Sorry, Guys, We Can’t Blame This On Biden

Ponca Dan

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This is all on Trump and his completely incompetent foreign policy team, most notably Peter Navarro and Mike Pompeo. What a mess they created!


 

Ponca Dan

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While Trump does deserve some blame the real blame is with every leader we’ve had since Nixon.
I disagree. You are looking at this through Trump-tinted glasses. None of this would be happening if he had not listened to idiots like Navarro. There’s no sugar coating it. This is a massive failure by Trump.
 

2012Bearcat

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I disagree. You are looking at this through Trump-tinted glasses. None of this would be happening if he had not listened to idiots like Navarro. There’s no sugar coating it. This is a massive failure by Trump.

You might want to rethink this. Trump didn’t assist China in becoming a world super power, that’s on those before him.
 

Ponca Dan

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You might want to rethink this. Trump didn’t assist China in becoming a world super power, that’s on those before him.


China set itself on the superpower path when Deng Xiaoping liberalized its economy. With over a billion potential customers China was destined to deserve a seat at the table. From the beginning the USA treated relations with China with a wary eye. Deservedly so. But relations did not have to turn belligerent. That was Trump’s biggest mistake.

Trump made his business bones by being an arrogant untrustworthy bully with his associates. Navarro convinced him that would work on the governmental international stage. He, Navarro, thought he could ride Trump’s coattails by advising Trump to be an arrogant untrustworthy bully with other countries, even our closest allies. China has proven to be able to take his best shot and counterpunch twice as hard. The sour relations between our two countries as they exist today are completely on Trump. The thing is I don’t think Biden’s man, Blinken, has any idea what maneuver he should make. This whole thing is a mess, and it’s a mess caused by DJT. The Trump faithful can’t hide from this failure. No amount of spin will alter that.
 
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Ponca Dan

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Trump had the best foreign policy of any president since Reagan.
He had lots of successes, diplomatically speaking, especially in the ME. His use of the economic bludgeon he thought he had has backfired. It is not treason for a Trump supporter to recognize that and say so. To pretend he did no wrong puts him in a godlike status. He’s a human being just like the rest of us, who made mistakes to go with his successes. His insistence on starting a trade war with the rest of the world is his most blatant mistake. Those that can’t see that suffer from reverse TDS.
 

22LR

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He had lots of successes, diplomatically speaking, especially in the ME. His use of the economic bludgeon he thought he had has backfired. It is not treason for a Trump supporter to recognize that and say so. To pretend he did no wrong puts him in a godlike status. He’s a human being just like the rest of us, who made mistakes to go with his successes. His insistence on starting a trade war with the rest of the world is his most blatant mistake. Those that can’t see that suffer from reverse TDS.

China's Belt and Road Initiative has been around since 2013. But you go right ahead and blame Trump. That's the Dan thing to do.
 
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osuintx

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This is all on Trump and his completely incompetent foreign policy team, most notably Peter Navarro and Mike Pompeo. What a mess they created!


Fruck China- POS
 

osuintx

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I blame very little on Biden. He's a puppet of the left. The majority of the blame for all this is We the people cushy in our own lives (I'm guilty guilty) going about our business trusting our leaders to take care of us. We let the left take CA from us, infiltrate Hollywood, Corporations, Govt (yes Greg Abbott/John Cornyn highly are corrupted) While we did nothing, NADA el zippo. We trusted republicans who said the right things then sold us out. We Trusted the media who are left wing propaganda (sans Rush et al)

It's not the evil dims- we know where they're coming from...its establishment POS Republicans. But the buck stops with us- we the people who simply were too comfortable in our lives let along with CA get taken over, our colleges, our schools etc. Now here we are and what the heck to do.
 
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Ponca Dan

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China's Belt and Road Initiative has been around since 2013. But you go right ahead and blame Trump. That's the Dan thing to do.


