I have been active in economic development and our education is an anchor around Oklahoma's neck. Its reason #1 why I despise conservative ideology. We have awful education and cons actively work to keep us backwards.
Teachers Strike...No School Monday
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I have been active in economic development and our education is an anchor around Oklahoma's neck. Its reason #1 why I despise conservative ideology. We have awful education and cons actively work to keep us backwards.
The rest of us can get a raise and there's no guarantee that it'll be there next year. There's a lot of grumbling about the funding for this raise not being guaranteed for next year...which isn't an invalid concern given the dumpster fire of state funding in Oklahoma recently....but this is the same situation that a lot of us deal with as well.
Why do you think Oklahoma has awful education?
Is it spending? For example, do you think New York is best because they lead the nation in spending per student at $20k?
Is it ideology? Do you think California is better because they are very liberal (even though US News and World Report ranks their K-12 quality education below that of many other states ... including Oklahoma).
What states do you believe are good at education?
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Might want to read this. http://www.sde.ok.gov/sde/newsblog/2018-03-29/new-teacher-pay-raise-faqs
And you might want to read aloud your last sentence in your post.
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I can't tell you the metrics of the other states. I can tell you:
1. Oklahoma is faring poorly in the objective metrics ive seen;
2. Education is THE reason I've been given twice why Oklahoma towns with some of the country's lowest labor, land, central location, industrial recruitment incentives, and low cost of living cant get to first base.
3. I'm not married to higher teacher pay. Its not ideological. If another state is doing a better job with lower paid teachers or some wholly different dynamic, I am all ears. What is ideological is how shity Oklahoma education has become with all Republican leadership. This is not an opinion. I have seen first-hand the last generation of rural high school students' transcripts and test scores. Their grades are just fine, but curriculum and test scores have gone consistently down over the last 15 years from what I have seen. The best argument against me assessing blame against the conservatives here in Oklahoma is if the conservatives actually improved our education. Put up or shut up. They just b**** and have not done a single thing since taking power to approve this state's education from where it was.
The worst thing to happen to this state was the loss of the Democratic Party of our parents and grandparents. The national party has jumped off the cliff and made the name democrat toxic. The republicans we have now are the result of that in my opinion.
As cbrad says get your house in order and run a common sense dem before everyone that used to believe that way is dead.
As cbrad says get your house in order and run a common sense dem before everyone that used to believe that way is dead.
If it is ideological then why is California’s K-12 education ranked lower than Oklahoma? I think we can all agree California has been one of the most liberal controlled states for quite some time.
And if it is spending per pupil, why are 50th and 48th lowest two states in expenditures per student (according to the NEA’s own 2016 rankings) ranked in the top 20 in K-12 education? And why is New York, which has by far the largest spending per student, ranked in the bottom 20?
Maybe put blame at bloated administration? I agree that the Republican legislature now has the responsibility to fix, but Oklahoma ranks 11th in nation in number of school districts.
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Cites? So who's doing it right? I wanna see who's top 3. Dont cherry pick. Lets look at top, top 3 and top 10 wherever youre getting these stats.
I stated where from. From US News and World Report and from nea.org.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/education
http://www.nea.org/assets/docs/2017_Rankings_and_Estimates_Report-FINAL-SECURED.pdf
I am not making argument what is right or wrong in making education better/worse, but ideology doesn’t seem to hold water when compared to liberal California.
Certainly there has to be some baseline revenue to provide public education, but does throwing more money always make sense? According to these sites, New York appears to be an answer for no.
Are there a myriad of variables between states? Absolutely. But that is my point. If Oklahoma education is bad, what is causing it? I think your reasoning of ideology has a lot of counter arguments.
Utah spends very little on education and gets great results. All on a very conservative state.
The general education budget is 190 million less than 10 years ago. At the same time students have increased by 50,000. AP classes are gone, Music, Art, Sports are gone. Districts have gone down to 4 days a week. Why?
Tax cuts. It's not the recession. It's not the fall in Oil prices. It is the Republican obsession with Tax cuts. If taxes were raised back to 2004 levels, you would have 1.5 billion more in annual revenue now.
This is a self inflicted crisis that requires a solution that involves over a decade of bad policy.
Tax cuts. It's not the recession. It's not the fall in Oil prices. It is the Republican obsession with Tax cuts. If taxes were raised back to 2004 levels, you would have 1.5 billion more in annual revenue now.
This is a self inflicted crisis that requires a solution that involves over a decade of bad policy.
