So the roster…….

[PD4thespawn]

No basement for me, but the best feeling in the world is when those doors opened at the end of practice and you got that gush of cooler air.

About half way thru practice coach would have us go to the gym to run laps. It felt like walking into Central air. Then you heard the b-ballers. They seemed so entitled. At least shit talk and once in a while someone would go out of bounds and this train ain't stopping. Yeah, fun times. Then back to the boiler room. Looking back on it coach probably didn't like b-ballers either and felt it bonded us.

 

[TheJimReaper]

I’m not expecting Brayden Thompson to become an offensive dynamo but I would like him to shoot consistently.

 

[Howie_Fartz]

You get Spratley, Jamison/Young/Williams and Fish on the podium and Hughes and Carroll are what we think they are... we could miss on the two big transfers and still come in second next March in my opinion. Been trying to say this, but was called an idiot for pointing it out. Seriously think you're looking at 8 AAs next season.

This isn't a rebuild... Team will be competitive immediately and I stand fast in my opinion that would be true regardless of the coach, although having these fresh eyes and perspectives on it will be great and probably accelerate the competitiveness of this program.

I was pumped about the future before last Monday. In the last week the excitement has reached a new level (after the initial shock and, yes, disappointment, wore off).

You were called an idiot by Willie because you were focused on next year and in Willie's mind the David Taylor hire is NOT about next year but for the next several years. You think DT should make it a priority to keep the team intact. I get that but Coach Taylor has made it clear.... he wants guys that WANT to be there, that want to wrestle for him and OSU. Guys will have to make stronger commitments and if they're not interested in doing that then see ya. Does Oklahoma State have some great talent in the room? Absolutely but don't get it twisted Lee.

 

[Howie_Fartz]

I’m not expecting Brayden Thompson to become an offensive dynamo but I would like him to shoot consistently.

People keep saying they think he has great potential..... If he cant go get a td he will never AA. I don't care how highly ranked of a recruit he was. Anyone remember Dallas Bailey?

 

[Air_Thurman]

You were called an idiot by Willie because you were focused on next year and in Willie's mind the David Taylor hire is NOT about next year but for the next several years. You think DT should make it a priority to keep the team intact. I get that but Coach Taylor has made it clear.... he wants guys that WANT to be there, that want to wrestle for him and OSU. Guys will have to make stronger commitments and if they're not interested in doing that then see ya. Does Oklahoma State have some great talent in the room? Absolutely but don't get it twisted Lee.

Not stick up for Lee (he doesn't need it) but I don't think Lee said DT should be focused on next year. Lee said there is a lot of talent in the room that should be a priority in keeping. After listening to DT, Gillman and Kennedy's interview I think DT agreed with Lee. Re-recruiting the guys in the room was one of the first things they all talked about.

 

[TheJimReaper]

People keep saying they think he has great potential..... If he cant go get a td he will never AA. I don't care how highly ranked of a recruit he was. Anyone remember Dallas Bailey?

I mean he can get takedowns when he tries. His main problem is he rarely does.

 

[Okie_Pat]

BT has to change his demeanor on the mat. He showed flashes of what he's capable of last year when he's totally locked in during the match, but to really unlock his full potential he needs a RS and hopefully that will come with more maturity and focus. To his credit he was a true FR wrestling at a mans weight class. I thought he would get more physical and aggressive through the season wrestling with Plott but that didn't appear to happen.

 

[tom_v31]

You get Spratley, Jamison/Young/Williams and Fish on the podium and Hughes and Carroll are what we think they are... we could miss on the two big transfers and still come in second next March in my opinion. Been trying to say this, but was called an idiot for pointing it out. Seriously think you're looking at 8 AAs next season.

This isn't a rebuild... Team will be competitive immediately and I stand fast in my opinion that would be true regardless of the coach, although having these fresh eyes and perspectives on it will be great and probably accelerate the competitiveness of this program.

I was pumped about the future before last Monday. In the last week the excitement has reached a new level (after the initial shock and, yes, disappointment, wore off).

