Big12 Tournament

[Inky29]

There are things that DT needs to learn as a coach but it's his first year so I imagine things will improve. The hardest thing for generational wrestlers turned coaches have to realize is that not everyone thinks like them naturally. Coach Smith went through that and changed some but eventually fell back into the old mindset over the last decade.

Dean should have won. It was a mental breakdown not to simply dance around for the final :45 seconds and dare the ref to hit him with 4 stalling calls. Unfortunately there have been other times where we've lost matches due to a seemingly lack of situational awareness. I think that's more of a Dean thing because he's lost twice in the final minutes the last two years in the conference finals when he had a lead. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. If anything last nights result should fill him with confidence and add a little chip on his shoulder. I'm disappointed for him, not in him.

Honestly to me the most frustrating thing about last night was just how dang late everything got over with. Freaking start at 6pm or maybe start on Friday night, finish up everything but the Finals on Saturday and have the finals start at 1pm. I know they do things the way they did for TV but dang that was late.

I'm dang happy we won the tournament; Championships aren't won in the finals (most of the time), they are won in the wrestlebacks and with bonus points. That's how we won this thing.

On to the NCAA's.

 

[Pennstate1985]

His body language was the same as any coach who sat through 5 of their guys losing tough matches. He was frustrated and disappointed for them.

Wrestling is one of those sports that’s hard for a coach. Once that whistle blows there isn’t much you can do. It’s not like they can call a timeout, run a play or alter strategy.

The ultimate goal was to get back to winning the Big 12 and that was accomplished. Only a few of the 10 really underachieved this weekend. Most exceeded expectations when you really look at it and overall wrestled well.

Great post. I bet DT was up all night thinking about what HE could do better next time to help his guys.

 

[osu2082]

I agree with you regarding his body language and basically said the same thing. As tough as it is, he has to be immune from that. Especially in real time.

They can absolutely run a strategy and have a plan for all scenarios. They can coach the wrestlers to know the score, time remaining, and where they stand on stalling calls. And remind them over and over. They are right there. They can have a code word to strategically stall and move around and avoid tying up. I mean come on. Dean should not have lost that match the way he did. He had it won.

We won the Big 12 Championship. That's all that really matters. I and I think a lot of us had higher expectations for our overall performance. I did not expect to be sweating it out going into the very last match.

I’m sure they did all that. Worked on strategies specifically against KOT and they drill several different scenarios.

Again what is tough in wrelsting is there are no timeouts, are no teammates and once the whistle blows, it’s all on the guy in the circle. How they wrestle, how they react and what they do. It’s the toughest part of coaching wrestling.

 

[Harleycowboy]

All I got is WOW to this comment.

I agree Hamiti was not the favorite but with O'toole's injuries it was an even match. However, with Dean up by 3 points with 25 or 30 seconds left he was a real favorite and it was very disappointing for him to give up his legs and lose the takedown and then just miss the escape which would have won the match. Hamiti did not wrestle his match and seemed to wrestle very conservative the whole match. Spratley was the big favorite at the end of the match he takes a great shot I'm thinking that all he has to do is grab the body but he misses, gets a leg and he is still in control but loses the leg and loses the match by giving up the takedown. Tagen should have broken away his 1st escape attempt in overtime but did not turn in with strength to escape like he did on the 2nd attempt. He still could win with 15 seconds of riding time but only rode for 11 seconds. Surber got in a scramble situation and got out scrambled by a non-scrambler. He made a bad decision in the scramble and lost. Now my memory of these moves is vague because I did not get replays but I thought we were going to win each of these matches at the end but lost every one of these matches. Any one of these losses would be understandable but all 4. Next day it is not the end of the world but I really want us to catch Penn. St and after last night we are a world away from catching them. 1985 predicted we would continue to grow from mid season and jump levels. After Saturday I thought maybe but yesterday it was clear we have regressed. We have better wrestlers coming in time will tell. Last night did tell us something we are not ready to win consistently big matches neither our wrestlers or coaches. Maybe I will feel different after Nationals or years in the future. I know I felt last night that this is not what I was hoping for, not even close.

 

[grumpy_okie]

Just for comparison against last year.

