NATO chief urges US lawmakers to continue supporting Ukraine, warns Beijing is watching

[2012Bearcat]

NATO chief urges US lawmakers to continue supporting Ukraine, warns Beijing is watching

NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg will meet with top U.S. defense officials and lawmakers this week to discuss the continued aid to Ukraine.

www.foxnews.com

Sorry there Mr. NATO Chief, it's not US lawmakers you are demanding continue to fund Ukraine for your protection, its US tax payers. How about you go to the European countries that spit in the faces of US tax payers at every turn and get your money from there.

 

[GunsOfFrankEaton]

X 1000

 

[COWBOYintheUK]

The European countries are supporting the Ukraine.......if we don't support Ukraine now, it will cost us a lot more money down the road....

 

[2012Bearcat]

The European countries are supporting the Ukraine.......if we don't support Ukraine now, it will cost us a lot more money down the road....

I have no problem with European countries supporting Ukraine nor do I have a problem with the US providing some. My problem comes from the Europeans expecting the US to provide the majority of it and then spitting in our face.

 

[aix_xpert]

The European countries are supporting the Ukraine.......if we don't support Ukraine now, it will cost us a lot more money down the road....

Why is that? A former soviet bloc country were to get invaded and taken over by the Russians? It wasn't a problem in 1980. Its not a problem now. If Russia steps foot in a NATO country, then bomb them to the moon. Until then, its not our problem.

 

[COWBOYintheUK]

The biggest reason is that it is a Democratic country and if we do not help them it would show the world, mainly China that we do not stand by our Allie’s and friends and they would assume we would also abandon Taiwan

 

[Ponca Dan]

The biggest reason is that it is a Democratic country and if we do not help them it would show the world, mainly China that we do not stand by our Allie’s and friends and they would assume we would also abandon Taiwan

That’s a hoot! Ukraine is about as democratic as Russia. Also, Ukraine is not an official ally of ours. We are using them as cannon fodder and will toss them aside as soon as they are used up. The whole world already knows this, it is absurd to think China won’t figure it out until we do it.

 

[COWBOYintheUK]

That’s a hoot! Ukraine is about as democratic as Russia. Also, Ukraine is not an official ally of ours. We are using them as cannon fodder and will toss them aside as soon as they are used up. The whole world already knows this, it is absurd to think China won’t figure it out until we do it.

They are a Democracy. and we protect Democracies... should we not support Poland, the Eastern half of Germany, The Baltic states, they too, were Communist and part of the Warsaw Pact?........If we had done nothing, I don't think Russia would have stopped there, and China would at least have to think we would not help Taiwan.......
I just wish we would give Ukraine what they need to win, not just survive.....they are getting F-16Cs, which will help, they will be the best aircraft in theater. They need JAS 39s from Sweden, that is the best aircraft they could get, and Sweden will give them 41 once Sweden is a NATO member

 

[Ponca Dan]

They are a Democracy. and we protect Democracies... should we not support Poland, the Eastern half of Germany, The Baltic states, they too, were Communist and part of the Warsaw Pact?........If we had done nothing, I don't think Russia would have stopped there, and China would at least have to think we would not help Taiwan.......
I just wish we would give Ukraine what they need to win, not just survive.....they are getting F-16Cs, which will help, they will be the best aircraft in theater. They need JAS 39s from Sweden, that is the best aircraft they could get, and Sweden will give them 41 once Sweden is a NATO member

You are living in Fantasy Land if you think Ukraine is a democracy. Zelensky and his merry band of authoritarians have usurped so much power away from the people he’s at least as powerful as Putin. It mimics Bush’s declaration that he had to kill capitalism in order to save capitalism. Zelensky thinks he needed to kill democracy in order to save democracy.

Besides, why don’t you put your money where your mouth is? I don’t know how old you are, but if you’re under 70 I’m sure Zelensky will be happy to send you to the front. He’s doing it with own old people so don’t pretend you’d like to go but you’re too old. Just do it! Show us how badly you think “we” should help defend Ukrainian democracy.

