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Arrest.... won’t be the last.

We absolutely do have mechanisms to deal with an illegitimate government and its officials.

The impeachment process.

And that process does not include individuals determining for themselves that the government is illegitimate and violating the clearly legitimate laws enacted in the past as a result of their opinion on the topic.
The Republican Party is complicit so that mechanism is broken, I stated that earlier. We don’t have a mechanism to redo or invalidate an election. I also stated that earlier. What do you do when those mechanisms are broken? I’ve asked this multiple times as have you repeated the basic gist of your last sentence. The answer is we don’t know yet. We are drawing ever closer to that ledge, if and when we jump is only a matter of time.
 
Yes to amazing, lol to terrifying.

Why didn't you include the part about her actual whistleblower case being something completely unrelated to what she was arrested for? What about the highly sensitive stuff she possessed regarding Iran and ISIS?

What if the entirety of the Russia Russia Russia narrative was created by the Obama administration? What if the only collusion that occurred was between the Obama DOJ and the Clinton campaign/DNC?
:confused:
 
@Pokebear,

There were 960K SAR reports filed in 2016. Do you believe all of them should be published for general consumption or are you satisfied if we only publish 112 that put your opposition party in a negative light?
 
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The Republican Party is complicit so that mechanism is broken, I stated that earlier. We don’t have a mechanism to redo or invalidate an election. I also stated that earlier. What do you do when those mechanisms are broken? I’ve asked this multiple times as have you repeated the basic gist of your last sentence. The answer is we don’t know yet. We are drawing ever closer to that ledge, if and when we jump is only a matter of time.

I told you what you do with an illegitimate adminstration.

You impeach its leader.

If there is insufficient evidence to impeach and convict or there is, but the electorate doesn’t care enough to put pressure on their representatives to do it or elect new representatives that will, the government isn’t an illegitimate one.

The fact that you don’t like that answer doesn’t mean the system is broken.
 
I told you what you do with an illegitimate adminstration.

You impeach it’s leader.

If there is insufficient evidence to impeach and convict or there is, but the electorate doesn’t care enough to put pressure on their representatives to do it or elect new representatives that will, the government isn’t an illegitimate one.

The fact that you don’t like that answer doesn’t mean the system is broken.
Me liking it or not has nothing to do with your assertions. I am correct in stating there is no constitutional mechanism for redoing a national election.

If a president is illegitimately installed then by default their opponent was cheated out of a free and fair election. We do not have a way to reset or redo a national presidential election. Yes we can impeach an illegitimate president but what do we do about their opponent and the race they cheated in? How do we rectify and guarantee the American people chose their president? If all were fair and everything worked as designed you could have the Speaker of the house step down and have the prior opponent voted in as speaker. Once that has happened then you could impeach the president and Vice President if the miracle of majority of the House votes to impeach and 2/3 of the senate convicts. That is a pipe dream, especially in this radicalized climate. We Independents and Libertarians are “Left Wing Libs” now.
 
Me liking it or not has nothing to do with your assertions. I am correct in stating there is no constitutional mechanism for redoing a national election.

If a president is illegitimately installed then by default their opponent was cheated out of a free and fair election. We do not have a way to reset or redo a national presidential election. Yes we can impeach an illegitimate president but what do we do about their opponent and the race they cheated in? How do we rectify and guarantee the American people chose their president? If all were fair and everything worked as designed you could have the Speaker of the house step down and have the prior opponent voted in as speaker. Once that has happened then you could impeach the president and Vice President if the miracle of majority of the House votes to impeach and 2/3 of the senate convicts. That is a pipe dream, especially in this radicalized climate. We Independents and Libertarians are “Left Wing Libs” now.

Because “redoing” a national election is not the process to deal with an illegitimate government that has been installed.

What do we do about their opponent?

Nothing.

Again just because you would prefer a different process to address an allegedly illegitimately elected government doesn’t mean the system is broken or there is no mechanism to address illegitimately elected government.
 
Because “redoing” a national election is not the process to deal with an illegitimate government that has been installed.

What do we do about their opponent?

Nothing.

Again just because you would prefer a different process to address an allegedly illegitimately elected government doesn’t mean the system is broken or there is no mechanism to address illegitimately elected government.
I disagree but that doesn’t matter. If a system has been put into place to protect a country from tyranny and demagoguery and no one that has been elected maybe even illegitimately so does anything to engage said system what do you call that? If not broken do you just accept it and call it Government? :p I do believe we should work toward shoring up the weakness in our system but that would take a whole lot of open and aggressor discussing among the adults in charge. That ain’t happening anytime soon. Minority rule is too powerful an aphrodisiac.
 
Me liking it or not has nothing to do with your assertions. I am correct in stating there is no constitutional mechanism for redoing a national election.