Thank you. The top 3 states in k-12 are Mass, N.H. and N.J. All three I believe are blue. The bottom 3 are NM, NV and AZ. Two of three are red. NV is a bit of an outlier with Las Vegas being what it is, so the 4th worst would be MS, then AK and LA. Pretty strong pattern of the colors at the ends of the spectrum. Pretty good thesis for the resuls:
"Massachusetts ranks as the No. 1 state in education, by all these measures; New Jersey is No. 2. Several other Eastern Seaboard states stand out: New Hampshire, Vermont, Maryland and Virginia. And some Midwestern and Western states also rank in the top 10 in education: Nebraska, Iowa, Utah and Washington. Eight of the states that rank in the top 10 in education also rank in the top 10 overall in the Best States rankings."
Why the focus on California? It's 44th in k-12 and 4th in higher ed. Why skip over so many to get to CA?
Why focus on California? You stated that Oklahoma education was bad due to Republican leadership and then you stated that wasn’t just an opinion.
California is obviously not led by Republicans. And, at least according to those rankings, California’s K-12 education is ranked below Oklahoma.
Also, you state New Hampshire is blue. Did you know both the New Hampshire House and Senate are solidly led by Republicans?
These states seem to indicate that this is not just a Republican vs Democrat issue.
To be clear, I am not saying that K-12 education in Oklahoma is funded at a needed level. @brtinla is correct when mentioning that teachers are having to pull money out of their own pockets for classroom supplies. My wife spends hundreds every year out of our pocket. Teachers need to be paid more and should not have to pay for needed supplies in their classrooms!
But I don’t think that a lower funding level than what we had in 2004 is adversely impacting education levels of students. In fact, Oklahoma has improved in education scoring compared to other states. Certainly there is a baseline of funding required, but throwing more money at education does not mean better quality education. The State of New York is the poster boy for this. New York spends the most, but is not in the top half of many state rankings of education quality.
i believe we need to find a way as a State to adequately pay teachers and fund classrooms. But this needs to be a comprehensive plan. This has been stated several times, but having 500 school districts is wasteful. There is a lot of savings and potentially better education by consolidating.
Also, we see several schools with incredible technology, wonderful buildings, and amazing athletic facilities. Why do we have state laws that prevent funding to be utilized for salaries (Note: there may well be good reasons, I just don’t know what they are).
Finally, I remain 100% behind the need to fund teachers salaries and appropriate increase for school funding. And I remain 100% in my belief that teachers walking out on their students and school boards locking out good teachers in the middle of a school year is a terriible idea and abdicating their agreed upon responsibilities.
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Do we honestly think that supplies in the classroom is worth a teacher strike? Do we honestly think that it is the State's representation in OKC that has a direct link to supplies in the classroom? Do we honestly think that the States budget has a direct link to teacher's need for copy paper?
If teachers want to complain about this issue they need to take this up with their school boards and superintendents who's responsibility it is to ensure that the money needed to supply the teachers is there. If they cannot do this then replace the board, and the superintendent. Blaming the state for mismanagement of their own schools at their own administrative levels is purely political, disingenuous, and hurts teachers and students alike. A better rallying cry would be to audit all the school districts. A better rallying cry would be to consolidate school districts. A better rallying cry would be to fund innovation in the classroom. All I've heard over the weekend, is my chair is broke, and I can't get copy paper.
If teachers want change they are going to have to 1. change their message, and 2. go after the things that will get them what they want. They seem to barking up the wrong tree with the wrong message.
If teachers want to complain about this issue they need to take this up with their school boards and superintendents who's responsibility it is to ensure that the money needed to supply the teachers is there. If they cannot do this then replace the board, and the superintendent. Blaming the state for mismanagement of their own schools at their own administrative levels is purely political, disingenuous, and hurts teachers and students alike. A better rallying cry would be to audit all the school districts. A better rallying cry would be to consolidate school districts. A better rallying cry would be to fund innovation in the classroom. All I've heard over the weekend, is my chair is broke, and I can't get copy paper.
If teachers want change they are going to have to 1. change their message, and 2. go after the things that will get them what they want. They seem to barking up the wrong tree with the wrong message.
Why does your wife spend the money. Does she not get the opportunity to put together a school supply list. I know my son had a crap load of stuff we had to take the first day. When my sons class needs something during the year his teacher asks parents to supply and there are multiple people responding. Over time this line of having to spend own money gets old.
