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Since the 52+ stops seemed insane, I looked around a bit more for info in his area.

"In 2001, a study commissioned by the Minnesota State Legislature examined data from 65 Minnesota law enforcement jurisdictions and found that in Twin Cities suburbs like (but not including) Falcon Heights, black drivers like Castile were stopped 310 percent more frequently than expected. Though white drivers were pulled over much less often, they were more likely to be caught with contraband in their cars once stopped. Bonnie Kristian"


So, institutional racism is just in the history books?
 
Since the 52+ stops seemed insane, I looked around a bit more for info in his area.

"In 2001, a study commissioned by the Minnesota State Legislature examined data from 65 Minnesota law enforcement jurisdictions and found that in Twin Cities suburbs like (but not including) Falcon Heights, black drivers like Castile were stopped 310 percent more frequently than expected. Though white drivers were pulled over much less often, they were more likely to be caught with contraband in their cars once stopped. Bonnie Kristian"


So, institutional racism is just in the history books?

If you consider profiling to be racism, probably not. If you had a bank of 8 slot machines (7 blue, one orange) and you knew the orange one paid out 8 times more often than any of the blue ones. Which one would you jam quarters into? Assuming you were the kind of person who plays slots, which I doubt. Isn't that simply playing the odds? Does it have to be racism? Maybe it does. I don't know.
 
Funny, I said the same thing to the wife last night.

The cops in my hometown were awesome. Granted it was Mayberry compared to the shit out there now, but the cops were more concerned with you getting home safely than monetizing you.
 
Quite probably. However, I think that's a function of turning municipal police into a revenue center for the city as opposed to their primary safety function.


The Dallas police chief instituted measures to curtail just that thing. I believe tickets declined by some 40-45% under his watch.
 
Funny, I said the same thing to the wife last night.

The cops in my hometown were awesome. Granted it was Mayberry compared to the shit out there now, but the cops were more concerned with you getting home safely than monetizing you.

As it should be.

I was on the city council during the big recession. A few members of the council wanted to direct the police to start really writing traffic citations in order to raise revenue. I adamantly opposed that. The police are protect and serve. They aren't a revenue stream.
 
You didnt just rationalize why he got pulled over?

It's not like you ever went to the other side of the coin.
 
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The charges most often dismissed were failure to wear a seat belt — along with driving without proof of insurance and driving with a revoked license.

On a somewhat related now - it's pretty easy to avoid those sort of charges....or is expecting someone to wear a seatbelt racist nowdays?

Not saying anything about the number of stops or if some people get singled out (they do)....just saying if the man is out to get you, don't make it easy for him. Same thing applies to driving through certain towns in Oklahoma with abnormally low speed limits and abnormally high levels of "traffic enforcement"...
 
50+ times pulled over tells me 2 things...

He was doing petty crap like no seat belt, no insurance, suspended license, and was getting stopped repeatedly for those.

Likely from that point he made himself well known to law enforcement for repeating the exact same things. Unless you constantly change vehicles, cops pick up quick on repeat offenders of things like suspended licenses.

Could it have been racially motivated? Sure. But a more plausible scenario is the same one I've seen played out repeatedly over the years. If you give the police seemingly unlimited opportunities, you increase your odds of contact and citations.
 
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Other than major cities, Minnesota is not exactly liberal. Republicans had an increase of more than 200 cities and towns in the 2012 reelection. Much like the rest of America, you get out of the big cities and things change.
 
I have zero doubt that racism crosses party lines.
Liberals are huge racists. They are the ones that segment the population for theories power. In general, conservatives don't pander to minorities, therefore are labeled racists.

Racism certainly exists, and the POS in chief is trying his hardest to expand it.
 
Other than major cities, Minnesota is not exactly liberal. Republicans had an increase of more than 200 cities and towns in the 2012 reelection. Much like the rest of America, you get out of the big cities and things change.
"Minnesotans have voted for Democratic presidential candidates ever since 1976, more times consecutively than any other state outside of the south. Minnesota and the District of Columbia were the only electoral votes not won by incumbent Republican President Ronald Reagan in 1984."

Please find something else to do.
 
@MegaPoke The white drivers were MORE likely to be caught with contraband. That seems to put a big dent in the justified profiling argument as well.

