Sorry, Guys, We Can’t Blame This On Biden

Ponca Dan

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China and Russia never once, threatened Trump like that have threatened Biden.



I guess that begs the question of what you mean by “threatened.”

There were increased military tensions between the US and Russia in Syria and the Ukraine throughout Trump’s term in office. There were a couple of military incidents between the two countries during his administration, one of which threatened combat. China continued to build man made islands (military/naval installations) in the South China Sea in spite of Trump’s “orders” for them to stop. The US Navy has had to completely revamp its ship deployment around the world as a consequence. And there are continual “dust ups” between our ships and theirs in that region.

Diplomatically Russia pulled a “coup” of sorts when it persuaded our NATO ally, Turkey, to buy its anti-missle weaponry, as the Trump administration screamed bloody murder. China increased its influence in both Turkey and Pakistan while Trump’s people watched seemingly helplessly. India is slowly being “triangulated” by the Chinese, and this happened on Trump’s watch.

So you might want to rethink your comment, or at least explain what you think Trump did that Biden is failing to do.

This is very frustrating to me because I can barely tolerate the sight of Joe Biden, and his voice is like fingernails on a chalkboard. Between him and Trump I wanted Trump to win. But that doesn’t mean we should have turned a blind eye to Trump’s mistakes when he made them. This is especially true regarding foreign relations, both militarily and diplomatically. That’s the realm where one stupid mistake can lead to the annihilation of the planet.
 

Tulsaaggieson

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I guess that begs the question of what you mean by “threatened.”

There were increased military tensions between the US and Russia in Syria and the Ukraine throughout Trump’s term in office. There were a couple of military incidents between the two countries during his administration, one of which threatened combat. China continued to build man made islands (military/naval installations) in the South China Sea in spite of Trump’s “orders” for them to stop. The US Navy has had to completely revamp its ship deployment around the world as a consequence. And there are continual “dust ups” between our ships and theirs in that region.

Diplomatically Russia pulled a “coup” of sorts when it persuaded our NATO ally, Turkey, to buy its anti-missle weaponry, as the Trump administration screamed bloody murder. China increased its influence in both Turkey and Pakistan while Trump’s people watched seemingly helplessly. India is slowly being “triangulated” by the Chinese, and this happened on Trump’s watch.

So you might want to rethink your comment, or at least explain what you think Trump did that Biden is failing to do.

This is very frustrating to me because I can barely tolerate the sight of Joe Biden, and his voice is like fingernails on a chalkboard. Between him and Trump I wanted Trump to win. But that doesn’t mean we should have turned a blind eye to Trump’s mistakes when he made them. This is especially true regarding foreign relations, both militarily and diplomatically. That’s the realm where one stupid mistake can lead to the annihilation of the planet.
Your first point about Syria and Russia disproves the notion that Trump cozyed up to Russia. That being said Syria became less if a threat under Trump. More of threat while Biden was VP and now again as POTUS. FYI there is always a situation under every administration where there is a potential for escalation. So nope on the first point.

China has been ignoring the US and the world about the S China sea for a long time. Long before Trump. The Navy revamping a deployment also happens more than you think. A revamping could improve the Navy's response, and in this case it did after the Obama administration decimated not just the Navy but the military. Dust ups between China and the US military happen every year. Turkey purchases Russian weapons had been a process that had long started before Trump arrived on the scene. Turkey has long been the most shaky of allies in Nato. China and India have been hot for some time as well. Wow its like the US media doesn't tell the American people about what's going on in the world.

I can be even more critical of your statement here, as you called out some one for lack of knowledge when you yourself have a lack of knowledge. Now the world is a big place and I don't think any one person has all the answers or knowledge to put all them pieces together. So every input can be educational.
 

aix_xpert

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Your first point about Syria and Russia disproves the notion that Trump cozyed up to Russia. That being said Syria became less if a threat under Trump. More of threat while Biden was VP and now again as POTUS. FYI there is always a situation under every administration where there is a potential for escalation. So nope on the first point.

