Next Years Lineup

[JAY45]

The difference is there is an actual opportunity to continue to wrestle AND make money.

DT’s plan for all of these guys is at least the next Olympic cycle. So what’s the difference in a year, when you plan to stay in the room for another 4 anyway?

And there are 2 very huge things here - the training and the money.

Training - their bodies are not going to be beat up. AT ALL. It’s still a grind - but it won’t be because practice is so hard that you want to quit the sport.

Money - these guys are going to be able to stay as RTC athletes and not live like a pauper, like John wanted everyone to do.

You make a strong case. We’ll see how it plays out!

Edit: it seems like this is the sort of thing we rarely see these days (mass redshirting) and things never go as planned or work out in real life as well as on paper; these are unique, unprecedented circumstances.

 

[Pennstate1985]

You make a strong case. We’ll see how it plays out!

Edit: it seems like this is the sort of thing we rarely see these days (mass redshirting) and things never go as planned or work out in real life as well as on paper; these are unique, unprecedented circumstances.

Ohio State did it successfully a number of year ago. PSU has done it 2-3 times. I don't recall any punt years NOT being successful to a large degree.

 

[JAY45]

Ohio State did it successfully a number of year ago. PSU has done it 2-3 times. I don't recall any punt years NOT being successful to a large degree.

There have been 2x that have been written about/publicized for PSU; would you disagree that, bc of the glut of talent we can put them in a separate category? When would you say the third time was and how many RS are we talking about? Seems like there should be some threshold above a couple of guys.

tOSU is a rare place that can amass talent.

It sounds like we are still talking about exceptions over rules.

And, we’ve yet to see how this unconventional period of the pandemic and unplanned extra years will impact/affect.

If they do it, great. I’m not convinced at this point.

 

[Pennstate1985]

There have been 2x that have been written about/publicized for PSU; would you disagree that, bc of the glut of talent we can put them in a separate category? When would you say the third time was and how many RS are we talking about? Seems like there should be some threshold above a couple of guys.

tOSU is a rare place that can amass talent.

It sounds like we are still talking about exceptions over rules.

And, we’ve yet to see how this unconventional period of the pandemic and unplanned extra years will impact/affect.

If they do it, great. I’m not convinced at this point.

The ability for most teams to punt isn't realistic because they aren't close enough to the top or have the talent to make it matter. The closest analogy to my thought process was when Brands took several guys from VT to Iowa. He already had quality in the Iowa room and then added in several high end transfers and recruits to produce a three year run. Here, DT is recruiting transfers into a room with some talent, but doesn't have the horses nor backups to go on an immediate three year run. So he holds them back a year, possibly picks up another transfer or two next year, and BOOM, you have a championship caliber team in 2026 as you recruit for 2027 and beyond.

 

[Pokes1988]

The lightweights are incredibly talented. Skys the limit for them imo. My only concern is with Jordan Williams. He needs to get stronger but as others have said he doesn’t like lifting very much. Hopefully the coaches can get him motivated to do it.

What Alpha Male doesn't like to lift?!

Odd, considering when you're recruited (OSU or not), you're expected to hit the weights and work at it... at 149, not like he has to bulk up and bench 500 pounds but def needs to have some leg strength and upper body strength to break out and pin folks.

 

[Air_Thurman]

I just want to win a national title again. 2026 is a golden opportunity to do it. I would hate to pass on that opportunity. The blue print is there. David Taylor was literally a part of the blue print and it kicked off an unreal dynasty. It almost all lines up too perfectly.

 

[Mr.OSU]

I just want to win a national title again. 2026 is a golden opportunity to do it. I would hate to pass on that opportunity. The blue print is there. David Taylor was literally a part of the blue print and it kicked off an unreal dynasty. It almost all lines up too perfectly.

David Taylor didn’t redshirt if I remember correctly?

 

[vhsalum]

David Taylor didn’t redshirt if I remember correctly?

Wrongly remembered sir.

