Are you placing that on the table?
Are you the first leftist on this board to do so?
Teachers Strike...No School Monday
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Are you placing that on the table?
Are you the first leftist on this board to do so?
Most just like to say it isn’t very much money, which I guess means we just shouldn’t do it. That said, it is money and a lot of money with as many tiny districts as we have. We should cut the fat there while we are also raising revenue. We cut the shit out of classrooms the last several years but I don’t believe we have made many cuts at the admin level.
They appear to be attempting to solve the problem with a single magic bullet, when the reality is that it requires more of a shotgun style load coming together for a comprehensive result.
We should definitely not try for the magic bullet until we can wring an extra $95 per pupil out of the money we spend on administration. Then we can have the lowest spend on administration and the third lowest spend on instruction (an improvement of 0 spots).
Page 20, of https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2017/econ/g15-aspef.pdf
You've made no point, and the spirit of your response is ignorant.
Yes. I'm from rural Oklahoma and see the schools with 11 Sr's graduating and all the admin, brick, and mortar, etc. It seems like there's a definite economy of scale that could be recognized with a little bit of creativity and new thinking. That said, there was a really good post from someone (in school admin, as I recall) in an education thread within the last couple of years that quoted some stats to the effect that Oklahoma is actually more efficient with our administrative costs compared to other states. Also, a Sup that makes $100k a year in these tiny districts may earn every dollar in managing the low paid, redneck teachers, parents of every future Lebron or Stephen Hawking, crumbling schools, etc. It takes a person with some political savvy to keep these little schools that are the focus of the whole community on the tracks. I've seen and litigated some school board fights that are insane and downright Appalachian. I am offended by the number of little shitty schools, but I'm also the first to say they need managed.
I agree with your second quoted post, too. I used to think charter schools were the answer. Well... it turns out they're all over the map. I used to think vouchers were the answer, maybe they are. Reviving school discipline may be part of it (If you don't want your kid spanked, that's fine -- the school should respect that, but don't bitch when Johnnie or Susie gets re-directed to an alternative school. Everybody wins. That takes money.) My sole ideological point in all this is that the GOP presided over the implosion of our primary educational system, and I'll be damned if I'd let anybody's ideology influence the next generation of educational policy. Between our low taxes and proud hillbil-- er, LOCAL school board control without meaningful standards we're kaput.
I also kind of reject the "testing isn't fair to teachers or students" mantra. Test them all until they bleed. I'd pay the teachers $35 - $100k based on their kids' test scores.
I don't understand how anybody could see the gross inequity between OKC private and public schools and defend the status quo.
Damn good post I might say. Feel dirty for doing so but wtf. So you don’t want anybody’s ideology influencing educational policy? You sure about that? Also, did a hillbilly/redneck steal a girlfriend of yours in the past? Your hatred is off the charts.
The only thing most are in a disagreement with you is your incessant banging this drum that this all happened within the last 10 years.
BULLSHIT! It has been a problem F O R E V E R ! ! ! Through both Republicans and Democratic government.
If you could just take off your damn blue blinders and see everyone thinks changes for the better need to be made you might find out that a lot of people agree here.
If such a smart person doesn't get the point then there must not have been one.
That is factually wrong. Just flat wrong. We didn't have 4 day school days and schools without heat in the winter before all this. Our teacher pay has never been this bad. We can all see this. We all pick up a newspaper and see the teacher of the year leave for Texas for more money. We see that we're at the bottom of the barrel for teacher pay. We all know teachers and see how they live, and know how they used to live. Don't you try to gaslight anybody by blaming the dems for this. We've had Republican:
Gov
Lt. Gov
Sec. of Educ
Senate
House
and they haven't done anything to fix it. The lower gross production tax has crippled our primary education -- straight republican deal. If you're trying to say it's always been this bad, you're flat lying our of your ass. Marinate in this conservative government -- this is exactly the stated agenda all this time. Small government. This is it.
Yeah I'm sure.
I come from a long line of rednecks. I have license to freely criticize them like black people can drop N bombs without consequence.
So did a democrat steal your boyfriend?
If your rhetoric and blame-assigning causes the conversation to disintegrate, then it is part of the problem.
Hell it was rhetoric and blame-assigning that got us here. We HAD to cut the gross productino tax to be competitive. We HAD to get leaner and really get some great solutions on the table. Here we are.
It'll be a hell of a disintegration if people defend it. The GOP demanded a tax and funding change and they got it. Teachers (or a whole bunch of them) cheered and voted for it for years.
And you haven't gotten me started on child welfare. Wanna know what the status of OK's child welfare system is? It's intertwined with the education issues. Lack of money and will to make meaningful changes.
Wrong, Dang, you did so well in your post above....and then this.