100%

 

[Howie_Fartz]

I mean he can get takedowns when he tries. His main problem is he rarely does.

Go bk and count how many offensive TDs he had (not counters to someone else's attack). It wont be many.

 

[Howie_Fartz]

Not stick up for Lee (he doesn't need it) but I don't think Lee said DT should be focused on next year. Lee said there is a lot of talent in the room that should be a priority in keeping. After listening to DT, Gillman and Kennedy's interview I think DT agreed with Lee. Re-recruiting the guys in the room was one of the first things they all talked about.

Lee wanted his first priority to be the current guys. Coach Taylor is looking at building a program that is consistently challenging for titles. That may or may not start w/ the current starters we have. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of several of the current guys but I guarantee you DT is focusing on the big picture.

 

[Air_Thurman]

Lee wanted his first priority to be the current guys. Coach Taylor is looking at building a program that is consistently challenging for titles. That may or may not start w/ the current starters we have. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of several of the current guys but I guarantee you DT is focusing on the big picture.

I agree with you 100%. I think DT is focused on the long-term and that doesn't mean you keep the current roster intact if it doesn't align with your vision. All I'm saying is after listening to all the new coaches interviews making inroads with the current roster was talked about a lot. As of now, it looks like current roster retention was a point of emphasis for the coaches. Maybe that changes in the coming months after some more practices.

 

[Pennstate1985]

I was just pointing out that there is a chance for him to have this team immediately competitive because they were already going to be competitive... and the talent there needs to be kept and that should be an early focus for DT.

I think OSU has a great shot at 2nd place next year.

As for talent needing to be kept, my response is that the talent needs to conform to the new culture first. The "new culture" is the foundation for the program going forward so anyone staying needs to "buy in". My example is Bubba Jenkins. He didn't like the new culture or decisions made and was shown the door. He won a title at ASU the next year but the PSU team was sent a clear message that it's "my way or the highway". I don't see that being different at OSU.

 

[Howie_Fartz]

I agree with you 100%. I think DT is focused on the long-term and that doesn't mean you keep the current roster intact if it doesn't align with your vision. All I'm saying is after listening to all the new coaches interviews making inroads with the current roster was talked about a lot. As of now, it looks like current roster retention was a point of emphasis for the coaches. Maybe that changes in the coming months after some more practices.

I think Coach Taylor and his staff have went out of their way to be sensitive to the situation and I think that's awesome. At the same time he has emphasized about wanting guys that WANT to be there and wrestle for Oklahoma State.

 

[Howie_Fartz]

Of course that's true and I absolutely agree that the culture needs to be established, and if somebody doesn't want to buy in then they should have their waiver signed and be helped to find a new roster.

It's a two way street. DT is going to outline his expectations and then conversations will be had on if there's buy-in... my point is that outlining those expectations and selling the current roster on buying in is on the new staff to do. If they do that with this roster, then they can be competitive for a national title in 2026.

If I'm not mistaken what your comment that elicited that response from Willie was "his first priority needs to be". Look I really don't give a damn but Willie is a straight shooter and there's a reason he said that.

 

[Pennstate1985]

I would expect there to be a zero tolerance "no drinking" policy in season. I would expect there to be a curfew. I would expect a clear expectation on going to classes and maintaining GPA. I would expect tutors will be available (I assume you already have that) and used. I would expect following the nutritionist advice to a tee. I would expect year round involvement in the program. Abide or consequences.

Edit to add that DT and staff will also make promises to each wrestler regarding honesty, access, and training. As Lee Cochran stated, it is a two way street. You can't elicit promises without making some of your own.

 

[Mr.OSU]

I would expect there to be a "no drinking" policy in season. I would expect there to be a curfew. I would expect a clear expectation on going to classes and maintaining GPA. I would expect tutors will be available (I assume you already have that) and used. I would expect year round involvement in the program. Abide or consequences.

Old school ok state in the Hendricks and rosholt days was a different animal lol.

