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NCAAs 2022

Not a wasted year for anybody. Valuable experience.
Coach has been around long enough and is hopefully frustrated enough to identify necessary changes.
Fundraising - might be a great time for this actually. Couple years ago the sentiment was that Coach deserved new facilities but it wasn’t going to happen because he kept producing high results. This year might be the kick in the pants that the AD and the uber wealthy alum need to get this moving in earnest.
 
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turfpoke said:
Nothing like making weight one last time for that.
Click to expand...
I never thought we would be in the running for a team title. Therefore I thought we should red shirt Young. But maybe this years experience will help Young do better next year(wrestling in the Big 12 and NCAA Tournaments) plus we are recruiting so well that we will have a good replacement when he is done. Such as Cael Hughes. The injuries and bad luck hit us like a ton of bricks Mastro, Sheets, Wittlake have struggled big time with injuries and AJ was out for the year. Nationals seem to be going like the whole year, poorly. Next year hopefully we hit 35 and hopefully we get some good luck and blessing. There is not any replacement that I think would be better than Coach Smith that we could get. Voinovich and Haas really need to jump a level and hopefully Jordan Williams maybe 149 and Anthony Ferrari 157 come in as stars next year. Painfully I predicted 2 All Americans and I still think that after the first day. I hope tomorrow is a great day for us but when is the last time we had a great day in wrestling.
 
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Honestly, I'd ask John to start the women's wrestling program at OSU and then go hand pick the next HC. There are quite a few guys out there that would crawl to Stillwater to be the next HC. I think Pat P has the best track record but there are so many others out there to consider. I don't envy the person that is making the next hire.
 
Uphill climb to #35. Penn State had 6 bonus point wins in the first round alone. We will likely have 1 the entire tourney. Penn State will likely reload. Cael understands you win natties with bonus points up and down the lineup. I would expect that to continue. We don’t wrestle a style up and down the lineup conducive for bonus points. Hope I’m wrong and John and the boys prove me wrong next year.
 
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Harleycowboy said:
16th in 2009 and 13th 2018.
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16th in 2009 after a four year title run just three years prior should tell you a lot about what is happening now and will continue to happen without major change. To think John Smith is the best we can do is simply conflating wrestling ability (the best ever) with coaching ability......it's not the same and the proof is in the pudding.

The way you have to wrestle to win national championships has long passed John by.....

Would we keep a golf coach if he went 15 years without a title at OSU......hell no....and it wouldn't have gone 15 years without a change to begin with. And the wrestling program is far superior to that very fine program.

I'm grateful John Smith is a Cowboy....the greatest American wrestler of all time!! But it is time for a change. We are wasting so much talent with poor development it is a shame.

I don't think you have to stay inside the Cowboy family. But my top Cowboy to replace John for a long time has been Pat P.... but I am super impressed with what Chris Pendleton is doing at the other orange and black...and in a short amount of time. He has a great interview on Flo. He is an impressive guy!
(it was an Oregon State wrestler that beat David Carr!!....I think seeded 17th)
 
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Harleycowboy said:
16th in 2009 and 13th 2018.
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Also Surber beat Heinselman 8 to 2 in first round of consolation. Surber wrestles Orndorf from Ohio St. tomorrow G has Abas next round of consolation who embarrassed him in the first match of the year. Mastro has McKee who he beat in the dual earlier in the year. Geer has Assad who he beat in the Texas dual. Plott has Massa of Michigan in the quarters. Boy I would love to see him win which would mean All American top 6 for sure. Also Flo thought Dustin being seeded 6th was ridiculous and I'd like them to eat crow.
 
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Yeah what happened to any momentum we had from the mid 2000 title runs?

We are like the old farmer who never embraced technology and consistently gets less yields than the young buck across the road who has.We see it but are too old to change.
Just like making guys choose down even when they have no chance of escaping.
 