 

[COWBOYintheUK]

You are living in Fantasy Land if you think Ukraine is a democracy. Zelensky and his merry band of authoritarians have usurped so much power away from the people he’s at least as powerful Putin. It mimics Bush’s declaration that he had to kill capitalism in order to save capitalism. Zelensky thinks he needed to kill democracy in order to save democracy.

Didn't realize TV comedians had that much power

 

[Ponca Dan]

They are a Democracy. and we protect Democracies... should we not support Poland, the Eastern half of Germany, The Baltic states, they too, were Communist and part of the Warsaw Pact?........If we had done nothing, I don't think Russia would have stopped there, and China would at least have to think we would not help Taiwan.......
I just wish we would give Ukraine what they need to win, not just survive.....they are getting F-16Cs, which will help, they will be the best aircraft in theater. They need JAS 39s from Sweden, that is the best aircraft they could get, and Sweden will give them 41 once Sweden is a NATO member

No, we should not support Poland, Germany or any of the others with our military. If they’re truly free people they have nothing to fear from slave societies. Anyway, Russia hasn’t shown to be the military juggernaut you want to pretend it is; after 2 years it’s managed to capture 20% of Ukraine and has been stopped cold. And lastly: unless the oath I took when I joined up has changed the only thing I swore to protect was my own country and the Constitution. Poland, Germany and the others weren’t mentioned in 1968.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Didn't realize TV comedians had that much power

Yes, he has the power to stop elections (where’s the democracy in that?), imprison political opponents, shut down media he doesn’t like, close down churches that are not in his favor. None of that comports with democracy, and none of it deserves our aid.

 

[COWBOYintheUK]

No, we should not support Poland, Germany or any of the others with our military. If they’re truly free people they have nothing to fear from slave societies. Anyway, Russia hasn’t shown to be the military juggernaut you want to pretend it is; after 2 years it’s managed to capture 20% of Ukraine and has been stopped cold. And lastly: unless the oath I took when I joined up has changed the only thing I swore to protect was my own country and the Constitution. Poland, Germany and the others weren’t mentioned in 1968.

You have your opinion, but supporting NATO enhances our security and actually saves us a lot of tax dollars. The oath I took stated "all enemies , foreign and domestic" , Russia is our enemy. I guess we should have stayed out of WW2, why would we help any of our allies

 

[COWBOYintheUK]

Yes, he has the power to stop elections (where’s the democracy in that?), imprison political opponents, shut down media he doesn’t like, close down churches that are not in his favor. None of that comports with democracy, and none of it deserves our aid.

WE did a lot of those same things while we were at war. Extreme steps sometimes have to be taken. And we did these things when our country was not fighting for it very existence

 

[Ponca Dan]

You have your opinion, but supporting NATO enhances our security and actually saves us a lot of tax dollars. The oath I took stated "all enemies , foreign and domestic" , Russia is our enemy. I guess we should have stayed out of WW2, why would we help any of our allies

Please explain in what way Russia is our enemy. Please explain how putting our military into potential harm’s way anywhere but America enhances *our* security. Please explain how the US accepting the major financial burden of NATO for several decades has saved us money.

 

[Ponca Dan]

WE did a lot of those same things while we were at war. Extreme steps sometimes have to be taken. And we did these things when our country was not fighting for it very existence

Oh? We did? We dissolved elections? We pissed on the First Amendment? We shut down popular newspapers, and tv stations, imprisoned our president’s political foes*, closed churches? Well, if we did we weren’t a democracy either.

*No doubt about it today our current administration is doing its best to imprison our president’s primary political adversary, but I didn’t know Roosevelt beat him to it.

