Lots of calls for gun control to stop mass shootings and gun violence.

[CowboyPhil]

There was nothing (so far released to the public) that would have prevented this guy from doing what he did. None of the weapons were illegal or illegally obtained.

Illegal modification to weapons will always be possible and now the knowledge can be obtained easily by the internet.

If someone is wanting to commit mass murder, they will most likely find a way to commit mass murder. That's why I'm most interested in what they determine was his motive.

Personally I'd like to see a constitution convention convened while I'm still alive.

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

I see no reason why someone has to have a corvette.

Me neither. In fact, if 10,000 + people a year are dying from corvettes then I think we should think about making them safer.

Passing federal gun laws won't do a thing.

Federal gun laws have plainly worked. If I'm wrong, please let me know where I can go buy an affordable machine gun. Or grenade.

Or do those laws not count?

 

[CowboyPhil]

You can buy a machine gun manufactured before 1986 wherever you can find one for sale.

Grenades aren't guns and are a totally different subject. That's like asking where can I buy a tank.

 

[JonnyVito]

Guy shoots up a crowd with converted semi auto guns to automatic and what do the dems do? They call for a ban on silencers. This is why I won't trust them to get this right. The gun laws that we should be discussing are the ban of the parts that allow people to covert semi auto's to fully auto.

Also HUGE pet peeve of mine AR does not equal assault rifle. AR stands for Armalite Rifle it is like a type of platform that if light weight and durable. IT has nothing to do with the amount of bullets it fires. They have hunting guns that use this platform instead of wood stocks.

 

[OKSTATE1]

So, we should just give up, not try to find a solution, and deal with it?

Our politics today consist of do nothing, or passing laws that do not work or makes things worse.

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

You can buy a machine gun manufactured before 1986 wherever you can find one for sale.

Grenades aren't guns and are a totally different subject. That's like asking where can I buy a tank.

I'm not sure what your point is. Yes, you can buy whatever you want if you can find it for sale.

It really IS like asking where you could buy a tank.... or an AR 15. Both of them are designed to kill. One is illegal and very hard to find. The other is not.

When's the last time you remember someone using a fully automatic weapon for a mass killing? They aren't used, because the average dumbshit mass shooter doesn't have the ability, drive, or resources to get one. The owners of them aren't about to sell one illegally to a potential loon, either. Why isn't that regime of gun regulation an apparent example of gun control actually working?

 

[ctdub]

I find it difficult to believe this guy acted alone. How far apart were those 2 rooms? He ran between the 2 in the middle of the shooting spree?

 

[CowboyPhil]

When's the last time you remember someone using a fully automatic weapon for a mass killing? They aren't used, because the average dumbshit mass shooter doesn't have the ability, drive, or resources to get one. The owners of them aren't about to sell one illegally to a potential loon, either. Why isn't that regime of gun regulation an apparent example of gun control actually working?

I'm not sure what your point is. Fully auto guns are illegal. These guns were not purchased as fully auto. No amount of gun control laws would have caught this guy. Even outlawing all guns would not have prevented this as they will always be attainable by those who want them, just like drugs and everything else on the black market.

You're proving my point that his motive is the most interesting that will come out of this investigation.

What motivated a seemingly "normal" guy to buy up all of those weapons and go through the pain and resources to convert some of them to fully auto?
What motivated him to plan this attack out for at least several weeks in advance?
What drove him to commit mass murder against his fellow countrymen so randomly and indiscriminately?
Was it indiscriminate or was that concert targeted specifically due to the concert goers, musicians, performers????

 

[Been Jammin]

Our politics today consist of do nothing, or passing laws that do not work or makes things worse.

What is the solution?

 

[Cowpoke]

I've got no issue keeping fully auto illegal I'm just at a loss as to what SPECIFIC gun control laws that are not already on the books will be successful.

Thats very valid. I have no clue. I just get annoyed with the idea that many have that we shouldn't even talk about gun control because it will never make a difference, and "if you outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns" bumper sticker level drivel.

I think regulations around mental health, FBI watch lists or no fly lists, silencers, forcing manufacturers to make it harder to illegally convert a semi auto to a full auto are worth discussing.

 

[Headhunter]

So, we should just give up, not try to find a solution, and deal with it?

I think a better solution is to strictly enforce the gun laws on the books already. I don't think it is possible to stop a diabolical mad man but for everyday gun violence I think harsh penalties are needed.

States like Illinois have strict gun laws and then they give the offenders a slap on the wrist.

 

[Cowpoke]

I'm not sure what your point is. Fully auto guns are illegal. These guns were not purchased as fully auto. No amount of gun control laws would have caught this guy. Even outlawing all guns would not have prevented this as they will always be attainable by those who want them, just like drugs and everything else on the black market.

