at home asleep the chances plummet.
If you get ****ed up its your choice. If you reach in your vehicle it's your choice. If you walk when a cop says stop its your choice. You can't put yourself in a statistically increased situation of tragedy and whine about it. Sure the cops are wrong sometimes and they need sensitivity training and certificates showing they acknowledge the disproportionate poverty of minorities, Yada Yada but on the micro go to work, stay sober take care of your kids.
If this guy was sober, complying during a vehicle breakdown on his way home from school then string those cops up. We will see.
A short skirt doesn't make one deserve or call for rape. But a short skirt on a voluntarily drunk chick at two in the morning has said she is ok with the increased statistical chance she will be assaulted. If she was at home asleep the chances plummet.
If you get ****ed up its your choice. If you reach in your vehicle it's your choice. If you walk when a cop says stop its your choice. You can't put yourself in a statistically increased situation of tragedy and whine about it. Sure the cops are wrong sometimes and they need sensitivity training and certificates showing they acknowledge the disproportionate poverty of minorities, Yada Yada but on the micro go to work, stay sober take care of your kids.
If this guy was sober, complying during a vehicle breakdown on his way home from school then string those cops up. We will see.
The fact that she stepped to the right, to be more concealed by the vehicle, before firing. Makes me think that she at least thought he was grabbing a weapon.
I think it is obvious that she thought he reached for a gun or she wouldn't have shot him.
That was the impression I got. In now way should you do something like that in a tense situation...let alone with police apparently guns drawn. It is a sad situation that will inevitably throw more fuel on the racism and police brutality agendas. If he truly was innocently killed, heads should roll. If evidence and testimony show he acted poorly, then well crap happens. Praying for all those involved.
Not a good sign. I noticed from the dashboard camera that this man did not move once he hit the ground. Again, not good.
The fact only one cop fired tells me that a cop over reacted and killed a guy. They were point blank and could of easily done something different.
Cops encounter messed up people all the time and even if they resist they are taken into custody not shot.
Cops encounter messed up people all the time and even if they resist they are taken into custody not shot.
Resisting arrest and not knowing if a suspect is reaching for a weapon are not the same thing.
Kind of funny since just yesterday she was responding to Trump calling the NJ explosion a bomb by saying that we should wait for facts to come out before saying that it was a bomb
And so the circus begins.
The Race Pimp Cometh...
http://www.fox23.com/news/rev-al-sh...ily/448047091?ecmp=kokitv_social_facebook_sfp
The Race Pimp Cometh...
http://www.fox23.com/news/rev-al-sh...ily/448047091?ecmp=kokitv_social_facebook_sfp
I went back and watched the videos. It appears he is reaching into the car or his pants.
From KFOR
"The public information officer suggested that the officer shot Terence Crutcher because he reached inside the car," said attorney Benjamin Crump.
But, Crump showed enhanced photos from the video of the shooting, saying it shows the driver side window is up and Crutcher's blood is even smeared on it.
"So, how could he be reaching into the car if the window is up and there is blood on the glass?" Crump said.
Crump is a well known attorney out of Florida who has represented families of other people involved in police shootings, including Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown.
The Tulsa Police Department confirmed, on Tuesday, PCP was found inside Crutcher's vehicle.
His attorneys said they do not yet know if he had drugs in his system, but they said it doesn't matter.
"Don't put out stuff that would demonize him," Crump said. "Let us not be thrown a red herring and to say because something was found in the car that was justification to shoot him."
"The public information officer suggested that the officer shot Terence Crutcher because he reached inside the car," said attorney Benjamin Crump.
But, Crump showed enhanced photos from the video of the shooting, saying it shows the driver side window is up and Crutcher's blood is even smeared on it.
"So, how could he be reaching into the car if the window is up and there is blood on the glass?" Crump said.
Crump is a well known attorney out of Florida who has represented families of other people involved in police shootings, including Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown.
The Tulsa Police Department confirmed, on Tuesday, PCP was found inside Crutcher's vehicle.
His attorneys said they do not yet know if he had drugs in his system, but they said it doesn't matter.
"Don't put out stuff that would demonize him," Crump said. "Let us not be thrown a red herring and to say because something was found in the car that was justification to shoot him."
All I'll say is this - not complying with an order from a police officer is a bad idea, but it shouldn't be an automatic death sentence right then and there.
Last year I was flying back from Chicago and going through security at Midway. The checkpoint ran out of those wonderful little gray tubs and a couple of us were trying to get someone's attention. Over comes the loudest, shrillest TSA agent yelling "PUTYOURSTUFFINTHETUBSANDKEEPMOVING" and gesturing wildly.
"Ma'am, there's no more
"PUTYOURSTUFFINTHETUBSANDKEEPMOVING".
"Ma'am, there's
"ISAIDPUTYOURSTUFFINTHETUBSANDKEEPMOVING".
"Listen, there's..."
"DIDYOUHEARME? YOU NEED TO FOLLOW MY INSTRUCTIONS NOW".