 

[Air_Thurman]

I think Coach Taylor and his staff have went out of their way to be sensitive to the situation and I think that's awesome. At the same time he has emphasized about wanting guys that WANT to be there and wrestle for Oklahoma State.

Of course, but if your no. 1 goal is guys who WANT to be at Oklahoma State then guys who are at Oklahoma State is a decent start.

I trust DT to handle the roster how he sees fit. If we saw/see mass transfers I wouldn't panic. All I'm saying is I was surprised to see how much DT and the coaches talked about the current roster. It was a real theme. Now maybe it is all lip service in the short term but I listened to those interviews coming away that Lee wasn't an "idiot" like Willie thought.

 

[Howie_Fartz]

Of course, but if your no. 1 goal is guys how WANT to be at Oklahoma State then guys who are at Oklahoma State is a decent start.

I trust DT to handle the roster how he sees fit. If we saw/see mass transfers I wouldn't panic. All I'm saying is I was surprised to see how much DT and the coaches talked about the current roster. It was a real theme. Now maybe it is all lip service in the short term but I listened to those interviews coming away that Lee wasn't an "idiot" like Willie thought.

Would you expect him to come in as a total A-hole? Lol, just playing devils advocate here. Of course he wants to keep talented guys that are all in. But the culture will and should come first.

 

[tom_v31]

I think what he will do is focus on a few guys he feels can be contenders and try to get a national champ or two next year and build on that. That’s what Cael did with him and Ed Ruth. John was always about having a complete team and focusing in on duels. I liked that but it didn’t always translate at NCAAs. Duels are fan friendly though

 

[Pennstate1985]

I think what he will do is focus on a few guys he feels can be contenders and try to get a national champ or two next year and build on that. That’s what Cael did with him and Ed Ruth. John was always about having a complete team and focusing in on duels. I liked that but it didn’t always translate at NCAAs. Duels are fan friendly though

Last year was the worst year I can remember as a fan of PSU wrestling until NCAAs. The schedule sucked donkey balls. Boring. Uninteresting. Yet I knew it had a purpose. The goal is NCAAs. The prize. Duals are to get the team ready for nationals. I sincerely hope for your sake that David is more fan friendly when it comes to scheduling. Hell, I don't even think we hit the max number of dates we could wrestle last year. I know the point is to win NCAAs but please blow a kiss to the fans occasionally.

 

[tom_v31]

Last year was the worst year I can remember as a fan of PSU wrestling until NCAAs. The schedule sucked donkey balls. Boring. Uninteresting. Yet I knew it had a purpose. The goal is NCAAs. The prize. Duals are to get the team ready for nationals. I sincerely hope for your sake that David is more fan friendly when it comes to scheduling. Hell, I don't even think we hit the max number of dates we could wrestle last year. I know the point is to win NCAAs but please blow a kiss to the fans occasionally.

I can see what you are saying. PSU almost never duels👎🏻. Duels are for the fans

 

[Howie_Fartz]

I'm a little concerned about the schedule. Was talking with a friend of mine and he pointed out that we had a ton of home duals the latter part of the season which may well mean we have very few this next season in Jan and Feb. I'd love to see the schedule a little more evened out so to speak and I really hope they continue going to the CKLV.

 

[skylinepoke]

Last year was the worst year I can remember as a fan of PSU wrestling until NCAAs. The schedule sucked donkey balls. Boring. Uninteresting. Yet I knew it had a purpose. The goal is NCAAs. The prize. Duals are to get the team ready for nationals. I sincerely hope for your sake that David is more fan friendly when it comes to scheduling. Hell, I don't even think we hit the max number of dates we could wrestle last year. I know the point is to win NCAAs but please blow a kiss to the fans occasionally.

Several of us were discussing what changes we will see in our duel meets. JS would wrestle anyone, anywhere, any time. I thought we had a really good schedule last year and part of me would like to continue scheduling like that. But, I'm not the coach and I could see DT soften the schedule somewhat as he points the team to Nationals.