Why did he buy legal guns and then go through the trouble of modifying them instead of just buying an illegal gun?

Answer: Getting the illegal gun was much harder. That's as his point. Why don't you hear of mas shooters using full auto machine guns? Because gun control worked. Being illegal makes them more rare, more expensive, harder to get. The point above about hand grenades is also valid. Why are bombs always hand made (less effective, more dangerous for teh bomber) instead of just using hand grenades? Because since hand grenades are illegal, its not easy to get them.

 

[Ponca Dan]

The greatest mass murderers in history have been agents acting on behalf of governments. And now the "gun control crowd" wants to limit availability of weapons of mass murder to government agents. What's wrong with that line of thinking?

 

[FalseGod]

I find it difficult to believe this guy acted alone. How far apart were those 2 rooms? He ran between the 2 in the middle of the shooting spree?

It was a suite, so both the windows were in the same "room".

 

[ctdub]

It was a suite, so both the windows were in the same "room".

Thank you. I hadn't heard that. I heard he had 2 rooms.

 

[OKSTATE1]

What is the solution?

I do not have all the answers, what I am saying is that passing more gun laws is not going to stop determined mass murderers from achieving their goal. Gun laws will be used as a political pawn to obtain votes, with that cutting both directions.

We are very weak in mental health in this country, perhaps our focus should be on helping people before they decide to kill people.

We also have turned in to a society that is very vocal about it being ok to kill. We have Madonna saying blow up the white house and the media is ok with it, we had people ok with shooting the Republican Congressman practicing baseball because of their political beliefs. We had a CBS news lawyer that said the people in Vegas deserved what happened because they were most likely Republican and supported gun rights. We have more people today believing that the end justifies the means. We have a bunch of divisive and hateful rhetoric in this country right now, we have people that are intentionally trying to start a race war IMO. We are a very hateful society right now, it would be nice for the media to stop the divisive rhetoric and trying to turn people against each other. We can start with rebuilding respect for people and each other. I can guarantee you have some in the media right now and even in politics right now who do not care about the lives lost, and all they can see is more ratings, creating more hate, and creating divisive politics to create votes. PEOPLE are the problem, PEOPLE are screwed up in their thinking, PEOPLE need to change, PEOPLE need mental help, and PEOPLE need to stop putting their own selfish agenda's first and want to look out for this country and our communities first.

I travel some, I get out of the house each day. I do not see all this hate in my everyday life, I do not see all this hateful rhetoric as I live my day and the people I interact with. BUT, if you watch mainstream media? HATE. RACISM. DIVISIVENESS. I stopped watching mainstream media again, but you turn it on to get NEWS about the shooting and all you get is a good dose of POLITICAL DIVISVENESS thrown in.

We would have a more accepting and loving country if mainstream media was abolished.

People need to change in this country, that is the solution, we need to learn to care about our neighbors again.

 

[FalseGod]

Thank you. I hadn't heard that. I heard he had 2 rooms.

 

[Cowpoke]

I think a better solution is to strictly enforce the gun laws on the books already. I don't think it is possible to stop a diabolical mad man but for everyday gun violence I think harsh penalties are needed.

States like Illinois have strict gun laws and then they give the offenders a slap on the wrist.

Agreed, and close loopholes. That doesn't mean other stuff cant be looked at. I think there is a lot of stuff that is currently on the books that can be removed as well. Seems like there are a lot of goofy rules about barrel lengths, butt stocks, keyholes that can be reexamined. I'm not very knowledgeable in the area, but I've seen some regulations that seem really out of date in today's open/concealed carry environment.

 

[CowboyPhil]

@FalseGod that's a computer generated room layout created by the ny times. I wouldn't trust that. Here's one that was created before the events and it shows a connecting door to the next room.

 

[imprimis]

I do not have all the answers, what I am saying is that passing more gun laws is not going to stop determined mass murderers from achieving their goal. Gun laws will be used as a political pawn to obtain votes, with that cutting both directions.

We are very weak in mental health in this country, perhaps our focus should be on helping people before they decide to kill people.

We also have turned in to a society that is very vocal about it being ok to kill. We have Madonna saying blow up the white house and the media is ok with it, we had people ok with shooting the Republican Congressman practicing baseball because of their political beliefs. We had a CBS news lawyer that said the people in Vegas deserved what happened because they were most likely Republican and supported gun rights. We have more people today believing that the end justifies the means. We have a bunch of divisive and hateful rhetoric in this country right now, we have people that are intentionally trying to start a race war IMO. We are a very hateful society right now, it would be nice for the media to stop the divisive rhetoric and trying to turn people against each other. We can start with rebuilding respect for people and each other. I can guarantee you have some in the media right now and even in politics right now who do not care about the lives lost, and all they can see is more ratings, creating more hate, and creating divisive politics to create votes. PEOPLE are the problem, PEOPLE are screwed up in their thinking, PEOPLE need to change, PEOPLE need mental help, and PEOPLE need to stop putting their own selfish agenda's first and want to look out for this country and our communities first.