At that point, my inclination (and the 5-10 people around me) was to back up because this @#$@#$ TSA agent was out of her #@$@#$ mind screaming and gesturing while walking towards us. Thankfully, another agent came by with a cart full of tubs at that point and things went back to normal with another "PUTYOURSTUFFINTHETUBSANDKEEPMOVING" scream.
Sometimes, you're trying to comply but the person in authority is a moron, an asshat, something worse, or just doesn't know what the heck is going on. Did that happen in Tulsa? Who knows, but it doesn't matter to the people with agendas.
Last year I was flying back from Chicago and going through security at Midway. The checkpoint ran out of those wonderful little gray tubs and a couple of us were trying to get someone's attention. Over comes the loudest, shrillest TSA agent yelling "PUTYOURSTUFFINTHETUBSANDKEEPMOVING" and gesturing wildly.
"Ma'am, there's no more
"PUTYOURSTUFFINTHETUBSANDKEEPMOVING".
"Ma'am, there's
"ISAIDPUTYOURSTUFFINTHETUBSANDKEEPMOVING".
"Listen, there's..."
"DIDYOUHEARME? YOU NEED TO FOLLOW MY INSTRUCTIONS NOW".
At that point, my inclination (and the 5-10 people around me) was to back up because this @#$@#$ TSA agent was out of her #@$@#$ mind screaming and gesturing while walking towards us. Thankfully, another agent came by with a cart full of tubs at that point and things went back to normal with another "PUTYOURSTUFFINTHETUBSANDKEEPMOVING" scream.
Sometimes, you're trying to comply but the person in authority is a moron, an asshat, something worse, or just doesn't know what the heck is going on. Did that happen in Tulsa? Who knows, but it doesn't matter to the people with agendas.
That person's supervisor would want to know about that. Seriously. If that's what she was doing, she's done it before and they are looking for an excuse to cut her loose.
My little brother is a police officer. He has a lovely wife and they are expecting their first child.
He's a good man and the last thing he would want is to hurt someone much less kill them.
He lays his life on the line every time he's on duty to protect and serve.
If you do not comply with a request from an officer of the law there are repercussions, that shouldn't even be debatable.
If he feels that in the midst of noncompliance and a potential threat to his life is imminent, I would expect him to drop the perp with quick deadly precision.
He's a good man and the last thing he would want is to hurt someone much less kill them.
He lays his life on the line every time he's on duty to protect and serve.
If you do not comply with a request from an officer of the law there are repercussions, that shouldn't even be debatable.
If he feels that in the midst of noncompliance and a potential threat to his life is imminent, I would expect him to drop the perp with quick deadly precision.
Al sharpton coming in a time of tragedy is great. He has really been a great friend and physical presence for black Oklahomans in north tulsa who have been terrorized by super predators over the past decade or so.
But she's a cop and trained to be in control in those situations. You don't shoot someone for reaching for something. You shoot them for pointing the gun in your direction. Cops don't get to pre-emptivly shoot you for something you are potentially going to do.
If he 'reached' for something and she couldn't see what it is, then she's in the wrong. I could reach for my insurance card in the glove box. I damn sure better not get shot for it.
If he 'reached' for something and she couldn't see what it is, then she's in the wrong. I could reach for my insurance card in the glove box. I damn sure better not get shot for it.
If you are told to stop and get down and you instead decide to reach for your insurance card then what happens next is your fault. Your insurance card is t going anywhere. It's not running away and you just have to get it as quickly as possible. You have a chambered weapon pointed at your person in the hands of a human being who may or may not make a mistake. If you reach, you have rationalized that you are going to take your chances. I hope you don't get shot, but if you do it is YOUR actions that caused the reaction. If you lay down and simply comply the chances plummet that you get shot even if you are as black as midnight in a bear den.
If a cop tells you to put your hands on the wheel and you reach in the glove box, you are asking to be shot.
And once again this is being played out by the MSM media/on the internet/social media because it fits the "narrative". There are three investigations that need to be finalized; sadly, the ready/fire/aim mentality has already poisoned the well.
I just watched Lawrence odonnel say the police would have for sure lied about the situation had their not been video. The liberal mind is an amazing thing. He is so disgusting. Thank god no one watches him.
Cops get to use deadly force when they are REASONABLY in fear of death or great bodily harm and reasonably believe that such force is necessary to prevent such harm to you.
The point that the gun is out and pointing at you is way beyond that point.
Hypothetical. Let's say you're the officer. You're on a traffic stop. You have information which leads you to believe the person you have stopped has a gun in the glove box. The person is openly hostile towards you. He reaches for the glove box as you tell him not to. He replies, "Fukk you!" as he opens the glove box.
Decision time. And you have one second or less to decide what to do. You going to wait until the barrel of that gun is in your face to address the threat?
Nope. Thankfully that's not how it actually works. If an officer waits for you to point your weapon at him/her, the officer has lost. There's a reason officers give commands. It's for your safety as well as theirs.
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