Stuart Smalley is in trouble.

[imprimis]

Sorry, but "hover hands" =/= groping.

Unless there is more to it, she's already accepted his apology and said that is enough and all she wanted.

Now, if more women come forward making allegations against Franken, then that changes the equation. But to call that, or accepting that photograph as evidence of actual "groping" is really disingenuous and undermines the allegations being made against Weinstein, Moore, Louis C.K., etc.*

*(much in the way that phony allegations of rape, racism, etc., have in that it works to delegitimatize those who have an actual bona fide complaint.)

Notwithstanding the debate over whether he was actually touching her breasts or not in the photo, her own statement from the link in the OP's post is:

“I couldn’t believe it. He groped me, without my consent, while I was asleep,” she writes, adding, “How dare anyone grab my breasts like this and think it’s funny?”

There are only two people on the plane who know for certain if Franken actually touched her breasts and the one with the breasts in question said it happened.

Seems like her statement that there was actual contact has to be taken as credible given almost everyone is taking the accusers of Moore as being credible.

 

[MegaPoke]

This thread has a lot of unchecked whataboutism.

#Istandwithfranken

 

[squeak]

Again, are Republicans holding Trump to the same standard they did Clinton? Are you?

Call me when Trump ****s an intern and lies about it under oath. Until then, at worst, he joked about groupies and has some accusations. So yeah, I’m holding him to the same standard.

 

[Headhunter]

Sorry, but "hover hands" =/= groping.

Unless there is more to it, she's already accepted his apology and said that is enough and all she wanted.

Now, if more women come forward making allegations against Franken, then that changes the equation. But to call that, or accepting that photograph as evidence of actual "groping" is really disingenuous and undermines the allegations being made against Weinstein, Moore, Louis C.K., etc.*

*(much in the way that phony allegations of rape, racism, etc., have in that it works to delegitimatize those who have an actual bona fide complaint.)

Notwithstanding the debate over whether he was actually touching her breasts or not in the photo, her own statement from the link in the OP's post is:

“I couldn’t believe it. He groped me, without my consent, while I was asleep,” she writes, adding, “How dare anyone grab my breasts like this and think it’s funny?”

There are only two people on the plane who know for certain if Franken actually touched her breasts and the one with the breasts in question said it happened.

Seems like her statement that there was actual contact has to be taken as credible given almost everyone is taking the accusers of Moore as being credible.

I look at that picture and it looks like he's actually touching her. Granted he was doing it in a way so not to wake her up but he was touching.

 

[Been Jammin]

Owen Franken, Al's brother was the official photographer on that USO trip.

Clams he doesn't

Notwithstanding the debate over whether he was actually touching her breasts or not in the photo, her own statement from the link in the OP's post is:

“I couldn’t believe it. He groped me, without my consent, while I was asleep,” she writes, adding, “How dare anyone grab my breasts like this and think it’s funny?”

There are only two people on the plane who know for certain if Franken actually touched her breasts and the one with the breasts in question said it happened.

Seems like her statement that there was actual contact has to be taken as credible given almost everyone is taking the accusers of Moore as being credible.

What? She admits she was asleep. How can you state that she should be the one to know what actually happened when she is claiming that she was asleep (and therefore in no condition to prevent his actions)? Either she was asleep, and she doesn't know anything other than what she sees in the picture, or she wasn't sleeping and can't claim that she was incapacitated when he took advantage.

 

[Been Jammin]

What was our bet? A $1000? I accept checks.

Second accuser Melanie Morgan.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/60f55a16-99e5-334a-8967-66a09dbbd75f/ss_journalist-melanie-morgan:-al.html

Leann Tweeden accuses Stuart, uh, Al of inappropriate groping. This sh!t is going to hit a lot of people. I can imagine the powerful folks in Washington, Hollywood and Wall Street are really nervous.

This will not be the last person to come forward, men who do these type of things don't just do it once.

Melanie Morgan is accusing him of intimidating her. Not the same thing as sexual harassment. No groping. No forced kiss. Not the same thing, IMO.

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

Franken isn't anywhere near Biff, Weinstein, etc. but it doesn't really matter -- they're not the standard for anything outside of prison. The only way he's in the clear imo is 1) if the picture was staged with her participation and they were goofing off, and 2) She's lying about all the other stuff she claimed. I see Roger Stone was involved in her coming out with all this so maybe there's a chance that Franken really did nothing wrong. Doubt it.

Lib women are wearing him out, the NY Times is wearing him out... he's done.

What if I told you.... Biff would herald in a new era of PC, universal health care, infrastructure spending, and unprecedented (since the late 20's and 30's) swing to the left?

 

[Rdcldad]

this country has gone full retard

 

[Headhunter]

Melanie Morgan is accusing him of intimidating her. Not the same thing as sexual harassment. No groping. No forced kiss. Not the same thing, IMO.

Intimidation and multiple phone calls is not harassment?

