San Diego Synagogue

[MegaPoke]

Radical violent muslims are not in 100 of millions they are a very small minority.
Most of the radicals follow the saudi form of islam both al qaida and isis belong
to the same salafi wahabi strain.What happened in sri lanka same group.
IT is not the question of whether west brook has only 20 members they use the word baptist and i know it has confused people outside US. Infact my mother was in the hospital and I was talking to the nurse on duty and asked her if she was catholic or protestant(Catholics form majority in christians in Pakistan) and she said she was baptist and I repeated it and she said not the American form of baptist but real baptist,
when I queried further she meant west brook.
As far as your university it is mine as much as yours,you just hopped in a car and got admitted i flew 10,000 miles. It took a letter more than a week to arrive to Pakistan.
We couldn't afford to call back to our parents because it was very expensive.
When I read about a recruit turning our offer down because stillwater was too far from
his home town it makes me laugh.
I don't remember where I read the cage story,whether it was osu or some other southern univ but wasn't meant to demean osu but to show how much things have changed.
Christianity is 2100 years old Islam is 1400(i am not putting it as an excuse)
read about Christianity when it was 1400 yrs old. Most of the muslims in the world are poor and illeterate people(No thanks to Christian colonization) who are easily swayed
by a mullahs logic,The quran they read is in arabic they dont know what it means because they dont understand arabic they have to depend on their mullahs to understand what islam means.Our maid who is totally illeterate cannot read a word of urdu(national language) or any other language beside quran which she reads every day religiously without understanding a single word.
It is amazing that i am gold member of this board and you talk to me as i was a foreigner who knows nothing about your culture.I know I am not accepted maybe because i am too liberal or because i am a pakistani.

Well you’ve got the victim mentality down.

 

[aliabedi]

I would love to through this line by line, but you are going to have to use paragraphs or multiple posts.

You made a completely false statement about OSU and putting people in cages. How many times have you repeated that over the years?

Yes, 100’s of millions of Muslims think murder is justified for religious reasons. Yes Islam is 500 years behind Christians. How old is judiasm? Somehow Christians and Jews figured it out. It’s 2019. The caveman days are over. Look at Iran and Afghanistan. Islam is dragging down what could have been modern countries in 2019. Islam needs a colonic.


Without the riches of oil where would the Middle East be?

Actually I have never mentioned that story ever,I think I lost my cool and I thought I had
read it some where I was wrong and I apologized I think that should end that story.
How many foreign alums come on this board specially from Asia. I do it not come to rile you,i come because I have a soft spot for OSU and oklahoma because I lived there for 10 yrs
and met some very nice and friendly people.
I dont want to get into a theological debate with you about Islam,but if you would take my word as a practicing muslim, Islam is as good or as bad as any religion.
Have you ever talked to a muslim before? your knowledge of Islam is based on jihadi propaganda, the Islam I believe in is 180 degrees opposite of it.
Mid-east with oil does not even make 1% of muslim population so stop comparing
arabs or saudi with the entire muslim population.
If you can believe this we are more peace loving people than you imagine.
100 millions of muslim believe that killing is wrong and all people are willing to kill
for a principles,what happened in 2nd world war or vietnam war they were fought on principles.
Thank you ponca dan I strongly believe that sticks and stones may break my bones but words won't hurt me.
My basic reason for standing up for Islam is there are so many misconceptions
about this religion after 9/11 that some body has to defend it.
If just one person on this board would read a little bit about Islam that would be enough for me.

 

[HighStickHarry]

I have a history degree and I took all of the Islamic history classes offered by the osu history department (I think 4) and there were many Muslims in those classes. We had great conversations. The professor was extremely sympathetic to the Muslim perspective and would probably be labeled an anti Semite in 2019 just for giving that perspective.

I also worked at the registrars office and watched Muslims treat our women staff like dirt or flat out refuse to speak with them.

I also hung out at the stonewall for about four years.

I’m calling bullshit on 1% of Muslims live in countries impacted by oil wealth. There’s no way that’s true. If it is, show me a stat and I’ll apologize.

I do agree there are 100 millions of Muslims who think murdering fir religious reasons is wrong. Both can be true due to almost 2 billion muskims.

 

[Ostatedchi]

Why are so many Muslims suffering? Might it have to do with an oppressive government based on your religion?

Iran pre and post revolution is my example.

