It’s a very slippery slope and would be outright banned if this were happening in a revenue sport that the NCAA focused on or really cared about.
Dean Heil, Anthony Collica Sign With OKRTC
- Thread starter thompsonja
- Start date
It’s a very slippery slope and would be outright banned if this were happening in a revenue sport that the NCAA focused on or really cared about.
Which would make sense, since those are the 2 on the team that will probably stay around as senior level athletes
Here's basically what Gadson said...
"the plan is when those guys come through, when they're done, you got Gomez, you got Miklus who just finished up, you got Carr, when they come through, when they're done, they'll have a place to live, they don't have to worry about where they're living, you don't have to worry about that cost, it will be put into your stipend"
Is that a promise to a specific athlete? No, but it's a specific plan about college athletes (including Carr who has yet to wrestle a varsity match). One Gadson felt comfortable saying publicly, so other top recruits know a job and an apartment will be waiting after they graduate -- if things go as expected.
And I'm not faulting Iowa State, this is the current state of things now. Is it really much different than an Ivy League school saying these are some of our alumni, here are some of the places they interned, here is where they went on to work after graduation.
Last edited:
John should just start selling the idea to recruits they could become T. Boone or Garth. Would rather be those guys instead of living in a free dorm.
I believe it violates NCAA rules. At some point the NCAA will enforce it and the schools that use these inducements will be hit with sanctions. It is much different than Cornell listing where some of their alumni ended up. Iowa State is saying you will end up with us and this is what you will be paid and where you will live.
First, I'm not happy about the current recruiting environment but I understand what it is.
Second, I think Gadson misspoke - he shouldn't have said the "the plan is" and then said actual names. Can't imagine Dresser is real happy about that.
But let's not be naive, things are implied all the time in a sales and/or recruiting conversation. To expand on my Ivy League comparison, I'm talking about implied benefits (jobs & networking contacts) after graduation. Hypothetically, let's say an Ivy school says to a recruit -- "John Doe wrestled here and he interned at ABC corp during that time. Now he's a Managing Director over there. By the way, current wrestlers X and Y are interning there right now and love it". How is that different than saying wrestler X is part of our RTC and his stipend includes a housing allowance? Neither is a guarantee, but both imply the recruit can reap those same benefits if things work out as expected.
And in neither case does the coaching staff actually have to say it. It's understood. As Aaron Brooks's dad said, today's recruits know which schools have the $ to support them as professionals after graduation.
There isn’t any question it is a clear violation of NCAA rules. The fact it is happening in college wrestling is why nothing has and may not happen (and I’m all for OSU doing the same thing).
If this were CFB or CBB this would have already been shut down or heavily regulated by the NCAA.
Here's Dresser talking about their Olympic House. He flat out says the goal is to have 10-12 guys living for free. Welcome to recruiting in today's wrestling world.
It just lows the stipend that we have to pay a senior level athlete to train in Ames. Once it is paid for, it is money that the CRTC does not have to come up with for an athlete to fine housing and pay rent. We are never going to be able to earn the money that Penn State, Iowa, and etc earn, so this helps bridge that gap.
Iowa State also has the option to lease 1 of the 4 units and pay fewer athletes (say 7-9 instead of 10-12) a competitive salary on top of the housing.
And even if the stipend is offset initially, I seriously doubt that is the long term plan. Dresser is clearly an able fundraiser. I think it's far more likely that he continues to work his contacts and the boosters to raise $ going forward. He'll tell them that in order to win a team title, they need to continue to beat out the Ohio States for recruits like Carr.
But the main discussion point - you responded to the slippery slope post - is the impact on college recruiting. Dresser says "hopefully those post grades are Cyclones" at the beginning of the interview. At the end he says "when we have more Cyclones graduate". Not very subtle. Every Cadet/Junior World Team member and Fargo finalist now knows what to expect beyond just a scholarship.
Dresser has said he would like them to be Cyclones. But I would guess that if Ringer or Taylor would want to come to Ames, he would welcome them into this 4 plex with open arms.
I am sure there is no contract with any college athlete for post college yet, but just like PSU or Ohio State, the wrestlers know that if they want a senior level career at PSU or Ohio State, there will be a stipend available for them.
Yes is can't hurt recruiting. Having an RTC is going to attract the wrestlers that have Olympic goals. Housing is expensive in most college towns. This seems like a great way to help. I guarantee Dresser has looked at the compliance side of this. And yes he will continue to raise money. The amount of interaction he has with fans and businesses is amazing. That guy is always on the go. We are in the process of organizing a CRTC event in Humboldt (Dresser's home town) this summer. It will be our 2nd one in 3 years in Humboldt. There is also about 4 more around the state every summer.
