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Pelosi wants Confederate statues removed from Capitol

Yup. The confederate issue wasn't a hotbed topic pushed by politicians -- it was pushed by the citizenry. Pretty grass roots backlash to Charlottesville.

I don't think you had people superimposing white supremacy on other presidents because they weren't white supremacists. They were pretty black and white about it (no pun intended). Biff uses his usual blustering word salad that means whatever mood he's in. It's wrong, but there are many sides, but he has spoken out against racism, but there's good people on both sides, etc. He was sued for it, he's been accused of racism, his dad was racist, he should get ahead of it instead of his silly rambling. David Duke and supremacist protesters wearing his MAGA hat didn't help any, either.

So basically the country listened, watched, heard Biff and responded with, "White supremacists say they can gain momentum with you in the White House and they're publicly marching so... we're taking down the statutes now, Biff." I find that a totally bad-ass, quintessential American move. White supremacists try to rally and start growing and the country swamps them and tears down confederate icons. The poor girl that was killed kind of triggered this viral movement. Gotta love this country. As usual, conservatives (some - not all) are on the wrong side of history and are have their bottom lip stuck out. Good riddance.

They really should move to a third world country with no government, romanticize if not have outright slavery, theocracy, everyone has guns.... why are they even here? They should just leave and everyone is happier.

And yes, racial division is a pretty good reason to remove statues of the defenders of slavery. I can't see that having them up has healed anything.
So Trump is a white supremacist? Or was a white supremacist? Any kind of proof of this like, say, being a former Exalted Cyclops in the KKK? Have we examined the racial views of Hillary Clinton's parents as well? If her parents were racist, does that mean she is too? She was against gay marriage before she was for it. Is she still homophobic? Did the New Black Panthers endorsement of Obama mean that he was anti-white? Did Obama's rigid refusal to refer to Islamic terrorism as an Islamic problem mean he was sympathetic to Islamic terrorists? When Obama and company said that Islamophobia plays a part in Islamic terrorism, was that similar to Trump laying some blame on both "sides?"

I'm just trying to figure out some of the branches of this rabbit hole and see exactly where they go.
 
https://www.google.com/search?sourc...+Huckleberry+Finn+in+public+school+libraries&

Many of the books of Mark Twain, one of the greatest authors ever, are not seen in many schools across this land because of left-wing book bans.

Before you start buying into NZ's broflake hysteria, you might want to look at the books banned in some school's at the request of your "side" too.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_commonly_challenged_books_in_the_United_States
 
So Trump is a white supremacist? Or was a white supremacist? Any kind of proof of this like, say, being a former Exalted Cyclops in the KKK? Have we examined the racial views of Hillary Clinton's parents as well? If her parents were racist, does that mean she is too? She was against gay marriage before she was for it. Is she still homophobic? Did the New Black Panthers endorsement of Obama mean that he was anti-white? Did Obama's rigid refusal to refer to Islamic terrorism as an Islamic problem mean he was sympathetic to Islamic terrorists? When Obama and company said that Islamophobia plays a part in Islamic terrorism, was that similar to Trump laying some blame on both "sides?"

I'm just trying to figure out some of the branches of this rabbit hole and see exactly where they go.

Nothing would surprise me but I doubt it, maybe, yes he seems to like and defend them and they like him, no, maybe, maybe (or just purely political without any underlying belief), maybe, no, no.
 
Nothing would surprise me but I doubt it, maybe, yes he seems to like and defend them and they like him, no, maybe, maybe (or just purely political without any underlying belief), maybe, no, no.
Hmmmm. The bottom two no's seem particularly contradictory given your posted views on Trump.

Thanks for the response.
 
https://www.google.com/search?sourc...+Huckleberry+Finn+in+public+school+libraries&

Many of the books of Mark Twain, one of the greatest authors ever, are not seen in many schools across this land because of left-wing book bans.

Huckleberry Finn has been continually in print since it was first published, translated into over 53 languages, sold over 20 million copies, over 100 different editions foreign and domestic.

Really weird facts for a "banned book".

