Politics has always been in sports.
Always.
Sure. But there are some differences that I probably need to save for when this gets moved to the 24/7 board.
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Politics has always been in sports.
Always.
So because these young athletes want their individual voices to be heard off the field.. we as fans can't discuss the games they play for our entertainment without discussing our own political views versus their outlook.
That's my main question.
Maybe I'm biased as I've been knee deep in politics since I was 5 years old, but I can separate a person's politics from their actions and be able to discuss topics without everything resorting to libs vs conservatives or Democrat vs Republican. I'm just hoping that one day this board will get back to being able to cuss and discuss practice reports or dismissed players without devolving into the mess.
Sure. But there are some differences that I probably need to save for when this gets moved to the 24/7 board.
I resemble this remark.The athletes brought the politics in to sports, not the fans. Your frustration should be at the athletes for politicizing sports, many of us are really frustrated by that and agree that is taking the fun out of sports and because of that some are no longer watching or buying tickets.
Some may not care about politics, but a majority of Americans do care and sports is no longer entertainment. Some could give 2 shits what happens during the playing of a national anthem or what is on a player's jersey, or what a player says on twitter or to a microphone, but some really do. Some just want to be entertained, and go to sports to get a respite from life. Going to make entertainment about real life shit and your own viewpoints? It ruins it for a bunch of people.
1. More and more frequently they cross over in real life. Kneeling, WokeCenter etc. that can be ignored or addressed. Grownups should be able to address it.
2. Once politics is introduced, it can again - either be ignored and allowed to fester, or it can be addressed and pressured to roll back.
I would love to discuss sports without politics, watch movies and tv without insufferable preachy lessons and listen to music about sex, love and youthful rebellion like we used to. BUT if that Is going to be force fed to us, we not only can push back but we should.
If you are honest with yourself, this is not a two way encroachment. One ideology has looked at tradition and rejected it. That’s fine but that makes their ideas, actions and statements fair game for robust criticism.
Unfortunately many - including some people I am (evidently former) friends with IRL from this board are incapable of coping with the fact that some people look at over the top wokeness and say, ‘nope’ without that making them misogynistic nazis.
@tcpoke It appears you liked my post before whilst I was editing it to enter a theory that I have been working on that I know may be controversial.
Not gonna be offended if you take back your "like" or anything.
I'd understand.
I agree. Hitler certainly used the Olympics to push his master race and Jesse Owens destroyed his plan for all the world to see, that was a divine moment if you ask me.
You had Tommie Smith and John Carlos with the raised fists at the 1968 Olympics.
I think what makes things a little different right now, is the politics in this country has never been this polarizing within our own country for most of us as adults in this country.
Sports typically when it has gone political even when not everyone in this country could not agree, felt it was intended to unite the whole country.
My opinions and feelings is exactly that of one individual and certainly many will not share my opinions and feelings, but what is going on right now feels far different with the intention of highlighting the politics every way possible and more technology exists now to do so.
The athletes can go political, that is their right. As such, thankfully we can still engage or disengage at any level we choose. I am not going to tell anyone that they are wrong to be totally happy with what is going in sports today, so telling me my opinion and feelings on the matter is bogus? Whatever.
I would contend that there have been plenty of other times in this country have been as or more polarizing within our own country. I would agree that most of us that are now adults have not experienced them. There will be those on this board that remember both the Civil Rights movement and the Vietnam War protests, but they would certainly not be in the majority.
So that is probably why this "feels different" to you.
Social media and 24 hour “news” cycle also increases the number of explores and experiences people see tremendously as well.
That’s what you’d like us to believe isn’t it, you commie-pinko bastard!Politics has always been in sports.
Always.
Don't entirely agree with your evaluations and assertion that this is not a two way encroachment or your characterization that entertainers and athletes exercising their speech rights and political views constitutes "force feeding'.
Finally, I have many friends from both extremes of the political and social justice spectrum that I do and will continue to consider as friends IRL and on this board. At the same time, there is nothing wrong with, and many people (including myself) do or would benefit from, disengaging from the endless strife and criticism of social media at times.