@aliabedi why no answer to my question in this thread?

You say that the reason for Islamist Terrorists (regardless if they are actually Muslim, they claim it) is because they are suffering. Well, WHY are they suffering seems like a hugely important question that you just don't seem to want to answer.

Could it be that your religious based governmental system IS the root cause? If not, what is?

 

[aliabedi]

Population of
1) saudi 32.94 million
2) iraq 38.27 million
3)uae 9.4 million
4) kuwait 4.137 million
5)qatar 2.639 million
6) bahrain 1.493 million
Have you ever thought that they were uncomfortable or shy with as you put it
with your women

 

[aliabedi]

@aliabedi why no answer to my question in this thread?

You say that the reason for Islamist Terrorists (regardless if they are actually Muslim, they claim it) is because they are suffering. Well, WHY are they suffering seems like a hugely important question that you just don't seem to want to answer.

Could it be that your religious based governmental system IS the root cause? If not, what is?

I did not say the leadership is suffering the people they sell their ideas to are and looking for a solution for better life.
We in Pakistan we have a democracy and quite liberal by muslim standards,we have free press not like yours because religion cannot be made fun of.
Al qaida was a direct product of soviet unions capture of afghanistan where US with collaboration with saudi arabia started a jihadi movement which displaced soviets and at the same time the jihadist decided why not rest of the world. Osama biggest beef was american troops in saudi arabia hence hatred for saudi government and american.
ISIS was result of american attack on Iraq where 20% of sunnis were ruling 67%
of shia population, After the war suddenly shia came into power and the sunnis
couldn;t take it,.
saudi initially funded them then they got out of their control.
Then suddenly this guy baghdadi declared himself kalif for all muslims.and
that lasted for a short time, Now they are al qaida creating chaos and mayhem.
since they are in small groups they are hard to identify,

 

[MegaPoke]

I did not say the leadership is suffering the people they sell their ideas to are and looking for a solution for better life.
We in Pakistan we have a democracy and quite liberal by muslim standards,we have free press not like yours because religion cannot be made fun of.
Al qaida was a direct product of soviet unions capture of afghanistan where US with collaboration with saudi arabia started a jihadi movement which displaced soviets and at the same time the jihadist decided why not rest of the world. Osama biggest beef was american troops in saudi arabia hence hatred for saudi government and american.
ISIS was result of american attack on Iraq where 20% of sunnis were ruling 67%
of shia population, After the war suddenly shia came into power and the sunnis
couldn;t take it,.
saudi initially funded them then they got out of their control.
Then suddenly this guy baghdadi declared himself kalif for all muslims.and
that lasted for a short time, Now they are al qaida creating chaos and mayhem.
since they are in small groups they are hard to identify,

I'm kinda tired of the fvcking excuses myself. Islam needs to fix itself. Period.

 

[Ostatedchi]

I did not say the leadership is suffering the people they sell their ideas to are and looking for a solution for better life.
We in Pakistan we have a democracy and quite liberal by muslim standards,we have free press not like yours because religion cannot be made fun of.
Al qaida was a direct product of soviet unions capture of afghanistan where US with collaboration with saudi arabia started a jihadi movement which displaced soviets and at the same time the jihadist decided why not rest of the world. Osama biggest beef was american troops in saudi arabia hence hatred for saudi government and american.
ISIS was result of american attack on Iraq where 20% of sunnis were ruling 67%
of shia population, After the war suddenly shia came into power and the sunnis
couldn;t take it,.
saudi initially funded them then they got out of their control.
Then suddenly this guy baghdadi declared himself kalif for all muslims.and
that lasted for a short time, Now they are al qaida creating chaos and mayhem.
since they are in small groups they are hard to identify,

I know you THINK you answered my question but in reality you did everything but answer it.

 

[Ostatedchi]

I did not say the leadership is suffering the people they sell their ideas to are and looking for a solution for better life.
We in Pakistan we have a democracy and quite liberal by muslim standards,we have free press not like yours because religion cannot be made fun of.
Al qaida was a direct product of soviet unions capture of afghanistan where US with collaboration with saudi arabia started a jihadi movement which displaced soviets and at the same time the jihadist decided why not rest of the world. Osama biggest beef was american troops in saudi arabia hence hatred for saudi government and american.
ISIS was result of american attack on Iraq where 20% of sunnis were ruling 67%
of shia population, After the war suddenly shia came into power and the sunnis
couldn;t take it,.
saudi initially funded them then they got out of their control.
Then suddenly this guy baghdadi declared himself kalif for all muslims.and
that lasted for a short time, Now they are al qaida creating chaos and mayhem.
since they are in small groups they are hard to identify,

So much incorrect history and causal relationships that it isn't even worth trying to break this down.