Those results are not the reality. An enormous amount of resources go to English language learners. California has to deal with massive amounts of ELL students and they are not just Spanish speaking. That's why so many Northern states test so well.
But we can argue all day long about that but the fact is Education in OKLAHOMA is much worse today than it was 10 years ago at all levels by any metric. Class sizes have exploded, AP classes no longer taught, music, art, sports canceled. 4 day school weeks. Thousands of emergency certifications. OU and OSU get 10% of their operating budget from the state when it used to be 50.
The republican experiment in in tax cuts must be reversed and the money invested in Education
But we can argue all day long about that but the fact is Education in OKLAHOMA is much worse today than it was 10 years ago at all levels by any metric. Class sizes have exploded, AP classes no longer taught, music, art, sports canceled. 4 day school weeks. Thousands of emergency certifications. OU and OSU get 10% of their operating budget from the state when it used to be 50.
The republican experiment in in tax cuts must be reversed and the money invested in Education
And roads, bridges, infrastructure, DHS, Corrections, and all state agencies.
NO NO NO! We waste to much money incarcerating non violent drug offenders. We need to gut those agencies, release all the prisoners, stop putting new ones in, lay off law enforcement and corrections officers and invest in treatment and education. Our incarceration rates are embarrassing.
So that's an option. But until that option is exercised, we have a responsibility to humanly house, feed, and treat those we choose to remove from the rest of the population.
If there’s a group that can manage to squander the goodwill of the public today, it’ll be the teachers. Generally, most people are supportive and agree that changes need to occur. Hopefully, the momentum of the last few weeks can be channeled by leadership and this opportunity is not wasted.
That's exactly my point. They're a decade overdue and have SO MUCH room to make up now, it's damned near impossible in a short period of time. They voted republican for a decade, they helped create this dynamic by being duped to go down the "small government" trail, now we all get to deal with horrendous education.
Just honked at a group of teachers walking towards the capitol. They looked at me clapping and fist pumping as if I was rooting them on. I told them to get the eff out of the way they’re holding up traffic and commerce. The nerve.
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Interesting stat I read last night from oklahomawatch.org. In 2012, “Oklahoma ranked sixth among states in percentage of funds spent on district administration, at 3.2 percent, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. Those costs include superintendent pay, the school board, support staff and related office expenses.”
Maybe, just maybe this strongly indicates that education fixes in Oklahoma should NOT just be allocating more money. But putting more money to instruction and not administration.
Maybe, just maybe this strongly indicates that education fixes in Oklahoma should NOT just be allocating more money. But putting more money to instruction and not administration.
But but but those tiny school district superintendents do stuff like mowing and driving the bus for their $100,000 salary! People get confused when you respond that if a superintendent has time for mowing and bus driving, we should be cutting that position and hiring much cheaper people to mow and drive buses.
I haven't heard anyone say it's an "either/or" issue. We can all see the teacher drain and poor salary. We can all see other structural issues that need can be addressed, too.
Where in the current discussion is addressing the other structural issues?
And most of these issues have been a problem for longer than the Rep have been in office. Both parties are to blame so get off your 10 year crap.
Changes to the state Constitution are needed and that will take both parties.
I just don't see the teachers holding out long enough for real change to happen.
OKCPS closed tomorrow as well. Daughter is a little pissed about it. They're supposed to be prepping for state tests and they're not getting it done. It's all about the kids though.
My junior class daughter was supposed to take the ACT tomorrow at school.
Calling off school doesn’t really send much of a message to young people that the ACT is important.
If the ACT was so important, the legislature could cave.
You can't count on the Oklahoma legislature to do anything that's right. I'm really not sure why they get paid. We don't get many smart ones in because they know not to waste their time in that mouth breathing collective.
Page 20, of https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2017/econ/g15-aspef.pdf is an eye opener. We could give all of the administrative salary to teachers and the per pupil teacher pay would still be in the bottom 10 in the US.
Just saw the most ironic post on Facebook. Some teacher at the OKC rally posted pictures of empty parking spaces for the Governor and legislative leaders. They then posted “1/3 of legislature is not here this morning. Whoever didn’t show up should be voted out of office”
I guess she didn’t think that someone could have posted pictures of that teacher’s empty classroom right now with a similar caption.
I guess she didn’t think that someone could have posted pictures of that teacher’s empty classroom right now with a similar caption.
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Whoops! That is my error. It specifically said “didn’t”. I should also add that I am presuming she was a teacher. She might have been a bystander at the rally.