DT would have been 3rd string his first year. He was behind both Cyler and Bubba.

 

[Mr.OSU]

Wrongly remembered sir.

DT would have been 3rd string his first year. He was behind both Cyler and Bubba.

You are correct. I think I mixed him up with Dake. Remembered on recent video of their rivalry one of the two wrestled as a true freshmen.

 

[vhsalum]

David Taylor didn’t redshirt if I remember correctly?

Funny story from that period.

Bubba was promised a redshirt year from Sunderland, and so initially, Cael honored it. Well... Bubba is Bubba and Cael wanted him out. So told him he had to wrestle 165. Bubba showed up at a holiday tournament and weighed in over 180 - missing weight and also destroying his weight descent so Cael couldn't push him out of redshirt.

 

[vhsalum]

I just want to win a national title again. 2026 is a golden opportunity to do it. I would hate to pass on that opportunity. The blue print is there. David Taylor was literally a part of the blue print and it kicked off an unreal dynasty. It almost all lines up too perfectly.

Exactly.

Makes no sense to finish 80 points in second this year and possibly have 0 champs.

 

[Pennstate1985]

Funny story from that period.

Bubba was promised a redshirt year from Sunderland, and so initially, Cael honored it. Well... Bubba is Bubba and Cael wanted him out. So told him he had to wrestle 165. Bubba showed up at a holiday tournament and weighed in over 180 - missing weight and also destroying his weight descent so Cael couldn't push him out of redshirt.

I remember that incident very well, as does David Taylor. Don't negotiate or finesse on issues of culture.

 

[vhsalum]

I remember that incident very well, as does David Taylor. Don't negotiate or finesse on issues of culture.

Does Cael still do Friday Night Lights?

 

[JAY45]

I just want to win a national title again. 2026 is a golden opportunity to do it. I would hate to pass on that opportunity. The blue print is there. David Taylor was literally a part of the blue print and it kicked off an unreal dynasty. It almost all lines up too perfectly.

You make a strong case and don’t disagree.

It just doesn’t feel like there is going to be a scarcity of talent moving forward to where you have to over plan.

They may very well go the path your sugguesting. It still seems like there are enough significant differences between now and 2010.

I’m at over 90% of the home duals and tournaments the past several years so trust me, want to see winning and national titles as much as anyone. We’ve been paying our dues

 

[vhsalum]

You make a strong case and don’t disagree.

It just doesn’t feel like there is going to be a scarcity of talent moving forward to where you have to over plan.

They may very well go the path your sugguesting. It still seems like there are enough significant differences between now and 2010.

I’m at over 90% of the home duals and tournaments the past several years so trust me, want to see winning and national titles as much as anyone. We’ve been paying our dues

The difference between 2010 and now is how coaches use redshirts. Cael does it the best. And DT saw both of them. It's really about culture and a true focus on developing. Not just being so hell-bent on making every practice hard and seeing how much you can make guys suffer.

 

[Pennstate1985]

Does Cael still do Friday Night Lights?

Boy, I haven't heard that phrase used in a long time, but I honestly don't know the answer. Here's a link to the article on Friday Night Lights.

New coach Sanderson intensifies practices

Bubba Jenkins admits he wasn't even in shape at this point last season.Each practice, even though the season has not started, has been harder than last year's most difficult practice,

www.psucollegian.com

Some great quotables in there. Ed Ruth. Bubba Jenkins. Coaches visiting classes randomly to ensure guys are in class. All to change the culture. I wonder if DT had to clean the mats.

 

[vhsalum]

Boy, I haven't heard that phrase used in a long time, but I honestly don't know the answer. Here's a link to the article on Friday Night Lights.

New coach Sanderson intensifies practices

Bubba Jenkins admits he wasn't even in shape at this point last season.Each practice, even though the season has not started, has been harder than last year's most difficult practice,

www.psucollegian.com

Some great quotables in there. Ed Ruth. Bubba Jenkins. Coaches visiting classes randomly to ensure guys are in class. All to change the culture. I wonder if DT had to clean the mats.