2024
Name	Place	Points (141.5)
Troy Spratley	2nd	15​
Daton Fix	1st	22.5​
Tagen Jamison	4th	14​
Jordan Williams	2nd	15​
Teague Travis	4th	12.5​
Izzak Olejnik	3rd	13.5​
Brayden Thompson	3rd	12.5​
Dustin Plott	2nd	20​
Luke Surber	6th	7.5​
Konner Doucet	5th	9​

2025
Name	Place	Points (153.5)	Point Diff
Troy Spratley	2nd	16​	1​
Reece Witcraft	DNP	0​	-22.5​
Tagen Jamison	2nd	17.5​	3.5​
Teague Travis	4th	13​	-2​
Caleb Fish	4th	13.5​	1​
Cameron Amine	5th	12.5​	-1​
Dean Hamiti	2nd	19.5​	7​
Dustin Plott	2nd	19​	-1​
Luke Surber	2nd	17.5​	10​
Wyatt Hendrickson	1st	25​	16​

 

[AtownPoke]

The reality is the current roster is full of a bunch of guys who aren’t what is needed to win national championships and we all know that.

We did get this group to win a conference title which was the first step and something that hadn’t been done in 4 years.

I'm not sure I fully agree with that. I think this group is loaded but has the misfortune of being loaded at weights that have generational/truly elite type guys ahead of them. If we have Dean, Plott and Wyatt at weights like 25, 33, 57 or 97 then this is a totally different conversation

 

[Pennstate1985]

I agree Hamiti was not the favorite but with O'toole's injuries it was an even match. However, with Dean up by 3 points with 25 or 30 seconds left he was a real favorite and it was very disappointing for him to give up his legs and lose the takedown and then just miss the escape which would have won the match. Hamiti did not wrestle his match and seemed to wrestle very conservative the whole match. Spratley was the big favorite at the end of the match he takes a great shot I'm thinking that all he has to do is grab the body but he misses, gets a leg and he is still in control but loses the leg and loses the match by giving up the takedown. Tagen should have broken away his 1st escape attempt in overtime but did not turn in with strength to escape like he did on the 2nd attempt. He still could win with 15 seconds of riding time but only rode for 11 seconds. Surber got in a scramble situation and got out scrambled by a non-scrambler. He made a bad decision in the scramble and lost. Now my memory of these moves is vague because I did not get replays but I thought we were going to win each of these matches at the end but lost every one of these matches. Any one of these losses would be understandable but all 4. Next day it is not the end of the world but I really want us to catch Penn. St and after last night we are a world away from catching them. 1985 predicted we would continue to grow from mid season and jump levels. After Saturday I thought maybe but yesterday it was clear we have regressed. We have better wrestlers coming in time will tell. Last night did tell us something we are not ready to win consistently big matches neither our wrestlers or coaches. Maybe I will feel different after Nationals or years in the future. I know I felt last night that this is not what I was hoping for, not even close.

Good post. I don't see regression as much as I saw the competition in the finals be the best the team had seen all season. So not sure OSU went backwards as much as the resistance got greater.

You can be disappointed in Troy, but Strickenberger is no slouch. It wasn't like Strickenberger came out of left field and won in a shocker. They are similarly ranked.

Same with Tagen. He lost in OT to a guy of similar quality.

Same with Surber. He lost to a guy of similar quality.

I don't consider the Hamiti and Plott losses as upsets in any way.

I am a big believer that losses are a better teacher than wins.

 

[Old Number Nine]

Fish is the best example of our last second fails. With no need! Fish up 2 very late in his semi-finals match = take stall calls! Give up a stall point. WIN. And move on.

I agree but I believe Fish already had one caution. He should have stalled is a$$ off until he lost one point.

 

[osu2082]

Great post. I bet DT was up all night thinking about what HE could do better next time to help his guys.

No question. He will be sick to his stomach for his guys. He will be constantly thinking how to improve them and work with them to remedy the mistakes made but even then there is only so much you can do.

 

[OAMC99]

I'm not saying mistakes weren't made, but a lot of times it's on the wrestler. SVN wrestled poorly in the semis. Didn't finish multiple shots where he normally does. Is that on SVN or Cael? Braeden Davis sometimes presses a position much too far even when told he is pressing the position too far. Is that on the coach or the wrestler?

Once a match starts, it's generally on the wrestler. The coach is responsible for getting the guys in the right frame of mind and scouting tendencies of the opponents.

Everything you're saying is correct but you're not getting my point or probably I'm not making it clear. Hamiti wrestled an incredible match against O'Toole. He was awesome and absolutely should have won. I need to look at the video again but I remember him being up 4-1 with less than a minute left. And no stalling warnings. (Correct me if I'm wrong)

The coaches have to tell him to stay away and not engage as much as possible. He can give up 3 stall calls and still win the match!!! Yes this is a wussy way to win but you win. To beat someone like O'Toole you have to use every advantage you have.