That would require objective reasoning. Can't happen.Maybe these athletes need to compare what athletes are making in Cuba, Russia, Venezuela, China and North Korea. It's a good base point to the direction they're heading towards.
It's self evident that the entertainment and media culture writ large has picked a side here, and that one of those directions of traffic has near monolithic popular cultural "systemic" support. The other is marginalized and mocked (see Messrs Kaepernick and Tebow). Therefore, I submit that one direction of that traffic is in reaction to the other, and that without woke culture political traffic and it's systemic support, traditional (ie. leave me alone) traffic would be parked in the garage, for the most part.
Having seen both, the biggest difference now is our education system. They are teaching that we were, and are, a bad country with a bad history. Total BS. Not an objective full measure view but simply an anti-American view. The Nam anti war protestors really didn't really hate our country as much as we hated the war. These protestors hate our country and Capitalism. They aren't really even taught our history but just some twisted and perverted view of it written by radical leftists.I would contend that there have been plenty of other times in this country have been as or more polarizing within our own country. I would agree that most of us that are now adults have not experienced them. There will be those on this board that remember both the Civil Rights movement and the Vietnam War protests, but they would certainly not be in the majority.
So that is probably why this "feels different" to you.
Having seen both, the biggest difference now is our education system. They are teaching that we were, and are, a bad country with a bad history. Total BS. Not an objective full measure view but simply an anti-American view. The Nam anti war protestors really didn't really hate our country as much as we hated the war. These protestors hate our country and Capitalism. They aren't really even taught our history but just some twisted and perverted view of it written by radical leftists.
Only a poor and myopic education could have you arrive at that conclusion. The facts are incontrovertible, Capitalism had lifted more people out of poverty and by a large amount than any other ideology. It simply ain't a close call. Hence the deep and dangerous division. I'm not optimistic that we haven't past the point of no return anymore.
They're not just discussing it off the field. They are suiting up, taking the field and then literally shooting all us fans the bird. And for what, a movement based upon an outright and proven lie? Please.So because these young athletes want their individual voices to be heard off the field.. we as fans can't discuss the games they play for our entertainment without discussing our own political views versus their outlook.
That's my main question.
Maybe I'm biased as I've been knee deep in politics since I was 5 years old, but I can separate a person's politics from their actions and be able to discuss topics without everything resorting to libs vs conservatives or Democrat vs Republican. I'm just hoping that one day this board will get back to being able to cuss and discuss practice reports or dismissed players without devolving into the mess.
The "off the field" BS is not off the field in the NFL, NBA, MLS, WNBA, and MLB. In addition, Chubba and Amen's "off the field" voices have affected the team, the school, the alumni, and the program. And let's be straight. These guys aren't playing the game for our entertainment. They are playing to get a free education or to use it as a platform to get to the Pro's.So because these young athletes want their individual voices to be heard off the field.. we as fans can't discuss the games they play for our entertainment without discussing our own political views versus their outlook.
If you share their views then you'd ignore it or wouldn't see it or, more likely, not be offended by it. Likely, you'd agree with it. And I never said Capitalism was without flaws. What is? But I'm not a fan of a "half pregnant" Capitalism.My kids definitely didn’t attend the educational system you are describing.
Nor do the protestors I know and am friends with hold the views that you have mind read somehow.
IMO, unfettered capitalism has its own flaws and, just like any other system or ideology, is not above or beyond criticism. I tend to prefer a good mix of fairly regulated capitalism and services provided by society to all of its citizens.
If you share their views then you'd ignore it or wouldn't see it or, more likely, not be offended by it. Likely, you'd agree with it. And I never said Capitalism was without flaws. What is? But I'm not a fan of a "half pregnant" Capitalism.
For those that complain about others political views (especially those on the other side of the spectrum of yours-whichever way) infringing on your rights to enjoy sports...
Why do you bring politics into every thread especially now that we have some sort of sports news to discuss daily? And will we ever get back to just talking OSU sports and some sports in general on here.
I'll take my answer off the air....