I implemented this after reading about it. Worked.

something funny about the more recent Cael teams. In the article he says you can only be good at 2 of 3 things in college: Athletics, Academics and Social Life.

Marky and Cenzo certainly proved that part wrong. 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

 

[JAY45]

The difference between 2010 and now is how coaches use redshirts. Cael does it the best. And DT saw both of them. It's really about culture and a true focus on developing. Not just being so hell-bent on making every practice hard and seeing how much you can make guys suffer.

Well, that and the availability of talent through the Portal, NIL, and a worldwide pandemic that skewed timelines.

Your point on redshirting and culture make good sense.

Things are far more fluid now than 2010.

 

[Pennstate1985]

I implemented this after reading about it. Worked.

something funny about the more recent Cael teams. In the article he says you can only be good at 2 of 3 things in college: Athletics, Academics and Social Life.

Marky and Cenzo certainly proved that part wrong. 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

and Ed Ruth. I remember in the very early years drinking during the season was absolutely taboo. I guess it helps being an all-timer.

Cenzo reminds me a lot of one of my fraternity brothers. Good looking and very similar looking to Cenzo. Confident but not cocky. That guy always had football players hanging out and so many gorgeous girls around him but he was unassuming about it all. Happy go lucky and a nice guy.

Come to think of it, I hated that guy...

 

[OSUMatFan]

Next years recruiting is going to be massive. Bo Bassett, Dee Lockhart, and Jax Forest. Those are foundational wrestlers that will move the needle. I know we have one and could be more.

 

[vhsalum]

Next years recruiting is going to be massive. Bo Bassett, Dee Lockhart, and Jax Forest. Those are foundational wrestlers that will move the needle. I know we have one and could be more.

Bassett and Forrest are class of 2026 and haven't committed yet.

I do think you get both though.

 

[JAY45]

Next years recruiting is going to be massive. Bo Bassett, Dee Lockhart, and Jax Forest. Those are foundational wrestlers that will move the needle. I know we have one and could be more.

No scarcity of talent moving forward

 

[JAY45]

But Hamiti and Plott are both finalists contenders... redshirt those two and you've got two likely 1-2 finishers in 2026 that you can bank on. Plus Hughes and Carroll take their RS Freshman lumps and are more sure things going into 26. Spratley is a legit top 4 threat every year moving forward (don't really understand the people claiming otherwise...)

It's also not like you're completely punting that 174-184 spot in 2025 either... This probably lets you send Amine at 165, Fish at 174, and Thompson at 184. More comfortable weight for Thompson.

Then if you do flip, idk, Will Henckel a 184 from Penn State you can redshirt him in 2026 and the true freshman that you wrestle is Dee Lockett, who has 165 clearing out for him really nice in 2026.

I don't think it's a scarcity mindset to make this type of move.

Agreed it’s ideal in concept. If it works out to plan, it’s brilliant. Seems like threading a needle. I saw your comments elsewhere regarding things not being much different in terms of accommodations that makes sense.

Things are much more fluid these days. Who knows what the portal will bring.

From the perspective of the fans that have been grinding out year after year on the Fridays and Sundays in cold weather…next year seems like a critical year and it’s hard to imagine no Dustin Plott. And agreed that it seems unlikely that Hamiti would transfer in to redshirt.

Fish is a different story.

What happens to enthusiasm & momentum if they RS a bunch of guys and next year is a flop?

It might be minimal, it seems your proposition is not completely without risk.

 

[JAY45]

I mean not to rehash it but I was told ad nauseam three weeks ago that caring about the immediate future is short sighted and dumb and that the current roster and transfer targets didn't matter all that much in the long term.... so...

You didn’t hear that from me.

That sounds a little like all or nothing thinking.

We can walk and chew gum at the same time. The answer seems like it should be BOTH the short term AND the long term. What’s in the best interest of the program.

