I think lots of wrestling people think Cael will talk RBY into coming back next year at least 2nd semester to wrestle. Cael seems to get his way 95% of the time while we get our way about 33% of the time ( just made up those numbers but they seem fairly accurate). I do hope things go our way, it seems like we are due. We have lots of talent but we need to stay healthy and that talent needs to be developed better. The way this year is going it would not shock me to have 1 or 2 All Americans. I believe momentum year to year does effect results but that does not mean we couldn't win Nationals next year.
Increase Attendance - Ideas
- Thread starter alex1fly
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As long as we can get out of the down position. We are absolutely awful at it... Aside from Fix, IDK if I've ever seen us be that bad. It's a two point swing every time.
they’ll still be talented, of course, but they have similar question marks to us. Can’t give them Van Ness and Facundo and take away Voinovich, Haas and Mastro from us (not that you’re doing that, just as an example.)
I also still have a ton of faith in Plott… obviously… but I laid it out above that if you see Mastro, Young, Plott and Surber jump levels then OSU has a very real chance.
I don’t think they’ll be able to talk RBY into coming back and word is that Dean won’t take his 6th year either. PSU isn’t allowing their athletes to take NIL money… which could change, in which case they will likely get both of those guys back
I agree about Young. He needs strength & experience. By next year he could be a star. I think Mastro is an AA when healthy. Surber is very likely an AA with another 20 pounds. Plott is the one I'm most concerned about. He doesn't shoot his go to sweep single anymore, it's like he doesn't trust his left shoulder anymore.
They just pay them under the table. Have been for years. No other way you can explain having multiple all Americans riding the bench and repeatedly getting screwed over by Cael.
PSU will do anything to keep winning so I doubt they will be falling back much. One thing PSU has shown us you don’t bet against them. Iowa will take a big step back but the Buckeyes could take big step forwards also.
When I saw Haines beat Gallagher in an Open I thought he will likely wrestle 157 next year as a true freshman. Gallagher almost killed Travis Mastro at who's number 1 but Mastro was way undersized. With as little as Travis has wrestled in the last 2 years I don't know what to expect of him. I think next year Ferrari or Williams will likely wrestle 157. I like the idea of Williams wrestling next year and redshirting the next with Ferrari wrestling the next year after redshirting next year. Williams can then spend over a year on becoming a 165 and becoming a better wrestler.
The bad news is Mastro seems to get injured a lot, even going back to his junior year of HS. The good news is there was a post indicating that a former AA thinks Mastro has a high ceiling. Hopefully he gets healthy and puts on some size. I'd like to see him challenge for 149.
I think your Williams/Ferrari plan makes the most sense. Might come down to Williams & Mechler @ 157 next year.
I also like Teague Travis a lot, can he push for the 141/149 spot? And Blake Skidgel is interesting too. Young for his grade, multi sport athlete. Is he a solid backup or can he challenge for 174?
I hope Travis Mastrogiovanni is developing well. I watched him get rag dolled by P Gallagher. Not sure who thought that was a good idea.
I’m going to put my money on a kid that we know will be physically strong enough for 157. Anthony Ferrari.
Redshirt as many as possible, but if someone is the best, get them on the mat.
I’m going to put my money on a kid that we know will be physically strong enough for 157. Anthony Ferrari.
Redshirt as many as possible, but if someone is the best, get them on the mat.
I agree next year whatever the weight our best wrestler there needs to wrestle. That will be the 1st year with talent I believe we have a chance to win 35.
It would surprise me if your last paragraph guys made the lineup or became stars. However I have been thinking why have we not had any Johnny Thompson's or Chris Pendleton's for so long. Guys who came in not looking like stars but they quickly became stars.
Harley, stars would be great, but I'd be very happy with a Nolan Boyd type surprise.
The thing that really grabbed my attention was John saying he planned to send Travis & Skidgel to the Scuffle. We usually only send true freshmen to the Scuffle if they are showing something in the room.
