Religon of Peace Update #147

[HighStickHarry]

What should we do? Everyone is so concerned, but no one puts any thought into the best way to marginalize and defeat an ideology.

Send in 1 million nato troops, set up bases and rule their governments in a secular fashion for a couple of decades. Set up uncensored internet and push our shallow western commercialism. Next thing you know they will be listening to Kanye and wearing clippers jerseys and be as apathetic about religion as we are.

 

[07pilt]

Sending in troops does have a long history of deradicalizing Islam.

 

[HighStickHarry]

Sending in troops does have a long history of deradicalizing Islam.

There is a history of doing what I posted?

 

[imprimis]

Sending in troops does have a long history of deradicalizing Islam.

For the past 4 years we've been told it's videos that do this.

 

[07pilt]

There is a history of sending in troops, and there have been countries in the middle-east with 20 years of secular government.

The West taking over the entire region is sure to go over smoothly.

 

[HighStickHarry]

There is a history of sending in troops, and there have been countries in the middle-east with 20 years of secular government.

The West taking over the entire region is sure to go over smoothly.

Bingo. You are looking for something that will "go over smoothly."

That scenario doesn't exist and never will. We need something that ends this bullshit not something that goes over smoothly.

 

[Medic007]

What should we do? Everyone is so concerned, but no one puts any thought into the best way to marginalize and defeat an ideology.

I think a good start is for the vast Majority of Muslims that want their hijacked religion back to start calling out radicals that they know publicly. Identify them as infidels. Muslim leaders need to identify the radicals in their ranks. Muslims need to stop providing material support and stop sympathizing with the terrorists. Muslims need to paint a vivid picture that jihad and martyrdom are the ticket to hell instead of paradise.

In summary, Muslims need to start policing their own. The Westboro Church folks are seen as a kooky fringe group that has no support. Why? Because they've been shunned by the majority. We can't fix the problem. Europe can't fix it. It has to be done by Muslims. Killing them in large numbers is nothing but a bandaid coated in lye.

 

[osutater]

What should we do? Everyone is so concerned, but no one puts any thought into the best way to marginalize and defeat an ideology.

Maybe we should take what the Dems did to Bernie supports. Put up a big ass walking dead fence and require the correct documents to get in.

 

[07pilt]

Bingo. You are looking for something that will "go over smoothly."

That scenario doesn't exist and never will. We need something that ends this bullshit not something that goes over smoothly.

You are looking for blood not peace. You prefer starting a war that will kill more people than a 1000 years of radical Islamic terrorism.

 

[07pilt]

I think a good start is for the vast Majority of Muslims that want their hijacked religion back to start calling out radicals that they know publicly. Identify them as infidels. Muslim leaders need to identify the radicals in their ranks. Muslims need to stop providing material support and stop sympathizing with the terrorists. Muslims need to paint a vivid picture that jihad and martyrdom are the ticket to hell instead of paradise.

In summary, Muslims need to start policing their own. The Westboro Church folks are seen as a kooky fringe group that has no support. Why? Because they've been shunned by the majority. We can't fix the problem. Europe can't fix it. It has to be done by Muslims. Killing them in large numbers is nothing but a bandaid coated in lye.

As a nonmuslim that doesn't really help me.

 

[07pilt]

Maybe we should take what the Dems did to Bernie supports. Put up a big ass walking dead fence and require the correct documents to get in.

Material barriers to ideology.

 

[ThorOdinson13]

I think a good start is for the vast Majority of Muslims that want their hijacked religion back to start calling out radicals that they know publicly. Identify them as infidels. Muslim leaders need to identify the radicals in their ranks. Muslims need to stop providing material support and stop sympathizing with the terrorists. Muslims need to paint a vivid picture that jihad and martyrdom are the ticket to hell instead of paradise.

In summary, Muslims need to start policing their own. The Westboro Church folks are seen as a kooky fringe group that has no support. Why? Because they've been shunned by the majority. We can't fix the problem. Europe can't fix it. It has to be done by Muslims. Killing them in large numbers is nothing but a bandaid coated in lye.

Was it really hijacked though? Holy war is a religious duty because they have an obligation to convert everyone, the world over, to Islam. And if they don't do it willingly then they are instructed to do it by force.

 

[Medic007]

As a nonmuslim that doesn't really help me.