To equate local challenges at public schools and libraries based upon age inappropriate use of the "n word" to what NZ said is more broflake hysterics. To equate any local challenge to the teaching of a book in a local school or a local library providing the book to a "ban" is hysterical. Especially when fashioned in the context of "first they came for our statutes, next they'll come for our books."
 
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You make his case. Banning books is already too commonplace regardless of who proposes it. The reason I mentioned Mark Twain is because he seems like just the kind of target that antifa and blm would like to squelch.

I don't make his case at all. Equating local school and library challenges with

After the statues, books will be next.

Is broflake hysterics.

Every single one of the books on that list are in print and widely read.
 
Guns,

Very true that you could look at just about anyone's monument and find something wrong with them. As Greg "Pappy" Boyington once observed (including himself in the group) - "Show me a hero, and I'll show you a bum."

But there's one MASSIVE difference here between William T Sherman and Robert E Lee, "Stonewall" Jackson, Nathan Bedford Forrest and the other Confederate Military Commanders that you don't want to seem to recognize. All of those guys fought AGAINST the United States! They were all for tearing the country apart.

Just as I wouldn't think that people would want to keep up a statue dedicated to Benedict Arnold, who was actually one of the most effective Revolutionary War Generals, his fortune for being honored ended when he turned traitor. I don't see a huge distinction here between men who were officers in the US Army, who turned against the country which had placed faith in them and Gen. Arnold.
 
The monument busters had best get after all of the statues around the country of northern generals like William Tecumseh Sherman, as well. His views on people of color and slavery pretty much aligned with slaveholders of the day. He had very close friends who were slaveholders and dined with and visited them often. He, like many others in the north, only took up swords against the South when the various southern states began seceding from the Union. To many people in the north, the war was to keep the union together, no more, no less.

And while these dimwits are busting up statues of William Tecumseh Sherman they might also take their hammers to monuments of President Abraham Lincoln. As an attorney, he sold slaves down river to settle his in-laws' estate. He also wrote a letter to Horace Greeley proclaiming that if he could save the union without freeing one single slave he would do it.

Not to mention the genocidal acts on Native Americans carried out under the same banner as flown by the Union Army.

Speaking of, didn't a lot of Native Americans fight for the CSA?
 
Guns,

Very true that you could look at just about anyone's monument and find something wrong with them. As Greg "Pappy" Boyington once observed (including himself in the group) - "Show me a hero, and I'll show you a bum."

But there's one MASSIVE difference here between William T Sherman and Robert E Lee, "Stonewall" Jackson, Nathan Bedford Forrest and the other Confederate Military Commanders that you don't want to seem to recognize. All of those guys fought AGAINST the United States! They were all for tearing the country apart.

Just as I wouldn't think that people would want to keep up a statue dedicated to Benedict Arnold, who was actually one of the most effective Revolutionary War Generals, his fortune for being honored ended when he turned traitor. I don't see a huge distinction here between men who were officers in the US Army, who turned against the country which had placed faith in them and Gen. Arnold.
Just like our revolutionary war heroes fought against the established government of Great Britain and King George.
 
I don't make his case at all. Equating local school and library challenges with



Is broflake hysterics.

Every single one of the books on that list are in print and widely read.
Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn are banned in certain schools across this country because of the use of the n-word.
 
My whole point in all of this is as follows: book banning should come rather easily to antifa and BLM thugs who gladly beat the living hell out of people for wearing a Confederate flag on a shirt or a Trump ball cap.
 
Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn are banned in certain schools across this country because of the use of the n-word.

And yet are widely published and read across the world.

To equate local challenges at public schools and libraries based upon age inappropriateness of use of the "n word" to what NZ said is more broflake hysterics. To equate any local challenge to the teaching of a book in a local school or a local library providing the book to an ourigjt government "ban" is hysterics. Especially when fashioned in the context of "first they came for our statutes, next they'll come for our books."
 
My whole point in all of this is as follows: book banning should come rather easily to antifa and BLM thugs who gladly beat the living hell out of people for wearing a Confederate flag on a shirt or a Trump ball cap.

I thought your point in doing all this was defending NZ's claim

After the statues, books will be next.

Against my characterization as broflake hysterics.

That you were defending the post you "liked" as a rational, reasonable, non-hysterical argument.