Next season represents a tremendous opportunity. For me, I can’t imagine going to war without the clip fully loaded.

 

[vhsalum]

Agreed it’s ideal in concept. If it works out to plan, it’s brilliant. Seems like threading a needle. I saw your comments elsewhere regarding things not being much different in terms of accommodations that makes sense.

Things are much more fluid these days. Who knows what the portal will bring.

From the perspective of the fans that have been grinding out year after year on the Fridays and Sundays in cold weather…next year seems like a critical year and it’s hard to imagine no Dustin Plott. And agreed that it seems unlikely that Hamiti would transfer in to redshirt.

Fish is a different story.

What happens to enthusiasm & momentum if they RS a bunch of guys and next year is a flop?

It might be minimal, it seems your proposition is not completely without risk.

Nothing. Absolutely NOTHING happens to the enthusiasm and momentu if you RS 5 guys.

Every wrestling fan can see what it means.

So the problem you’re not seeing - why finish 80 points out of 1st this year ?

ESPECIALLY when a mass redshirt puts in position to actually win a title just a season later

DT was hired to win team titles. If he doesn’t do a mass redshirt and I’m a OSU fan. I’d be PISSED.

 

[JAY45]

Yeah but you can save your two nukes until you really need them....

Especially when the ammo you'll take to kick this thing off is pretty dang good. Again, I know you agree with me that BT at 184 could get on the podium. Idk about Fish at 174, tbh, but I don't know if he really had the resources to get much better than he did at Michigan State.

I'll be surprised if they use the redshirt for Hendrickson... heck I'm surprised that is actually an option. I don't know if it really is.

Agree on both BT & Fish. Believe Fish will experience the Olejnik effect.

It’s kind of gone unsaid, placing 2nd is a worthy goal for next season. And they won’t look at it as anything other than pursuing a title despite the odds.

 

[JAY45]

Nothing. Absolutely NOTHING happens to the enthusiasm and momentu if you RS 5 guys.

Every wrestling fan can see what it means.

So the problem you’re not seeing - why finish 80 points out of 1st this year ?

ESPECIALLY when a mass redshirt puts in position to actually win a title just a season later

DT was hired to win team titles. If he doesn’t do a mass redshirt and I’m a OSU fan. I’d be PISSED.

I see what you are saying just fine. I’m not sure competitors are going to concede that they are out of the race before it even begins. That’s for fans.

This is a message board. You don’t have to agree with me. Happy to debate points and disagree.

I have faith there will be a significant raise in the talent level and they will take on Penn State within 3 years. I don’t think they have to get gimmicky about it. If they do choose that path, so be it. I’m on board no matter what with both my time and my money & have been for years now.

I used to think the way you are describing. Too much has changed. It seems with all the fluidity and unknowns, you’ve got to play for now.

 

[JAY45]

I agree with this for underclassmen... When you're just taking general credits and haven't picked a major or anything then the cost of transferring is really low with a really high upside of new NIL opportunities.

For upperclassmen they lose too much if they transfer without a degree. Not all of their credits transfer. Institutional knowledge. All of that stuff kinda goes away unless you're doing a grad transfer.

Are Hamiti & Fish graduate transfers? Was Olejnik? I know Hendrickson is. Haven’t looked that closely into their status.

 

[Pennstate1985]

What happens to enthusiasm & momentum if they RS a bunch of guys and next year is a flop?

It might be minimal, it seems your proposition is not completely without risk.

Think it through? How risky is it to RS everyone to next year? Do the guys lose their skill set? Are better guys going to suddenly appear in front of them? I'd have a hard time saying the chance of a flop being greater than 1%, and that may be generous. Sounds like you've been burned once or twice in your life. Again, trust in David. When you doubt him, trust in him. He knows more about these things than everyone on this forum combined. He has lived this plan for 15 years from the master. Time for him to become a master. The fact that he has never officially coached a college team doesn't mean he doesn't know how to coach a college team. He does.