AJ Ferrari and Fix are a good foundation. We need at least 2-3 of the others to be wrestling on Friday night in the semifinals. Then a couple of more battling back through the wrestlebacks.
I have high hopes Plott, Carter Young, and Surber. Cheering for Fix’s NC and seeing how these guys do in the postseason is what we really have left to cheer for.
I can’t remember what Mastrogiovanni and Wittlake looked like when they weren’t injured. Been a rough year for those two.
149, 157, and 184: Voinovich redshirted and wrestled this year so I’ll give him the nod at 149. If G goes on a special postseason run and finishes top 5 then it would be nice to see him back, I am sure he wants to be part of a team title. I think he is done though.
157- I’m praying that Anthony Ferrari comes in like big brother and is ready to go. I’m sure he’s been lifting weights since he was 3 years old and has the same Ferrari chip on his shoulder.
184- Haas or Taco? I hope Haas is a beast. Lee says Haas can get to AJ’s legs and score. That’s a pretty small group of guys.
Keep people healthy and the future looks bright.
Facundo and Van Ness (though I'm not that familiar with Van Ness) are top of the line elite guys that almost always pan out as immediately great. Our young guys are really, really good but not quite that level. Fix and Ferrari were at that level and have obviously panned out.
Plott and Jordan Williams are at that level... both had offers from Penn State... just depends. There's no guarantee that those two will pan out either.
Back in 2017 here is what Flo had projected for Penn State’s lineup this season:
125 - Brody Teske, RJr.
133 - Gavin Teasdale, RJr.
141 - Adam Busiello, RSo.
149 - Roman Bravo-Young, RJr.
157 - Brady Berge, RSr.
165 - Joe Lee, RJr.
174 - Mason Manville, RSr.
184 - Travis Wittlake, RJr.
197 - Michael Beard, RJr.
285 - Seth Nevills, RJr.
I wouldn’t spend too much time projecting future lineups.
125 - Brody Teske, RJr.
133 - Gavin Teasdale, RJr.
141 - Adam Busiello, RSo.
149 - Roman Bravo-Young, RJr.
157 - Brady Berge, RSr.
165 - Joe Lee, RJr.
174 - Mason Manville, RSr.
184 - Travis Wittlake, RJr.
197 - Michael Beard, RJr.
285 - Seth Nevills, RJr.
I wouldn’t spend too much time projecting future lineups.
Wow and two of those guys have worked out for them... At the time that lineup would be considered unbeatable though.
OK. I've got it.
Host some home duals in Tulsa. Host some home duals in OKC. This is so obvious I'm amazed it hasn't been done or discussed (at least to my knowledge).
Think about it. Stillwater has a regional population of 80,000, give or take. Iowa City, in contrast, has around 500,000 people within 30 minutes' travel time. Ames has 540,000 people within 30 minutes. So of course attendance for wrestling is low at GIA. You could pump all the marketing you want into the area and you still only have around 80,000 people that would realistically travel 30 minutes or less to attend a dual.
OKC and Tulsa combined, however, have a regional population of around 1,800,000. That's a 200,000-ish% increase in reachable people that would potentially come to an event. Many OSU grads settle in OKC and Tulsa, both cities have OSU campuses, AND there are dozens of high school wrestling programs in both cities, so the fan base is there. Want to get folks energized about the program? Bring the heralded OSU Wrestling Program to their door and make it easy for them to attend and engage with an event!
There are parallels with the way that music as entertainment evolved over time. It used to be that the main form of live music was orchestras performing in one concert hall. Then it evolved to bands travelling to gather new fans. I propose that OSU consider taking several home duals to the largest cities in Oklahoma, which also happen to have OSU campuses, to energize the fan base and bring new people in the door. And who knows, after we grow the fanbase in OKC and Tulsa then more folks may start coming to duals at GIA!
Anyways. I'm sure you all will take this right to the Athletic Director and make it happen. Thanks for reading
Host some home duals in Tulsa. Host some home duals in OKC. This is so obvious I'm amazed it hasn't been done or discussed (at least to my knowledge).