We're all aware of your feelings about Antifa and BLM. As I pointed out, you als kinda forgot about all the local book challenges made by others who are definitely not Antifa or BLM and who think more in line with you and NZ. Maybe broaden your focus and horizons on the topic.
 
I thought your point in doing all this was defending NZ's claim



Against my characterization as broflake hysterics.

That you were defending the post you "liked" as a rational, reasonable, non-hysterical argument.

We're all aware of your feelings about Antifa and BLM. As I pointed out, you als kinda forgot about all the local book challenges made by others who are definitely not Antifa or BLM and who think more in line with you and NZ. Maybe broaden your focus and horizons on the topic.
I'm libertarian. I don't know of any of my kind who are out fighting to ban books.
 
Not to mention the genocidal acts on Native Americans carried out under the same banner as flown by the Union Army.

Speaking of, didn't a lot of Native Americans fight for the CSA?

andrew jackson the face on our $20 was instrumental in enforcing indian removal from their native lands in the southeast and forcing them on the trail of tears.

jackson didn't kill indians in an act of war his trail of tears murdered them

cherokee stand watie was unconquered in the confederate army.


but pelosi hasn't figured all this out yet...
 
All great and legit points. The question I have is, why now? Pelosi has been in office since 1988. Were the statues representing something else then? Why not ask for their removal in 1988? 1992? 1995? 2002? 2006? 2009? 2013? The timing makes the motivation to have them removed from the capitol building seem very political and not tied at all to what you posted.

Of course politics are playing a part. She is a politician. This is what they do. And it is not just Dems who have that strategy in their playbook.

Let's not act like this is something that just popped up in the last 2 weeks, though. We had these debates over the Confederate flag years ago, and that seems to be a battle that is reaching its endpoint. Maybe this is just the next logical step.

(as an aside, I don't care all that much one way or another, but you, and other conservatives, who are making such a stink about it, are politicizing it as much as the libs who are making a stink about the monuments. )
 
(as an aside, I don't care all that much one way or another, but you, and other conservatives, who are making such a stink about it, are politicizing it as much as the libs who are making a stink about the monuments. )
Sorry man. I'm not a conservative or making a "stink" about it. That sounds like typical syskatine level tribalism. Surprising from you. I'm asking questions about the thoughts behind removal of statues. If you can point me to a "stink" I've made, I'll gladly retract my comment.

My original OP questioned how Pelosi and company are demanding the removal of confederate statues but fought the removal of "art" that was very derogatory towards law enforcement. So far I've got nothing touching that from you, sys, davidallen, or any other of the self identifying left learners. What message does the "pig" art send? How can there be such a rancid disconnect from offense from one "hate" message to acceptance of another "hate" message?
 
Sorry man. I'm not a conservative or making a "stink" about it. That sounds like typical syskatine level tribalism. Surprising from you. I'm asking questions about the thoughts behind removal of statues. If you can point me to a "stink" I've made, I'll gladly retract my comment.

My original OP questioned how Pelosi and company are demanding the removal of confederate statues but fought the removal of "art" that was very derogatory towards law enforcement. So far I've got nothing touching that from you, sys, davidallen, or any other of the self identifying left learners. What message does the "pig" art send? How can there be such a rancid disconnect from offense from one "hate" message to acceptance of another "hate" message?
Remember, these are the same people who thought Mapplethorp's Pissed Christ and similar ilk was just fine.
 
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Remember, these are the same people who thought Mapplethorp's Pissed Christ and similar ilk was just fine.
You've got a great point, but I can't view it from a religious perspective because I'm not religious. The religious side of politics makes no sense to me.

I'm looking at it in terms of distinct groups. Police officers are a more distinct group than blacks.
 
Remember, these are the same people who thought Mapplethorp's Pissed Christ and similar ilk was just fine.
Really apples and pineapples with that reach.

The biggest controversy surrounding Mapplethorpe was the City of Cincinnati (it could have been the county, I don't remember) actually tried to criminally convict Mapplethorpe of obscenity.

His showing was at a PRIVATE museum, on the Univ of Pennsylvania's campus (which is a PRIVATE Institution.) Hardly, out in the public square, on public land, being funded by public tax dollars. Wanted to hold someone criminally liable for "obscenity" for a display in a private venue, is not anywhere in the same ballpark as the issue at hand.