 

[chasepollard]

I'm a little concerned about the schedule. Was talking with a friend of mine and he pointed out that we had a ton of home duals the latter part of the season which may well mean we have very few this next season in Jan and Feb. I'd love to see the schedule a little more evened out so to speak and I really hope they continue going to the CKLV.

I don't see why its all or nothing?

Why can't you have a great dual schedule to elicit fan excitement and also get guys reps going full blast. Redshirts aren't burnt immediately, so let those guys get a taste. Backups/depth guys are working their tail off in the room, so let them eat some too.

I know the fans want to see the big names, but really, they just want to see Wrestling and perform well in March.

I do believe it is unwise to have a Fix or a Plott entering the tourney with 25-30 matches. But, they can prepare very well with 15-20 and be pretty fresh.

 

[Okie_Pat]

Should be around 14-15 duals and CKLV.

 

[tom_v31]

I don't see why its all or nothing?

Why can't you have a great dual schedule to elicit fan excitement and also get guys reps going full blast. Redshirts aren't burnt immediately, so let those guys get a taste. Backups/depth guys are working their tail off in the room, so let them eat some too.

I know the fans want to see the big names, but really, they just want to see Wrestling and perform well in March.

I do believe it is unwise to have a Fix or a Plott entering the tourney with 25-30 matches. But, they can prepare very well with 15-20 and be pretty fresh.

Some wrestlers do better with higher reps. I always thought Fix did. Often college wrestlers do so well in free style is b/c they are coming off an intense season.

 

[Pennstate1985]

I don't see why its all or nothing?

Why can't you have a great dual schedule to elicit fan excitement and also get guys reps going full blast. Redshirts aren't burnt immediately, so let those guys get a taste. Backups/depth guys are working their tail off in the room, so let them eat some too.

I know the fans want to see the big names, but really, they just want to see Wrestling and perform well in March.

I do believe it is unwise to have a Fix or a Plott entering the tourney with 25-30 matches. But, they can prepare very well with 15-20 and be pretty fresh.

Risk management, and your last statement is exactly the mindset. Why wrestle 30 times if 20 times will do? Guys now barely wrestle 100 times in a career now. The sport has become results based and not fan based. But they are only following the money.

 

[chasepollard]

Some wrestlers do better with higher reps. I always thought Fix did. Often college wrestlers do so well in free style is b/c they are coming off an intense season.

Old hat…not to be offensive. But NLWC proves my point this year.

When the room is stout, health and plan can be an outstanding tool. It’s clearly being proven by Cael.

 

[chasepollard]

Risk management, and your last statement is exactly the mindset. Why wrestle 30 times if 20 times will do? Guys now barely wrestle 100 times in a career now. The sport has become results based and not fan based. But they are only following the money.

Pretty much my thoughts.

But I think 100 career wins is a great goal/jumping off point for elite guys. Risk management is paramount when the NCAAS are the bench test.

The international scene is the certificate being chased now.

 

[Old Number Nine]

My four years in college (’78 to ‘81) were a great time to watch wrestling. Sadly, in ’78 I only saw the last Bedlam match but was lucky enough to see the ’78 Big 12s. I got to see Jesse Jackson pin three sad people and Dave Schultz wrestle three times as a Cowboy.

Wrestling has greatly changed since my first season. The last record book I downloaded (can't find one now) shows we have had 19 wrestlers with 40+ match seasons; 16 in the 80s-90s (John Smith 47 & 43, plus a 39), 2 in ‘00s (Hendricks and Reggie Wright) and 1 in the 70's (Lee Roy). Barbee had 49, Baze 48 then John 47.

The strange thing about this is that during the time that our wrestlers were racking up those 40+ and high 30s seasons, I can only remember a few injuries that affected our wrestlers in the nationals; Eric Wais and Steven Schmidt are the only ones I remember. I’m sure there are more that were hampered by injuries that did affect them.