Think about it. Stillwater has a regional population of 80,000, give or take. Iowa City, in contrast, has around 500,000 people within 30 minutes' travel time. Ames has 540,000 people within 30 minutes. So of course attendance for wrestling is low at GIA. You could pump all the marketing you want into the area and you still only have around 80,000 people that would realistically travel 30 minutes or less to attend a dual.
OKC and Tulsa combined, however, have a regional population of around 1,800,000. That's a 200,000-ish% increase in reachable people that would potentially come to an event. Many OSU grads settle in OKC and Tulsa, both cities have OSU campuses, AND there are dozens of high school wrestling programs in both cities, so the fan base is there. Want to get folks energized about the program? Bring the heralded OSU Wrestling Program to their door and make it easy for them to attend and engage with an event!
There are parallels with the way that music as entertainment evolved over time. It used to be that the main form of live music was orchestras performing in one concert hall. Then it evolved to bands travelling to gather new fans. I propose that OSU consider taking several home duals to the largest cities in Oklahoma, which also happen to have OSU campuses, to energize the fan base and bring new people in the door. And who knows, after we grow the fanbase in OKC and Tulsa then more folks may start coming to duals at GIA!
Anyways. I'm sure you all will take this right to the Athletic Director and make it happen. Thanks for reading
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While I get the point, what about the students? Whil one could argue few students are going at this point and we should focus elsewhere, I think many of our current fans, such as those that travel to nationals and other matches, became fans as students and have continued throughout their adult lives. So if we wonder about the future fan base of OSU, I wonder if moving duals is good.OK. I've got it.
Host some home duals in Tulsa. Host some home duals in OKC. This is so obvious I'm amazed it hasn't been done or discussed (at least to my knowledge).
Think about it. Stillwater has a regional population of 80,000, give or take. And many OSU grads leave the area after school. So of course attendance for wrestling is low at GIA. You could pump all the marketing you want into the area and you still only have around 80,000 people that would realistically travel 30 minutes or less to attend a sporting event.
OKC and Tulsa combined, however, have a regional population of around 1,800,000. That's a 200,000-ish% increase in reachable people that would potentially come to an event. Many OSU grads settle in OKC and Tulsa, both cities have OSU campuses, AND there are dozens of high school wrestling programs in both cities, so the fan base is there. Want to get folks energized about the program? Bring the heralded OSU Wrestling Program to their door and make it easy for them to attend and engage with an event!
There are parallels with the way that music as entertainment evolved over time. It used to be that the main form of live music was orchestras performing in one concert hall. Then it evolved to bands travelling to gather new fans. I propose that OSU consider taking several home duals to the largest cities in Oklahoma, which also happen to have OSU campuses, to energize the fan base and bring new people in the door. And who knows, after we grow the fanbase in OKC and Tulsa then more folks may start coming to duals at GIA!
Anyways. I'm sure you all will take this right to the Athletic Director and make it happen. Thanks for reading
The other issue is tv/ streaming. I live out of state and missed the biggest dual of the year as we decided to have it in Texas and FLO to cover and I don’t subscribe to FLO as I cancelled when we went to ESPN +.
you can't combine OKC and Tulsa for comparison. That makes no sense. We are sitting halfway between them.OK. I've got it.
Host some home duals in Tulsa. Host some home duals in OKC. This is so obvious I'm amazed it hasn't been done or discussed (at least to my knowledge).
Think about it. Stillwater has a regional population of 80,000, give or take. Iowa City, in contrast, has around 500,000 people within 30 minutes' travel time. Ames has 540,000 people within 30 minutes. So of course attendance for wrestling is low at GIA. You could pump all the marketing you want into the area and you still only have around 80,000 people that would realistically travel 30 minutes or less to attend a dual.
OKC and Tulsa combined, however, have a regional population of around 1,800,000. That's a 200,000-ish% increase in reachable people that would potentially come to an event. Many OSU grads settle in OKC and Tulsa, both cities have OSU campuses, AND there are dozens of high school wrestling programs in both cities, so the fan base is there. Want to get folks energized about the program? Bring the heralded OSU Wrestling Program to their door and make it easy for them to attend and engage with an event!