There is also the possibility that the coaches were yelling those instructions over and over, and Hamiti couldn't hear or process them in the moment, which definitely happens when you're that engaged with your opponent. Oh well.

 

[killmnl]

Enjoying the conversation after my post. Thanks all....IMO Taylor and the other coaches were having shock moments.

At the end of the day...this post



Guess what, this is what is important and we will get better under this coaching staff.

 

[osu2082]

I'm not sure I fully agree with that. I think this group is loaded but has the misfortune of being loaded at weights that have generational/truly elite type guys ahead of them. If we have Dean, Plott and Wyatt at weights like 25, 33, 57 or 97 then this is a totally different conversation

I more so meant most of these guys starting aren’t the types we will need to really compete against PSU and for a NC.

You need a roster of 5 to 6 finalist contenders to beat PSU. Of the starters returning, I don’t think any will fall into that category.

The good news is help is on the way.

 

[killmnl]

Thought I would share one more



Hey Mike Gundy....might want to take a lesson from OSU wrestling on what to say to a fanbase.

 

[Okie_Pat]

There has been a lot of hot takes from last night so ill try to not be redundant with what’s been said. First want to say how good I feel about the Big 12 conference moving forward. It was a very competitive tournament with a lot of upsets and great matches. The Big 12 conference is getting better and this tournament is getting a lot tougher. So to win it means you have a strong team going into nationals. I am also very encouraged by teams like SDSU and UNCO. Those two programs have really grown and are developing guys to wrestler at a high level.

Now, going 1-5 in the finals is disappointing and frustrating. No other way to feel about those numbers. But when you look at it match by match there are some positive takeaways to be had. First, Spratley wrestled more conservative than he should have but Strickenberger is dangerous, funky, long and HUGE for the weight. He probably had 3-4’’ over Spratley. I felt Troy rushed once he got on his leg in OT and the counter by Stickenberger was crazy. That loss hurt and you could see the frustration in Spratley when he was hitting his headgear after.

Jaminson was aggressive, but Happel holds position really well and its hard to get him to open up. This match could of gone either way, but regardless it was as close as close can be maybe a difference of 5 sec riding time. Its not worth breaking down everything little thing he could of done differently.

Hamiti wrestled a 2x national champ about as well as you can and had him beat at the end. Sure he could of ran around the mat and avoided KOT but that’s not how Dean wrestles and Its easier said than done to avoid action with KOT. Bottom line if DJ were to wrestle him again I think he wins. And I bet he learned a whole lot from that match.

Plott wrestled Keck the best he ever has, was in on his legs several times but Keck is a beast and I don’t see anyone beating him not even Starocci.

Surber didn’t create any action and just got out scramble. He is 2-1 vs that kid and should of won but I think the stage got to him and he just tighten up.

Hendrickson, not much you can say about him other than I wish we had a few more years of this kid. Not only is he a monster on the mat he is a great leader and remodel. I hope he isn’t hurt. Pistols firing has a interview with him post tournament I think you all should watch. Everything he says is awesome. I think he is going to be a great coach someday and am extremely excited that he is sticking around the program.

 

[1981grad]

As someone who didn't follow wrestling unless it was tournament time. With the hiring of David Taylor , I'll admit that I had no idea who he was, I have been following wresting a lot more.

I want to thank everyone for posting, so someone with very little knowledge could enjoy this season more.

 

[Pennstate1985]

Plott wrestled Keck the best he ever has, was in on his legs several times but Keck is a beast and I don’t see anyone beating him not even Starocci.

Starocci beat him in November. That said, Starocci is not a lock to win again. If I recall, it was 4-1 in OT

 

[chasepollard]

As someone who didn't follow wrestling unless it was tournament time. With the hiring of David Taylor , I'll admit that I had no idea who he was, I have been following wresting a lot more.

I want to thank everyone for posting, so someone with very little knowledge could enjoy this season more.

Be careful here!

This is the most gratifying sport with the best people there is and it is tons of fun. It is also the sport most likely to rip your heart out.

I don't know if I've gotten choked up more in wins or losses over the years?

 

[DEWrestlingFan]

Had a great first day. The second was rough, but the good thing for OK State is that it was the conference tourney, not Nationals. People look at Penn State, Iowa, and OK State as 1, 2, and 3 come nationals. Penn State did not have their best tourney. Iowa finished 3rd, behind Nebraska in theirs. OK State won the Big 12's, with a lot of 2nd places. Looking forward to seeing what adjustments they make for Nationals.