Last edited:
I guess my point is that if it is illegal it would be much better for us to stay out of any arrangement like this. We will not be able to support athletes like the Penn State, Iowa, Ohio State, programs but if they are dinged hard for doing this then we are back on an even playing field with them and our history and tradition along with our coaches will be able to recruit anyone we want. It may be being winked at by the NCAA now but who is to say it will be in the future.
Someone and I say it should be OK State needs to ask for clarification from the NCAA and try to force them to make a ruling. We do not need to "turn in" another program but just lay out the facts. If they say it is legal then let's jump in with both feet. At this point the NCAA is doing a disservice to all but a few of the elite programs by not making a ruling on this.
I agree with you. Dresser knows that to compete with PSU, Ohio State, and Iowa; that Iowa State needs a strong RTC. Made housing has been a struggle in Ames or it is super expensive or made he just came across a donor in the housing business willing to help, either way, under current rules it seems like a great idea.
Everyone acknowledges the housing perk is a good idea. If you look at the post I initially responded to, a Cowboy poster suggested it last year...7 months before Dresser got it going for Iowa State.
To me the questions are (1) is it legal/allowed? (along with the other financial inducements; I'm sure car leases with the option to buy are next). And if they are, should they be? I don't doubt Dresser got the ok from his Compliance team, otherwise he wouldn't say it publicly and so brazenly. But that doesn't mean the NCAA officially said it's allowed.
And I don't think anyone is being promised/guaranteed anything. It's understood. And planned - see Gadson's interview.
No doubt Dresser would accept Dieringer or Taylor, because they would make the college guys better. But he wouldn't field a team of them in place of home grown Cyclones. IMO boosters want Iowa State to succeed first and USA Wrestling to succeed second. They are donating to a specific school, not USA Wrestling. If Iowa State had 4 Olympic champs, none of them home grown, and the college team struggled, you would see that funding dry up.
Everything above applies to other schools also.
To me the questions are (1) is it legal/allowed? (along with the other financial inducements; I'm sure car leases with the option to buy are next). And if they are, should they be? I don't doubt Dresser got the ok from his Compliance team, otherwise he wouldn't say it publicly and so brazenly. But that doesn't mean the NCAA officially said it's allowed.
And I don't think anyone is being promised/guaranteed anything. It's understood. And planned - see Gadson's interview.
No doubt Dresser would accept Dieringer or Taylor, because they would make the college guys better. But he wouldn't field a team of them in place of home grown Cyclones. IMO boosters want Iowa State to succeed first and USA Wrestling to succeed second. They are donating to a specific school, not USA Wrestling. If Iowa State had 4 Olympic champs, none of them home grown, and the college team struggled, you would see that funding dry up.
Everything above applies to other schools also.
I agree with you on all accounts. I like what Dresser is doing on all account at Iowa State in a short period of time
Understood. But as a wrestling fan do you agree with it (the whole compensation thing)? Do you think UNI fans like it?
What about Lock Haven, do you think they would have liked to keep Marstellar around?
Aaron Brooks's dad said we (OSU) lost Kerkvliet to tOSU because we didn't have the $ to pay him as a pro after college. He didn't say it was because of the scholarship offer, the school, the program, the tradition, or the coaches. He also didn't say it was because they have Kyle Snyder & Tervel. Just that their RTC had more $.
I’m pretty sure the issue has been raised but the NCAA doesn’t really have the time or manpower (and probably doesn’t care enough) to really dig into it.
If they did these will become heavily regulated, scaled back or shut down all together. Saying that, the longer we try to stay away from this the further we will remove ourselves from competing for national championships.
The cost of a well funded RTC with sponsored senior level athletes isn’t a major cost in terms of college athletics expenses.
NCAA will also turn a blind eye the the big colleges. No way they will ever come down hard on Alabama, Ohio State, Michigan and other bigs in football. Kansas, Duke, North Carolina are immune from basketball & I think PSU, Ohio State & Iowa are safe in wrestling
Very different situations. If KU, Duke and UNC set up a sponsored minor league program that guaranteed money to graduates the NCAA would shut it down before it got going.
Wrestling benefits from being under the radar and not a needle mover for the NCAA in any metric.
Taken from the Iowa board...
So the ISU compliance director is on a nationwide committee that reviews how Universities can grow RTCs without violating NCAA rules? That's the same ISU whose coach and post grad athlete are openly promoting free housing for ISU wrestlers after they graduate?
You can't make this stuff up. I'm kinda amazed that anyone can still talk about RTCs and keep a straight face anymore.
https://www.thegazette.com/subject/...-center-causes-minor-ncaa-violations-20190614
So the ISU compliance director is on a nationwide committee that reviews how Universities can grow RTCs without violating NCAA rules? That's the same ISU whose coach and post grad athlete are openly promoting free housing for ISU wrestlers after they graduate?
You can't make this stuff up. I'm kinda amazed that anyone can still talk about RTCs and keep a straight face anymore.
https://www.thegazette.com/subject/...-center-causes-minor-ncaa-violations-20190614