But I'm not a fan of a "half pregnant" Capitalism.
So not a big fan of the interstate highway system...
Or police departments....
Or fire departments....
Or public sewage and water....
Or the Hoover Dam....
Or rural access to electricity....
Or National Parks....
Okay, I guess.
Actually, this particular thread started a new discussion relating to politics. Had this thread not been started, we wouldn’t have had this discussion and we just might have been thinking of or discussing something else. If you don’t want politics in the discussions, don’t start a thread relating to politics.
In theory some of those could have been for profit services. Look at toll roads as an example.
I was thinking the other day about a new start up company. Let’s say a city does away with their Police department. What if you created a private company and for X dollars a month they would come to your house if someone broke in, if the wife was at home getting raped, or a domestic dispute, etc...
I can guarantee someone would fill that role. If an ex husband or boyfriend came to a women’s house at 3AM and is trying to break in and do her harm, is a social worker really going to climb out of bed and arrive in time to talk to them and be effective? Would they even want to put themselves in a potentially violent situation unarmed?
Protection could become a service only for those that can afford it if some of these cities follow thru and do away with an armed Police who patrol and look for criminal activity. Maybe that is ok, only those that value it, pay for it. Might get better protection.
Well, maybe we're just tired of it. Technology today has been a bigger factor than years and years ago. I think it being hammered constantly at every turn in a person's day has made them hoping they could sit down on a weekend and escape it, but no.John Carlos and Tommie Smith would disagree.
Muhammad Ali would disagree.
Jesse Owens would disagree.
Hell, the ancient Olympians would disagree.
The Israeli National Olympic team in Munich would disagree.
I disagree, and I think history backs me up....but honestly....whatever...it's not worth arguing over on a message board.
Sports have always been a reflection of the society and the world we live in, and the society and the world we live in has always been political.
Or what if the abusive husband or live-in boyfriend who pays the bills to the private security company is doing the raping and beating?
Most of those on my list could be privatized for those who aren’t fans of “half-pregnant capitalism”.
I think think we would be worse off as a nation if they were.
I’m not a defund/abolish police person. Hell, my wife is a cop. I worked for a law enforcement agency for 20 years and am now a prosecutor. At the same time, I believe we should be more fully funding public mental health and social services. It would take a big load of things that the police are responsible for now that they really are particularly trained or equipped for. Let them fight real crime. I personally would like to see social workers and mental health workers embedded in police departments working hand-in-hand with law enforcement in a whole host of situations.
Having seen both, the biggest difference now is our education system. They are teaching that we were, and are, a bad country with a bad history. Total BS. Not an objective full measure view but simply an anti-American view. The Nam anti war protestors really didn't really hate our country as much as we hated the war. These protestors hate our country and Capitalism. They aren't really even taught our history but just some twisted and perverted view of it written by radical leftists.
Only a poor and myopic education could have you arrive at that conclusion. The facts are incontrovertible, Capitalism had lifted more people out of poverty and by a large amount than any other ideology. It simply ain't a close call. Hence the deep and dangerous division. I'm not optimistic that we haven't past the point of no return anymore.
Dude is going to call the security company while he attacks someone on a property that is not even his own? I don’t think so. I am thinking home protection here if some get their way and we have social workers doing the Policing and are unarmed. I know 2 people that want exactly that, one is my niece. Some are pushing for that. Hard to believe but they exist and certainly I used an extreme example, but a Portland or Seattle does away with their armed Police force and basically ignore hard core criminal activity like they have in some instances? Would you not agree that the private for profit sector would fill that void? A huge demand would exist, even if it was only 30% of a large city population that would value and pay for such a service.
I also have no problem with taxes being used for public benefit, but we have progressed so much as capitalistic society that in many areas the private sector would fill the roles that government decides to not provide due to funding or voting. It would not be good for society IMO if we had a pay as you go protection.
Well, maybe we're just tired of it. Technology today has been a bigger factor than years and years ago. I think it being hammered constantly at every turn in a person's day has made them hoping they could sit down on a weekend and escape it, but no.
