So, does he know he's completely full of shit every time he mutters the words "limited government" in discussing his vision; or does he actually believe he supports "limited government?"
Rubio
- Thread starter ThorOdinson13
- Start date
Does limited government support unfettered overseas adventurism and empire building?
Does limited government support enforcing states to follow unconstitutional federal law and disregard the 9th and 10th amendments?
Does limited government support enforcing states to follow unconstitutional federal law and disregard the 9th and 10th amendments?
Technically, I suppose it could. He says "limited" not "no". He definitely isn't Rand Paul, whi I've started to like a lot of what he says, but he is a guy that can win and definitely is not Hillary or Obama.
Enjoy this cycle where you will do your best to get Hillary elected.
And if he wins what do you win by proxy?
Best estimation: Rubio over Clinton is Bush light over Obama light, congrats. Really making some huge strides there man. You know, liberty and all that shit they pretend to support.
Is it not amazing that "conservatives" always sing the "I'm done with the establishment" song and dance....right down until the elections come along? Then the establishment guy starts to wear on them and magically make sense. This is exactly why their vote is the waste, not mine. At least I'm communicating my vision. They are just settling for the establishment vision while thinking they win something by proxy. Yay, go team!!!
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Nope, this country will never be the Rand Paul version of free. It just won't happen. You know, I know it, everyone knows it. The first thing that needs to happen is stop the radical shift to the left, and a guy like Rubio with a Republican Congress can do that. Can he overnight restore all of our freedoms? Hell no, and neither could any person you support. But, people like you are why assholes like Obama get elected. Carry on though, I'm sure you would rather just bitch and moan anyway.
Rubio has no desire to restore freedom. He supported the Patriot act, he supports the NDAA, he supports continued nation building, he supports ignoring the 9th & 10th amendments. Not an advocate of freedom period. He's just a little less left than those radical leftists you mention. He's a ****ing liberal and so is most of the Republican congress. But keep calling me an asshole if it makes you feel better. Cognitive dissonance is a bitch. Here we go, lame excuse numero uno for justifying your vote: "he can win"
Damn, you are one angry dude. I didn't call you an asshole (reading comprehension). Again, none of the shit you want will happen in your lifetime. It's time for some acceptance and fight an actual winnable battle. What you are doing is making it go even further in the shitter with even less chance of fixing, but he, you can't build up more phony outrage over the Patriot Act!
I'm not a fan of the Patriot Act, but to date, it has caused zero harm to me directly. Obamacare and the terrible regulations on businesses that keep getting added are going to hurt me far worse. I'm sure most of the Rs love some regulation, but there is a fighting chance of getting some of this shit undone, but you would rather have Hillary and make sure it never happens.
I'm not angry at all. I've accepted that the difference is minuscule. You are correct, you called Obama and people like him an asshole. That we agree on, apologies offered. Acceptance just means you are choosing a path to shitty. You want the slow or the fast? It means you're settling and instead of communicating your view you are accepting an alternative view that may not actually be in your best interest, just less harmful, which is then equated to best interest because you haven't accepted that we aren't as free as you believe. Rubio may be less harmful to you , or you believe he may be but that's the only gain. You can continue to believe personal restrictions on freedom will continue to not affect you but over time that experience will change. The economic controls and restrictions on economic freedom will not lessen, only increase. That's the way I see it.
Or
You mitigate that damage...and hope to persuade minds with the time you are bought.
Your assumption is that policy direction is given...in a direction opposite of what you'd prefer.
The truth is...in mitigating damage, you buy yourself time to make a better argument, to touch the undecided or those not yet of age to vote.
It's not all or nothing.
And I'm coming around to the belief that the inherent independent (strong) nature of the libertarian or conservative in the all-or-morning voting stance has actually caused more harm than good.....because mitigation and the purchasing of time (by vote) means something. It has value.
Really dumb post. Thor is a veteran and a man of principle. Consistent uncompromising convictions founded in the Constitution. People like him are also the reason we have a country.
"But, people like you are why assholes like Obama get elected" - this is what I'm referring to.
It is pure bullshit to blame libertarians for the GOP's impotence vs a wet rag like Obama. Choosing the lesser of two evils is a worthless philosophy.
I'm being persuaded that it's not, and yes I'm persuadable. I've been on "you're side" for several years now.
I'm tired. Even in mitigation..I'm acting. My fking balls feel better bc I'm not gonna roll over for a b*tch like a Obama or Hillary.
Can you tell me why am shouldn't strive by inaction any longer?
Can you tell me why it makes sense that in the range of normal distribution, it's better to abstain than take a position on the "lesser of 2 evils side" when the mean (or more) is an ideal place...and though not readily obtained (the ideal), the recognized "damage" to society, in the interim, is softened and buys you another 4 years to persuade?
Having said all that, the establishment is about to get behind him big time.
There are worse guys that could happen to. He's not my choice but he's got potential. My biggest problem is his massive ears.
But they are offset by his Dolphin cheerleader wife.
There are worse guys that could happen to. He's not my choice but he's got potential. My biggest problem is his massive ears.
But they are offset by his Dolphin cheerleader wife.
This needs theme music. Not saying abstain, but maybe wait more than 24 hours before justifying political flexibility?
Haha
Win.
In the end, do these fools (immediately) impact our lives?
Smoking hot wife wins >50% of the time.
*to clarify, I'm not in the Trump, Cruz or Rubio camp. I like questioning people on their beliefs/assertions. My belief is that any of the "right" 3 will suffice this cycle, with Cruz and Trump being preferable to Rubio, though he's easily most electable.