It's all ****ed. I'm actively learning two other languages just in case. :)

Yah I caught that. What it means is that by overloading the odds, they came up dry on black drivers more often and stopped white drivers for appropriate probable cause when they did stop them.

My question is - is that racism or is it an inevitable consequence of the statistics on crime nationally?
 
"Minnesotans have voted for Democratic presidential candidates ever since 1976, more times consecutively than any other state outside of the south. Minnesota and the District of Columbia were the only electoral votes not won by incumbent Republican President Ronald Reagan in 1984."

Please find something else to do.


Again, the big cities and rural America, man. I live in liberal Washington, but beyond Seattle, there's plenty of small town conservatism.
 
Shit, I'm curious. What is it you think you stated other than an opinion?
 
"Minnesotans have voted for Democratic presidential candidates ever since 1976, more times consecutively than any other state outside of the south. Minnesota and the District of Columbia were the only electoral votes not won by incumbent Republican President Ronald Reagan in 1984."

Please find something else to do.
Damn facts. Nicely done sir. He's got the spin cycle on overdrive now no doubt, probably citing more "majorities" that defy reality.
 
Just so I understand. Are you seriously suggesting I think it's appropriate to stop people for driving while black?

No you're to art-y for that nonsense.

This stuff is reall for me. I have two mocha nephews. I've traveled with them a lot. I've seen the shit they suffer from morons. I've been pulled over with the older one driving, the officer did a complete 180 when he saw me in the passenger seat. We aren't treated the same.
 
No you're to art-y for that nonsense.

This stuff is reall for me. I have two mocha nephews. I've traveled with them a lot. I've seen the shit they suffer from morons. I've been pulled over with the older one driving, the officer did a complete 180 when he saw me in the passenger seat. We aren't treated the same.

Fair enough man. Thought it was clear though that I was hypothetically asking if it was possible the cops in that statistical sample were more motivated by stats and then asked the question for discussion purposes - is profiling racist? To be honest I would argue that it is. However I don't think every cop who profiles is at heart a racist. Some are just lazy and dumb.
 
Yah I caught that. What it means is that by overloading the odds, they came up dry on black drivers more often and stopped white drivers for appropriate probable cause when they did stop them.

My question is - is that racism or is it an inevitable consequence of the statistics on crime nationally?
Predicted this one.

It's just as easy to argue/assume that the national crime stats are scewed because more stops = more arrests.


In other words, whites could be committing the same amount of crime per capita. We just are 300% (if the article is true) LESS likely to be stopped/caught. And, if wage demographic stats are correct, whites are far more likely to have an expunged or reduced sentence/fine and far less likely to face (additional) prison time w/ the capacity to pay those fees. If @Marshal Jim Duncan's? stats were also correct about the difference in treatment during a traffic stop, I could also argue that the possibility for forced escalation into an arrest also plays against blacks for crime rates.


Again, no one is supposed to feel "guilty." You just have to question if something isn't quite right.
 
Predicted this one.

It's just as easy to argue/assume that the national crime stats are scewed because more stops = more arrests.


In other words, whites could be committing the same amount of crime per capita. We just are 300% (if the article is true) LESS likely to be stopped/caught. And, if wage demographic stats are correct, whites are far more likely to have an expunged or reduced sentence/fine and far less likely to face (additional) prison time w/ the capacity to pay those fees. If @Marshal Jim Duncan's? stats were also correct about the difference in treatment during a traffic stop, I could also argue that the possibility for forced escalation into an arrest also plays against blacks for crime rates.


Again, no one is supposed to feel "guilty." You just have to question if something isn't quite right.
I'm good with all of that. The only point I would bring up is crime committed by blacks vs their statistical minority in the population. Is that an anamoly, something driven by racism, or a reflection of a reality some don't want to discuss because "RACISM." Cop brass are driven by crime trends these days. Their enforcement is almost always formulated by crime statistics within a community.

I ask because my personal experiences tell me it isn't racism or an anamoly, but based in a cultural flaw that folks just do not want to talk about. One of the most disturbing parts of my career is the black on black youth violence fueled by seemingly nothing more than a desire for retaliation. I've seen more dead kids as a result of other dead kids I've seen than I can be OK with. At least the 80s and 90s homicide rates were because of "turf wars." Those are largely gone and have been replaced by a perpetual retaliatory mindset. Shoot mine and I'm shooting yours. Rinse. Repeat.
 