There are parallels with the way that music as entertainment evolved over time. It used to be that the main form of live music was orchestras performing in one concert hall. Then it evolved to bands travelling to gather new fans. I propose that OSU consider taking several home duals to the largest cities in Oklahoma, which also happen to have OSU campuses, to energize the fan base and bring new people in the door. And who knows, after we grow the fanbase in OKC and Tulsa then more folks may start coming to duals at GIA!
Anyways. I'm sure you all will take this right to the Athletic Director and make it happen. Thanks for reading
We wrestled a home dual against Minnesota the year Espo and Mocco were seniors in OKC at the ford center. Decent crowd, but not as much as it would take to rent either the arena there or BOK.
I wouldn't mind one dual a year in OKC or Tulsa though. might help. I am not smart enough to figure it out.
Well what about the students at OSU-OKC, OSU-Tulsa? They don't get ANY OSU duals near their campuses. If you want to increase the fan base, get more $$ into the Cowboy RTC, you can't just keep banking on OSU-Stillwater students. Dual attendance at GIA hasn't really gone up in a long time despite 30,000 students coming and going every year.
I debated whether to separate the cities in the calcs. OKC area has about a million people, Tulsa area has about 800,000 people. Those regional draws still beat the pants off of Stillwater's 80,000 person regional draw. Obviously there'd be details to work out but I don't think you'd have to rent a huge venue - there are probably some pre-existing relationships that could be leveraged to get the duals into venues for cheap or free.
There are about 20k students on the Stillwater campus and the focus needs to be on getting them to all of your events. That's the source of your current attendance, but also your future fans and your donors.
It's not just wrestling that struggles to get those students into seats. GIA in general is poorly attended. Football games are "be seen and then go back to the tailgate" affairs. I think the baseball games do ok when the weather turns, but I don't know that for sure as I don't really keep up with baseball.
This also isn't just an OSU issue. If you look at the crowd at Penn State duals, it's mostly blue hairs. Iowa duals is mostly people from around the state that didn't go to Iowa. Pretty much everybody is struggling to get the modern student to show up to sporting events in pretty much every sport.
Attendance is a complicated question. Taking duals away from Stillwater isn't the answer, in my opinion. It's only an hour from the cities you mention... and, yeah, two hours round trip with a family on a Friday evening is difficult. However if you're a wrestling fan in Oklahoma, you're likely an Oklahoma State fan first... so having events in OKC and Tulsa doesn't really gain all that much.
If you're going to barn storm... do it in places that will have a meaningful impact on recruiting and fan growth. I love the weekends where we have three duals in Philadelphia, New Jersey, and New York. When we wrestle at West Virginia, it should be tied to a dual with Pittsburgh. I love going to Little Rock and California for duals. For all of those programs, we are a huge draw and they typically set their attendance high water marks when we go there.
I also think that the "Bout at the Ballpark" was a decent idea on principle. The execution was awful and the venue wasn't good... but coming down to Texas and making sure that if you're a wrestling fan in Texas, you cheer for OSU, is a great idea. I don't think that we should wrestle Iowa down here ever again... but if we could schedule the North Carolina schools in a quad at the Allen Events Center or in Cedar Park or at a similar venue in Houston, it would make big impacts on both fan numbers and future recruiting opportunities.
Idk. TL;DR... OSU needs to get students to go to all sports at a better clip. Wrestling needs to do more national barn storming.
It's not just wrestling that struggles to get those students into seats. GIA in general is poorly attended. Football games are "be seen and then go back to the tailgate" affairs. I think the baseball games do ok when the weather turns, but I don't know that for sure as I don't really keep up with baseball.
This also isn't just an OSU issue. If you look at the crowd at Penn State duals, it's mostly blue hairs. Iowa duals is mostly people from around the state that didn't go to Iowa. Pretty much everybody is struggling to get the modern student to show up to sporting events in pretty much every sport.