When are At-Large bids announced? Does Witcraft get in?

 

[vhsalum]

and yes. if any of you can start making demands - a 9pm EST start time for a wrestling tournament/round is RIDICULOUS.

Good lordt it was almost midnight watching Hendrickson.

 

[tom_v31]

I don’t see anyone beating him not even Starocci

pretty ballsy but if any one can knock off Starocci, it’s Keck.

 

[Pennstate1985]

I don't know if I've gotten choked up more in

I read this and this comes to mind immediately ...

You're just a big softie ...

 

[KILLEVIDENT]

Had a great first day. The second was rough, but the good thing for OK State is that it was the conference tourney, not Nationals. People look at Penn State, Iowa, and OK State as 1, 2, and 3 come nationals. Penn State did not have their best tourney. Iowa finished 3rd, behind Nebraska in theirs. OK State won the Big 12's, with a lot of 2nd places. Looking forward to seeing what adjustments they make for Nationals.

When are At-Large bids announced? Does Witcraft get in?

I believe at large announcements are tomorrow.

 

[chasepollard]

I read this and this comes to mind immediately ...

You're just a big softie ...

Yeah, maybe a tad? I'm not very big though...

 

[Pennstate1985]

I believe at large announcements are tomorrow.

and brackets out Wednesday

 

[tom_v31]

After a “down” performance, I try to be dust in the wind when it come to the message board. Don’t want to say something I’ll regret. We won. We had some great performances. Sprat didn’t get pinned (I saw visions of his last match with him dancing in my head). Honestly, we did underperform some, but had some great performances too. But the Fat Lady hasn’t sung yet. We still have Nationals. You can mark my words, when a good team underperforms, they will bounce back. I’ve seen it way too many times. I would rather have a down performance now than March 20th. If he hasn’t already said it, Pennstate1985 would agree that PSU usually doesn’t perform as well in conference championships.

 

[tom_v31]

As someone who didn't follow wrestling unless it was tournament time. With the hiring of David Taylor , I'll admit that I had no idea who he was, I have been following wresting a lot more.

I want to thank everyone for posting, so someone with very little knowledge could enjoy this season more.

 

[Pennstate1985]

After a “down” performance, I try to be dust in the wind when it come to the message board. Don’t want to say something I’ll regret. We won. We had some great performances. Sprat didn’t get pinned (I saw visions of his last match with him dancing in my head). Honestly, we did underperform some, but had some great performances too. But the Fat Lady hasn’t sung yet. We still have Nationals. You can mark my words, when a good team underperforms, they will bounce back. I’ve seen it way too many times. I would rather have a down performance now than March 20th. If he hasn’t already said it, Pennstate1985 would agree that PSU usually doesn’t perform as well in conference championships.

We've lost more conference championships than nationals. The reason is that we didn't have enough AA types to support the 3-4 finalists at conference. A more balanced team is required to win conferences because there is less competition for the points. At nationals, you can win a national team title with five champions only because it's harder for a team to beat you with a ton of AA types.

I know there are exceptions, but they prove the rule.

So winning Big 12s says that you have a pretty good team up and down the lineup, and that is true. At nationals though, that 4th placer at Big 12 may end up R12. That's the essence of recruiting Dee Lockett and Jax Forrest and others. There is less volatility at the top. I know most reading this know this, so this is for the posters not as versed.

 

[tom_v31]

After a “down” performance, I try to be dust in the wind when it come to the message board. Don’t want to say something I’ll regret. We won. We had some great performances. Sprat didn’t get pinned (I saw visions of his last match with him dancing in my head). Honestly, we did underperform some, but had some great performances too. But the Fat Lady hasn’t sung yet. We still have Nationals. You can mark my words, when a good team underperforms, they will bounce back. I’ve seen it way too many times. I would rather have a down performance now than March 20th. If he hasn’t already said it, Pennstate1985 would agree that PSU usually doesn’t perform as well in conference championships.

BTW, I wasn’t so positive last night. I’m such a bad fan that I had to keep turning off the TV and the turning it back on again or I would have had an aneurysm. But, then I calmed down, quicker than my usual 3 month hiatus, in my cabin, by myself, throwing darts at a picture of (insert name of offending wrestling opponent I hate for the moment). I realized that we weren’t upset too many times. We just didn’t over perform very many either. Also, I was pissed off more after the Iowa dual and most of the tourneys from the preceding decade(ish). Plus, we still won the tourney. If we would have lost, I would have gone into a catatonic state.