And that unfortunate reality should be recognized. Besides killing them, there isn't much a non-Muslim can do.

 

[HighStickHarry]

You are looking for blood not peace. You prefer starting a war that will kill more people than a 1000 years of radical Islamic terrorism.

Were the atomic bombs on Japan looking for blood or peace?

 

[imprimis]

The West taking over the entire region is sure to go over smoothly.

Fear not. As fast as Obama is bringing them here there won't be any left to get upset.

 

[Medic007]

Was it really hijacked though? Holy war is a religious duty because they have an obligation to convert everyone, the world over, to Islam. And if they don't do it willingly then they are instructed to do it by force.

You are correct. By hijacked, I'm referring to the negative public connotation that the terrorists have brought to the religion.

 

[07pilt]

Were the atomic bombs on Japan looking for blood or peace?

The people who dropped them would argue the purpose was to minimize the loss of life.

 

[07pilt]

And that unfortunate reality should be recognized. Besides killing them, there isn't much a non-Muslim can do.

This is why the argument about how many Muslims are bad radicals and whether Islam is uniquely terrorist is so pointless. The conclusion that all we can do is kill Muslims is the real point and arguing over the IRA and polls from Bangladesh and Indonesia is just burying the lede.

 

[07pilt]

Fear not. As fast as Obama is bringing them here there won't be any left to get upset.

Oooh sick Obummer burn!

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

I want to see the peace-loving muslims do something about the supposedly outlier violent, extremist muslims. Why aren't Jordan, Iran, Saudi, Egypt, UAE, etc. all over ISIS right now? I think the reason you dont see some pan-arab coalition getting a handle on everything is:

1. The man on the street really does hate the west, (stated another way, lack of political will) and

2. They can't stop hating each other long enough (shia vs. sunnia, etc.)

Asia just has a totally different set of cultures than we do, and it's been around a lot longer than pax americana.

 

[HighStickHarry]

The people who dropped them would argue the purpose was to minimize the loss of life.

So we need to reach a threshold of Islamic kills before we can react in an extreme manner that "goes over smoothly." You are not swayed by the historical anomaly that is cable news and social media. I think I'm getting you.

When will we have pilts blessing?

 

[COWBOYintheUK]

Good lowered.

UK, do you know how sampling works? Real question.

There's roughly 25-30 independent samples listed in Thor's post. Unless you're a believer in something akin to a vast (and I mean VASSSST) right wing conspiracy, then even the lower range of a lot of those polls is a cause for a concern.

But it sounds like you're entrenched. Am I wrong?

I do know how these work, and I am not saying there is not a problem, but to vilify an entire religion over what some do is not what America is supposed to be about. Yesterday I witnessed a 70 year old Muslim lady being verbally abused by a 35 year old man , she had done nothing but enter a line behind this man, she had said nothing, he turned around looked her straight in the eyes and screamed at her "you need to go f*** yourself, F**** you, F**** Islam, get the F*** out of my country".........I escorted him out and told him If he ever came back I would call the Police..........she said it happens all the time....this was in Stillwater, and BTW she is a US citizen,..........that is not right. I was in the USAF for 25 years worked in NATO for 12 of those and operated as a Military Analyst my last few years.........This goes a lot deeper than people understand, had I not been required to sign a nondisclosure document upon my retiring, I would give you a much better insight, but I am not going to risk my pension over an argument on a message board

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

Send in 1 million nato troops, set up bases and rule their governments in a secular fashion for a couple of decades. Set up uncensored internet and push our shallow western commercialism. Next thing you know they will be listening to Kanye and wearing clippers jerseys and be as apathetic about religion as we are.

..... he thought up while taking a dump and finishing off a leftover chimichanga. That way, he can watch it on Fox news and wave a flag and feel like "we" are finally doing something about it.

That has to be the most inane thing I've ever heard. Incidentally, what's your budget in lives and money for this generation-long war?

 

[HighStickHarry]

..... he thought up while taking a dump and finishing off a leftover chimichanga. That way, he can watch it on Fox news and wave a flag and feel like "we" are finally doing something about it.

That has to be the most inane thing I've ever heard. Incidentally, what's your budget in lives and money for this generation-long war?

I'm home sick so no chimis for me. I've been watching msnbc for two weeks straight btw.