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lawpoke87 said:
Uphill climb to #35. Penn State had 6 bonus point wins in the first round alone. We will likely have 1 the entire tourney. Penn State will likely reload. Cael understands you win natties with bonus points up and down the lineup. I would expect that to continue. We don’t wrestle a style up and down the lineup conducive for bonus points. Hope I’m wrong and John and the boys prove me wrong next year.
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What style do we wrestle? Versus Penn State’s? Bonus point wins are the results… but how are they getting them? And how would you describe our style?
 
alex1fly said:
What style do we wrestle? Versus Penn State’s? Bonus point wins are the results… but how are they getting them? And how would you describe our style?
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They don’t ride to ride they ride to turn you. We’ve had a few of those the past few years but not many. I wouldn’t consider either Daton or AJ really good on top compared to the bonus machines Penn State routinely trots out on the mat. Suppose the question is are they identifying and signing bonus type wrestlers or developing them? If you look at the bonus points Penn State is consistently scoring over the past 10 plus years I have to believe it’s more than just dumb luck.
 
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This year looks much different without a car crash.

Yes, it’s pretty embarrassing at face value and there needs to be some change.

But, let’s tap the breaks a little and look at it objectively.

125- still alive, but Wrestled bad tonight
133- score didn’t look great, he honestly didn’t either. But everybody he faces is working towards a non-bonus loss
141- needed a year
149- tough draw, but is a borderline AA
157- he’s doing well for him but not what we expect at OSU
165- underinpressed this year, then got hurt
174- doing okay, but not an elite guy...yet
184- lunch pale guy, but not our standard
197- car wreck
285- project, not our standard

So, yes, our program needs a shot in the arm. But a bad hire sends it reeling in the wrong direction. A bunch of kids and borderline AA guys with two elite guys on the mat should’ve yielded a better result, but these are the cards this year.

If AJ were competing and there were no injuries to Mastro, Wittlake and Surber weight more than 220...we are in the hunt for a trophy. The sky is NOT falling...yet.
 
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lawpoke87 said:
They don’t ride to ride they ride to turn you. We’ve had a few of those the past few years but not many. I wouldn’t consider either Daton or AJ really good on top compared to the bonus machines Penn State routinely trots out on the mat. Suppose the question is are they identifying and signing bonus type wrestlers or developing them? If you look at the bonus points Penn State is consistently scoring over the past 10 plus years I have to believe it’s more than just dumb luck.
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Our guys try to turn. I guess what I’m getting at is, what does Penn State do that we don’t. Not a snarky question. For example RBY does some funky moves from jujitsu that gets him takedowns. And how did Zain have such an amazing bow and arrow? And how did Nickal walk out without much visible muscle and outsmart his opponent? There have to be some tricks that we can pick up.

Iowa for example tries to manhandle everybody. That’s an easy one to pick out.
 
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I think what Penn State does is evaluates talent well and they seem to get at least twice as many blue chippers as we do. They develop well too.
RBY and Cassar for example developed. Nickal, Nolf, Ruth, Retherford, etc, etc, is like saying how well we developed Dieringer and Oliver. The dudes were studs when they walked in the door.
 
That 2014 Penn State recruiting class was ridiculous. Nickal, Nolf, Nevills, Rasheed, Casssar. Maybe their secret to tournament bonus scoring is simply talent and not anything Cael is doing in the room. Not sure I’ve ever seen anyone with the ability to stick you from any position like Nickal. Whatever it is we could certainly use a little of it in Stillwater.
 
CowboyTanker said:
16th in 2009 after a four year title run just three years prior should tell you a lot about what is happening now and will continue to happen without major change. To think John Smith is the best we can do is simply conflating wrestling ability (the best ever) with coaching ability......it's not the same and the proof is in the pudding.

The way you have to wrestle to win national championships has long passed John by.....

Would we keep a golf coach if he went 15 years without a title at OSU......hell no....and it wouldn't have gone 15 years without a change to begin with. And the wrestling program is far superior to that very fine program.

I'm grateful John Smith is a Cowboy....the greatest American wrestler of all time!! But it is time for a change. We are wasting so much talent with poor development it is a shame.

I don't think you have to stay inside the Cowboy family. But my top Cowboy to replace John for a long time has been Pat P.... but I am super impressed with what Chris Pendleton is doing at the other orange and black...and in a short amount of time. He has a great interview on Flo. He is an impressive guy!
(it was an Oregon State wrestler that beat David Carr!!....I think seeded 17th)
Click to expand...
Takes like this are why I sometimes ponder leaving the board.
 
