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Nice, France 73 killed in terrorist attack.

So did it shrug in Baton Rouge? Or do you mean conservatives will kill people? What does that mean?

Are you sure you're a lawyer? Real question.

That you are not familiar with that phrase certainly speaks to how silo'd your philosophical foundation is.
 
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You don't hear the big advocates of that lobbying for for fewer government guns and weapons. I'm not sure that's a real sincere argument, either.

It illustrates the lie within the agenda. Supporters may wholeheartedly believe it to be sincere but in the end is it really about saving lives?

All governments and cultures are not the same. Generalizing "government" lumps the Pushmataha County Rural Water District with North Korea. Come on.

Two points here. 1. If I were to engage in that level of specificity every post would look like an an okstate1 post on the corral. 2. All cultures are not the same and that has been pointed out here in showing homicide rate comparisons between Britain pre-gun ban vs U.S for the same timeframe only for you to blow it off as baseless.

The government has already won the arms race. If it comes to that point, we just don't have machine guns, thermal imaging, satellites, helicopters, hacking ability, etc. WTH are they waiting for if something is gonna happen?

It's not an "either/or" total zero sum proposition. If you think guns are where its at when Uncle Sam comes for you, given every variable in the soup, I'm not sure having an AR 15 is going to be determinative.

Either you are not paying attention or you are being intentionally dishonest, if not obtuse. History is riddled with examples of insurgencies pushing back or defeating better equipped and better train militaries. Even recent history has examples. The Afghans and Russia, the Iraq insurgency and the U.S., the Afghans and the U.S. We have more combat experienced Veterans in the U.S. than at any other time in our nation's history. And to add to that, the overwhelming majority have counter insurgency training. Do you really believe that a defense could not be mounted against an occupation or tyrannical government? If so, you have your head in the sand. I honestly believe an insurgency here would make Iraq look like child's play.

You don't mention the alternative. How militarized are you willing the general public to become? 16 year old, hormonal girls carrying AK's? Is there a number of these mass killings with semi automatic guns where you change tactics? Stated another way, do you have some objective criteria where an objective minded person could evaluate the wisdom of your proposed laissez faire gun ownership?

An alternative? No problem, but you won't like how willing I am for the general public to be well-armed.

First, the current military.

Pull the majority of service members back home from overseas with only a few elite QRF units stationed in strategic locations. This is contingent upon the hosting nation wanting our presence and not hostile. The only intervention that will be tolerated and still requires declaration of war is actions by foreign militaries on the American Continent (Monroe Doctrine)

Reorganize the military into Active Duty, Active Reserve, Reserve, and State Militia or Guard.

Each service will develop a system for placement based on performance. The top 5% (minus special forces) will be offered his/her choice of Active Duty, Active Reserve separation, etc. The top 15% will be offered their choice beginning with Active Reserve, Reserve, etc. and if a spot opens in the Active Duty ranks they can be bumped up. And so it goes.

Second, payment and structure.

Active duty which should not exceed 160,000 combat ready troops shall receive a 15% increase in salary. I'm sorry, but it is flat out atrocious that we have active service-members qualifying for government assistance. This group is our standing army. Replenishment will come from the top 1%-5% (depending on attrition) of performers as identified during training by each branch.

Active reserve will not exceed 290k-300k troops and will be citizen soldiers ready for call up. Annual training requirements will be rank based, meaning the higher the rank the more time you must spend training. These soldiers will receive a monthly stipend not to exceed 1/2 that of their active duty counterparts and will receive active pay when on training. Laws will be passed allowing them their proper leave from work for training or defense.

Reserve will not exceed 3m troops. These will be a lot like our current reserve that do one weekend a month, two weeks of training a year. They will receive a monthly stipend for their services not to exceed 1/4 of active pay (except when called up or on training).

State Militia/Guard - Each state will set its own quotas, pay, and requirements. However, each militia member will be trained by the federal government initially and required to re-certify on an annual basis at the state's expense. The President can only call these individuals up upon approval from the Governor.

All military will have education benefits

All individuals will be provided a conceal carry license upon successful completion of basic training.

All Active Duty, Active Reserve, and Reserve individuals will have a full Individual Combat Load (ICE) provided to them, it will be stored at their personal residence, and it will be kept in a government issued safe. States may engage in this practice as they see fit and equip their troops.

Any weapon or military issued equipment found to have been utilized in the commission of a crime will result in a stiff penalty of not less than 20 years in federal prison for the offender if found guilty by a court of law.

Conscription will be against the law. No free nation should have or engage in conscription due to the fact that it requires the initiation of force or at a minimum the threat of the initiation of force which is immoral and has no place in a truly free society.

Any service-member found not to be fit for service will be discharged immediately if first attempt at remediation has been unsuccessful and after a reasonable time for improvement is given.

All service-members and Veterans, if found guilty of a felony, will be immediately discharged and forfeit all rights to payment, stipends, and benefits to include post service benefits.