 

[Cowboy1989]

They wrestled really well. They also got the benefit of 3 forfeits in the consi’s Sunday morning.

Score would not of been as close without those.

Agreed. Plus OSU had 3 byes to their 1 bye in the first round - that takes away several points as well.

 

[dvpoke25]

 

[chasepollard]

Agreed. Plus OSU had 3 byes to their 1 bye in the first round - that takes away several points as well.

I don't like to complain about officials and other things outside of our control, but it just seemed like the conference was out to get us this weekend?

I don't think Troy or Tagen should've been the 4. I didn't like our bye situation, then you had the whole band of conference coaches trying to knock Tagen out of the tourney and then we were the benefactor of zero calls that I noticed.

So really, we won it against more odds than most.

 

[osudog]

Coaching At Oklahoma State is hard and it’s even harder trying to Catch PSU but I promise you we got the best damn young Coach In the country leading it and we will get there. David is the perfect Guy for OSU .

 

[OAMC99]

There are things that DT needs to learn as a coach but it's his first year so I imagine things will improve. The hardest thing for generational wrestlers turned coaches have to realize is that not everyone thinks like them naturally. Coach Smith went through that and changed some but eventually fell back into the old mindset over the last decade.

Dean should have won. It was a mental breakdown not to simply dance around for the final :45 seconds and dare the ref to hit him with 4 stalling calls. Unfortunately there have been other times where we've lost matches due to a seemingly lack of situational awareness. I think that's more of a Dean thing because he's lost twice in the final minutes the last two years in the conference finals when he had a lead. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. If anything last nights result should fill him with confidence and add a little chip on his shoulder. I'm disappointed for him, not in him.

Honestly to me the most frustrating thing about last night was just how dang late everything got over with. Freaking start at 6pm or maybe start on Friday night, finish up everything but the Finals on Saturday and have the finals start at 1pm. I know they do things the way they did for TV but dang that was late.

I'm dang happy we won the tournament; Championships aren't won in the finals (most of the time), they are won in the wrestlebacks and with bonus points. That's how we won this thing.

On to the NCAA's.

THIS!! Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Hamiti should have won an individual B12 title, clinched the team championship, and secured the #1 seed at nationals with a strategic 4 to 3 final score victory. There is no other explanation. Failure to do this ultimately falls on the head coach and his inability to communicate with his wrestler.

This is a common theme this year. I bet we could find 20+ matches where a match was either lost or bonus points given up or not secured by mental mistakes in the last 30 seconds.

Also it seems we give up an unsual amount of escapes in very short time. That may just be my perception but it appears that way.

 

[cachap5327]

As much as I dislike the Penn State ankle ride, there have been several times I wished our guys had used it. Too many times I have seen us give up an escape with less than 10 seconds left in a period. And more than a few times when we should have just grabbed an ankle and hung on for dear life.

 

[CowboyUp61]

Just some small facts resulting from the late night and being too excited to sleep.

UNI returns 69 points from 5 of their current starters.

OSU returns 46.5 from 3.

We have some catchup to play

 

[topc22blue]

Enjoying the conversation after my post. Thanks all....IMO Taylor and the other coaches were having shock moments.

At the end of the day...this post

View embedded media

Guess what, this is what is important and we will get better under this coaching staff.

Who are all the other adults in pic?

 

[chasepollard]

Just some small facts resulting from the late night and being too excited to sleep.

UNI returns 69 points from 5 of their current starters.

OSU returns 46.5 from 3.

We have some catchup to play

Not as much as you think. Two wrestler difference.

If you think that we don't find 2 guys to fill our lineup that place 4th, you are crazy. However, we have to find 7 that, two of which at least place 4th to get us even and then the other 5 have to be better.

 

[SlickWillie2018]

Where does Lockett finish at 165 next season? Idk who is back and who isn’t at the weight

 

[skylinepoke]

I was visiting with a buddy over lunch Saturday on how this conference tourney has improved over the years. It was pathetic the first couple of years but now, almost every team has 2-3 wrestlers competing in the top end. Think about this, uni, northern Colorado, and one of the Dakota schools have crowned a national Champion since we had Ferrari. I'm going off memory so I could be missing something. Good for those schools but that is unacceptable for OSU.

 

[oklahomaglory]

Too early, the squad can go through lot of changes (Both Ours and UNI) through graduation, recruiting and portal. Will be easier after 1 month.