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Am I the only one who thinks the lineup should be left as it is?

tfpoke said:
Joe is 2-8 against wrestlers in the top 10 the past 3 seasons (not counting medical forfeits against Chandler and Jacobe). Not sure why you guys have him as a finalist. Not saying he isn't capable, but it's not like he's really proven it. I realize he was tied with Hall late in the match.... not sure how much of that had to do Hall staying in a Thai clinch for most of the match.
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Because as a slightly injured true sophomore cutting a bunch of weight he was wrestling for 3rd at the NC.

He has the talent and technical ability to compete at the top end at 165 and possibly up at 174 although there he is at a size and horsepower disadvantage there. Health and handling the cut are a factor but the ability is there no question.
 
History of guys missing the majority of a season, coming back in February, and performing well in March does not seem in favor of Weigel. Reshuffling 3 or 4 weights in February to get him back into the mix does, as MVP put it, seem like a big dice roll. Especially given his injury history.

Preseason, I was salivating at the thought of a JoJo-Joseph matchup at nationals. But with a cut down to 165 coming so late in the season, after a reportedly large cut before it, I'm concerned that Joe will not be nearly as effective at 165 this March as he would be at 174. I know there are top-end studs at 174, but Joseph, Marinelli, Wick, Shields, Marsteller, White, Massa, and M. Lewis aren't an easy bunch for a sucked-down guy to break through to high AA honors.

This could work out to get you guys a few extra points in the dogfight with Iowa and Ohio St, but it could also backfire in a major way and take you out of the Top 4. Risky . . . but I can also see where it would be difficult to not pull all the stops to claw for every point.
 
slushhead said:
History of guys missing the majority of a season, coming back in February, and performing well in March does not seem in favor of Weigel. Reshuffling 3 or 4 weights in February to get him back into the mix does, as MVP put it, seem like a big dice roll. Especially given his injury history.

Preseason, I was salivating at the thought of a JoJo-Joseph matchup at nationals. But with a cut down to 165 coming so late in the season, after a reportedly large cut before it, I'm concerned that Joe will not be nearly as effective at 165 this March as he would be at 174. I know there are top-end studs at 174, but Joseph, Marinelli, Wick, Shields, Marsteller, White, Massa, and M. Lewis aren't an easy bunch for a sucked-down guy to break through to high AA honors.

This could work out to get you guys a few extra points in the dogfight with Iowa and Ohio St, but it could also backfire in a major way and take you out of the Top 4. Risky . . . but I can also see where it would be difficult to not pull all the stops to claw for every point.
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I think a big part of it is what Preston wants to do. He is a senior and former AA and leader of the team. He may not want a 6th year and wants to finish the year wrestling if he can get healthy which he did. I'd imagine a rusty Preston beats an undersized Geer.

Jacobe also likely wants to go 174 if he can. I think Joe will stay at 174 and battle Jacobe if they feel the cut is to much during the process.
 
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Sebastian said:
Joe performs at nationals...he could perform better. What is it that can make a person hungry....hmmmm. Working out really super hard?
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Sure he could have been better. My point was out of everyone on our roster he has been the most consistent and reliable when it comes to scoring points when it matters. You can't say that about any of our other upper classmen. It is just odd to me a lot of people are so dismissive of the kid. He might be a notch below what we all expected but he has still been really good.
 
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coming out of muskogee as a super slick powerful prospect with just basic level coaching and commitment (kid was tying his shoes every chance he could get)

jacobe has gone out and done what has been asked of him

i hope he gets his best shot

chandler has been a personal favorite due to his style and story

i hope he is healthy and gets his best shot
 
osu2082 said:
I think a big part of it is what Preston wants to do. He is a senior and former AA and leader of the team. He may not want a 6th year and wants to finish the year wrestling if he can get healthy which he did. I'd imagine a rusty Preston beats an undersized Geer.

Jacobe also likely wants to go 174 if he can. I think Joe will stay at 174 and battle Jacobe if they feel the cut is to much during the process.
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I think you might be right about Preston. It would not surprise me if he preferred to give it a go this year (even at less than 100%), rather than try for a 6th year. I know his longtime fiance (wife?) graduated last year and she has started her fulltime career.

Another one of the things that was probably being juggled behind the scenes.
 
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I would honestly like to know when the "last minute shifting weights" strategy has actually worked out vs. made no difference or turned out worse for everyone... I understand how there looks like there is going to be an odd man out somewhere... AND? In my opinion... Picc is undefeated and should stay where he is at 125. lee has shown vulnerability and is beatable if his mind isnt right. same for Fix at 133. (when he wrestles with energy and is firing off shots he can beat anyone!) Kaid stays at 141. He is still capable of getting AA, he should have spent more time in the weight room last summer, he needs to find a way at this point and wrestle with confidence. 149 - G!!! wrestling great, should be a high AA, maybe finalist.. 157 - keep Sheets in, he is getting better if Shommer beats him out, so be it.. 165 - rogers all the way. the kid stepped up and stepped in when we needed him a few years ago despite going through a family tragedy.. its our turn.. 174 - jojo ... he needs to get his mind right, keep his weight right, be as close as 100% by big12s, if he wrestles like he did at the scuffle, he can beat anyone at the weight..184 - wrestle off between Geer and Jacobe.. 197 - preston I guess, I understand he is tough on top and very capable, it just makes me nervous that he has missed so much of the season. (it could work out in his favor since his body isn't as beat up as other guys) Maybe he should have stayed out and gone for a medical.. hwt - possible national champ, wrestling well.. I don't know that we have the firepower to win it without some penn state big guns either getting hurt of having a mental collapse. champs at 157, 197 for sure.. high AA at 141, 165, 174, hwt... that's a lot of points.. i hate to sacrifice guys and there career at the last minute for points that might not make a huge difference.. I don't know that Fix has any better shot at 125 than 133, it seems the same
 