One day of Fox News propaganda telling folks that Rubio is the only top candidate with a real chance to win and people are falling for it.
I'm sticking with a strict Constitutionist like Cruz until they tell him to go home.
I'm sticking with a strict Constitutionist like Cruz until they tell him to go home.
Cruz is a used car salesman. His voice is like nails on a chalkboard and his speeches sound like he is angry, always.
I like a lot of Cruz positions, most of them likely, but I don't see his willingness to actually get stuff done. I see him as the conservative Obama.
Oh yes, play the lame-assed Fox news blame game because it's so easy and requires no thought process. That dog won't hunt here because a helluva lot of us are intelligent enough to decide who we want to vote for without media assistance.
This is exactly what I see as well. Cruz has trouble working with his own party, he will not be able to get anything done. If he wants to get anything done he will have to deviate from his principles and his history and I just don't see it.
I think if Rubio is the nominee, regardless of who the Democrats nominate, he will be the next President. I don't know how a Cruz/Hillary election would go....both are so unlikable it may generate the lowest voter turnout in history. I could honestly see Cruz losing to Sanders as I don't see Cruz firing up the Republican base or being able to pull in many independents. I probably agree with Cruz on the issues more than I agree with Rubio but I just don't know that he'd win and even more troubling to me I just don't know how effective he would be as President.
Fox News doesn't think so.
If you support Rubio I'm sure you have great reasons. He's #2 on my list behind Cruz now that Rand Paul dropped out of the race. I'm not sure I could in good conscience vote for the others that are to the left of Rubio (and they are) because they're just too progressive for me.
Could it possibly be that "Cruz has trouble working with his own party" because the entrenched interests/old guard of that party (in the Senate in particular) aren't interested in doing ANYTHING that the majority of grassroots registered Republican voters support?
What good is it if Rubio "can work with others" if what he works on is not what the voters who elected him support?
I'll note that Cruz actually has a long track record, pre-Senate of getting things done in a bi-partisan manner.
What good is it if Rubio "can work with others" if what he works on is not what the voters who elected him support?
I'll note that Cruz actually has a long track record, pre-Senate of getting things done in a bi-partisan manner.
Sounds like a lot of people ITT are swallowing the line the Fox News and other outlets are throwing out there.
Cruz scares the crap out of the entrenched establishment.
Rubio is a clown. A vote for him is a vote for crony capitalism, more bullsh* wars, and massive deficits. He's a young neocon.
Heritage Action Scorecard - Cruz 100%, Rubio 94% (above all but 5 members of Congress)
Conservative Review Scorecard - Cruz #2 most conservative, Rubio #7 most conservative
American Conservative Union (2014) - Cruz 100%, Rubio 98%
Both score well to the right of Inhofe or Lankford.
Oh, and while Rubio missed more votes than any other Senator last year, Lindsay Graham and Cruz were #2 and #3.
Cruz and Rubio aren't that much different (even on immigration) . . .
Which one can win in November?
Conservative Review Scorecard - Cruz #2 most conservative, Rubio #7 most conservative
American Conservative Union (2014) - Cruz 100%, Rubio 98%
Both score well to the right of Inhofe or Lankford.
Oh, and while Rubio missed more votes than any other Senator last year, Lindsay Graham and Cruz were #2 and #3.
Cruz and Rubio aren't that much different (even on immigration) . . .
Which one can win in November?
Gotta agree with poke 2001 on this.
I don't see how Cruz or Trump can win the election over Clinton. They say or have said too many things that will alienate moderate voters and/or low information voters that are easily swayed.
Rubio can beat Clinton and he absolutely is a strong conservative. I've been a Rubio supporter from day one for several reasons but main won is he win the general election. And it appears his supporters feel that way. Look at the exit polls from Iowa... that was #1 reason they voted for him.
I don't see how Cruz or Trump can win the election over Clinton. They say or have said too many things that will alienate moderate voters and/or low information voters that are easily swayed.
Rubio can beat Clinton and he absolutely is a strong conservative. I've been a Rubio supporter from day one for several reasons but main won is he win the general election. And it appears his supporters feel that way. Look at the exit polls from Iowa... that was #1 reason they voted for him.
Stop and think about what you're saying. You say the #1 reason stated by Rubio's supporters for their voting for him was that he can win the general election.
You say it like its a point of pride. I think it's a sad indictment of his candidacy.
I actually think Trump beats the heck out of Hillary in the general if that is who it is.
Repubs will vote for him because he isn't Hill
Independents will vote for him because he isn't an establishment candidate
Dems will vote for him because he is a celebrity
Repubs will vote for him because he isn't Hill
Independents will vote for him because he isn't an establishment candidate
Dems will vote for him because he is a celebrity
Those two douche bags are less electable than a three-legged/one-ball dog licking himself running with a (fill in your choice).
No, it isn't a sad indictment of his candidacy, it is a sad indictment of the current landscape in this country. Rubio seems like a good dude, and one that is pretty conservative. A little to hawkish, and a little too social conservative, but because he plays the game well doesn't make him a bad person...if you don't play the game, you won't win in a general election.
I like his upbeat tone, seems positive. I have no idea if he would make a great president, but I do know he would be 1000x better than Obama or Hillary.
I didn't comment at all about Rubio. Just seems like a weak argument in favor of him, by those who should be his most ardent supporters, at this juncture.