 

[2012Bearcat]

No, we should not support Poland, Germany or any of the others with our military. If they’re truly free people they have nothing to fear from slave societies. Anyway, Russia hasn’t shown to be the military juggernaut you want to pretend it is; after 2 years it’s managed to capture 20% of Ukraine and has been stopped cold. And lastly: unless the oath I took when I joined up has changed the only thing I swore to protect was my own country and the Constitution. Poland, Germany and the others weren’t mentioned in 1968.

Why shouldn't we come to the aid of our allies? Isn't that the agreement we have as a member of NATO? Surely you are not suggesting we renege on our promises are you Dan?

 

[Ponca Dan]

Why shouldn't we come to the aid of our allies? Isn't that the agreement we have as a member of NATO? Surely you are not suggesting we renege on our promises are you Dan?

Yes, I’m saying we should give NATO a date certain we are moving out of NATO, lock stock and military installations. We love you to pieces and wish you well in the future and hope to maintain diplomatic contact, but it’s time for us to follow our first president’s advice and eschew all entangling alliances. The entangling alliances we’ve gotten ourselves involved in have brought us nothing but chaos and misery. Good luck to you! We’re certain you are at the point you can defend yourselves without our involvement.

 

[COWBOYintheUK]

Oh? We did? We dissolved elections? We pissed on the First Amendment? We shut down popular newspapers, and tv stations, imprisoned our president’s political foes*, closed churches? Well, if we did we weren’t a democracy either.

*No doubt about it today our current administration is doing its best to imprison our president’s primary political adversary, but I didn’t know Roosevelt beat him to it.

Why do you think FDR was in his 3rd term as President? They cancelled the 1944 elections.......go back and look at the censorship imposed during WW2.......it was extensive

 

[COWBOYintheUK]

Yes, I saying we should give NATO a date certain we are moving out of NATO, lock stock and military installations. We love you to pieces and wish you well in the future and hope to maintain diplomatic contact, but it’s time for us to follow our first president’s advice and eschew all entangling alliances. The entangling alliances we’ve gotten ourselves involved in have brought us nothing but chaos and misery. Good luck to you! We’re certain you are at the point you can defend yourselves without our involvement.NATO is

That is just stupid. You have no true understanding about NATO and how it benefits the US.

 

[aix_xpert]

You have your opinion, but supporting NATO enhances our security and actually saves us a lot of tax dollars. The oath I took stated "all enemies , foreign and domestic" , Russia is our enemy. I guess we should have stayed out of WW2, why would we help any of our allies

I support NATO, even though I completely disagree with its current course of action in expanding to even further countries. Imperialism is Imperialism, no matter what flag you fly it under. But Ukraine is NOT NATO. And as such, I am not 'not supporting' NATO by supporting a position that we have no business in Ukraine.

 

[aix_xpert]

That is just stupid. You have no true understanding about NATO and how it benefits the US.

Remind me again when Ukraine joined NATO? I searched MSNBC & NYT websites but couldn't find that article.

 

[Ponca Dan]

That is just stupid. You have no true understanding about NATO and how it benefits the US.

Perhaps you will enlighten me?

 

[Ponca Dan]

Why do you think FDR was in his 3rd term as President? They cancelled the 1944 elections.......go back and look at the censorship imposed during WW2.......it was extensive

Oh, forgive my ignorance, I did not know Wilkie was running his campaign from prison. I would add that censorship is bad enough, but censoring some of what media might say is a faaaar cry from shutting them down. But maybe I’m wrong, maybe FDR shut down the NY Times and I didn’t know it. So let me repeat myself: if the USA did in WW2 what Zelensky has done we were not a democracy. You can’t say you’re defending democracy if you’re destroying it.

 

[LAY THE WOODY]

Didn't realize TV comedians had that much power

They're trying to mimic those we have in power.