 

[aliabedi]

I am not giving excuses. Jihad in quran is mentioned 6 times and not always in context
of war. Education is mentioned 36 times.Highstickharry if you have taken 4 history classes on muslim history then you are aware of the enlightment period of islam.
Muslims made big progress in mathemetics,astronomy,medicine and chemistry.
Great poetryand literature. then came the mongols and destroyed all libraries and killed the intellectuals.
then came the mullahs who blamed the defeat of muslims because they had gone away from Allah.
And since this is what you see

 

[22LR]

The only thing this proves is that you’ll go through any lengths to stick your head in the sand and ignore the problem.

 

[aliabedi]

I have a history degree and I took all of the Islamic history classes offered by the osu history department (I think 4) and there were many Muslims in those classes. We had great conversations. The professor was extremely sympathetic to the Muslim perspective and would probably be labeled an anti Semite in 2019 just for giving that perspective.

I also worked at the registrars office and watched Muslims treat our women staff like dirt or flat out refuse to speak with them.

I also hung out at the stonewall for about four years.

I’m calling bullshit on 1% of Muslims live in countries impacted by oil wealth. There’s no way that’s true. If it is, show me a stat and I’ll apologize.

I do agree there are 100 millions of Muslims who think murdering fir religious reasons is wrong. Both can be true due to almost 2 billion muskims.

Waiting for your apology

 

[HighStickHarry]

Waiting for your apology

I’m sorry what? I know there is a language barrier here, but was that list of countries supposed to be the only Muslim countries sell oil? And then something about being shy towards women?

 

[aliabedi]

I’m sorry what? I know there is a language barrier here, but was that list of countries supposed to be the only Muslim countries sell oil? And then something about being shy towards women?

In the mid east these are the countries. When you talked about muslims guys who were rude to american women.that is what meant they could be shy or very uncomfortable around american money.

 

[aliabedi]

I meant american women

 

[BvillePoker]

Please explain something to me.
When a Christian or white supremacist kills a black or a Jew it is a
hate crime.
If an American Muslim does it, it is called terrorism WHY?

I have not read through this whole thread so someone may have already said this. Just did not want to wade through the BS to see. The difference is right there in the definition of terrorism. "the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims." We may be talking semantics here, but if someone says I don't like jews and I want them all dead that is a hate crime. On the other hand an organization that tries to affect political decisions by other countries; i.e the whole world should adopt sharia law and if you do not you will be harmed. That is terrorism. It is the motivation and the goal that distinguishes the two. However they both are terrifying.

 

[aliabedi]

I have not read through this whole thread so someone may have already said this. Just did not want to wade through the BS to see. The difference is right there in the definition of terrorism. "the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims." We may be talking semantics here, but if someone says I don't like jews and I want them all dead that is a hate crime. On the other hand an organization that tries to affect political decisions by other countries; i.e the whole world should adopt sharia law and if you do not you will be harmed. That is terrorism. It is the motivation and the goal that distinguishes the two. However they both are terrifying.

Agreed

 

[HighStickHarry]

In the mid east these are the countries. When you talked about muslims guys who were rude to american women.that is what meant they could be shy or very uncomfortable around american money.

My original comment was about how much worse the Middle East would be today without oil. I’m not sure we are talking about the same thing, but you don’t have Iran, Syria, turkey.

As far as being shy, I’m shy. That doesn’t make me rude or ask for a male because I think I’ll get a better answer.

Look, I will grant you that there are a lot of great Muslims in the world. Peaceful and respectful.

However to dismiss the 100’s of millions who mistreat others through violence is outrageous.

 

[aliabedi]

My original comment was about how much worse the Middle East would be today without oil. I’m not sure we are talking about the same thing, but you don’t have Iran, Syria, turkey.

As far as being shy, I’m shy. That doesn’t make me rude or ask for a male because I think I’ll get a better answer.

Look, I will grant you that there are a lot of great Muslims in the world. Peaceful and respectful.