Our “hostile” relations long predate the BRI. The US has made countless mistakes from the beginning. Our biggest mistake was in letting China join the WTO and then turning a blind eye to their countless transgressions against its rules. That’s on Trump’s predecessors (although Trump completely abandoned the “stick” the WTO holds over China. That part’s on Trump.). Trump was persuaded by Navarro that he could bully China with sanctions and tariffs. He sold it to Americans as “protecting workers and erasing the trade deficit.” Sanctions and tariffs had the completely opposite effect. And in the process he pissed off most of the rest of the world, which took great umbrage at his bullying. That only helped the BRI ramp up at greater speed. And has put us in the position in which we find ourselves. Pretending it’s not on Trump’s policies doesn’t change the fact that it IS on Trump’s policies.

As for TDS: on the one extreme we have nincompoops like Syskatine for whom Trump could do no right. They criticized literally everything about him, refused to see or admit when he did something right. On the other extreme we have nincompoops for whom Trump could do no wrong. Their adoration of the man is almost cult like. The only person who deserves to be insulted by my earlier comment would be from either category. If that describes you, then so be it. This won’t be the first time I rustled the feathers of someone with reverse TDS.
 

22LR

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Our “hostile” relations long predate the BRI. The US has made countless mistakes from the beginning. Our biggest mistake was in letting China join the WTO and then turning a blind eye to their countless transgressions against its rules. That’s on Trump’s predecessors (although Trump completely abandoned the “stick” the WTO holds over China. That part’s on Trump.). Trump was persuaded by Navarro that he could bully China with sanctions and tariffs. He sold it to Americans as “protecting workers and erasing the trade deficit.” Sanctions and tariffs had the completely opposite effect. And in the process he pissed off most of the rest of the world, which took great umbrage at his bullying. That only helped the BRI ramp up at greater speed. And has put us in the position in which we find ourselves. Pretending it’s not on Trump’s policies doesn’t change the fact that it IS on Trump’s policies.

As for TDS: on the one extreme we have nincompoops like Syskatine for whom Trump could do no right. They criticized literally everything about him, refused to see or admit when he did something right. On the other extreme we have nincompoops for whom Trump could do no wrong. Their adoration of the man is almost cult like. The only person who deserves to be insulted by my earlier comment would be from either category. If that describes you, then so be it. This won’t be the first time I rustled the feathers of someone with reverse TDS.

Someone who doesn’t vote has no right to complain about any president on either side. You’re dismissed.
 

Ponca Dan

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Someone who doesn’t vote has no right to complain about any president on either side. You’re dismissed.
If that’s the best counter argument you’ve got, it’s pretty weak sauce!
 
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osuintx

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Someone who doesn’t vote has no right to complain about any president on either side. You’re dismissed.
Not so fast. I agree people should vote. But if someone doesn't vote but they call out bad behavior that sure means something. I Don't think you can dismiss people just bc they don't vote Tho- just my opinion. I call my reps all the time and feel like it means nothing most the time. ...we vote and votes are stolen - voting means way less these days sadly the an it Did 10
Years ago
 
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osuintx

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He had lots of successes, diplomatically speaking, especially in the ME. His use of the economic bludgeon he thought he had has backfired. It is not treason for a Trump supporter to recognize that and say so. To pretend he did no wrong puts him in a godlike status. He’s a human being just like the rest of us, who made mistakes to go with his successes. His insistence on starting a trade war with the rest of the world is his most blatant mistake. Those that can’t see that suffer from reverse TDS.
I thought he did better than all the rest of POS presidents we had before him- rest of them just let China run rough shod over the US- sold us out completely
 

22LR

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If that’s the best counter argument you’ve got, it’s pretty weak sauce!

Your argument has already been destroyed in this thread, trying to blame Trump for China’s Belt and Road Initiative. Go wash the backfire soot off your face and start a new TDS thread.
 
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Ponca Dan

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I thought he did better than all the rest of POS presidents we had before him- rest of them just let China run rough shod over the US- sold us out completely
The sad fact is China ran roughshod over Trump, too. Our trade deficit with them is at record highs. Our economy (thanks to Covid) is struggling while their’s is not. Our relations with our allies are as bad as they’ve ever been. (unfortunately I don’t think Biden is the man to restore relations). The hostility between the USA and China is as belligerent as can be short of outright war.