A declaration of war by congress will be required for call up or the deployment of troops overseas. Troops may only be activated in the event of resurrection or invasion.

A state simply wishing to withdraw from the current government will not be considered to be in a state of resurrection.

Third, non-servicemembers aka civilians

Non-servicemembers rights to arms will be governed strictly by the state and it's constitution. The federal government will not involve itself in any way. This means that if Illinois wants to restrict the ownership of guns for citizens they may do so. On the other hand, if Oklahoma wants to allow all citizens to supply their own ICE they may do so.

All in all, told version; it's like the Swiss model on steroids.
 
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It illustrates the lie within the agenda. Supporters may wholeheartedly believe it to be sincere but in the end is it really about saving lives?

Two points here. 1. If I were to engage in that level of specificity every post would look like an an okstate1 post on the corral. 2. All cultures are not the same and that has been pointed out here in showing homicide rate comparisons between Britain pre-gun ban vs U.S for the same timeframe only for you to blow it off as baseless.

Either you are not paying attention or you are being intentionally dishonest, if not obtuse. History is riddled with examples of insurgencies pushing back or defeating better equipped and better train militaries. Even recent history has examples. The Afghans and Russia, the Iraq insurgency and the U.S., the Afghans and the U.S. We have more combat experienced Veterans in the U.S. than at any other time in our nation's history. And to add to that, the overwhelming majority have counter insurgency training. Do you really believe that a defense could not be mounted against an occupation or tyrannical government? If so, you have your head in the sand. I honestly believe an insurgency here would make Iraq look like child's play.

An alternative? No problem, but you won't like how willing I am for the general public to be well-armed.

First, the current military.

Pull the majority of service members back home from overseas with only a few elite QRF units stationed in strategic locations. This is contingent upon the hosting nation wanting our presence and not hostile. The only intervention that will be tolerated and still requires declaration of war is actions by foreign militaries on the American Continent (Monroe Doctrine)

Reorganize the military into Active Duty, Active Reserve, Reserve, and State Militia or Guard.

Each service will develop a system for placement based on performance. The top 5% (minus special forces) will be offered his/her choice of Active Duty, Active Reserve separation, etc. The top 15% will be offered their choice beginning with Active Reserve, Reserve, etc. and if a spot opens in the Active Duty ranks they can be bumped up. And so it goes.

Second, payment and structure.

Active duty which should not exceed 160,000 combat ready troops shall receive a 15% increase in salary. I'm sorry, but it is flat out atrocious that we have active service-members qualifying for government assistance. This group is our standing army. Replenishment will come from the top 1%-5% (depending on attrition) of performers as identified during training by each branch.

Active reserve will not exceed 290k-300k troops and will be citizen soldiers ready for call up. Annual training requirements will be rank based, meaning the higher the rank the more time you must spend training. These soldiers will receive a monthly stipend not to exceed 1/2 that of their active duty counterparts and will receive active pay when on training. Laws will be passed allowing them their proper leave from work for training or defense.

Reserve will not exceed 3m troops. These will be a lot like our current reserve that do one weekend a month, two weeks of training a year. They will receive a monthly stipend for their services not to exceed 1/4 of active pay (except when called up or on training).

State Militia/Guard - Each state will set its own quotas, pay, and requirements. However, each militia member will be trained by the federal government initially and required to re-certify on an annual basis at the state's expense. The President can only call these individuals up upon approval from the Governor.

All military will have education benefits

All individuals will be provided a conceal carry license upon successful completion of basic training.

All Active Duty, Active Reserve, and Reserve individuals will have a full Individual Combat Load (ICE) provided to them, it will be stored at their personal residence, and it will be kept in a government issued safe. States may engage in this practice as they see fit and equip their troops.

Any weapon or military issued equipment found to have been utilized in the commission of a crime will result in a stiff penalty of not less than 20 years in federal prison for the offender if found guilty by a court of law.

Conscription will be against the law. No free nation should have or engage in conscription due to the fact that it requires the initiation of force or at a minimum the threat of the initiation of force which is immoral and has no place in a truly free society.

Any service-member found not to be fit for service will be discharged immediately if first attempt at remediation has been unsuccessful and after a reasonable time for improvement is given.

All service-members and Veterans, if found guilty of a felony, will be immediately discharged and forfeit all rights to payment, stipends, and benefits to include post service benefits.

A declaration of war by congress will be required for call up or the deployment of troops overseas. Troops may only be activated in the event of resurrection or invasion.

A state simply wishing to withdraw from the current government will not be considered to be in a state of resurrection.

Third, non-servicemembers aka civilians

Non-servicemembers rights to arms will be governed strictly by the state and it's constitution. The federal government will not involve itself in any way. This means that if Illinois wants to restrict the ownership of guns for citizens they may do so. On the other hand, if Oklahoma wants to allow all citizens to supply their own ICE they may do so.

All in all, it's like the Swiss model on steroids.

I have no issue with a lot of that. Obviously I disagree about total lack of federal gun control...
 
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