However to dismiss the 100’s of millions who mistreat others through violence is outrageous.

You can iran their population is 82.3 million.
Syria and Turkey are not oil producers.

 

[aliabedi]

The Jehadist you talk about are less than .5%. Take my word of it.

 

[aliabedi]

My original comment was about how much worse the Middle East would be today without oil. I’m not sure we are talking about the same thing, but you don’t have Iran, Syria, turkey.

As far as being shy, I’m shy. That doesn’t make me rude or ask for a male because I think I’ll get a better answer.

Look, I will grant you that there are a lot of great Muslims in the world. Peaceful and respectful.

However to dismiss the 100’s of millions who mistreat others through violence is outrageous.

There are cultural differences which are hard to explain and translate.

 

[NZ Poke]

The only thing this proves is that you’ll go through any lengths to stick your head in the sand and ignore the problem.

That’s your polling data takeaway?

Why don’t you try to actually interpret the data.....

 

[Ostatedchi]

The Jehadist you talk about are less than .5%. Take my word of it.

How many Muslims in the world? Times .005 equals how many people that want to actively kill us?

 

[Medic007]

That’s your polling data takeaway?

Why don’t you try to actually interpret the data.....

He could have just said "We get it, you hate Jews," but I don't think he's been around long enough to see you for who you are.

 

[Ostatedchi]

How many Muslims in the world? Times .005 equals how many people that want to actively kill us? If there are 1.2 Billion Muslims that still leaves 6 million of them that want to terrorize the rest of humanity. That's a LOT of people.

 

[aliabedi]

How many Muslims in the world? Times .005 equals how many people that want to actively kill us?

I would say between 100,00 to 500,000. Of course no actual figures are available bur I am quoting scholars who do research on these subjects,

 

[BvillePoker]

I would say between 100,00 to 500,000. Of course no actual figures are available bur I am quoting scholars who do research on these subjects,

Hate to be this guy, but you are actually not quoting scholars.

 

[NZ Poke]

He could have just said "We get it, you hate Jews," but I don't think he's been around long enough to see you for who you are.

BS — that’s not what the polling data shows at all.

Use your brainpower and actually **think** about what you’re seeing....maybe even ask yourself why?

Instead of reacting like Pavlov’s dog — or a liberal being shown uncomfortable inner city crime data.

#Its-All-About-The-Data

 

[2012Bearcat]

Radical violent muslims are not in 100 of millions they are a very small minority.
Most of the radicals follow the saudi form of islam both al qaida and isis belong
to the same salafi wahabi strain.What happened in sri lanka same group.
IT is not the question of whether west brook has only 20 members they use the word baptist and i know it has confused people outside US. Infact my mother was in the hospital and I was talking to the nurse on duty and asked her if she was catholic or protestant(Catholics form majority in christians in Pakistan) and she said she was baptist and I repeated it and she said not the American form of baptist but real baptist,
when I queried further she meant west brook.
As far as your university it is mine as much as yours,you just hopped in a car and got admitted i flew 10,000 miles. It took a letter more than a week to arrive to Pakistan.
We couldn't afford to call back to our parents because it was very expensive.
When I read about a recruit turning our offer down because stillwater was too far from
his home town it makes me laugh.
I don't remember where I read the cage story,whether it was osu or some other southern univ but wasn't meant to demean osu but to show how much things have changed.
Christianity is 2100 years old Islam is 1400(i am not putting it as an excuse)
read about Christianity when it was 1400 yrs old. Most of the muslims in the world are poor and illeterate people(No thanks to Christian colonization) who are easily swayed
by a mullahs logic,The quran they read is in arabic they dont know what it means because they dont understand arabic they have to depend on their mullahs to understand what islam means.Our maid who is totally illeterate cannot read a word of urdu(national language) or any other language beside quran which she reads every day religiously without understanding a single word.
It is amazing that i am gold member of this board and you talk to me as i was a foreigner who knows nothing about your culture.I know I am not accepted maybe because i am too liberal or because i am a pakistani.

I can appreciate what your saying but at least be honest enough to understand why and how others can have a much different view than you.

Here is a video of Palestinians celebrating the 9/11 attack

 

[22LR]

BS — that’s not what the polling data shows at all.

