Epstein update thread.
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Basic facts about Epstein's suicide elude investigators 5 days later
By Evan Perez and Mark Morales, CNN
Posted at 0206 GMT (1006 HKT) August 16, 201
(CNN) — Five days after Jeffrey Epstein's suicide, federal Bureau of Prisons officials are struggling to establish even rudimentary facts of what happened over several key hours inside a prison rife with greater problems than previously known.
Many questions remain, among them:
Even top officials in the department have been frustrated by their inability to get some answers from the prison, in part because initial answers turned out to be inaccurate in some cases.
In one instance over the weekend, officials believed the former Epstein cellmate had been released on bail. But it turns out he had been moved to another facility, one person briefed on the matter said. One of the first tasks for FBI agents this week was interviewing that former cellmate, who could provide information on Epstein's behavior in the days before his suicide.
The Epstein debacle is arguably the biggest crisis so far for Attorney General William Barr and Deputy Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen, who have spent days overseeing the department's response. Next week the department faces a deadline from members of Congress, who have been demanding answers.
In a speech Monday, Barr described the Epstein failures in personal terms, saying he was "appalled" and "angry" at the "failure to adequately secure this prisoner."
He said the Epstein case was important to him -- for the first time noting that he had played a role in the decision to pursue a new federal case after federal prosecutors in another era had given Epstein a controversial plea deal.
The FBI probe is complicated by the fact that key people involved aren't cooperating, people briefed on the matter say.
Eric Young, national president of the American Federation of Government Employees, which represents Bureau of Prisons employees, said employees should be given immunity from criminal prosecution.
"Our employee code of conduct policy requires all employees to cooperate during all official investigations, but that's contingent on whether (the FBI and the Justice Department inspector general) provide use immunity," Young said. "If (the employees) did something, whatever it is, even if it's illegal, that use immunity protects them, provided that they don't knowingly or don't willfully provide false statements."
He added: "Very few employees cooperate with a criminal investigation. If they make a statement that's contrary to evidence that's gathered they could be charged with a crime."
Young said the union doesn't control what the employees decide to do.
"The only time we get involved is when the employee asks for a representative," he said. "That employee is free to talk to whomever they want. They are free to do so. We do teach them to get the use immunity."
That means that even unlikely theories will require the time of FBI agents, who have to cross them off the list.
It also means, some officials fear, that when the FBI's findings are complete, there may still be lingering public doubts about what happened in a case that already has been the subject of outlandish conspiracy theories. It doesn't help that President Donald Trump helped spread some of those conspiracies.
A Bureau of Prisons internal review this week includes a suicide reconstruction that officials say will look at everything from the first alleged suicide attempt last month to the decision to return Epstein to the Manhattan Correctional Center's special housing unit, where he died.
After the first incident, Bureau of Prisons officials determined that Epstein had tried to fake a suicide and they issued an infraction against him, which serves to put the event on his internal prison record, a person briefed on the matter said.
By Evan Perez and Mark Morales, CNN
Posted at 0206 GMT (1006 HKT) August 16, 201
(CNN) — Five days after Jeffrey Epstein's suicide, federal Bureau of Prisons officials are struggling to establish even rudimentary facts of what happened over several key hours inside a prison rife with greater problems than previously known.
Many questions remain, among them:
- What does surveillance video show, which cameras were operational and do the logs of inmate checks match the video that exists?
- Why was Epstein's cellmate moved out on Friday, the day before Epstein died?
- What were the two guards who were supposed to monitor Epstein doing during the hours before he was found? Were they napping or did they simply fail to make the required checks every 30 minutes?
Even top officials in the department have been frustrated by their inability to get some answers from the prison, in part because initial answers turned out to be inaccurate in some cases.
In one instance over the weekend, officials believed the former Epstein cellmate had been released on bail. But it turns out he had been moved to another facility, one person briefed on the matter said. One of the first tasks for FBI agents this week was interviewing that former cellmate, who could provide information on Epstein's behavior in the days before his suicide.
The Epstein debacle is arguably the biggest crisis so far for Attorney General William Barr and Deputy Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen, who have spent days overseeing the department's response. Next week the department faces a deadline from members of Congress, who have been demanding answers.
In a speech Monday, Barr described the Epstein failures in personal terms, saying he was "appalled" and "angry" at the "failure to adequately secure this prisoner."
He said the Epstein case was important to him -- for the first time noting that he had played a role in the decision to pursue a new federal case after federal prosecutors in another era had given Epstein a controversial plea deal.
The FBI probe is complicated by the fact that key people involved aren't cooperating, people briefed on the matter say.
Eric Young, national president of the American Federation of Government Employees, which represents Bureau of Prisons employees, said employees should be given immunity from criminal prosecution.
"Our employee code of conduct policy requires all employees to cooperate during all official investigations, but that's contingent on whether (the FBI and the Justice Department inspector general) provide use immunity," Young said. "If (the employees) did something, whatever it is, even if it's illegal, that use immunity protects them, provided that they don't knowingly or don't willfully provide false statements."
He added: "Very few employees cooperate with a criminal investigation. If they make a statement that's contrary to evidence that's gathered they could be charged with a crime."
Young said the union doesn't control what the employees decide to do.
"The only time we get involved is when the employee asks for a representative," he said. "That employee is free to talk to whomever they want. They are free to do so. We do teach them to get the use immunity."