 

[aix_xpert]

Why do you think FDR was in his 3rd term as President? They cancelled the 1944 elections.......go back and look at the censorship imposed during WW2.......it was extensive

There weren't elections in 1944? I missed that lesson in my history books. And FDR was in his 4th term, not 3rd. Which was allowed. It wasn't until the 22nd Amendment in the 50s that the President was restricted to two terms.

Sorry Cowboy. But your understanding (or lack there of) of history and geopolitics is not helping you win any arguments in this thread.

 

[2012Bearcat]

That is just stupid. You have no true understanding about NATO and how it benefits the US.

Maybe you could provide us a list of how NATO benefits the US and saves us tax dollars.

 

[Tulsaaggieson]

Didn't realize TV comedians had that much power

Actually Zelensky has nullified elections, and calling Ukraine a democracy before that was questionable at best. It would better be described as an oligarchy. It makes me chuckle every time politicians yell, we need to save democracy in Ukraine. Just call it what it is, they need to save their corrupt piggy banks, at least you will know what you would be fighting for.

That being said Ukraine is a sovereign entity, and to some extent it is worth defending. However, I still stand by my earliest assessment and Ukraine is being used as a speed bump for Russian and Europe. At the end of the day, they will be used up before Russian finally takes over. Throwing more money into it, is starting to look less likely to produce any kind of positive results, and probably was that way about 200 billion ago.

 

[LAY THE WOODY]

Actually Zelensky has nullified elections, and calling Ukraine a democracy before that was questionable at best. It would better be described as an oligarchy. It makes me chuckle every time politicians yell, we need to save democracy in Ukraine. Just call it what it is, they need to save their corrupt piggy banks, at least you will know what you would be fighting for.

That being said Ukraine is a sovereign entity, and to some extent it is worth defending. However, I still stand by my earliest assessment and Ukraine is being used as a speed bump for Russian and Europe. At the end of the day, they will be used up before Russian finally takes over. Throwing more money into it, is starting to look less likely to produce any kind of positive results, and probably was that way about 200 billion ago.

How soon before Hunter and the "big guy" pulls out?

 

[2012Bearcat]

Remember when Biden said his actions would destroy Russia's economy? Yea that's another failure in a long list of his failures.

"Today, I'm authorizing additional strong sanctions, and new limitations on what can be exported to Russia," Biden said. "This is going to impose a severe cost on the Russian economy both immediately and over time." "I just spoke with the G-7 leaders this morning," Biden said Thursday afternoon.Feb 24, 2022

Biden vows wider sanctions on Russia in effort to cut Moscow off from the global economy

Biden said Thursday that the U.S. will introduce a new wave of sanctions against Russia in a broad effort to isolate Moscow from the global economy.

www.cnbc.com

 

[Tulsaaggieson]

How soon before Hunter and the "big guy" pulls out?

They can't. Zelensky has Biden by the balls with corruption. Biden will trade anything to keep his crimes out if the election cycle. Its why he is so adamant about getting money to Ukraine. He has to pay for silence. He gives a shite about the Ukrainian people.

 

[Ponca Dan]

I write this after watching the fascinating interview between Tucker Carlson and Russell Brand in which Carlson asks a question and lets Brand answer until he’s completely talked it out. One of the most crucial things Brand talks about - in my opinion *the* most important thing - is the importance of independent media to counter the narrative provided by the elites of the Deep State and disseminated through the MSM. I love it when he explains the common denominator of independent leftists and independent rightists is an abhorrence of authoritarianism. The disturbing thing to me is the willingness by many to hate what the MSM says when it delivers content about which they disagree, but the unquestioning loyalty to what it says when the content is something to which they do agree. And the spurious disavowal of independent journalism if it triggers uncomfortable feelings about a topic.