I'm good with all of that. The only point I would bring up is crime committed by blacks vs their statistical minority in the population. Is that an anamoly, something driven by racism, or a reflection of a reality some don't want to discuss because "RACISM." Cop brass are driven by crime trends these days. Their enforcement is almost always formulated by crime statistics within a community.

I ask because my personal experiences tell me it isn't racism or an anamoly, but based in a cultural flaw that folks just do not want to talk about. One of the most disturbing parts of my career is the black on black youth violence fueled by seemingly nothing more than a desire for retaliation. I've seen more dead kids as a result of other dead kids I've seen than I can be OK with. At least the 80s and 90s homicide rates were because of "turf wars." Those are largely gone and have been replaced by a perpetual retaliatory mindset. Shoot mine and I'm shooting yours. Rinse. Repeat.

What is your career? if you don't mind answering.
 
No you're to art-y for that nonsense.

This stuff is reall for me. I have two mocha nephews. I've traveled with them a lot. I've seen the shit they suffer from morons. I've been pulled over with the older one driving, the officer did a complete 180 when he saw me in the passenger seat. We aren't treated the same.
I have no doubt this is the case. However, when I served on the Dallas Grand Jury several years ago, it quickly became obvious that a large percentage of people appearing before us were stopped for doing "stupid stuff" attracting attention to themselves---not for their skin color. We had a number of cases where the perps were stopped for things like drunk driving at 3 PM while carrying illegal guns, drugs, or minor children in their cars which all raised the infractions to a felon. Or driving without using turn signals, cutting across parking lots to avoid traffic signals, jay-walking a railroad track (yep that's verboten), speeding in school zones and a host of other actions which drew attention to themselves and gave the police cause to stop them. Had many of them simply complied with the rules of society they likely would have avoided their encounters with the police. Or, if they felt the need to place the "look at me while I do something stupid" sticker on themselves at least don't be carrying prohibited stuff in your car or on your person.
 
I'm good with all of that. The only point I would bring up is crime committed by blacks vs their statistical minority in the population. Is that an anamoly, something driven by racism, or a reflection of a reality some don't want to discuss because "RACISM." Cop brass are driven by crime trends these days. Their enforcement is almost always formulated by crime statistics within a community.

I ask because my personal experiences tell me it isn't racism or an anamoly, but based in a cultural flaw that folks just do not want to talk about. One of the most disturbing parts of my career is the black on black youth violence fueled by seemingly nothing more than a desire for retaliation. I've seen more dead kids as a result of other dead kids I've seen than I can be OK with. At least the 80s and 90s homicide rates were because of "turf wars." Those are largely gone and have been replaced by a perpetual retaliatory mindset. Shoot mine and I'm shooting yours. Rinse. Repeat.
Again, crime numbers are based on arrests. If I am 300% (even 200%) more likely to be stopped, I'm statistically going to be more likely to be busted for something.

If I was being watched twice as closely, my number of traffic stops and tickets would also likely double.


Cultural flaw? Who created the culture? If America didn't allow slaves to practice their culture, who owns that culture? If America didn't allow education of slaves, who is responsible for poor education?


Let's get away from blacks. Who created reservations? 1 in 4 Native Americans is living below the poverty line.

"Two of the five poorest of the United States’ 3,142 counties are located on Indian Reservations. (US Census)"

Is this just "Native American culture?" Is it all those rain dances? That gangsta drum music? Maybe it's those "savage" flute solos?


You are right. I don't think people want to talk about these flaws.
 
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Again, crime numbers are based on arrests. If I am 300% (even 200%) more likely to be stopped, I'm statistically going to be more likely to be busted for something.

If I was being watched twice as closely, my number of traffic stops and tickets would also likely double.


Cultural flaw? Who created the culture? If America didn't allow slaves to practice their culture, who owns that culture? If America didn't allow education of slaves, who is responsible for poor education?


Let's get away from blacks. Who created reservations? 1 in 4 Native Americans is living below the poverty line.

"Two of the five poorest of the United States’ 3,142 counties are located on Indian Reservations. (US Census)"

Is this just "Native American culture?" Is it all those rain dances? That gangsta drum music? Maybe it's those "savage" flute solos?


You are right. I don't think people want to talk about these flaws.
So murder and robbery numbers are because blacks are stopped more? Huh. I would have never guessed.
 
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