That means that even unlikely theories will require the time of FBI agents, who have to cross them off the list.
It also means, some officials fear, that when the FBI's findings are complete, there may still be lingering public doubts about what happened in a case that already has been the subject of outlandish conspiracy theories. It doesn't help that President Donald Trump helped spread some of those conspiracies.
A Bureau of Prisons internal review this week includes a suicide reconstruction that officials say will look at everything from the first alleged suicide attempt last month to the decision to return Epstein to the Manhattan Correctional Center's special housing unit, where he died.
After the first incident, Bureau of Prisons officials determined that Epstein had tried to fake a suicide and they issued an infraction against him, which serves to put the event on his internal prison record, a person briefed on the matter said.
The answer to each one of those questions is, "It was just a coincidence."
Rumors of remains being found in the waters off the island. Small remains.
No idea if this has a source or if it’s internet bs.
No idea if this has a source or if it’s internet bs.
You weren’t supposed to. I told you up front it was a source less rumor that could be bs.
I was honestly confused thought you were answering my question with the story you might have found.
Having seen plenty of hangings of all varieties over the years, that's very plausible.
So, they are saying that he tied a sheet around his neck and to the top of the bunk bed, then basically jumped off the floor, tucked his knees and the sheet broke his hyoid and strangled him. Do I have that right?
Careful. Challenging the official narrative is how people start calling you a conspiracy theorist.
I didn't read the article yet, but there are several scenarios involving a sheet and a top bunk I can think of that could break the hyoid.
Boys we are being lied to by our government regarding an important event - for some shadowy purpose. It happens. A lot.
And what a perfect storm that led to him having that opportunity. Luckiest suicide vic ever
That broken bone isn't determinative of anything. I can't find the ME report online. Any mention of ligature marks, how he was found, by whom, when, etc? So broke a vertebrae too? Not asphyxiation? Come on people. ..
Maybe so. Maybe not. I'm just commenting on the reported injury.
Ties, belts, underwear elastic, trash bag ties, jeans, twine, sheets, ropes, extension cords, jumper cables, garden hose... I've seen a lot of hangings. Many would make you say hmmm.
So.... I just dived in and this ME's statement is pretty subjective. I can't even find a link to the transcript of her statement.
He has these broken neck bones around the adam's apple, but no mention of a severed spinal cord/broken neck. The classic hanging fracture is around the C2. so far the broken hyoid deal is from WaPo, and they say "multiple" neck bones, including the hyoid were broken. I'm the one that's willing to chalk this up to a suicide but you'd think there'd be a clear statement about whether the vertebrae is broken. Why would they mention miscellaneous bones in that statement but not whether THE bone was broken? If it's someone repeating snippets of conversations they heard it's such incomplete facts it's almost useless.
I can't get my head around why such sketchy information from the administration about this.
He has these broken neck bones around the adam's apple, but no mention of a severed spinal cord/broken neck. The classic hanging fracture is around the C2. so far the broken hyoid deal is from WaPo, and they say "multiple" neck bones, including the hyoid were broken. I'm the one that's willing to chalk this up to a suicide but you'd think there'd be a clear statement about whether the vertebrae is broken. Why would they mention miscellaneous bones in that statement but not whether THE bone was broken? If it's someone repeating snippets of conversations they heard it's such incomplete facts it's almost useless.
I can't get my head around why such sketchy information from the administration about this.
Did they move the body immediately upon finding him? They should not have and they should have pictures, might help to determine if he actually jumped from that high.
Of course his body could have been staged after he died.
This looks worse than the JFK puzzle, you actually had cameras and eye witnesses that day.
Just about everyone that worked in that prison should be fired, and it should go up to the top as far as it needs to go.
People that have never worked a day in their life in a prison could have managed Epstein better.
Shit like this makes me pissed and we look like a banana republic.
Of course his body could have been staged after he died.
This looks worse than the JFK puzzle, you actually had cameras and eye witnesses that day.
Just about everyone that worked in that prison should be fired, and it should go up to the top as far as it needs to go.
People that have never worked a day in their life in a prison could have managed Epstein better.
Shit like this makes me pissed and we look like a banana republic.
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In the meantime, Ghislaine Maxwell is seen kicking back at In & Out Burgers.
Is she not afraid that those who did her pal in have their sites set on her?
Is she not afraid that those who did her pal in have their sites set on her?
That's weird as Hell. You would think she would be keeping a low profile. Almost as if she knows she is safe.
She’s the daughter of a dead prominent Russian/Ukrainian/Israeli mobster Intelligence asset. I bet she’s well protected.
The important thing is that the whole world has seen the dark forces in action now. They heard those who predicted Epstein's death while in jail and they saw it happen. They saw each and every one of the "coincidences" fall into place necessary to make it happen. The world knows no one will be implicated in the hit job. They may not know who "it" is responsible but the world now knows there is an "it."
And now people ask what other horrific deeds have been committed down through the years by the same force to achieve its aims.
Assassinations?
Mass shootings?
It always gets away with whatever the crime is so we know it has a license to be bold.
At least that's something.
And now people ask what other horrific deeds have been committed down through the years by the same force to achieve its aims.
Assassinations?
Mass shootings?
It always gets away with whatever the crime is so we know it has a license to be bold.
At least that's something.
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