Look, I don’t think Trump was a dunce. But I do think he made huge mistakes in his dealings with the rest of the world. How he became enamored of anything Peter Navarro had to say is beyond puzzling. Navarro was at least as bad an advisor as was John Bolton. Trump at least had to good sense to dump Bolton. I wish he’d have done the same with Navarro and Pompeo.
 

Ponca Dan

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Your argument has already been destroyed in this thread, trying to blame Trump for China’s Belt and Road Initiative. Go wash the backfire soot off your face and start a new TDS thread.
You may not realize it, but you’re the one that brought up the BRI. The one thing this thread has proven beyond doubt is you’re one of the ones with reverse TDS.
 

22LR

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You may not realize it, but you’re the one that brought up the BRI. The one thing this thread has proven beyond doubt is you’re one of the ones with reverse TDS.

Oh, I brought it up? Really? Actually, YOU brought it up. Proves you post articles without reading them first. You even fail at trolling.
 
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osuintx

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The sad fact is China ran roughshod over Trump, too. Our trade deficit with them is at record highs. Our economy (thanks to Covid) is struggling while their’s is not. Our relations with our allies are as bad as they’ve ever been. (unfortunately I don’t think Biden is the man to restore relations). The hostility between the USA and China is as belligerent as can be short of outright war.

Look, I don’t think Trump was a dunce. But I do think he made huge mistakes in his dealings with the rest of the world. How he became enamored of anything Peter Navarro had to say is beyond puzzling. Navarro was at least as bad an advisor as was John Bolton. Trump at least had to good sense to dump Bolton. I wish he’d have done the same with Navarro and Pompeo.
Pompeo seemed ok to me- little as I know....Trump kept Wray, Barr and listened to Fauci which are all asinine and stupid and crazy. But he was up against so much corrupt criminal forces that prob none of us could have fought. But those are on him regardless..... and I would take him over Bush, Hussein, McCain, Romney,Hillary, Biden or any other of the deep state POS complicit corrupt scum that was other choices anyday.
 

Ponca Dan

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You may not realize it, but you’re the one that brought up the BRI. The one thing this thread has proven beyond doubt is you’re one of the ones with reverse TDS.
You’re right. The BRI is mentioned in the link, once about a third of the way down and again near the end of the article, although I said nothing about it until you joined the conversation. But I give you that one. My bad.
 
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On Tulsa Time

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Nor can we blame Biden for understaffed restaurants and hotels. Hugo Biden policies certainly aren't helping. Steakhouse daughter, Outback, Choctaw managers tell me they've never seen getting people to work has been this difficult. Bonus stimulus unemployment harms.

This is true, every small business I talk now says getting people back to work is their biggest hurdle.

We lost the Cold War.
 

glflyer

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Oh, the biggest problem with helping China become so powerful is absolutely right wing. Republicans own more manufacturing in China by far than democrats. I would Tax the crap out of all goods coming from communist countries.. Make the company owners move their factories to free countries who do not want to destroy the U. S.
 

Ponca Dan

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Oh, the biggest problem with helping China become so powerful is absolutely right wing. Republicans own more manufacturing in China by far than democrats. I would Tax the crap out of all goods coming from communist countries.. Make the company owners move their factories to free countries who do not want to destroy the U. S.
Which is pretty close to what Donald Trump did.
 

soonerinlOUisiana

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fvck off, leftists
www.youtube.com
Someone who doesn’t vote has no right to complain about any president on either side. needs to just shut the fvck up and get back to us after he has actually done something of substance. You’re dismissed.
FIFY.

PS: Absent military intervention, how was Trump supposed to stop an evil marxist regime from cutting a deal with an evil moslem regime?
 

Ponca Dan

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FIFY.

PS: Absent military intervention, how was Trump supposed to stop an evil marxist regime from cutting a deal with an evil moslem regime?