This thread is a good example when coupled with the one about the Iranian attack that killed 3 American soldiers. We deny we are being told the truth about the reason for the proxy war in Ukraine, but fall in line when we are told what an existential threat Iran poses to us as evidenced by its attack that killed our soldiers even though the Pentagon quietly says it has no proof it came from Iran. Anti-authoritarian thought would be highly skeptical about both conflicts and would understand that maybe, just maybe, we’re being suckered by both stories we’ve been told by the MSM. But for a reason that baffles me some of us think the Ukrainian proxy war is illegitimate (which it is), but are ready to unleash holy hell on Iran. I’m sure those people have their reasons for believing the Deep State controlled MSM in one instance, but not believing the other.

 

[2012Bearcat]

I write this after watching the fascinating interview between Tucker Carlson and Russell Brand in which Carlson asks a question and lets Brand answer until he’s completely talked it out. One of the most crucial things Brand talks about - in my opinion *the* most important thing - is the importance of independent media to counter the narrative provided by the elites of the Deep State and disseminated through the MSM. I love it when he explains the common denominator of independent leftists and independent rightists is an abhorrence of authoritarianism. The disturbing thing to me is the willingness by many to hate what the MSM says when it delivers content about which they disagree, but the unquestioning loyalty to what it says when the content is something to which they do agree. And the spurious disavowal of independent journalism if it triggers uncomfortable feelings about a topic.

This thread is a good example when coupled with the one about the Iranian attack that killed 3 American soldiers. We deny we are being told the truth about the reason for the proxy war in Ukraine, but gall in line when we are told what an existential threat Iran poses to us as evidenced by its attack that killed our soldiers even though the Pentagon quietly says it has no proof it came from Iran. Anti-authoritarian thought would be highly skeptical about both conflicts and would understand that maybe, just maybe, we’re being suckered by both stories we’ve been told by the MSM. But for a reason that baffles me some of us think the Ukrainian proxy war is illegitimate (which it is), but are ready to unleash holy hell on Iran. I’m sure those people have their reasons for believing the Deep State controlled MSM in one instance, but not believing the other.

The Pentagon has no proof the attacks came from Iran? I guess common sense is more rare than I thought.

 

[Ponca Dan]

The Pentagon has no proof the attacks came from Iran? I guess common sense is more rare than I thought.

The Pentagon has stated flatly they have no proof it came from Iran. But you’re deflecting. Why do you believe with all you’ve got what the MSM tells you about Iran (or Israel), but not what it tells you about Ukraine?

 

[2012Bearcat]

The Pentagon has stated flatly they have no proof it came from Iran. But you’re deflecting. Why do you believe with all you’ve got what the MSM tells you about Iran (or Israel), but not what it tells you about Ukraine?

It's real simple, where did these groups attacking the US get their weapons? Would these groups dare piss off the hand that feeds them by going against it's desires or not fulfilling it's desires? Does Iran want the US out of the Middle East? I'll even throw out the question is China calling the shots? Like I said Dan, common sense is more rare than I thought.

 

[pokestate1861]

Above all, we got to keep that money laundering scam going. Lots of people's bottom line depends upon it.

 

[Ponca Dan]

It's real simple, where did these groups attacking the US get their weapons? Would these groups dare piss off the hand that feeds them by going against it's desires or not fulfilling it's desires? Does Iran want the US out of the Middle East? I'll even throw out the question is China calling the shots? Like I said Dan, common sense is more rare than I thought.

I don’t think that’s a good answer. I think you believe the MSM when it says what you want to hear and hate it when it doesn’t.

 

[2012Bearcat]

I don’t think that’s a good answer. I think you believe the MSM when it says what you want to hear and hate it when it doesn’t.

Care to provide your answers to the questions? Then we can use common sense to arrive at our own conclusions.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Care to provide your answers to the questions? Then we can use common sense to arrive at our own conclusions.

My practice is to never believe what the MSM tells me.

 

[2012Bearcat]

My practice is to never believe what the MSM tells me.

My practice is to ask questions, find the best answers possible and make my own conclusions. Based on the questions I asked and the answers I came to, the Pentagon is trying to blow smoke up our ass when they say they have no proof Iran was involved.