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The 'what is PSU doing differently' question is actually pretty interesting. One general observation is that many PSU wrestlers either have excellent gas tanks or they are very good athletes. Sometimes both. As examples, Nico & Zain seemed to be high pace gas tank guys, Nickal & Cassar were very athletic, and Nolf & Suriano were athletic with great gas tanks. Also, PSU pursued Daton, Wittlake & AJ - probably our 3 most athletic guys.

Another observation - I once heard a PSU coach say that they can often 'tell by looking at the eyes' whether a wrestler has the 'it' factor. They were talking about a #1 PFP recruit and said they felt he wouldn't be a champ so they didn't pursue him hard. Said he later ended an AA but was never a champ. Speculation, but I think they were referring to either Bo Jordan or Chance Marsteller.
 
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Wrassler17 said:
The 'what is PSU doing differently' question is actually pretty interesting. One general observation is that many PSU wrestlers either have excellent gas tanks or they are very good athletes. Sometimes both. As examples, Nico & Zain seemed to be high pace gas tank guys, Nickal & Cassar were very athletic, and Nolf & Suriano were athletic with great gas tanks. Also, PSU pursued Daton, Wittlake & AJ - probably our 3 most athletic guys.

Another observation - I once heard a PSU coach say that they can often 'tell by looking at the eyes' whether a wrestler has the 'it' factor. They were talking about a #1 PFP recruit and said they felt he wouldn't be a champ so they didn't pursue him hard. Said he later ended an AA but was never a champ. Speculation, but I think they were referring to either Bo Jordan or Chance Marsteller.
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I don’t think it was Marsteller cos wasn’t he committed to them at one point?
 

TheJimReaper said:
I don’t think it was Marsteller cos wasn’t he committed to them at one point?
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Yeah, before he flipped to us. I only mentioned him because maybe they didn't fight to keep him. Actually it might not be Chance or Bo. But I guess the interesting thing is that they seem to look for someone with an 'edge'. Here's the article.

www.google.com

Penn State's secret to wrestling dominance? It's all in the eyes

The NCAA wrestling championships are set to kick off March 21, and the Nittany Lions are, unsurprisingly, the heavy favorites.
www.google.com www.google.com
 
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As I told someone else … I wish we’d teach that bow and arrow. Or at least something unique.
 
Wrassler17 said:


Yeah, before he flipped to us. I only mentioned him because maybe they didn't fight to keep him. Actually it might not be Chance or Bo. But I guess the interesting thing is that they seem to look for someone with an 'edge'. Here's the article.

www.google.com

Penn State's secret to wrestling dominance? It's all in the eyes

The NCAA wrestling championships are set to kick off March 21, and the Nittany Lions are, unsurprisingly, the heavy favorites.
www.google.com www.google.com
Click to expand...
Yeah, this is a cool take. The intangibles.
 
I feel like we are getting some top guys but for the most part they seem to not develop here. Aj is obviously one that has proved his ranking was correct but his mind set and his drive is ungodly . He honestly is like many PSU wrestlers with his championship confidence he walks around with. I mean let’s be honest nobody would have guessed Fix by this time would not have a National title yet. Fix was so celebrated as a recruit . The question we need to ask is Would Fix be a champ by now if he was at PSU ?
 
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TM taken down early, couldn't escape. Down 2-0 start of the second
 
It has to be mental. Got rode he entire second. Down 3-0.
 
osudog said:
I feel like we are getting some top guys but for the most part they seem to not develop here. Aj is obviously one that has proved his ranking was correct but his mind set and his drive is ungodly . He honestly is like many PSU wrestlers with his championship confidence he walks around with. I mean let’s be honest nobody would have guessed Fix by this time would not have a National title yet. Fix was so celebrated as a recruit . The question we need to ask is Would Fix be a champ by now if he was at PSU ?
Click to expand...
Great points.I was thinking the same thing.Highly unlikely we win a team title while he is here.I would be surprised if we win one in the next 5 years.We just don’t develop hammers like PSU or Iowa.We only have 2 guys on our roster that would start at those schools.

Even if Chris or Zach don’t agree with the way things are going i doubt they will speak up.
 
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Got reversed and almost pinned. Probably going to lose 9-0. Pretty poor performance
 
How injured is TM? I'm going to have to assume it's much worse than let on. It's really hard to compete when you can only do about 2/3rds of what you need to be able to do. Heal up a come back stronger.

Lost 9-1
 
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