I travel some, I get out of the house each day. I do not see all this hate in my everyday life, I do not see all this hateful rhetoric as I live my day and the people I interact with. BUT, if you watch mainstream media? HATE. RACISM. DIVISIVENESS. I stopped watching mainstream media again, but you turn it on to get NEWS about the shooting and all you get is a good dose of POLITICAL DIVISVENESS thrown in.

We would have a more accepting and loving country if mainstream media was abolished.

People need to change in this country, that is the solution, we need to learn to care about our neighbors again.

If society wants a serious no-holds barred discussion on guns and violence, that discussion also has to include music, video games, movies and other forms of entertainment which glorifies guns and killing people. It's ironic that those who are the most vocal about gun control and violence after these events are a part of an industry (entertainment) which is the leading purveyors of said violence.

 

[BixbyPoke]

I think we should ban semi automatic weapons that can be easily modified for mass shootings. Just need to make it a little tougher on people to take out a lot of people at once. At the same I do believe that people with guns can help stop bad guys. But both parties in congress suck way too much d*** for common sense reform....it has to be one extreme or the other.

 

[CowboyPhil]

I think we should ban semi automatic weapons as well. Just need to make it a little tougher on people to take out a lot of people at once. At the same I do believe that people with guns can help stop bad guys. But both parties in congress suck way too much d*** for common sense reform....it has to be one extreme or the other.

So that would leave you with black powder and bolt action rifles? I can't think of any handguns that are not semi automatic.

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

So that would leave you with black powder and bolt action rifles? I can't think of any handguns that are not semi automatic.

Arguably revolvers, lever actions, pump actions, single shots and double barrel guns.

 

[FalseGod]

@FalseGod that's a computer generated room layout created by the ny times. I wouldn't trust that. Here's one that was created before the events and it shows a connecting door to the next room.

Yes, it is the one from the NYT. The caption (which is not a part of the image) states that the actual room varies, but the general layout is close enough and representative of a luxury suite at the hotel. Both explain how it was possible for him to get to both windows easily.

 

[CowboyPhil]

Revolvers are basically semi automatic, pull the trigger and you get 1 shot and auto reloaded. Yes, I forgot about shotguns.

So shotguns, bolt action and black powder.

Uh, no thank you.

 

[CowboyPhil]

Yes, it is the one from the NYT. The caption (which is not a part of the image) states that the actual room varies, but the general layout is close enough and representative of a luxury suite at the hotel. Both explain how it was possible for him to get to both windows easily.

OK based on the black lines in drawing, it appeared to me they were trying to imply that there was no connecting door to that room and that he would be running back and forth through the hallway.

 

[BixbyPoke]

So that would leave you with black powder and bolt action rifles? I can't think of any handguns that are not semi automatic.

I'd just include anything that can be modified for mass shootings.

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

Revolvers are basically semi automatic, pull the trigger and you get 1 shot and auto reloaded. Yes, I forgot about shotguns.

So shotguns, bolt action and black powder.

Uh, no thank you.

Well, yeah, but for a fewer number of shots. Then the reload is a little trickier than just sliding in a new clip and engaging the slide. They're still obviously capable of getting off lots of shots (as are slide and lever actions and even bolt actions) but they require more expertise and time to keep loading and shooting.

But it doesn't matter. The people that are against gun laws are simply raising any and every argument they can conjure up without regard to whether they'll work. I'll say this: I think there's been a subtle change and liberalization towards the issue on these boards over the last few years.

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

I'm sorry but there is no advantage to that many guns. The higher the number climbs the weirder it gets

Maybe the guy had them pre-loaded, laying on the bed so he can simply grab another and keep firing instead of having to stop and reload.

It doesn't make sense. White guy that likes country music shooting up that concert. He's not politcal. Had some money. It just doesn't makes sense.

 

[JohnVoight]

OK based on the black lines in drawing, it appeared to me they were trying to imply that there was no connecting door to that room and that he would be running back and forth through the hallway.

That guy didn't exactly look like the epitome of health. Between the above + the shooting lasting ~ 1 hour (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) = Something doesn't quite add up in my mind.

I'm pretty skeptical of media / law enforcement spokespeople / the alphabet soup of our intelligence agencies though so feel free to think I'm a kook.