 

[skylinepoke]

I like the idea of redshirting the older wrestlers if they are okay with it. I hope the younger guys wrestle this year to soak up all the experience that they can. With added seasoning for the younger guys plus the wrestling ability of the guys who redshirted, 2026 looks promising. I almost forgot that Dee will on campus also.

 

[AtownPoke]

That’s why they have to trust their coach. Its the right thing to do for them and OSU in regards to wrestling. If they were Fr we aren’t even having this argument. Imo there is zero difference between being a Fr or a Sr in regards to respecting the coach and the process. Now, if they don’t really love wrestling and being asked to take a RS is just something that’s dragging out their ability to move on then that’s a whole different situation that DT will have to address.

 

[JAY45]

Think it through? How risky is it to RS everyone to next year? Do the guys lose their skill set? Are better guys going to suddenly appear in front of them? I'd have a hard time saying the chance of a flop being greater than 1%, and that may be generous. Sounds like you've been burned once or twice in your life. Again, trust in David. When you doubt him, trust in him. He knows more about these things than everyone on this forum combined. He has lived this plan for 15 years from the master. Time for him to become a master. The fact that he has never officially coached a college team doesn't mean he doesn't know how to coach a college team. He does.

Think it through?

Never said it was risky in regard to the wrestlers and their ability. It has absolutely nothing to do with that and you are WAY off base here.

I said it was risky in the sense that you've had a bunch of people step up and dump in time, money and resources, and are ready to watch better wrestling. They've been living through "1 more year" for a decade now.

I've been among the loudest and most on board FOR this hire going to PRE Day 1 even though there was a significant portion of OSU Fans who were/are rightfully upset about what happened to the guys that were caught up in this.

This isn't my first rodeo and I'm not claiming to know more than him. I completely trust him with the program and that he'll make the right/best decisions.

This Team has the ability to place second, which would be a huge building block. I have not argued that RS everyone is a bad I idea; I HAVE argued that it is not my preference.

Again, my ass will be in a seat not matter what like it has for the past several years.

 

[TheJimReaper]

Again "redshirting everyone" really just means redshirting Hamiti and Plott... maybe Hendrickson.

I think you're redshirting Merrill, JJ, and the rest of the freshman class no matter what in 2025.

I feel like you’d want Merrill to go as a true frosh this year if you redshirt Hendrickson. Cause then he wastes a year of eligibility sitting in the bench.

 

[AtownPoke]

Again "redshirting everyone" really just means redshirting Hamiti and Plott... maybe Hendrickson.

I think you're redshirting Merrill, JJ, and the rest of the freshman class no matter what in 2025.

“everyone” means the Seniors who have a RS. I don’t think you want to redshirt anyone else at those weights though. Redshirting Merrill and Wyatt at the same time is an awful idea. Wasting a year.

 

[Pennstate1985]

Think it through?

Never said it was risky in regard to the wrestlers and their ability. It has absolutely nothing to do with that and you are WAY off base here.

I said it was risky in the sense that you've had a bunch of people step up and dump in time, money and resources, and are ready to watch better wrestling. They've been living through "1 more year" for a decade now.

I've been among the loudest and most on board FOR this hire going to PRE Day 1 even though there was a significant portion of OSU Fans who were/are rightfully upset about what happened to the guys that were caught up in this.

This isn't my first rodeo and I'm not claiming to know more than him. I completely trust him with the program and that he'll make the right/best decisions.

This Team has the ability to place second, which would be a huge building block. I have not argued that RS everyone is a bad I idea; I HAVE argued that it is not my preference.

Again, my ass will be in a seat not matter what like it has for the past several years.

I'm going to piss you and others off by saying that your feelings are largely unimportant here to the coaches, the admin, and the booster. You say you trust the coaches and the process but what I'm reading is that you don't trust the coaches and the process. You are tired of empty promises is what I'm reading, and want success now. As vhsalum said earlier today, what value is there in placing 2nd next year when you'll be 80 points back? Then in 2026, you've lost 2-3 guys and finish 2nd or 3rd 50 points back. What is the value in that? How does that excite recruits? How does that make OSU relevant?

