Was overstated, but was a disappointment for him, the team, and fans when it looked like he had the match and had chance to win. But is what it is. Bounce back in ncaas.
Big12 Tournament
- Thread starter Chasingthirty-five
- Start date
There are things that DT needs to learn as a coach but it's his first year so I imagine things will improve. The hardest thing for generational wrestlers turned coaches have to realize is that not everyone thinks like them naturally. Coach Smith went through that and changed some but eventually fell back into the old mindset over the last decade.
Dean should have won. It was a mental breakdown not to simply dance around for the final :45 seconds and dare the ref to hit him with 4 stalling calls. Unfortunately there have been other times where we've lost matches due to a seemingly lack of situational awareness. I think that's more of a Dean thing because he's lost twice in the final minutes the last two years in the conference finals when he had a lead. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. If anything last nights result should fill him with confidence and add a little chip on his shoulder. I'm disappointed for him, not in him.
Honestly to me the most frustrating thing about last night was just how dang late everything got over with. Freaking start at 6pm or maybe start on Friday night, finish up everything but the Finals on Saturday and have the finals start at 1pm. I know they do things the way they did for TV but dang that was late.
I'm dang happy we won the tournament; Championships aren't won in the finals (most of the time), they are won in the wrestlebacks and with bonus points. That's how we won this thing.
On to the NCAA's.
Dean should have won. It was a mental breakdown not to simply dance around for the final :45 seconds and dare the ref to hit him with 4 stalling calls. Unfortunately there have been other times where we've lost matches due to a seemingly lack of situational awareness. I think that's more of a Dean thing because he's lost twice in the final minutes the last two years in the conference finals when he had a lead. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. If anything last nights result should fill him with confidence and add a little chip on his shoulder. I'm disappointed for him, not in him.
Honestly to me the most frustrating thing about last night was just how dang late everything got over with. Freaking start at 6pm or maybe start on Friday night, finish up everything but the Finals on Saturday and have the finals start at 1pm. I know they do things the way they did for TV but dang that was late.
I'm dang happy we won the tournament; Championships aren't won in the finals (most of the time), they are won in the wrestlebacks and with bonus points. That's how we won this thing.
On to the NCAA's.
Great post. I bet DT was up all night thinking about what HE could do better next time to help his guys.
I’m sure they did all that. Worked on strategies specifically against KOT and they drill several different scenarios.
Again what is tough in wrelsting is there are no timeouts, are no teammates and once the whistle blows, it’s all on the guy in the circle. How they wrestle, how they react and what they do. It’s the toughest part of coaching wrestling.
I agree Hamiti was not the favorite but with O'toole's injuries it was an even match. However, with Dean up by 3 points with 25 or 30 seconds left he was a real favorite and it was very disappointing for him to give up his legs and lose the takedown and then just miss the escape which would have won the match. Hamiti did not wrestle his match and seemed to wrestle very conservative the whole match. Spratley was the big favorite at the end of the match he takes a great shot I'm thinking that all he has to do is grab the body but he misses, gets a leg and he is still in control but loses the leg and loses the match by giving up the takedown. Tagen should have broken away his 1st escape attempt in overtime but did not turn in with strength to escape like he did on the 2nd attempt. He still could win with 15 seconds of riding time but only rode for 11 seconds. Surber got in a scramble situation and got out scrambled by a non-scrambler. He made a bad decision in the scramble and lost. Now my memory of these moves is vague because I did not get replays but I thought we were going to win each of these matches at the end but lost every one of these matches. Any one of these losses would be understandable but all 4. Next day it is not the end of the world but I really want us to catch Penn. St and after last night we are a world away from catching them. 1985 predicted we would continue to grow from mid season and jump levels. After Saturday I thought maybe but yesterday it was clear we have regressed. We have better wrestlers coming in time will tell. Last night did tell us something we are not ready to win consistently big matches neither our wrestlers or coaches. Maybe I will feel different after Nationals or years in the future. I know I felt last night that this is not what I was hoping for, not even close.
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Just for comparison against last year.
| 2024 | ||
| Name | Place | Points (141.5) |
| Troy Spratley | 2nd | 15 |
| Daton Fix | 1st | 22.5 |
| Tagen Jamison | 4th | 14 |
| Jordan Williams | 2nd | 15 |
| Teague Travis | 4th | 12.5 |
| Izzak Olejnik | 3rd | 13.5 |
| Brayden Thompson | 3rd | 12.5 |
| Dustin Plott | 2nd | 20 |
| Luke Surber | 6th | 7.5 |
| Konner Doucet | 5th | 9 |
| 2025 | |||
| Name | Place | Points (153.5) | Point Diff |
| Troy Spratley | 2nd | 16 | 1 |
| Reece Witcraft | DNP | 0 | -22.5 |
| Tagen Jamison | 2nd | 17.5 | 3.5 |
| Teague Travis | 4th | 13 | -2 |
| Caleb Fish | 4th | 13.5 | 1 |
| Cameron Amine | 5th | 12.5 | -1 |
| Dean Hamiti | 2nd | 19.5 | 7 |
| Dustin Plott | 2nd | 19 | -1 |
| Luke Surber | 2nd | 17.5 | 10 |
| Wyatt Hendrickson | 1st | 25 | 16 |
I'm not sure I fully agree with that. I think this group is loaded but has the misfortune of being loaded at weights that have generational/truly elite type guys ahead of them. If we have Dean, Plott and Wyatt at weights like 25, 33, 57 or 97 then this is a totally different conversation
Good post. I don't see regression as much as I saw the competition in the finals be the best the team had seen all season. So not sure OSU went backwards as much as the resistance got greater.