Finally, I have many friends from both extremes of the political and social justice spectrum that I do and will continue to consider as friends IRL and on this board. At the same time, there is nothing wrong with, and many people (including myself) do or would benefit from, disengaging from the endless strife and criticism of social media at times.
So not a big fan of the interstate highway system...
Or police departments....
Or fire departments....
Or public sewage and water....
Or the Hoover Dam....
Or rural access to electricity....
Or National Parks....
Okay, I guess.
Personally, I’ve never met anyone happy with more toll roads. If our entire road system or even just the interstate road system were all for profit, just about everything we consume would cost more and many of its citizens would have never had the opportunity to discover the greatness of America from sea-to-shining sea.
Or what if the abusive husband or live-in boyfriend who pays the bills to the private security company is doing the raping and beating?
Most of those on my list could be privatized for those who aren’t fans of “half-pregnant capitalism”.
I think think we would be worse off as a nation if they were.
I’m not a defund/abolish police person. Hell, my wife is a cop. I worked for a law enforcement agency for 20 years and am now a prosecutor. At the same time, I believe we should be more fully funding public mental health and social services. It would take a big load of things that the police are responsible for now that they really are particularly trained or equipped for. Let them fight real crime. I personally would like to see social workers and mental health workers embedded in police departments working hand-in-hand with law enforcement in a whole host of situations.
I’m deeply pissed at the politics entering athletics and disease and everything. I’m very passionate as most can tell on the subject and wish 100 percent politics would leave athletics- at least by a large portion its never going to be gone 100 percent.I'm going to take this a step further.
There are a few posters, here, who I used to really enjoy interacting with. However, our political differences have caused episodes of strife between us, that is sometimes difficult to forget. I'm sure there are plenty who no longer see me as "Been Jammin, that guy who moderates SC, really likes basketball, and is a vet". Now, "over the top liberal" has been added to their impression of me. I'm not going to call anyone out, but I don't see every poster in the same light as I used to. I don't like it at all, because I find myself wanting to disagree with, or pick apart, points made by certain posters simply because I know that we are on opposite ends of the political spectrum.
To combat this, I have stopped posting on 24/7, and rarely even read posts over there anymore. I don't read the Covid 19 thread anymore. If we can keep politics out of other threads, I am all for it. I prefer to think of every poster as someone I am connected to by our mutual love for OSU, rather than someone I am separated from by differing political views.
Wouldn’t you say it’s been propped up by government bc certain private entities have payed (lobbied) for it to be that way? I think that’s the biggest issue, we have the largest corporations paying the government to do their biddings.That's not necessarily true. Without publicly subsidized highways and roads, there would be more incentive for innovation in transportation. The existing transportation paradigm has been propped up by government for decades and we've seen little innovation as a result. If the private sector can send a rocket to space for a fraction of the cost, why couldn't they figure out a way to move people and goods around for cheaper too?
Wouldn’t you say it’s been propped up by government bc certain private entities have payed (lobbied) for it to be that way? I think that’s the biggest issue, we have the largest corporations paying the government to do their biddings.
As for politics in sports. Yes it’s been around forever but not to this extent. I don’t think you’ve ever seen political stances plastered on the playing fields like this, I may be wrong though. I don’t think that necessarily a bad thing, but that’s just a point of view. It’s funny that people that are supporters of a true free market want to control things like this. If you don’t like this kind of politics in sports stop giving your money. Make no mistake, Nike, NBA, etc, have done their research and right now the market says these actions are beneficial to them. Or else they wouldn’t be doing them. That could change, though, if enough people decide they don’t want to hear it anymore.
Police departments? I thought those were inherently racist/evil?
The things you listed are a fraction of what the government spends money on and are mostly local. If we want to limit the government to the things you've listed, I can live with that.
To say cancel culture is not real to me is very disIngenuous (sp?). Liberal free speech killers - if you say anything they don’t agree with they will shout you down, get you fired, shame you, gang up on you in public or social media.
Im not sure you really believe that? I mean if the libs gonna do it - they sure don’t need to deny it - it’s a very organized Mean to their end.