From marketing 101, DT needs champions to market the school as a builder of champions. You don't have that next year but you do in 2026. You will find the wait well worth it. Yes, it's another long year of waiting, but at least you have a plan, and honestly, with no expectations, it's not so bad. I sleep-walked through the 2009-10 season because I was looking forward to the 2010-11 season. Embrace the process.

 

[chasepollard]

everyone means the Seniors who have a RS. I don’t think you want to redshirt anyone else at those weights though. Redshirting Merrill and Wyatt at the same time is an awful idea. Wasting a year.

Merrill will probably get a shirt too?

It's unknown if he can come here and KD Surber bulk job. If he can, he might just start. If he can't he will be wearing a shirt, red in color.

 

[JAY45]

I'm going to piss you and others off by saying that your feelings are largely unimportant here to the coaches, the admin, and the booster. You say you trust the coaches and the process but what I'm reading is that you don't trust the coaches and the process. You are tired of empty promises is what I'm reading, and want success now. As vhsalum said earlier today, what value is there in placing 2nd next year when you'll be 80 points back? Then in 2026, you've lost 2-3 guys and finish 2nd or 3rd 50 points back. What is the value in that? How does that excite recruits? How does that make OSU relevant?

I can trust the Coaches and the process and still express an opinion and a preference on a fan message board.

I went to Grad School with Chad, I've worked in the AD, and I've recently been to the 2nd biggest donors house, which gives me a pretty good sense of how these things are viewed.

The notion of a second place finish lacking value is absurd. Its a step in the process. None of this is given. Just because they load up for 2026 doesn't mean that's a given.

My main point has been that OSU doesn't need to feel like they have to cling to a few guys for fear that they won't be able to replace with equal or better talent. There won't be a scarcity of talent.

Some seem to be operating out of an assumption that the RS plan is for sure happening when we have no idea at this point.

 

[Pennstate1985]

I can trust the Coaches and the process and still express an opinion and a preference on a fan message board.

I went to Grad School with Chad, I've worked in the AD, and I've recently been to the 2nd biggest donors house, which gives me a pretty good sense of how these things are viewed.

The notion of a second place finish lacking value is absurd. Its a step in the process. None of this is given. Just because they load up for 2026 doesn't mean that's a given.

My main point has been that OSU doesn't need to feel like they have to cling to a few guys for fear that they won't be able to replace with equal or better talent. There won't be a scarcity of talent.

Some seem to be operating out of an assumption that the RS plan is for sure happening when we have no idea at this point.

i get it. let me ask you this question, and you can't pick both. Would you rather have a 2nd place next year or two champs in 2026? Which outcome is more important to your program long term?

This is just friendly banter btw.

 

[Chasingthirty-five]

DT was hired to win team titles. If he doesn’t do a mass redshirt and I’m a OSU fan. I’d be PISSED.

Wait, I thought we were told to trust him about a mass RS? But if he doesn’t do it, now I’m not supposed to trust him?

Lol but really, if we do it I’ll hope it works. If we don’t I’ll hope we have a year full of obvious improvement and hope that the gap between us and PSU is a small as possible.

I’m in it for long term. I’ll take baby steps whatever they may be as long as their forward.

 

[Chasingthirty-five]

i get it. let me ask you this question. and you can't pick both. would you rather have a 2nd place next year or two champs in 2026? which outcome speaks to recruits?

Personally for me I would love a 2nd place next year with a few finalists. Anything can happen and maybe we snag a champ. Does two champs in 2026 guarantee the team trophy?

I think go out and get 2nd (hopefully by a margin) and show we are coming. Then sell that we are coming to new recruits and top portal targets for 2026 and beyond. Strong second for a few years will get us there. Mass RS may get us there too, and I’ll support it, but I don’t think it’s an obvious decision.