I said that Leann Tweeden would not be the one and only accuser. I didn't mention what kind of harassment. In my book Melanie Morgan is a victim of an abusive harasser. Are you saying women can't be harassed by a man if the man isn't looking for sex? Should we write that off as just an argument?

 

[Been Jammin]

Intimidation and multiple phone calls is not harassment?

I said that Leann Tweeden would not be the one and only accuser. I didn't mention what kind of harassment. In my book Melanie Morgan is a victim of an abusive harasser. Are you saying women can't be harassed by a man if the man isn't looking for sex? Should we write that off as just an argument?

IMO, a lot of things can qualify as harassment. If I find your Twitter handle, and repeatedly tweet mean things to you...it could be considered harassment. I think it is up to you to decide if what I did was harassment or not. It depends on how it made you feel.

I think it is a bit dramatic to call Franken an "abusive harasser" based on the Morgan story. Did she feel intimidated? Sure. Were here feelings hurt? Probably. Was what he did to her OK? No. But, this story doesn't see the light of day if not for the Tweeden story, and is not the same thing, IMO. He got pissed off at Morgan and made sure she knew he was pissed off at her.

Maybe there was more to it. We don't know. If she felt "harassed", then I guess we should say she was. But, this isn't the same type accusation that we are seeing with Weinstein, or Ratner, or the Franken/Tweeden situation. JMO.

 

[imprimis]

What? She admits she was asleep. How can you state that she should be the one to know what actually happened when she is claiming that she was asleep (and therefore in no condition to prevent his actions)? Either she was asleep, and she doesn't know anything other than what she sees in the picture, or she wasn't sleeping and can't claim that she was incapacitated when he took advantage.

I don't know about you but I react immediately when someone or something touches me while I'm sleeping and know precisely where they touched me. I am also fully awake nanoseconds after being touched. You're going to have to come up with better conjecture than that to debunk her statement.

It's an isolated place to stand when even CNN doesn't buy Franken's apology which contains no denial of groping/grabbing Tweeden's breasts.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/16/politics/franken-apology/index.html

 

[NZ Poke]

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

Intimidation and multiple phone calls is not harassment?

I said that Leann Tweeden would not be the one and only accuser. I didn't mention what kind of harassment. In my book Melanie Morgan is a victim of an abusive harasser. Are you saying women can't be harassed by a man if the man isn't looking for sex? Should we write that off as just an argument?

So what do you think about Trump's sexual harassment/assault/walking in on nude beauty contestants stuff over the last year? I didn't recall much concern from you about all that.

 

[CowboyJD]

Intimidation and multiple phone calls is not harassment?

I said that Leann Tweeden would not be the one and only accuser. I didn't mention what kind of harassment. In my book Melanie Morgan is a victim of an abusive harasser. Are you saying women can't be harassed by a man if the man isn't looking for sex? Should we write that off as just an argument?

What is described in the article by her doesn’t meet the legal definition of sexual harassment.

Which is what been stated.

It does meet the legal definition of being an obnoxious asshole though.

 

[MegaPoke]

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

Meanwhile, Melania's all like, "He glab her teets and she no charge him? Nothing? Now is flee?"

 

[Been Jammin]

I don't know about you but I react immediately when someone or something touches me while I'm sleeping and know precisely where they touched me. I am also fully awake nanoseconds after being touched. You're going to have to come up with better conjecture than that to debunk her statement.

She already said that she didn't know anything about his actions until she received a photo CD after she was already home.

Sorry, but "She should know because the breasts that were touched were hers" does not work when she admits that she had no idea that it happened until days later.

 

[GL97]

Call me when Trump ****s an intern and lies about it under oath. Until then, at worst, he joked about groupies and has some accusations.

So it has to be an intern to get your attention. You are just ignoring the many accusers who have come forward regarding Trump because none of them were an intern?

And "at worse" he has "some" accusations? Isn't that exactly what is going on with everyone else too?

 

[Headhunter]

So what do you think about Trump's sexual harassment/assault/walking in on nude beauty contestants stuff over the last year? I didn't recall much concern from you about all that.

I think it is problematic but I also think that the timing of all the accusations in the middle of a campaign smack of Clinton dirty tricks. Those people are unethical scum and will do anything to win.

Which makes it all the more sweet someone like Trump, who does have serious flaws, beat her.

If these accusations against Trump are proven to be true he should resign.

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

I think it is problematic but I also think that the timing of all the accusations in the middle of a campaign smack of Clinton dirty tricks. Those people are unethical scum and will do anything to win.

Which makes it all the more sweet someone like Trump, who does have serious flaws, beat her.

If these accusations against Trump are proven to be true he should resign.

Congrats on being the most partisan guy on the board. That's saying something, too.

 

[MegaPoke]

Meanwhile, Melania's all like, "He glab her teets and she no charge him? Nothing? Now is flee?"