You can be disappointed in Troy, but Strickenberger is no slouch. It wasn't like Strickenberger came out of left field and won in a shocker. They are similarly ranked.
Same with Tagen. He lost in OT to a guy of similar quality.
Same with Surber. He lost to a guy of similar quality.
I don't consider the Hamiti and Plott losses as upsets in any way.
I am a big believer that losses are a better teacher than wins.
I agree but I believe Fish already had one caution. He should have stalled is a$$ off until he lost one point.
No question. He will be sick to his stomach for his guys. He will be constantly thinking how to improve them and work with them to remedy the mistakes made but even then there is only so much you can do.
Everything you're saying is correct but you're not getting my point or probably I'm not making it clear. Hamiti wrestled an incredible match against O'Toole. He was awesome and absolutely should have won. I need to look at the video again but I remember him being up 4-1 with less than a minute left. And no stalling warnings. (Correct me if I'm wrong)
The coaches have to tell him to stay away and not engage as much as possible. He can give up 3 stall calls and still win the match!!! Yes this is a wussy way to win but you win. To beat someone like O'Toole you have to use every advantage you have.
There is also the possibility that the coaches were yelling those instructions over and over, and Hamiti couldn't hear or process them in the moment, which definitely happens when you're that engaged with your opponent. Oh well.
Enjoying the conversation after my post. Thanks all....IMO Taylor and the other coaches were having shock moments.
At the end of the day...this post
Guess what, this is what is important and we will get better under this coaching staff.
At the end of the day...this post
Guess what, this is what is important and we will get better under this coaching staff.
I more so meant most of these guys starting aren’t the types we will need to really compete against PSU and for a NC.
You need a roster of 5 to 6 finalist contenders to beat PSU. Of the starters returning, I don’t think any will fall into that category.
The good news is help is on the way.
Thought I would share one more
Hey Mike Gundy....might want to take a lesson from OSU wrestling on what to say to a fanbase.
Hey Mike Gundy....might want to take a lesson from OSU wrestling on what to say to a fanbase.
There has been a lot of hot takes from last night so ill try to not be redundant with what’s been said. First want to say how good I feel about the Big 12 conference moving forward. It was a very competitive tournament with a lot of upsets and great matches. The Big 12 conference is getting better and this tournament is getting a lot tougher. So to win it means you have a strong team going into nationals. I am also very encouraged by teams like SDSU and UNCO. Those two programs have really grown and are developing guys to wrestler at a high level.
Now, going 1-5 in the finals is disappointing and frustrating. No other way to feel about those numbers. But when you look at it match by match there are some positive takeaways to be had. First, Spratley wrestled more conservative than he should have but Strickenberger is dangerous, funky, long and HUGE for the weight. He probably had 3-4’’ over Spratley. I felt Troy rushed once he got on his leg in OT and the counter by Stickenberger was crazy. That loss hurt and you could see the frustration in Spratley when he was hitting his headgear after.
Jaminson was aggressive, but Happel holds position really well and its hard to get him to open up. This match could of gone either way, but regardless it was as close as close can be maybe a difference of 5 sec riding time. Its not worth breaking down everything little thing he could of done differently.
Hamiti wrestled a 2x national champ about as well as you can and had him beat at the end. Sure he could of ran around the mat and avoided KOT but that’s not how Dean wrestles and Its easier said than done to avoid action with KOT. Bottom line if DJ were to wrestle him again I think he wins. And I bet he learned a whole lot from that match.
Plott wrestled Keck the best he ever has, was in on his legs several times but Keck is a beast and I don’t see anyone beating him not even Starocci.
Surber didn’t create any action and just got out scramble. He is 2-1 vs that kid and should of won but I think the stage got to him and he just tighten up.
Hendrickson, not much you can say about him other than I wish we had a few more years of this kid. Not only is he a monster on the mat he is a great leader and remodel. I hope he isn’t hurt. Pistols firing has a interview with him post tournament I think you all should watch. Everything he says is awesome. I think he is going to be a great coach someday and am extremely excited that he is sticking around the program.