 

[CowboyPhil]

That guy didn't exactly look like the epitome of health. Between the above + the shooting lasting ~ 1 hour (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) = Something doesn't quite add up in my mind.

I'm pretty skeptical of media / law enforcement spokespeople / the alphabet soup of our intelligence agencies though so feel free to think I'm a kook.

He had quick access between the 2 rooms and the shooting didn't last an hour. I've heard 10-15 minutes tops. Totally possible with preloaded guns.

Have they released the actual inventory of the 23 guns they pulled from the room as well as magazine size and any modifications applied to which guns? I know there has been a lot of speculation but an actual list from the authorities.

Motive is a big thing here and may never completely be pin pointed since the guy offed himself.

 

[MegaPoke]

I just don't see why 23 guns is more convenient to get to than placing ammo in strategic areas and having maybe 2 or 3 back ups in case of a jam.

That much luggage for one guy would've really seemed suspicious. And it would be a lot more work.

This is all very weird. Why a country music concert?

 

[CowboyPhil]

Maybe the guy had them pre-loaded, laying on the bed so he can simply grab another and keep firing instead of having to stop and reload.

It doesn't make sense. White guy that likes country music shooting up that concert. He's not politcal. Had some money. It just doesn't makes sense.

Just because he liked country music doesn't mean he didn't have political motivations to lash out.

 

[SMemmett]

I just don't see why 23 guns is more convenient to get to than placing ammo in strategic areas and having maybe 2 or 3 back ups in case of a jam.

That much luggage for one guy would've really seemed suspicious. And it would be a lot more work.

This is all very weird. Why a country music concert?

If he's truly a lone wolf that just snapped, I doubt he was looking at the demographics of the crowd, more just a huge mass of people from a very high, hard-to-quickly-reach vantage point.

 

[Cowpoke]

I think we should ban semi automatic weapons that can be easily modified for mass shootings. Just need to make it a little tougher on people to take out a lot of people at once. At the same I do believe that people with guns can help stop bad guys. But both parties in congress suck way too much d*** for common sense reform....it has to be one extreme or the other.

I don't want semi auto's banned, that completely f&*#s up home defense. But forcing manufactures to make their semis more difficult to convert to full auto would be good imo. I'm (wildly) guessing that they intentionally leave the semi versions of their full autos easy to modify to increase sales.

 

[CowboyPhil]

I just don't see why 23 guns is more convenient to get to than placing ammo in strategic areas and having maybe 2 or 3 back ups in case of a jam.

That much luggage for one guy would've really seemed suspicious. And it would be a lot more work.

This is all very weird. Why a country music concert?

Again an inventory would be great for us internet sleuths to come up with theories. If he converted them to full auto, he probably realized he would run the risk of overheating barrels, therefore needing more guns.

As far as the luggage, he had 4 days to transport them up. He could have brought 1 at a time for 3 times a day and would have had all of them up there.

 

[JohnVoight]

I've heard 10-15 minutes tops.

I've read it took law enforcement ~70 minutes to respond (from the time shots were reported until they entered his room). Maybe he wasn't shooting the whole time?

Full disclosure: I thought it was weird enough that it took that long to respond on the Vegas Strip of all places but then again, I realize real life events aren't like movies. Maybe the delay was because of safety protocol or something similar.

 

[Cowpoke]

I've read it took law enforcement ~70 minutes to respond (from the time shots were reported until they entered his room). Maybe he wasn't shooting the whole time?

Full disclosure: I thought it was weird enough that it took that long to respond on the Vegas Strip of all places but then again, I realize real life events aren't like movies. Maybe the delay was because of safety protocol or something similar.

I heard that as well and couldn't figure out how it would take an hour to get in. Seems like they could have figured the room number out pretty fast.

 

[CowboyPhil]

I've read it took law enforcement ~70 minutes to respond (from the time shots were reported until they entered his room). Maybe he wasn't shooting the whole time?

Full disclosure: I thought it was weird enough that it took that long to respond on the Vegas Strip of all places but then again, I realize real life events aren't like movies. Maybe the delay was because of safety protocol or something similar.

Doing a more in depth search I found some timelines that agree with you. 10:08 was report of first shots fired and 11:23 when officers announce their breach of the suite.

 

[MegaPoke]

I don't want semi auto's banned, that completely f&*#s up home defense. But forcing manufactures to make their semis more difficult to convert to full auto would be good imo. I'm (wildly) guessing that they intentionally leave the semi versions of their full autos easy to modify to increase sales.

I've always heard it's very hard to convert to full auto in the traditional sense. I might be wrong but I've heard that a lot.

Shortcut things like a crank or bump stock on the other hand are easy and serve no purpose. I would have no problem with making these things illegal. You can't hunt or defend yourself with them. You can just spray and make noise.