“Polling data”. lol

 

[Ostatedchi]

I would say between 100,00 to 500,000. Of course no actual figures are available bur I am quoting scholars who do research on these subjects,

Your math doesn't hold up. But let us go with your number. Half a million people are obsessed with killing me and mine.

What do you think a rational reaction should be? What steps if any should be taken for the rest of the world to secure ourselves from them? Are those steps only defensive or could some of them also be offensive? Change hearts and minds... the hearts and minds that can't be changed - should they be eliminated?

My neighbor has a rabid dog. I have a very strong fence. The dog continually barks and tries to dig under or jump over or just gnaw through the fence to get to my kid playing in their sandbox in the back yard. I talk to the neighbor and try to convince him to manage his dog. Yet he refuses to do so. At what point do I get to protect my family from that constant threat?

 

[Ostatedchi]

I can appreciate what your saying but at least be honest enough to understand why and how others can have a much different view than you.

Here is a video of Palestinians celebrating the 9/11 attack

View embedded media

Looks like a good place for an errant bomb to happen to land.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Your math doesn't hold up. But let us go with your number. Half a million people are obsessed with killing me and mine.

What do you think a rational reaction should be? What steps if any should be taken for the rest of the world to secure ourselves from them? Are those steps only defensive or could some of them also be offensive? Change hearts and minds... the hearts and minds that can't be changed - should they be eliminated?

My neighbor has a rabid dog. I have a very strong fence. The dog continually barks and tries to dig under or jump over or just gnaw through the fence to get to my kid playing in their sandbox in the back yard. I talk to the neighbor and try to convince him to manage his dog. Yet he refuses to do so. At what point do I get to protect my family from that constant threat?

I wonder how many of those people of whom you speak want to kill us because of who we are, and how many want to kill us because we have insinuated ourselves into their back yard dropping bombs on them and generally destroying everything in sight? Do you think the numbers would diminish if we would leave them alone, pull out our troops, cease bombing them, just leave them to themselves?

I assume you are concerned they want to come to the US and wreak terror/revenge on us. Do you think they feel that way because they envy our freedom/lifestyle, as I have heard some on this board claim in the past? Or is it possible they feel that way because we have helped turn their counties into places of extreme hardship?

I am not asking this in an attempt to start an argument with you. I'm sincerely curious to what you subscribe their genuine hatred of us.

 

[okcpokefan12]

22lr you are not talking about Islam.
It would be me saying west brook baptist represent all baptists.Or how slavery was justified by christian pastor. Even after civil war christian pastors(SOME) claimed blacks as
not humans like whites.
The first black student at okla state attended classes in a cage.
Please don't accept quran versus as quoted by radicals.

Look at this Muslim lying to the infidels. You are a piece of trash with nothing but excuses for your hate filled religion

 

[2012Bearcat]

I wonder how many of those people of whom you speak want to kill us because of who we are, and how many want to kill us because we have insinuated ourselves into their back yard dropping bombs on them and generally destroying everything in sight? Do you think the numbers would diminish if we would leave them alone, pull out our troops, cease bombing them, just leave them to themselves?

I assume you are concerned they want to come to the US and wreak terror/revenge on us. Do you think they feel that way because they envy our freedom/lifestyle, as I have heard some on this board claim in the past? Or is it possible they feel that way because we have helped turn their counties into places of extreme hardship?

I am not asking this in an attempt to start an argument with you. I'm sincerely curious to what you subscribe their genuine hatred of us.

Are you really going to ask what we did to stir up the Muslims? They have been fighting anyone that will fight with them for thousands of years, even other Muslims. They don't care what we did, they hate us just like they hate other sects of Islam, Christians or any other religion not Muslim.

 

[aliabedi]

Your math doesn't hold up. But let us go with your number. Half a million people are obsessed with killing me and mine.

What do you think a rational reaction should be? What steps if any should be taken for the rest of the world to secure ourselves from them? Are those steps only defensive or could some of them also be offensive? Change hearts and minds... the hearts and minds that can't be changed - should they be eliminated?

My neighbor has a rabid dog. I have a very strong fence. The dog continually barks and tries to dig under or jump over or just gnaw through the fence to get to my kid playing in their sandbox in the back yard. I talk to the neighbor and try to convince him to manage his dog. Yet he refuses to do so. At what point do I get to protect my family from that constant threat?

