Sure. But there are some differences that I probably need to save for when this gets moved to the 24/7 board.
Honest question...
- Thread starter bigjkt405
- Start date
Sure. But there are some differences that I probably need to save for when this gets moved to the 24/7 board.
We have not had any games played to discuss.
Just like you want the Board to go back to the old days many fans wants sports to go back to the old days.
We had 2 good players leave over initially mysterious reasons. This is an opinion and discussion Board.
I will be glad to help you put people on ignore, me included.
BTW - I like your original post and follow up questions and I will suggest we share more similar frustrations than dissimilar.
Don't save them for me.
I'm staying out of that cesspool at least until election night.
Then I will just be there for the tears...whomever is crying them.
Don't entirely agree with your evaluations and assertion that this is not a two way encroachment or your characterization that entertainers and athletes exercising their speech rights and political views constitutes "force feeding'.
Agree entirely and wholeheartedly that the ideas, actions and statements of ANYBODY engaging in the marketplace of ideas subject are fair game for robust criticism...and even outright rejection.
(As an aside to a discussion of the marketplace of ideas and all ideas and positions being subject and fair game for robust criticism and even out right rejection....and I'm aware that this may be controversial but here it goes:
"Cancel culture" isn't real. It's just a description of this robust criticism and rejection in the marketplace of ideas used by the people that feel they are losing that competition in the marketplace of ideas.
So, match...meet gasoline on that one, I'm sure.
)Finally, I have many friends from both extremes of the political and social justice spectrum that I do and will continue to consider as friends IRL and on this board. At the same time, there is nothing wrong with, and many people (including myself) do or would benefit from, disengaging from the endless strife and criticism of social media at times.
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@tcpoke It appears you liked my post before whilst I was editing it to enter a theory that I have been working on that I know may be controversial.
Not gonna be offended if you take back your "like" or anything.
I'd understand.
Not gonna be offended if you take back your "like" or anything.
I'd understand.
@tcpoke It appears you liked my post before whilst I was editing it to enter a theory that I have been working on that I know may be controversial.
Not gonna be offended if you take back your "like" or anything.
I'd understand.
Hahahahaha! Like shall stay as we appear to share very similar views in this particular arena.
I would contend that there have been plenty of other times in this country have been as or more polarizing within our own country. I would agree that most of us that are now adults have not experienced them. There will be those on this board that remember both the Civil Rights movement and the Vietnam War protests, but they would certainly not be in the majority.
So that is probably why this "feels different" to you.
Social media and 24 hour “news” cycle also increases the number of exposures and experiences people see tremendously as well.
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That’s what you’d like us to believe isn’t it, you commie-pinko bastard!
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Maybe these athletes need to compare what athletes are making in Cuba, Russia, Venezuela, China and North Korea. It's a good base point to the direction they're heading towards.
It's self evident that the entertainment and media culture writ large has picked a side here, and that one of those directions of traffic has near monolithic popular cultural "systemic" support. The other is marginalized and mocked (see Messrs Kaepernick and Tebow). Therefore, I submit that one direction of that traffic is in reaction to the other, and that without woke culture political traffic and it's systemic support, traditional (ie. leave me alone) traffic would be parked in the garage, for the most part.
Same and same.
Having seen both, the biggest difference now is our education system. They are teaching that we were, and are, a bad country with a bad history. Total BS. Not an objective full measure view but simply an anti-American view. The Nam anti war protestors really didn't really hate our country as much as we hated the war. These protestors hate our country and Capitalism. They aren't really even taught our history but just some twisted and perverted view of it written by radical leftists.
Only a poor and myopic education could have you arrive at that conclusion. The facts are incontrovertible, Capitalism had lifted more people out of poverty and by a large amount than any other ideology. It simply ain't a close call. Hence the deep and dangerous division. I'm not optimistic that we haven't past the point of no return anymore.
My kids definitely didn’t attend the educational system you are describing.
Nor do the protestors I know and am friends with hold the views that you have mind read somehow.
IMO, unfettered capitalism has its own flaws and, just like any other system or ideology, is not above or beyond criticism. I tend to prefer a good mix of fairly regulated capitalism and services provided by society to all of its citizens.
They're not just discussing it off the field. They are suiting up, taking the field and then literally shooting all us fans the bird. And for what, a movement based upon an outright and proven lie? Please.
The "off the field" BS is not off the field in the NFL, NBA, MLS, WNBA, and MLB. In addition, Chubba and Amen's "off the field" voices have affected the team, the school, the alumni, and the program. And let's be straight. These guys aren't playing the game for our entertainment. They are playing to get a free education or to use it as a platform to get to the Pro's.
If you share their views then you'd ignore it or wouldn't see it or, more likely, not be offended by it. Likely, you'd agree with it. And I never said Capitalism was without flaws. What is? But I'm not a fan of a "half pregnant" Capitalism.
What if I don’t share their views as you have mind read them to be?
America has a complicated and contradictory history, but...
You’ve got it all figured out, don’t you?