Attendance is a complicated question. Taking duals away from Stillwater isn't the answer, in my opinion. It's only an hour from the cities you mention... and, yeah, two hours round trip with a family on a Friday evening is difficult. However if you're a wrestling fan in Oklahoma, you're likely an Oklahoma State fan first... so having events in OKC and Tulsa doesn't really gain all that much.
If you're going to barn storm... do it in places that will have a meaningful impact on recruiting and fan growth. I love the weekends where we have three duals in Philadelphia, New Jersey, and New York. When we wrestle at West Virginia, it should be tied to a dual with Pittsburgh. I love going to Little Rock and California for duals. For all of those programs, we are a huge draw and they typically set their attendance high water marks when we go there.
I also think that the "Bout at the Ballpark" was a decent idea on principle. The execution was awful and the venue wasn't good... but coming down to Texas and making sure that if you're a wrestling fan in Texas, you cheer for OSU, is a great idea. I don't think that we should wrestle Iowa down here ever again... but if we could schedule the North Carolina schools in a quad at the Allen Events Center or in Cedar Park or at a similar venue in Houston, it would make big impacts on both fan numbers and future recruiting opportunities.
Idk. TL;DR... OSU needs to get students to go to all sports at a better clip. Wrestling needs to do more national barn storming.
This was essentially my thought - that having a couple of duals in OKC/Tulsa each season would grow the fanbase, get butts in seats, build hype, reach more in-state alums, etc. And it'd be easier for out of state alums to attend (which means more potential donors) because of the major airports. Getting to Stillwater is just that much more challenging and expensive.
If we're "asking hard questions", I think "how does OSU Wrestling get more alums and young wrestlers to attend duals" one worth mulling over, and having a couple of duals in OKC/Tulsa each season would be an answer to that question without being too drastic.
I agree with you in principle but I just don't know if I see the value of doing things in OKC or Tulsa when Stillwater really is just right there.
My perception may be skewed though because I live in North Texas... so 8 hours round trip is a much more difficult sell, but I've convinced myself that I'd be at everything if I lived in OKC or Tulsa.
Personally I think having each Tulsa and OKC host a home dual would be a good experiment for possibly increasing the attendance. Sure it would create challenges for students who would regularly attend but it would also give the opportunity to others who can’t make the 2 hr round trip drive.
I was amazed at the turnout for bedlam at Lloyd noble this year and we all know OU hasn’t been filling the stands for their home duals lately. I saw a lot of people there I knew from the OKC area who aren’t die hard wrestling fans or big OU/OSU supporters, but came to watch the dual anyway. I would imagine that it would pull in some curious spectators and casual fans who can’t justify making the trip to Stillwater. It’s something the program should consider and it’s that type of thinking outside the box mentality that the programs needs right now.
I was amazed at the turnout for bedlam at Lloyd noble this year and we all know OU hasn’t been filling the stands for their home duals lately. I saw a lot of people there I knew from the OKC area who aren’t die hard wrestling fans or big OU/OSU supporters, but came to watch the dual anyway. I would imagine that it would pull in some curious spectators and casual fans who can’t justify making the trip to Stillwater. It’s something the program should consider and it’s that type of thinking outside the box mentality that the programs needs right now.
In 1960 when I started at OK ST we had student activity passes that were good to get into wrestling matches but it was the original Gallagher and the student interest was so high that for wrestling your activity passes could only be used every other match. Record attendance was over 8,000 and the Fire Dept quickly put a stop to that as it included chairs on the floor and in every available space as the actual seating was around 6,500.
Those days are long gone. I won't say the average fan is as old as me (81) but it is definitely an older crowd and students are not a big part of it. I agree with Lee and others that the emphasis should be in attracting students but I do not know the magic formula to get them there. However, for the most part I do not think having matches in OKC or Tulsa would attract more fans in the long run.
Those days are long gone. I won't say the average fan is as old as me (81) but it is definitely an older crowd and students are not a big part of it. I agree with Lee and others that the emphasis should be in attracting students but I do not know the magic formula to get them there. However, for the most part I do not think having matches in OKC or Tulsa would attract more fans in the long run.