China has been ignoring the US and the world about the S China sea for a long time. Long before Trump. The Navy revamping a deployment also happens more than you think. A revamping could improve the Navy's response, and in this case it did after the Obama administration decimated not just the Navy but the military. Dust ups between China and the US military happen every year. Turkey purchases Russian weapons had been a process that had long started before Trump arrived on the scene. Turkey has long been the most shaky of allies in Nato. China and India have been hot for some time as well. Wow its like the US media doesn't tell the American people about what's going on in the world.

I can be even more critical of your statement here, as you called out some one for lack of knowledge when you yourself have a lack of knowledge. Now the world is a big place and I don't think any one person has all the answers or knowledge to put all them pieces together. So every input can be educational.

Btw, on Turkey, they have a right to be "shaky" among the NATO allies. They've borne the brunt of the Syrian Refugee crisis and serves as the gateway for those refugees into the rest of Europe. And almost every request for assistance has received token responses from other European countries.
 

Ponca Dan

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Your first point about Syria and Russia disproves the notion that Trump cozyed up to Russia. That being said Syria became less if a threat under Trump. More of threat while Biden was VP and now again as POTUS. FYI there is always a situation under every administration where there is a potential for escalation. So nope on the first point.

China has been ignoring the US and the world about the S China sea for a long time. Long before Trump. The Navy revamping a deployment also happens more than you think. A revamping could improve the Navy's response, and in this case it did after the Obama administration decimated not just the Navy but the military. Dust ups between China and the US military happen every year. Turkey purchases Russian weapons had been a process that had long started before Trump arrived on the scene. Turkey has long been the most shaky of allies in Nato. China and India have been hot for some time as well. Wow its like the US media doesn't tell the American people about what's going on in the world.

I can be even more critical of your statement here, as you called out some one for lack of knowledge when you yourself have a lack of knowledge. Now the world is a big place and I don't think any one person has all the answers or knowledge to put all them pieces together. So every input can be educational.
For the record I have never once intimated that I thought Trump ever cozied up to Russia, either in this thread or any other. I have been as critical as any - and more critical than most - at the drumbeat that Trump was beholden to Putin. So your initial point that what I wrote is evidence that Trump was not a Russian puppet has no bearing on this thread, or me, or anything I have said on the subject. My argument has never been that Trump was weak toward Russia and China. He did many many things to broadcast his strength. My argument is - and always has been - that many of his policies were in error, and some of them had the exact opposite effect he had hoped for.

I have neither said nor implied that China's naval buildup in the South China Sea was Trump's fault, or that it began under his administration. What I said was he instructed them in no uncertain terms to cease the buildup, and they ignored him, and continued adding to their strength there. I think that shows China "threatened" the US under Trump with the same zeal as when the renounced the US in Alaska. And, yes, the Navy is continually assessing how to deploy its ships. But to hear them tell it they are stretched thin around the world, and the threat from China in that region is causing them sleepless nights. None of that changed under Trump, which belies the notion that China operated in fear of the US under Trump's leadership.

I do not recall calling anyone out for having a lack of knowledge on the subject, but I have written so much on this thread I may have. I do not mean to imply that I have all the answers. Really I don't have any answers., at least none that the powers would listen to. So to whomever I called out for lack of knowledge, please accept my sincere apology.

The whole point of my last reply was to address the notion many on this board seem to have that Trump was unerring in every decision he made, he was absolutely flawless, which is utter nonsense. In this instance some on this board give the impression that Russia and China literally quaked in their boots in terror of the man. I find that to be ridiculous. And I have tried to point out instances where both Russia and China stood up to Trump without fear.
 

aix_xpert

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The whole point of my last reply was to address the notion many on this board seem to have that Trump was unerring in every decision he made, he was absolutely flawless, which is utter nonsense. In this instance some on this board give the impression that Russia and China literally quaked in their boots in terror of the man. I find that to be ridiculous. And I have tried to point out instances where both Russia and China stood up to Trump without fear.

I get this point and actually agree with it. Noone is perfect, and I'm pretty confident that even the most ardent Trump supporters don't think he got everything right. That said, us Trump supporters spent 4 years listening to him being criticized for EVERY action or statement made, and eventually that level of one-sided animosity leads to very one-sided defenses. There's no point in having a conversation or debate about the things that Trump may have done wrong with individuals who lack the intestinal fortitude to even acknowledge the things he did right.
 