Anybody that disagrees with you hates America.
Actually, this particular thread started a new discussion relating to politics. Had this thread not been started, we wouldn’t have had this discussion and we just might have been thinking of or discussing something else. If you don’t want politics in the discussions, don’t start a thread relating to politics.
So not a big fan of the interstate highway system...
Or police departments....
Or fire departments....
Or public sewage and water....
Or the Hoover Dam....
Or rural access to electricity....
Or National Parks....
Okay, I guess.
In theory some of those could have been for profit services. Look at toll roads as an example.
I was thinking the other day about a new start up company. Let’s say a city does away with their Police department. What if you created a private company and for X dollars a month they would come to your house if someone broke in, if the wife was at home getting raped, or a domestic dispute, etc...
I can guarantee someone would fill that role. If an ex husband or boyfriend came to a women’s house at 3AM and is trying to break in and do her harm, is a social worker really going to climb out of bed and arrive in time to talk to them and be effective? Would they even want to put themselves in a potentially violent situation unarmed?
Protection could become a service only for those that can afford it if some of these cities follow thru and do away with an armed Police who patrol and look for criminal activity. Maybe that is ok, only those that value it, pay for it. Might get more timely and better protection.
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Thank you for your reply. Not sure if it's tongue in cheek, but will give you the benefit of the doubt that it is...
Personally, I’ve never met anyone happy with more toll roads. If our entire road system or even just the interstate road system were all for profit, just about everything we consume would cost more and many of its citizens would have never had the opportunity to discover the greatness of America from sea-to-shining sea.
Or what if the abusive husband or live-in boyfriend who pays the bills to the private security company is doing the raping and beating?
Most of those on my list could be privatized for those who aren’t fans of “half-pregnant capitalism”.
I think think we would be worse off as a nation if they were.
I’m not a defund/abolish police person. Hell, my wife is a cop. I worked for a law enforcement agency for 20 years and am now a prosecutor. At the same time, I believe we should be more fully funding public mental health and social services. It would take a big load of things that the police are responsible for now that they really are particularly trained or equipped for. Let them fight real crime. I personally would like to see social workers and mental health workers embedded in police departments working hand-in-hand with law enforcement in a whole host of situations.
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Well, maybe we're just tired of it. Technology today has been a bigger factor than years and years ago. I think it being hammered constantly at every turn in a person's day has made them hoping they could sit down on a weekend and escape it, but no.
Dude is going to call the security company while he attacks someone on a property that is not even his own? I don’t think so. I am thinking home protection here if some get their way and we have social workers doing the Policing and are unarmed. I know 2 people that want exactly that, one is my niece. Some are pushing for that. Hard to believe but they exist and certainly I used an extreme example, but a Portland or Seattle does away with their armed Police force and basically ignore hard core criminal activity like they have in some instances? Would you not agree that the private for profit sector would fill that void? A huge demand would exist, even if it was only 30% of a large city population that would value and pay for such a service.
I have no problem with more mental health care or workers. I agree with most of what you said.
I also have no problem with taxes being used for public benefit, but we have progressed so much as capitalistic society that in many areas the private sector would fill the roles that government decides to not provide due to funding or voting. It would not be good for society IMO if we had a pay as you go protection.
Appreciate your wife’s service, being an officer right now is tough duty and I hope she works in a community that supports the Police.
They aren’t teaching “this country is bad” I can guarantee you! Not widely or systematically. Not in any school system I worked in for 38 years! Proud displays of patriotism are everywhere and veterans assemblies are held yearly in every school within districts to honor those who served and those who died to protect our freedom! But that doesn’t keep students and their parents from seeing through the media and social media that our nation still has quite a way to go to ensure freedom for all people regardless of race, sex, or religion. Some live it through what happens to them! No one who hasn’t experienced discrimination can understand what that is like for those that have imo. To say otherwise is simply not reality.
What you are seeing is the spotlight being shown by media and social media of discrimination that still exists in this country. That has NOTHING to do with the school systems of this country. School systems don’t teach discrimination or racism.
That publicity including video of a white policeman killing an African American brought the whole issue of racial injustice to a boil as it should. People may loathe the “woke” nature of people but all those folks are speaking out about are the failings of our country in stopping discrimination, sexism, and hypocrisy for large numbers of Americans today.
If we are the greatest nation on Earth as we claim and believe, those issues shouldn’t keep occurring and shouldn’t happen to so many segments of our society this many years after this nation began.
It appears to me that you are conflating two issues here:
1. Defunding police and the capitalistic private response of the well to do when that happens, and
2. Whether or not privatization of law enforcement in general would be a good idea.
I’m speaking only to the second. If all people had to pay for private law enforcement, law enforcement would be beholden to those who pay the bills. If private police were all we had during a domestic abuse situation where the one spouse pays the bill, the police are either not going to take a call from the other spouse or are going to come and end up backing the abuse.
The well to do can hire private on call armed security right now. Many well-to-do gated communities already have such services. That isn’t the same thing as privatizing police services.