Why do you hate immigrants?

 

[GL97]

What if I told you.... Biff would herald in a new era of PC, universal health care, infrastructure spending, and unprecedented (since the late 20's and 30's) swing to the left?

Good point. It is as if a majority of Americans are reacting to everything Trump represents and supports by embracing everything that is opposite of him.

Maybe that is the silver lining of the Trump presidency.

 

[squeak]

So it has to be an intern to get your attention. You are just ignoring the many accusers who have come forward regarding Trump because none of them were an intern?

And "at worse" he has "some" accusations? Isn't that exactly what is going on with everyone else too?

Well, committing sexual harassment while President, like ****ing an intern, is when it becomes a problem.

Also, if we learn something new since he has become President, then we can look into it, but it’s not necessarily a problem.

Why is this so hard for you to understand?

 

[GL97]

@NZ Poke

Care to direct any of your posts to the Moore and Trump accusations? You seem to be ignoring those topics.

 

[Been Jammin]

@NZ Poke

Care to direct any of your posts to the Moore and Trump accusations? You seem to be ignoring those topics.

I bet he is a big fan of Moore.

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

Why do you hate immigrants?

Because they're inconsiderate drivers?

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

Good point. It is as if a majority of Americans are reacting to everything Trump represents and supports by embracing everything that is opposite of him.

Maybe that is the silver lining of the Trump presidency.

I said during the campaign that I would trade a 2 year assault on civil rights, consumer rights, government integrity, the environment, etc. for universal health care. I went back on it once I saw how dishonest and stupid he is, but the proposition still kind of makes me pause. I mean.. what if the house and senate flip? He'd totally sign on to it if he thought it would help his re-election. He has zero loyalty to any party or coherent ideology.

 

[GL97]

Well, committing sexual harassment while President, like ****ing an intern, is when it becomes a problem.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't recall Monica Lewinsky claiming she was sexually harassed by Clinton. Didn't she say it was consensual? Lewinsky wasn't underage (i.e. Moore) nor did she claim Clinton assaulted/harassed her (i.e. Trump).

So again, when are you going to stop making excuses for Trump and hold him to the same standard you apply to those on the left?

 

[squeak]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't recall Monica Lewinsky claiming she was sexually harassed by Clinton. Didn't she say it was consensual? Lewinsky wasn't underage (i.e. Moore) nor did she claim Clinton assaulted/harassed her (i.e. Trump).

So again, when are you going to stop making excuses for Trump and hold him to the same standard you apply to those on the left?

So it’s ok for you to **** your interns in your place of employment? Where do you work?

 

[davidallen]

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

I think it is problematic but I also think that the timing of all the accusations in the middle of a campaign smack of Clinton dirty tricks. Those people are unethical scum and will do anything to win.

Which makes it all the more sweet someone like Trump, who does have serious flaws, beat her.

If these accusations against Trump are proven to be true he should resign.

LOL He's concerned that someone may be victimizing women now.

 

[davidallen]

So you want Trump impeached for what?

General Asshattery and Incompetence will do...

 

[GL97]

So it’s ok for you to **** your interns in your place of employment?

Did I post that? I was responded to your claim of sexual harassment, which I don't recall Lewinsky ever making. Clinton and Lewinsky's relationship was improper but there was nothing illegal about it. It isn't like what Moore and Trump are accused of.

Yet you make excuses for Trump (and Moore even?). Can you not apply an even standard across the board?

 

[squeak]

Did I post that? I was responded to your claim of sexual harassment, which I don't recall Lewinsky ever making. Clinton and Lewinsky's relationship was improper but there was nothing illegal about it. It isn't like what Moore and Trump are accused of.

Yet you make excuses for Trump (and Moore even?). Can you not apply an even standard across the board?

I’m over this back and forth nonsense. It’s a waste of time.

I feel like I’m playing chess with a pigeon. It’s boring and there’s shit all over my chess board.

 

[GL97]

I’m over this back and forth nonsense. It’s a waste of time.

So I will take that as a no.

You hold those on the left to one standard, and those on the right to another standard. You could have just said that to begin with.

 

[Alpha Poke]

Libs came up with an entirely new word so Conservatives couldn't do that.

Make up your damn mind and quit moving the f'n goalposts.

 

[CowboyJD]

He’s just talking about groupies man. It’s not like he said he actually did or would do that, man. That’s totally different than Franken man. Locker room talk. Nothing to see here.

 

[07pilt]

Can some one explain "I moved on her like a bitch?"

Is he being self deprecating saying his moves were bitch like?
Is he saying he moved on her like she was a bitch in heat?

 

[Alpha Poke]

The sex stuff is a boon to everyone that isn't in the public eye.

This is the Draino that does what Trump can't accomplish.

 

[Been Jammin]

The sex stuff is a boon to everyone that isn't in the public eye.

This is the Draino that does what Trump can't accomplish.

I guess it will do a lot then.