Well I’m glad I’m not completely crazy, lol.
it’s not like it’s mutually exclusive. OSU could have a dual in OKC, a dual in Tulsa, and still try things to increase student attendance in Stillwater. They don’t have to pick a single thing and ignore everything else.
Well I’m glad I’m not completely crazy, lol.
it’s not like it’s mutually exclusive. OSU could have a dual in OKC, a dual in Tulsa, and still try things to increase student attendance in Stillwater. They don’t have to pick a single thing and ignore everything else.
Which is why, as much as it pains me to say, it's important that OU is more competitive in the sport. That logo sells the papers in Oklahoma. It sucks, but it is.
scheduling is important also. Big home Dual every year. Iowa, Penn State, Arizona State, Make sure one big draw on home schedule annually. We have lacked in that department for a few years.
That's a two way street though. Those schools have to agree to come to Stillwater. Penn State has outright refused since 2014 or so. Same with Michigan. The only Big 10 schools with the balls to consistently come in are Minnesota and Iowa.
Big schools might come in to OKC or Tulsa. Easier to get to for the team and fans, cheaper travel, home team advantage for OSU but in a slightly more neutral venue, more to do for folks that want to do more than just attend a dual. Heck even some students might want to drive down from Stilly because it's an excuse to go play in the city.
I'd love to know more about why we can't get big schools to do duals. Even with us as the visitors. We only had three top #15 opponents last year. Is it money? Politics/personality? History? A united front against OSU to destroy it's wrestling program? JK on the last one, kind of. Lol
I'd love to know more about why we can't get big schools to do duals. Even with us as the visitors. We only had three top #15 opponents last year. Is it money? Politics/personality? History? A united front against OSU to destroy it's wrestling program? JK on the last one, kind of. Lol
It's because we're good and Big 10 schools get enough challenge in their conference schedule that they don't feel the need to add us to their docket. Rutgers had us on the schedule to set an attendance record in their new venue, then backed out of their return trip.
Penn State has been wrestling Arizona State because of a promise to RBY.
I don't think they'll suddenly agree to do OKC or Tulsa instead of Stillwater. This isn't basketball and the sport's hall of fame is right next door to our arena. It's like playing in Yankee Stadium. There's a reason the Iowa State and UNI guys got so hyped to win there and were taking pictures and everything after the dual.
All of that said, we should have Stanford, Arizona State, Oregon State, and the North Carolina schools on our schedule more often than not. Couple that in with Pitt, Lehigh, Princeton, and Cornell and you get enough challenge without the Big 10 schools.
Penn State has been wrestling Arizona State because of a promise to RBY.
I don't think they'll suddenly agree to do OKC or Tulsa instead of Stillwater. This isn't basketball and the sport's hall of fame is right next door to our arena. It's like playing in Yankee Stadium. There's a reason the Iowa State and UNI guys got so hyped to win there and were taking pictures and everything after the dual.
All of that said, we should have Stanford, Arizona State, Oregon State, and the North Carolina schools on our schedule more often than not. Couple that in with Pitt, Lehigh, Princeton, and Cornell and you get enough challenge without the Big 10 schools.
You’d think Penn State would want to come in and beat us as much as possible. There really hasn’t been a path for us to beat them in a dual for a while.
Last year- when we were healthy, and after their transfers
Mastro vs Hilderbrant
Fix vs RBY
Young vs Lee
G vs Bartlett
Sheets vs
Wittlake vs Berge
Plott vs Starocci
Geer be Brooks
Ferrari vs Dean
Surber vs Kerkvliet
It might draw the fans but that could get really ugly.
Best case- Mastro, Fix, G, Sheets, Wittlake, and Ferrari win by Dec. 18 for us. They’d still get around 18 to 19 points in those other 3 matches.
Worst case- well, we know how bad that would be.
Cael likes to have guaranteed wins while being able to sit out guys, so that may be the case. It would be tough if they wanted to sit out RBY and Lee for example.