Then it appears we agree.
Which is nice.
You’re perfectly free to be tired of it.
You’re perfectly free to boycott any sport or form of entertainment you like because too many of the participants are political for you.
I’m won’t judge you for those decisions, whether I agree or not.
I do agree that technology, particularly social media, is a huge factor in all of this. Lots of people...too many people IMO...say and do things behind a keyboard that they probably wouldn’t in a face to face encounter. Social media has been both a benefit and a bane to society. I routinely try to take breaks from the online madness...with varying degrees of success.
We all need more talking with each other rather than at/to each other.
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I'm going to take this a step further.
There are a few posters, here, who I used to really enjoy interacting with. However, our political differences have caused episodes of strife between us, that is sometimes difficult to forget. I'm sure there are plenty who no longer see me as "Been Jammin, that guy who moderates SC, really likes basketball, and is a vet". Now, "over the top liberal" has been added to their impression of me. I'm not going to call anyone out, but I don't see every poster in the same light as I used to. I don't like it at all, because I find myself wanting to disagree with, or pick apart, points made by certain posters simply because I know that we are on opposite ends of the political spectrum.
To combat this, I have stopped posting on 24/7, and rarely even read posts over there anymore. I don't read the Covid 19 thread anymore. If we can keep politics out of other threads, I am all for it. I prefer to think of every poster as someone I am connected to by our mutual love for OSU, rather than someone I am separated from by differing political views.
Police departments? I thought those were inherently racist/evil?
The things you listed are a fraction of what the government spends money on and are mostly local. If we want to limit the government to the things you've listed, I can live with that.
That's not necessarily true. Without publicly subsidized highways and roads, there would be more incentive for innovation in transportation. The existing transportation paradigm has been propped up by government for decades and we've seen little innovation as a result. If the private sector can send a rocket to space for a fraction of the cost, why couldn't they figure out a way to move people and goods around for cheaper too?
To say cancel culture is not real to me is very disIngenuous (sp?). Liberal free speech killers - if you say anything they don’t agree with they will shout you down, get you fired, shame you, gang up on you in public or social media.
Im not sure you really believe that? I mean if the libs gonna do it - they sure don’t need to deny it - it’s a very organized Mean to their end.
Im not sure you really believe that? I mean if the libs gonna do it - they sure don’t need to deny it - it’s a very organized Mean to their end.
I’m deeply pissed at the politics entering athletics and disease and everything. I’m very passionate as most can tell on the subject and wish 100 percent politics would leave athletics- at least by a large portion its never going to be gone 100 percent.
Good correlation is I still have ou friends on My Facebook but the “blowhard” fans I’ve deleted- I like to be able to get on there without getting my BP worked up!
Wouldn’t you say it’s been propped up by government bc certain private entities have payed (lobbied) for it to be that way? I think that’s the biggest issue, we have the largest corporations paying the government to do their biddings.
As for politics in sports. Yes it’s been around forever but not to this extent. I don’t think you’ve ever seen political stances plastered on the playing fields like this, I may be wrong though. I don’t think that necessarily a bad thing, but that’s just a point of view. It’s funny that people that are supporters of a true free market want to control things like this. If you don’t like this kind of politics in sports stop giving your money. Make no mistake, Nike, NBA, etc, have done their research and right now the market says these actions are beneficial to them. Or else they wouldn’t be doing them. That could change, though, if enough people decide they don’t want to hear it anymore.
If the government had limited power, and couldn't redistribute wealth, dish out favors or have their hands all over every industry, there would be no point in lobbying.
Who said they want to control it? I just hear people saying they don't like it and don't think its a unifying step for society. I know plenty of people who aren't watching the NBA right now because of all the political stances being pushed.. Nobody is saying it should be illegal or they don't have the right to do it.
I don't know why you are throwing out that first comment. I'm trying to have a civil conversation about a good mix of public and private enterprise. I didn't and have never said anything of the sort, and I don't really understand why you're trying to turn what has been a good, civil discussion into the same old name-calling and binary BS that normally occurs around here.
With regards to the list I provided....local law enforcement routinely receives federal subsidies and grants, as do fire departments, and do local public works systems, and then the rest on that list are specifically federal initiatives.
Even if you are cool with just that list, I think that 77cowboy would characterize you as a "half-pregnant Capitalist" like he did me. Reasonable minds can certainly disagree on what the appropriate and best balance between fairly regulated private industry and government provided social services for all citizens might be.
Your first sentence establishes the truth of exactly what I said. The competition within the marketplace of ideas being defined as "cancel culture" by the groups presently losing that competition. Those "liberal free speech killers" are using their free speech rights to express their disagreement and distaste for speech as well....just in a way that you don't care for.
Remember the Dixie Chicks? Were they a victim of cancel culture by the right? Because what your first sentence describes is exactly what happened to them by the right.
The more people define what "cancel culture" is to them, the more I become convinced that I am absolutely on the right track with thinking that.
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