Let me tell you about teacher pay from someone who has been married to an elementary educator for 21 years. Teacher pay in Oklahoma has always been bad! Having low teacher pay in Oklahoma is not and has never been a new revelation.
When my wife graduated OSU in 1994, average teacher salary in Oklahoma was 48th in the nation. In the year 2000, it was 49th in the nation. (Note: easy to find on this website: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d01/dt079.asp)
Fun fact, Oklahoma has had 22 democratic governors and 5 republican ones.
I think it’s more telling to look at the last five office holders:
Failin’ (R) 2011-present
Henry Brad Henry (D) 2003-2011
Keating (R) 1995-2003
David “How do you plead?” Walters (D) 1991-1995
Henry Bellmon (R) 1987-1991
Outside of Bellmon, how many of the others were actually competent leaders?
I think it’s more telling to look at the last five office holders:
Failin’ (R) 2011-present
Henry Brad Henry (D) 2003-2011
Keating (R) 1995-2003
David “How do you plead?” Walters (D) 1991-1995
Henry Bellmon (R) 1987-1991
Outside of Bellmon, how many of the others were actually competent leaders?
I wanna dig into this. IN the meanwhile, why the jump from '00 to '10? Look at '99-10 to now, i.e. about the last 8ish years. https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d17/tables/dt17_211.60.asp?current=yes
The only thing a Democrat has ever stolen from me is my money.
I’m going to play the @CowboyUp game and blame Obama, Peloci, and the far left national Dems here. Oklahoma has had some incredibly good Democrats that would be moderate Republicans in California or New York. The far left national Dems completely ruined the brand and left many in Oklahoma afraid to vote for a (D) which left us with some really stupid people claiming to be Republicans that really have no idea what conservative principles really mean.
So, I blame Dems for the election of really stupid Republicans.
So, I blame Dems for the election of really stupid Republicans.
Thanks for the link. My pay stubs actually kinda match the up and down that it shows for the teachers. Because there was a downturn in the economy, I think some called it a depression, my pay went down based on sales. I believe the government had to drastically cut the next budget due to the financial problems the state was facing.
Or am I remembering all of this incorrectly?
Superintendents pay 2016 http://oklahomawatch.org/2016/03/06/school-superintendent-salaries/
School district boundaries http://sites.csa.ou.edu/transportation/
I don't think consolidation is the total solution, but I believe it needs to be done for efficiency. I'm also not advocating for school closures if the buildings are being used.
I actually think a sales tax raise will need to be involved in some manner to generate enough revenue and it might be the most balanced approach than targeting certain businesses.
School district boundaries http://sites.csa.ou.edu/transportation/
I don't think consolidation is the total solution, but I believe it needs to be done for efficiency. I'm also not advocating for school closures if the buildings are being used.
I actually think a sales tax raise will need to be involved in some manner to generate enough revenue and it might be the most balanced approach than targeting certain businesses.
No it is not. And the pox on both their houses thing does not help us fix the problem. If you just put taxes back at 2004 levels the state would have 1.5 billion more in annual revenue today.
Who did that? What party? This is a GOP problem that they need to fix or it will be fixed for them in November.
$1.5 billion more each year since 2004?
So Oklahoma taxpayers got to keep nearly $20 billion of their own earned money.
Of course you know, (or maybe you don't, neither would surprise me) that those figures rise every fiscal year. And if people keeping their "own earned money" is such a great thing let's take that to it's logical conclusion and ban any and all taxes altogether. Let's get rid of civilization. That's what taxes are are of course. Civilazation.
Concepts you and AC may not be capable of grasping.
Calm your tits. You're trying to win hearts if you're spending any time on a message board discussing politics.
Raise property taxes. I was going over the NEA stats and OK is 50th in the union on property tax collection. There is room there, and traditionally this tax has been used for schools. Consolidate districts at the same time.
Not trying to convince you of anything. By your posts and likes you are an unreachable idiot.
For everyone else
The unofficial song of our walkout!
Join the movement! This is our Rosa Parks moment!
If you're not, then you're doing a good job.
That said, I am not your issue. And you have no idea what my thoughts are comprehensively, because I haven't expressed them and you haven't asked.
If you teach with the same underlying tendencies you show here, then you're doing some folks a disservice. Hopefully this isn't the real you, though.
It is all over CNN. It was one of the top stories on my local news at 6 AM this morning. A huge black-eye for the state.
Saw on the news this morning Western Heights School Board expects their teachers to be in class today. We'll see what happens.
Slight thread derail: Is Brtinla the dude who posted a very long story, complete with pictures, of his cocaine, HGH, and ketamine fueled experience in Los Angeles about 10 years ago? That was one of the crazier things I've ever read on this board (if it was this board). Surprised it didn't make the HOF board. Just curious.