If a president is illegitimately installed then by default their opponent was cheated out of a free and fair election. We do not have a way to reset or redo a national presidential election. Yes we can impeach an illegitimate president but what do we do about their opponent and the race they cheated in? How do we rectify and guarantee the American people chose their president? If all were fair and everything worked as designed you could have the Speaker of the house step down and have the prior opponent voted in as speaker. Once that has happened then you could impeach the president and Vice President if the miracle of majority of the House votes to impeach and 2/3 of the senate convicts. That is a pipe dream, especially in this radicalized climate. We Independents and Libertarians are “Left Wing Libs” now.

Dude, you need to get back on your meds.
 
I disagree but that doesn’t matter. If a system has been put into place to protect a country from tyranny and demagoguery and no one that has been elected maybe even illegitimately so does anything to engage said system what do you call that?

I called that consent of the governed.

The governed determine whether the election was legitimate and if they determine it wasn’t, then they elect different representatives that will engage said system.
 
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I called that consent of the governed.

The governed determine whether the election was legitimate and if they determine it wasn’t, then they elect different representatives that will engage said system.
In a free and fair election I would agree. That’s the crux of the situation we are in. Was it and will it be again?
 
If a president is illegitimately installed then by default their opponent was cheated out of a free and fair election.
Illegitimately installed? Did the Russians give Trump extra electoral votes?

I get that lefties don't like the results of the election, but at some point you're going to have to place blame where it belongs. Clinton ran a shitty campaign and made costly errors. Reality might suck but it's still reality.

Any thoughts on the possibility that the entirety of Russia Russia Russia was cooked up by the Obama administration? Surely a guy with your skepticism of government doesn't just look the other way in regards to this possibility. There's an awful lot of smoke...
 
I like the idea of chosing my leader free of foreign interference. As of today there is a major question as to whether or not we were allowed to do just that in 2016. What do you do if the government you are working for has been installed by a foreign power and the only mechanism that could save the country from this intrusion has lain itself at the altar of the newly installed administration for political expediency and guilt of their own? How do you go to a boss installed by that administration and report on them? I would agree with you in every year of my life until 2016. I am more skeptical than ever of this government than any other in my life. I wish more on this board and in this country were and I’m not saying you aren’t.

Why was the election security so bad?
 
In a free and fair election I would agree. That’s the crux of the situation we are in. Was it and will it be again?

Probably gonna need to define what constitutes a free and fair election because that kind sounds like accepting the results as long as you end up winning....which I previously criticized Trump for saying.

Unless it’s proven that Russians or/or a big conspiracy of separate state election officials actually changed votes from Hill to DTJ in sufficient numbers to change a sufficient number of electoral votes to install Trump over Hill, the election was free and fair.

If Russia and/or Trump and/or others uses twitter bots, social media analytics, propoganda, whatever to dupe enough Americans to vote for Trump instead of Hill, that’s a free and fair election and a inherent risk of an uninformed or ill-informed electorate....you deserve the government you are duped into electing. Of course, if the electorate determines they feel angry enough about being duped, impeachment proceedings would be appropriate. “High crimes and misdemeanors” worthy of removal is pretty much whatever the electorate through it’s elected reps determine it is....doesn’t really require a violation of the criminal statutes to qualify as such.
 
Good question. Let’s start with Georgias Secretary of State Brian Kemp. Maybe he can help us understand what may have happened a little better.
https://www.apnews.com/877ee1015f1c43f1965f63538b035d3f
What do you think should happen if it's proven that Russia Russia Russia was created by the Obama administration as a political weapon against a legitimately elected President? I'm sure you've played out that possibility so I'm curious what your thoughts are.
 
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What do you think should happen if it's proven that Russia Russia Russia was created by the Obama administration as a political weapon against a legitimately elected President? I'm sure you've played out that possibility so I'm curious what your thoughts are.
I’d leave that up to Mueller or Rosenstein, or Sessions or the DOJ.
 
I’d leave that up to Mueller or Rosenstein, or Sessions or the DOJ.
Are you leaving the Russia stuff up to them to? You're very vocal about one possibility and completely silent about the other.

Sessions is a Trump appointee. If he says the Obama administration is guilty, will you actually believe him or is that just another peg in your illegitimate government theory?
 
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Probably gonna need to define what constitutes a free and fair election because that kind sounds like accepting the results as long as you end up winning....which I previously criticized Trump for saying.

Unless it’s proven that Russians or/or a big conspiracy of separate state election officials actually changed votes from Hill to DTJ in sufficient numbers to change a sufficient number of electoral votes to install Trump over Hill, the election was free and fair.