Tulsaaggieson

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Fair enough. I read your statement this morning and felt it needed a lot context added. It was easy to read that as trump sucks get a helmet. Now that I feel like a Facebook fact checker, in that aspect I do apologize, if I come across as aggressive, I tried to ease off of that at the end. Don't' think I was successful.
 
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Tulsaaggieson

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Btw, on Turkey, they have a right to be "shaky" among the NATO allies. They've borne the brunt of the Syrian Refugee crisis and serves as the gateway for those refugees into the rest of Europe. And almost every request for assistance has received token responses from other European countries.
I'm going back further than that on Turkey. They have been shaky since before 2000.
 
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Ponca Dan

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Fair enough. I read your statement this morning and felt it needed a lot context added. It was easy to read that as trump sucks get a helmet. Now that I feel like a Facebook fact checker, in that aspect I do apologize, if I come across as aggressive, I tried to ease off of that at the end. Don't' think I was successful.
Not a problem. As a fifty+ year libertarian with anarchist overtones that doesn’t vote my skin has gotten pretty thick. I like to talk about ideas, and usually ignore personal insults. Your comment didn’t even register as particularly aggressive. You just came across as someone who disagreed with me. It’s all good.
 
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Syskatine

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This is all on Trump and his completely incompetent foreign policy team, most notably Peter Navarro and Mike Pompeo. What a mess they created!



I cant believe the contrast between Trump's bellicose rhetoric and his sick kitten, weak asian foreign policy. China just went crazy. Flagrantly violated their agreement and international law with Hong Kong, concentration camp(s) and atroctities towards ughurs, high tech surveillance, constructed naval bases wherever they want in international waters... trump was such a bitch. This is why we dont want entitled, born-rich little lord fauntleroys in positions of leadership. They lack courage.
 

Ponca Dan

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I cant believe the contrast between Trump's bellicose rhetoric and his sick kitten, weak asian foreign policy. China just went crazy. Flagrantly violated their agreement and international law with Hong Kong, concentration camp(s) and atroctities towards ughurs, high tech surveillance, constructed naval bases wherever they want in international waters... trump was such a bitch. This is why we dont want entitled, born-rich little lord fauntleroys in positions of leadership. They lack courage.
While much that you say is true about Trump’s administration, the sad fact is it’s true of every presidential administration since China joined the WTO, and probably as far back as the Nixon years.
 

aix_xpert

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This is why we dont want entitled, born-rich little lord fauntleroys in positions of leadership. They lack courage.

No, we'd rather have 50 year career politicians who have managed to be become multi-millionaires (several times over) on the backs of their "public service". Great trade there. :p
 

07pilt

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No, we'd rather have 50 year career politicians who have managed to be become multi-millionaires (several times over) on the backs of their "public service". Great trade there. :p
Yeah we wouldn't want a president who got rich off of <checks notes> drawing a salary and writing some books.
 

aix_xpert

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Yeah we wouldn't want a president who got rich off of <checks notes> drawing a salary and writing some books.

Lol. Yes, I love it when my government officials can turn political careers into multi-generational wealth. That seems to align to 'public service'.
 

Syskatine

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Lol. Yes, I love it when my government officials can turn political careers into multi-generational wealth. That seems to align to 'public service'.

Lol i love that maga gives a shit about kids and honesty now that they lost.
 

2012Bearcat

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While much that you say is true about Trump’s administration, the sad fact is it’s true of every presidential administration since China joined the WTO, and probably as far back as the Nixon years.

You tried to berate me for saying our China problems went back to Nixon, now you are saying our problems probably go back to Nixon? Not a big deal just thought I would take a little jab all in fun,
 
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Ponca Dan

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You tried to berate me for saying our China problems went back to Nixon, now you are saying our problems probably go back to Nixon? Not a big deal just thought I would take a little jab all in fun,
I deserve the jab! Thinking about it I suppose we could say our problems go back to Adam & Eve.
 
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