Like I said, you are really reaching here to try and conflate two issues and situations which really aren't comparable. I don't think anyone has been threatened with criminal prosecution for displaying these monuments, which was really the crux and heart of the issue surrounding Mapplethorpe.

It's sort of like how one can defend the local video store (do they still have those?) renting out porn, but not believe it acceptable to project the same video on the wall of a public building where everyone can see it. This, merely because they encompass two entirely separate issues.
 
Sorry man. I'm not a conservative or making a "stink" about it. That sounds like typical syskatine level tribalism. Surprising from you. I'm asking questions about the thoughts behind removal of statues. If you can point me to a "stink" I've made, I'll gladly retract my comment.

My original OP questioned how Pelosi and company are demanding the removal of confederate statues but fought the removal of "art" that was very derogatory towards law enforcement. So far I've got nothing touching that from you, sys, davidallen, or any other of the self identifying left learners. What message does the "pig" art send? How can there be such a rancid disconnect from offense from one "hate" message to acceptance of another "hate" message?

I was hacked.

-or-

The eclipse made me crazy.

Seriously though. Apologies extended. I wasn't paying close enough attention to what I had read prior to posting.
 
Wood, most of those guys you mentioned for the South also fought honorably for The US in Mexico, so we need to get a giant eraser out and expunge that record. In the case of Lee he actually helped design and build forts for the US. Hell Lee was offered command of the Federal forces.

There were numerous New England states that wanted to succeed during the war of 1812. So what about the folks that lead that...and I have no idea who the individuals were/are, but since they were most likely political opportunists I bet they have streets, building and statues around. Gotta remove them from public consumption.

Again context of the times....this whole argument is ludicrous and so spacious. I'm actually thinking about going into business making small concrete molds for all the great Confederate Generals. Just imagine, instead of one big statue in a town square you can have whole blocks of residential homes with 3 or 4 ft. statues. The liberal puss cakes heads would be exploding in mass! When they start applying this hysteria across the board (ie Robert Byrd of the KKK, Ted Kennedy murderer, LBJ using the n word often etc etc) then I'll get the warm fuzzies, until then this is a politically driven, liberal witch hunt that past book burners and statue destroyers would be thrilled about.

With inner city people killing each at a record pace, kids flunking out of school thereby killing much of a future opportunity for success, schools failing and so on, this is such a witch hunt and smoke screen for politicians and groups who should be changing the latter and not worrying about statues.
 
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Wood, most of those guys you mentioned for the South also fought honorably for The US in Mexico, so we need to get a giant eraser out and expunge that record. In the case of Lee he actually helped design and build forts for the US. Hell Lee was offered command of the Federal forces.

But that isn't what these statutes are honoring. They are honoring their Confederate service. They are honoring men who led an insurrection in this country to protect an institution that subjugated a class of humans and made them property.

Your argument would be akin to German citizens defending statues honoring Nazis because those Nazis also served in WWI and did some good things.

You are right, context of the times matter. There is a reason these statues were put up and what they honor shouldn't be honored anymore (actually it never should have been honored in the first place).
 
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But that isn't what these statutes are honoring. They are honoring their Confederate service. They are honoring men who led an insurrection in this country to protect an institution that subjugated a class of humans and made them property.

Your argument would be akin to German citizens defending statues honoring Nazis because those Nazis also served in WWI and did some good things.

You are right, context of the times matter. There is a reason these statues were put up and what they honor shouldn't be honored anymore (actually it never should have been honored in the first place).

does this mean we should give canadian kingfisher and blaine co. mineral rights back to the cheyenne arapaho?

or even the comanches who ruled thus part of the world before they were moved here?

nobody looses their homes or land it's just paper

asking for a friend
 
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Who put them up? The liberal or conservative party at the time?
What party was JFK (voted against the 1957 civil rights act), Al Gore Sr (voted against the 1957 and 1964 civil rights act) and Robert Byrd (voted against the 1964 civil rights act) in? When was this big shift where old democrats are now today's republicans? Aren't the Kennedys and Gores still libs?
 
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