Home date numbers have gone up and down, year to year. Of late it seems like we were trending down but last year was an up year. I would be deeply saddened if the new guard decided to de-emphasis duals as that is where fans are acquired. DT is going to bring back the casual fan just by showing up but to get where we want to be we need to bring in people like I was… totally disinterested in wrestling but went because I heard it was a lot of fun.

 

[chasepollard]

My four years in college (’78 to ‘81) were a great time to watch wrestling. Sadly, in ’78 I only saw the last Bedlam match but was lucky enough to see the ’78 Big 12s. I got to see Jesse Jackson pin three sad people and Dave Schultz wrestle three times as a Cowboy.

Wrestling has greatly changed since my first season. The last record book I downloaded (can't find one now) shows we have had 19 wrestlers with 40+ match seasons; 16 in the 80s-90s (John Smith 47 & 43, plus a 39), 2 in ‘00s (Hendricks and Reggie Wright) and 1 in the 70's (Lee Roy). Barbee had 49, Baze 48 then John 47.

The strange thing about this is that during the time that our wrestlers were racking up those 40+ and high 30s seasons, I can only remember a few injuries that affected our wrestlers in the nationals; Eric Wais and Steven Schmidt are the only ones I remember. I’m sure there are more that were hampered by injuries that did affect them.

Home date numbers have gone up and down, year to year. Of late it seems like we were trending down but last year was an up year. I would be deeply saddened if the new guard decided to de-emphasis duals as that is where fans are acquired. DT is going to bring back the casual fan just by showing up but to get where we want to be we need to bring in people like I was… totally disinterested in wrestling but went because I heard it was a lot of fun.

I hope this comment finds you well!?

Great monologue, but that idea belongs in that era, 45 years ago.

Now fans are made in March and every 4 years. If you have 5 returning finalists, every home dual is sold out.

 

[mcpat]

I’d like to better understand the decrease in collegiate matches wrestled. I think it is some combination or subset of:

• Elite wrestlers come to college with far more wear and tear than before. They wrestle more matches than they used to and treat it as a year round sport.

• College wrestlers are wrestling more freestyle in the offseason. It’s not only more matches but also year round practice too.

• There’s more scrambling than before with greater injury risk.

• The extra season due to Covid. Not a lot of matches wrestled, but it’s another (partial) year in the room and +1 in age.

• More emphasis on preventing injury than before

 

[smalls103]

Obviously. I'm not that stupid.

Well, hold on now...

i called you an idiot for three reasons

1) b/c you're an idiot

2) b/c it was abundantly clear that the reason you were acting like someone pissed in your cheerios is because you were scared your buddies might leave.

which is a whole bag of issues unto itself. they weren't your buddies. they didn't give you access or inside info at all.

you spent two weeks railing against progress to preserve some non-existent inside info that, in your mind, made a podcast with 7 listeners legit.

(later, you literally admitted this was the case)

3) you were clear that you were worried about who might leave in the portal, and what guys in the portal you wouldn't get. that's like the last thing to be concerned with if you legitimately want what's best for the program.

 

[Pennstate1985]

Pretty much my thoughts.

But I think 100 career wins is a great goal/jumping off point for elite guys. Risk management is paramount when the NCAAS are the bench test.

The international scene is the certificate being chased now.

I think NIL potential along with being healthy for int'l competition are other important reasons why total career bouts are being decreased, but as Old Number Nine shows, the trend started before NIL began but seems to have accelerated with NIL in place.

This stat is wild. I'm using PSU guys because I don't have yours handy.

DT and Ed Ruth graduated in 2014 with 137 and 139 matches wrestled, respectively. Cael's first graduating group with him all years.

Bo Nickal and Jason Nolf graduated in 2019 with 123 and 120 matches, respectively.

Aaron Brooks and Carter Starocci graduated(4 years) in 2024 with 92 and 82 matches, respectively. Brooks was over five seasons.