We are twenty trillion in debt. What on earth does money have to do with anything? Let's spend another twenty trillion on armed robots with go pro cameras and do it that way. What is the differance between twenty trillion, forty trillion or eleventy billion trillion?

 

[N. Pappagiorgio]

The man on the street really does hate the west, (stated another way, lack of political will) and

I think you are exactly right.

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

I'm home sick so no chimis for me. I've been watching msnbc for two weeks straight btw.

We are twenty trillion in debt. What on earth does money have to do with anything? Let's spend another twenty trillion on armed robots with go pro cameras and do it that way. What is the differance between twenty trillion, forty trillion or eleventy billion trillion?

Why would you watch msnbc? I'm liberal and I can't watch it for two straight weeks.

 

[07pilt]

So we need to reach a threshold of Islamic kills before we can react in an extreme manner that "goes over smoothly." You are not swayed by the historical anomaly that is cable news and social media. I think I'm getting you.

When will we have pilts blessing?

Sorry for making the bold proclamation that the medicine shouldn't be worse than the disease.

 

[Marshal Jim Duncan]

A few, recent non-IRA terrorist attacks in Europe:

 

[N. Pappagiorgio]

Sorry for making the bold proclamation that the medicine shouldn't be worse than the disease.

You make a good point but when is it okay for FDA clinical trials?

 

[07pilt]

You make a good point but when is it okay for FDA clinical trials?

2002-2003

 

[CBradSmith]

Pilt talking all kinds of good sense.

But where does that leave us...

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

she said it happens all the time....

This is what I'm talking about -- it's hard to criticize Islam in an intellectually honest way because of where nitwits take it. I kind of want to have my cake and eat it too: Acknowledge the religion has some pretty ostensible violence and oppression issues, but not have rednecks twist off at innocent people, which I'm sure most of them are.

 

[HighStickHarry]

Sorry for making the bold proclamation that the medicine shouldn't be worse than the disease.

When will we have pilts blessing? how many slit throats and run over children will it take? At least Japan bombed a military base. These animals go after the most unsuspecting targets. When can we satisfy your "go over smoothly" threshold?

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

When will we have pilts blessing? how many slit throats and run over children will it take? At least Japan bombed a military base. These animals go after the most unsuspecting targets. When can we satisfy your "go over smoothly" threshold?

Don't wait -- enlist.

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

A few, recent non-IRA terrorist attacks in Europe:

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

Careful Glove.... things have been and can get worse over there.

 

[ThorOdinson13]

This is why the argument about how many Muslims are bad radicals and whether Islam is uniquely terrorist is so pointless. The conclusion that all we can do is kill Muslims is the real point and arguing over the IRA and polls from Bangladesh and Indonesia is just burying the lede.

I don't totally agree with this statement, namely the part about looking at polls. Before we can address the issue as a society we need to have a basic understanding of the society that is at war with us. This also includes an understanding of the theology and a willingness to face facts no matter how politically incorrect. Lastly, any solution needs to be looked at from the view of minimizing the loss of life. I have no idea if it would be effective but I would like to see a few things.

1. Very strict immigration control from the US to prevent illegal immigration.
2. Restrict the acceptance of refugees from Muslim nations. It may seem harsh but allowing the entrance of thousands of military aged males of the same ideology at war with the US does not pass the common sense test.
3. Revamp our foreign policy, quit the bombing, pull our troops out of these countries.
4. Streamline the legal immigration processes and increase worker visas.
5. Remove embargos, trade restrictions, etc.

Who knows, that all could be a complete disaster but I'm willing to have the conversation. I think about it frequently.



Agree with your statement regarding the use of the atomic bomb btw. This is one of the key issues with just war theory. It always assumes that action leads to a decrease in the total loss of life. In reality, one cannot definitively make that statement and know it to be truth.

 

[HighStickHarry]

Don't wait -- enlist.

I tried before 9/11 and after. They wouldn't take me.

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

I tried before 9/11 and after. They wouldn't take me.

Why not?

 

[07pilt]

When will we have pilts blessing? how many slit throats and run over children will it take? At least Japan bombed a military base. These animals go after the most unsuspecting targets. When can we satisfy your "go over smoothly" threshold?

US casualties from the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan: 56,422. Care to take a guess at the number of casualties from occupying every Muslim country for two decades?