Now, going 1-5 in the finals is disappointing and frustrating. No other way to feel about those numbers. But when you look at it match by match there are some positive takeaways to be had. First, Spratley wrestled more conservative than he should have but Strickenberger is dangerous, funky, long and HUGE for the weight. He probably had 3-4’’ over Spratley. I felt Troy rushed once he got on his leg in OT and the counter by Stickenberger was crazy. That loss hurt and you could see the frustration in Spratley when he was hitting his headgear after.
Jaminson was aggressive, but Happel holds position really well and its hard to get him to open up. This match could of gone either way, but regardless it was as close as close can be maybe a difference of 5 sec riding time. Its not worth breaking down everything little thing he could of done differently.
Hamiti wrestled a 2x national champ about as well as you can and had him beat at the end. Sure he could of ran around the mat and avoided KOT but that’s not how Dean wrestles and Its easier said than done to avoid action with KOT. Bottom line if DJ were to wrestle him again I think he wins. And I bet he learned a whole lot from that match.
Plott wrestled Keck the best he ever has, was in on his legs several times but Keck is a beast and I don’t see anyone beating him not even Starocci.
Surber didn’t create any action and just got out scramble. He is 2-1 vs that kid and should of won but I think the stage got to him and he just tighten up.
Hendrickson, not much you can say about him other than I wish we had a few more years of this kid. Not only is he a monster on the mat he is a great leader and remodel. I hope he isn’t hurt. Pistols firing has a interview with him post tournament I think you all should watch. Everything he says is awesome. I think he is going to be a great coach someday and am extremely excited that he is sticking around the program.
As someone who didn't follow wrestling unless it was tournament time. With the hiring of David Taylor , I'll admit that I had no idea who he was, I have been following wresting a lot more.
I want to thank everyone for posting, so someone with very little knowledge could enjoy this season more.
I want to thank everyone for posting, so someone with very little knowledge could enjoy this season more.
Starocci beat him in November. That said, Starocci is not a lock to win again. If I recall, it was 4-1 in OT
Be careful here!
This is the most gratifying sport with the best people there is and it is tons of fun. It is also the sport most likely to rip your heart out.
I don't know if I've gotten choked up more in wins or losses over the years?
Had a great first day. The second was rough, but the good thing for OK State is that it was the conference tourney, not Nationals. People look at Penn State, Iowa, and OK State as 1, 2, and 3 come nationals. Penn State did not have their best tourney. Iowa finished 3rd, behind Nebraska in theirs. OK State won the Big 12's, with a lot of 2nd places. Looking forward to seeing what adjustments they make for Nationals.
When are At-Large bids announced? Does Witcraft get in?
When are At-Large bids announced? Does Witcraft get in?
and yes. if any of you can start making demands - a 9pm EST start time for a wrestling tournament/round is RIDICULOUS.
Good lordt it was almost midnight watching Hendrickson.
Good lordt it was almost midnight watching Hendrickson.
Yeah, maybe a tad? I'm not very big though...I read this and this comes to mind immediately ...
You're just a big softie ...
After a “down” performance, I try to be dust in the wind when it come to the message board. Don’t want to say something I’ll regret. We won. We had some great performances. Sprat didn’t get pinned (I saw visions of his last match with him dancing in my head). Honestly, we did underperform some, but had some great performances too. But the Fat Lady hasn’t sung yet. We still have Nationals. You can mark my words, when a good team underperforms, they will bounce back. I’ve seen it way too many times. I would rather have a down performance now than March 20th. If he hasn’t already said it, Pennstate1985 would agree that PSU usually doesn’t perform as well in conference championships.
We've lost more conference championships than nationals. The reason is that we didn't have enough AA types to support the 3-4 finalists at conference. A more balanced team is required to win conferences because there is less competition for the points. At nationals, you can win a national team title with five champions only because it's harder for a team to beat you with a ton of AA types.
I know there are exceptions, but they prove the rule.
So winning Big 12s says that you have a pretty good team up and down the lineup, and that is true. At nationals though, that 4th placer at Big 12 may end up R12. That's the essence of recruiting Dee Lockett and Jax Forrest and others. There is less volatility at the top. I know most reading this know this, so this is for the posters not as versed.
BTW, I wasn’t so positive last night. I’m such a bad fan that I had to keep turning off the TV and the turning it back on again or I would have had an aneurysm. But, then I calmed down, quicker than my usual 3 month hiatus, in my cabin, by myself, throwing darts at a picture of (insert name of offending wrestling opponent I hate for the moment). I realized that we weren’t upset too many times. We just didn’t over perform very many either. Also, I was pissed off more after the Iowa dual and most of the tourneys from the preceding decade(ish). Plus, we still won the tourney. If we would have lost, I would have gone into a catatonic state.
Agreed. Plus OSU had 3 byes to their 1 bye in the first round - that takes away several points as well.