So in a 10 year time period in five year increments, you can see the trendline accelerating as the new graduates wrestled on average 10-12 less bouts per year than 10 years ago. That's a massive change in a ten year period without any serious injury keeping any of them out of the lineups for a long period. Obviously it's purposeful but what the exact reasons for it are is up for discussion.

For comparison, Cael had wrestled 159 times when he graduated in 2002. John Smith had 163 when he graduated in 1988. Tom Brands had 167 in 1991.

 

[tom_v31]

So you

Well, hold on now...

i called you an idiot for three reasons

1) b/c you're an idiot

2) b/c it was abundantly clear that the reason you were acting like someone pissed in your cheerios is because you were scared your buddies might leave.

which is a whole bag of issues unto itself. they weren't your buddies. they didn't give you access or inside info at all.

you spent two weeks railing against progress to preserve some non-existent inside info that, in your mind, made a podcast with 7 listeners legit.

(later, you literally admitted this was the case)

3) you were clear that you were worried about who might leave in the portal, and what guys in the portal you wouldn't get. that's like the last thing to be concerned with if you legitimately want what's best for the program.

Just so you know, we don’t appreciate the slurs on this message forum, no matter who you are. You don’t have to call people idiots.

 

[slickr3]

No lies here. You've got me figured out

Willie told zero lies.

 

[Air_Thurman]

They aren't mutually exclusive concepts IMO. DT doesn't need to keep the roster to intact for fear of competing next year. In the grand scheme of thing next year is not important at all. However, there are a lot of guys on this roster who can help DT achieve his long term goals quicker. Guys like Lockett, Hughes, Merrill, Carroll, Plott, Fix all align with what DT said he wants: guys who want to be Cowboys and guys who want to be Olympic champions.

People have mentioned but when Cael took over PSU he did bring in a lot of new guys. He also had some core guys already in the room who super charged the rebuild.

 

[alex1fly]

Well, hold on now...

i called you an idiot for three reasons

1) b/c you're an idiot

2) b/c it was abundantly clear that the reason you were acting like someone pissed in your cheerios is because you were scared your buddies might leave.

which is a whole bag of issues unto itself. they weren't your buddies. they didn't give you access or inside info at all.

you spent two weeks railing against progress to preserve some non-existent inside info that, in your mind, made a podcast with 7 listeners legit.

(later, you literally admitted this was the case)

3) you were clear that you were worried about who might leave in the portal, and what guys in the portal you wouldn't get. that's like the last thing to be concerned with if you legitimately want what's best for the program.

Lol chill bro

 

[alex1fly]

That's exactly what I said. Wasn't being facetious.



This is all I was trying to say and I obviously communicated that poorly. Tried to clear it up later on but that didn't work either. For sure need to sit a few plays out.

Anyone being hella rude about disagreeing with another poster's speculation - because that's what this all is, speculation - needs to sit a few plays out. IMO. FFS. FYI. lol

Just gonna be part of the deal as this forum gets more participation, the other wrestling forums I've seen are full of sh*t talking

 

[AtownPoke]

Well, hold on now...

i called you an idiot for three reasons

1) b/c you're an idiot

2) b/c it was abundantly clear that the reason you were acting like someone pissed in your cheerios is because you were scared your buddies might leave.

which is a whole bag of issues unto itself. they weren't your buddies. they didn't give you access or inside info at all.

you spent two weeks railing against progress to preserve some non-existent inside info that, in your mind, made a podcast with 7 listeners legit.

(later, you literally admitted this was the case)

3) you were clear that you were worried about who might leave in the portal, and what guys in the portal you wouldn't get. that's like the last thing to be concerned with if you legitimately want what's best for the program.

Anyone being hella rude about disagreeing with another poster's speculation - because that's what this all is, speculation - needs to sit a few plays out. IMO. FFS. FYI. lol

Just gonna be part of the deal as this forum gets more participation, the other wrestling forums I've seen are full of sh*t talking

Well smalls isn’t like the rest of us lol. He can say whatever he wants and does. Perks of being the top guy in the business. The fact he takes the time to hang around some surprises me but is pretty cool for the board imo.