You ask an excellent question. I don’t know if there is anything he could have done to prevent it, but there is no doubt the things he did exacerbated and accelerated the process. He unilaterally betrayed agreements with Iran that our government had signed in good faith, and followed that with crippling sanctions in an attempt to isolate Iran from the rest of the world. This included bullying our European allies into adhering to the sanctions against their will. This had a double-pronged negative effect. First the sanctions reduced any positive contact between Iran and the western democracies which eliminated any influence they (we) may have had. The sanctions had murderous devastating effects on the Iranian people, but the evil Moslem regime has never been too concerned about that. Second, Trump’s trade war which was primarily aimed at the evil Marxist regime in China had no positive consequence on our relationship, but instead only angered them and caused them to become even more bellicose toward the US. They recognized something the US failed to notice: there’s a whole world out there besides the US. They put things like the BRI into overdrive. So the actions of the Trump administration drove the Iranians right into the waiting arms of the Chinese. And in one fell swoop all the plans of Pompeo and the rest of the NeoCons were trumped (no pun intended).

I’m not any happier about this than you are. But if the US doesn't recognize reality, if we the people continue being played by our “leaders,” we are going to find ourselves in the outside looking in at the rest of the world wondering what the hell happened. The first order of business would be to study what went wrong and why it went wrong, determine a better course. Bullying the world is something an empire tries to do, not a liberal democracy.
 

2012Bearcat

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Oh, the biggest problem with helping China become so powerful is absolutely right wing. Republicans own more manufacturing in China by far than democrats. I would Tax the crap out of all goods coming from communist countries.. Make the company owners move their factories to free countries who do not want to destroy the U. S.

I think if you will actually look at the data and not just listen to the propaganda you allow to manipulate your every thought, you will find the BS you are spewing is in fact BS. Where do companies like Apple and Nike have production facilities. How many of the top Democrat donors like Michael Bloomberg have connections in China? How many of the Big Tech companies are in China? It would be better for you if you started thinking for yourself instead of allowing yourself to be manipulated.
 
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aix_xpert

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This is all on Trump and his completely incompetent foreign policy team, most notably Peter Navarro and Mike Pompeo. What a mess they created!



I disagree that this is on Trump. The fact that we refuse to stand up to China while they thumb their nose at trading sanctions placed on a 3rd party country is about the current president. They again choose to avoid following the 'good actors' of the G8. What a Trump administration would have done is immediately imposed sanctions on China for this deal, but of course China would never have done this Iran deal with Trump in the White House. So no, this isn't on Trump. Feel free to dispute.
 
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Ponca Dan

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I disagree that this is on Trump. The fact that we refuse to stand up to China while they thumb their nose at trading sanctions placed on a 3rd party country is about the current president. They again choose to avoid following the 'good actors' of the G8. What a Trump administration would have done is immediately imposed sanctions on China for this deal, but of course China would never have done this Iran deal with Trump in the White House. So no, this isn't on Trump. Feel free to dispute.
We obviously have different world views. I think China would have relished the opportunity to poke DJT in the eye.
 

Tulsaaggieson

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We obviously have different world views. I think China would have relished the opportunity to poke DJT in the eye.
Note the Anchorage meeting. China did not openly insult the Trump administration, but then immediately insulted the Biden administration. You should be asking why.

I appreciate your world view. I don't agree with it, but I appreciate it as thought out and researched. It will be interesting to see how your views change over the next four years.
 
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soonerinlOUisiana

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fvck off, leftists
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You ask an excellent question. I don’t know if there is anything he could have done to prevent it, but there is no doubt the things he did exacerbated and accelerated the process. He unilaterally betrayed agreements with Iran that our government had signed in good faith, and followed that with crippling sanctions in an attempt to isolate Iran from the rest of the world. .
If there is nothing he could have done, then he is not the cause!!!!!!!!!! (pulling my hair out). And OUR government made NO agreements with Iran, as none were ever ratified by the Senate. The Obama cabal made the agreements. Americoms vs. Chicoms. or six of one and a half dozen of the other.
 
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