First of al they all are not only coming to US.
Todays local news in Pakistan said that ISIS have entered Pakistan and may cause some destruction.
It has to do with power causing chaos and changing the systems like democracy,Islam is just the slogan they are using.Your Intelligence agencies are very good and effective
they know what to do.They have questioned thousands of terrorists and their associates. Even though your President thinks he knows more than these agencies
and the generals that proves he knows **** all. his foreign relation initiatives have all been failures. World is a very complicated place right now experts have to handle these situations you and I can only support them.
See what they did in sri lanka it is not an important country but there was a lot of religious harmony they want to destroy that.These terrorists were trained in India.
Since their numbers are small they generally have small groups active in various countries. I don't even think they have a centralized organization and these groups have small targets and act independantly.
As far as the palestinian celebrating 9/11 hell have you seen what has been done to those people,please read some on palestinians and pick up articles that do not
support your pre concieved notions.
I have been to Israel and a great admirer of the jewish people but some how or the other the two state solution has to come into place,
I will quote Obama and you are going to hate me because you already hate him.
he said if two problems are solved in this world terrorists would not have the legs to
stand on one is palestine and the other is kashmir.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Are you really going to ask what we did to stir up the Muslims? They have been fighting anyone that will fight with them for thousands of years, even other Muslims. They don't care what we did, they hate us just like they hate other sects of Islam, Christians or any other religion not Muslim.

As I said to ostatedchi I was not looking for an argument. I take it from your remark that you view Muslims to be a warlike people, unreasonably bent with hatred of anyone or anything that is not Muslim.

What I know about Islam would not fill a thimble. But I had been under the impression Muslims were somewhat accepting of Christians because, like them, Christians believe in one God. I have not been aware of extreme enmity between Middle Eastern Muslim nations and the US until after WW2 when the West forced Israel down their throats. (I'm not making a moral judgment here, just reporting what I thought was the history.) It seems like it has all been downhill from there.

I have long been of the notion that the Saudi Arabian version of Islam has been the problem, that it, indeed, preaches that those who do not practice their fanaticism should be killed. It has spread to other nations, unfortunately, but it is counter to mainstream Islam, which I perceived our Pakistani friend to be trying to tell us. I assume that since he is a practicing Muslim he might know a little bit more about its teaching than those of us who are not. The virulence with which some have responded to him has left me somewhat confused.

 

[aliabedi]

Are you really going to ask what we did to stir up the Muslims? They have been fighting anyone that will fight with them for thousands of years, even other Muslims. They don't care what we did, they hate us just like they hate other sects of Islam, Christians or any other religion not Muslim.

Please explain who the muslims been fighting for last three hundred years.
Please name any sectarian war where muslims fought with another muslim
because of their sect.
yes there are differences between various sects but if they are killed it is in their own country.
Last war was when british wanted to finish the ottoman empire and fought on the side of the tribes that created saudi arabia.

 

[Ostatedchi]

First of al they all are not only coming to US.
Todays local news in Pakistan said that ISIS have entered Pakistan and may cause some destruction.
It has to do with power causing chaos and changing the systems like democracy,Islam is just the slogan they are using.Your Intelligence agencies are very good and effective
they know what to do.They have questioned thousands of terrorists and their associates. Even though your President thinks he knows more than these agencies
and the generals that proves he knows **** all. his foreign relation initiatives have all been failures. World is a very complicated place right now experts have to handle these situations you and I can only support them.
See what they did in sri lanka it is not an important country but there was a lot of religious harmony they want to destroy that.These terrorists were trained in India.
Since their numbers are small they generally have small groups active in various countries. I don't even think they have a centralized organization and these groups have small targets and act independantly.
As far as the palestinian celebrating 9/11 hell have you seen what has been done to those people,please read some on palestinians and pick up articles that do not
support your pre concieved notions.
I have been to Israel and a great admirer of the jewish people but some how or the other the two state solution has to come into place,
I will quote Obama and you are going to hate me because you already hate him.
he said if two problems are solved in this world terrorists would not have the legs to
stand on one is palestine and the other is kashmir.

All I hear from you are excuses. You still haven't answered a single question I've asked you. Is it purposeful? Or do you just deflect to non-root cause issues?

So far any conversation with you has been totally useless. If you are representative of enlightened Muslims then I'm sorry for the entire religion as there is no hope for a reformation.

 

[okcpokefan12]

@aliabedi - are you going to blame someone else for how Muslims treat women and gays?