If Russia and/or Trump and/or others uses twitter bots, social media analytics, propoganda, whatever to dupe enough Americans to vote for Trump instead of Hill, that’s a free and fair election and a inherent risk of an uninformed or ill-informed electorate....you deserve the government you are duped into electing. Of course, if the electorate determines they feel angry enough about being duped, impeachment proceedings would be appropriate. “High crimes and misdemeanors” worthy of removal is pretty much whatever the electorate through it’s elected reps determine it is....doesn’t really require a violation of the criminal statutes to qualify as such.
I feel like this is obvious to those with their heads out of the sand. The evidence of voters being removed from the roles has already and is slowly coming out, now whether that was done by the states themselves and or the Russians/Nationstates will eventually be seen. Like I posted earlier the state of Georgia is a good place to start, then Michigan and Florida.
 
I feel like this is obvious to those with their heads out of the sand. The evidence of voters being removed from the roles has already and is slowly coming out, now whether that was done by the states themselves and or the Russians/Nationstates will eventually be seen. Like I posted earlier the state of Georgia is a good place to start, then Michigan and Florida.


Can we assume that in your estimation you are the guy in this thread who’s head is not in the sand?
 
TMuiJgS.jpg
 
Are you leaving the Russia stuff up to them to? You're very vocal about one possibility and completely silent about the other.
The evidence leads down one path. I’m not engaging in fantasy. My facts are those that Robert Mueller himself has laid out. I don’t need to speculate considering I have been beating this drum for near three years now. I have personal sources from before the election that we’re telling me what they were hearing from those experience and monitoring it in real time. No you don’t have to believe me and no I don’t care if you do. You can ask JD about how long I’ve been on this. He doesn’t have to agree with what I have said in the past for it to have been bore out over the last three years. I was wrong in my assertions that President Obama and the Military/IC wouldn’t allow Trump to take the presidency and I was wrong about the Republican Party standing up to him, I didn’t believe they were all in the same Russian honeypot until it was too late. So did my sources/fathers friends. They were Republicans until 2017 and the last one switched to Democrat this year. That’s the very simplest terms. You believe what you want. I believe what the facts and experts in their respective fields tell me.
 
Are you leaving the Russia stuff up to them to? You're very vocal about one possibility and completely silent about the other.

Sessions is a Trump appointee. If he says the Obama administration is guilty, will you actually believe him or is that just another peg in your illegitimate government theory?
Well he is recused because of his interactions with Russians during the election so..................... he might not have the best claim to legitimacy after all is said and done.
 
I feel like this is obvious to those with their heads out of the sand. The evidence of voters being removed from the roles has already and is slowly coming out, now whether that was done by the states themselves and or the Russians/Nationstates will eventually be seen. Like I posted earlier the state of Georgia is a good place to start, then Michigan and Florida.

So a massive vote changing conspiracy big enough to tip the electoral college is “obvious”...unless you have your head in the sand.

Yeah, that’s gonna get a

o_O:confused::rolleyes:.
 
The evidence leads down one path. I’m not engaging in fantasy. My facts are those that Robert Mueller himself has laid out. I don’t need to speculate considering I have been beating this drum for near three years now. I have personal sources from before the election that we’re telling me what they were hearing from those experience and monitoring it in real time. No you don’t have to believe me and no I don’t care if you do. You can ask JD about how long I’ve been on this. He doesn’t have to agree with what I have said in the past for it to have been bore out over the last three years. I was wrong in my assertions that President Obama and the Military/IC wouldn’t allow Trump to take the presidency and I was wrong about the Republican Party standing up to him, I didn’t believe they were all in the same Russian honeypot until it was too late. So did my sources/fathers friends. They were Republicans until 2017 and the last one switched to Democrat this year. That’s the very simplest terms. You believe what you want. I believe what the facts and experts in their respective fields tell me.

Holy Shit.
 
The evidence leads down one path. I’m not engaging in fantasy. My facts are those that Robert Mueller himself has laid out. I don’t need to speculate considering I have been beating this drum for near three years now. I have personal sources from before the election that we’re telling me what they were hearing from those experience and monitoring it in real time. No you don’t have to believe me and no I don’t care if you do. You can ask JD about how long I’ve been on this. He doesn’t have to agree with what I have said in the past for it to have been bore out over the last three years. I was wrong in my assertions that President Obama and the Military/IC wouldn’t allow Trump to take the presidency and I was wrong about the Republican Party standing up to him, I didn’t believe they were all in the same Russian honeypot until it was too late. So did my sources/fathers friends. They were Republicans until 2017 and the last one switched to Democrat this year. That’s the very simplest terms. You believe what you want. I believe what the facts and experts in their respective fields tell me.

One path may be right but the one you are suggesting is a phenomenally dry well to date.

Damn we are really down to the walk-on’s here between you and @CSCOTTOSUPOKES

I at least thought between you two, you were the smart one. Now I’m not so sure.
 
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