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tim73034 said:
I would honestly like to know when the "last minute shifting weights" strategy has actually worked out vs. made no difference or turned out worse for everyone... I understand how there looks like there is going to be an odd man out somewhere... AND? In my opinion... Picc is undefeated and should stay where he is at 125. lee has shown vulnerability and is beatable if his mind isnt right. same for Fix at 133. (when he wrestles with energy and is firing off shots he can beat anyone!) Kaid stays at 141. He is still capable of getting AA, he should have spent more time in the weight room last summer, he needs to find a way at this point and wrestle with confidence. 149 - G!!! wrestling great, should be a high AA, maybe finalist.. 157 - keep Sheets in, he is getting better if Shommer beats him out, so be it.. 165 - rogers all the way. the kid stepped up and stepped in when we needed him a few years ago despite going through a family tragedy.. its our turn.. 174 - jojo ... he needs to get his mind right, keep his weight right, be as close as 100% by big12s, if he wrestles like he did at the scuffle, he can beat anyone at the weight..184 - wrestle off between Geer and Jacobe.. 197 - preston I guess, I understand he is tough on top and very capable, it just makes me nervous that he has missed so much of the season. (it could work out in his favor since his body isn't as beat up as other guys) Maybe he should have stayed out and gone for a medical.. hwt - possible national champ, wrestling well.. I don't know that we have the firepower to win it without some penn state big guns either getting hurt of having a mental collapse. champs at 157, 197 for sure.. high AA at 141, 165, 174, hwt... that's a lot of points.. i hate to sacrifice guys and there career at the last minute for points that might not make a huge difference.. I don't know that Fix has any better shot at 125 than 133, it seems the same
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Your question about whether guys have successfully dropped at the last minute before is discussed briefly in this thread...

https://oklahomastate.forums.rivals.com/threads/postseason-vs-regular-season.78069/

Ironically, when I started that thread I didn't realize it would be us putting it to the test. o_O
 
Roger interviewed Espo, Preston & Dakota on his latest podcast. A few tidbits...

- For the Iowa lurkers, Espo said he spoke with Gilman this summer and Gilman told him that after he lost his ranking match to Cory Clark as a rFr, he then wrestled off for the 141 spot.
- Preston said he always planned to return in mid to late February. Basically said him and coach Smith were on the same page about that. Also said he feels pretty healthy and he wants to (and believes he can) win it all (not just AA).
- Dakota said coach Smith is one of the fairest coaches he's ever had. Said coach told him that he thought 184 was best for him individually & also the team. Said when he came to OSU that he knew how tough the room was and that he would have to fight for his spot.
 
Geer has been weighing in light at 197. Shouldn’t Geer have had time to be at 184? If so is a light Jacobe still better than a full sized Geer at 184? And if that is the case why are we bumping Chandler out? The coaches obviously see these guys everyday, I know at one point John mentioned in an interview about Chandler being married and riding off into the sunset, when questioning how bad he really wanted it. I just feel like this whole shift goes deeper than we know.
 
OHkie said:
Geer has been weighing in light at 197. Shouldn’t Geer have had time to be at 184? If so is a light Jacobe still better than a full sized Geer at 184? And if that is the case why are we bumping Chandler out? The coaches obviously see these guys everyday, I know at one point John mentioned in an interview about Chandler being married and riding off into the sunset, when questioning how bad he really wanted it. I just feel like this whole shift goes deeper than we know.
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Geer I think could wrestle at 184 for Iowa but that would be the first time he could make that weight worjbtje decent rules. Jacobe and the staff I'm sure feel like he has a higher ceiling at 174 and he can still make the weight and land a decent seed.

We knew all season that if all 3 AA's were healthy it was highly likely one of them was going to miss out on the post season. It took a little longer to materialize but this isn't a major surprise.
 
joe and jacoby have ranked before Reno and it wasn't even close. to be honest i don't think joe beats rogers at 65. i believe joe will be the odd man out.
 
topc22blue said:
Really?
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I hope that "Really" came with a cock of the head or maybe a shaking of the head. First, It is doubtful to me that they ranked before Reno and certainly they were not ranking at 165 as Joe was far from that in December. Someone will be sitting out and that is a shame. To say it won't even be close is a real stretch IMHO.
 
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oberebo said:
I hope that "Really" came with a cock of the head or maybe a shaking of the head. First, It is doubtful to me that they ranked before Reno and certainly they were not ranking at 165 as Joe was far from that in December. Someone will be sitting out and that is a shame. To say it won't even be close is a real stretch IMHO.
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joe and jacoby wrestled off not joe and chandler. believe what u may, just know joe couldn't beat jacoby at that time. taking chandlers spot seems to be a better option
 
northmarion2001 said:
joe and jacoby wrestled off not joe and chandler. believe what u may, just know joe couldn't beat jacoby at that time. taking chandlers spot seems to be a better option
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65 looked like it was in joes rear view mirror against missouri

he was huge
 
oberebo said:
I hope that "Really" came with a cock of the head or maybe a shaking of the head. First, It is doubtful to me that they ranked before Reno and certainly they were not ranking at 165 as Joe was far from that in December. Someone will be sitting out and that is a shame. To say it won't even be close is a real stretch IMHO.
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Precisely
 
marion must have an inside source because i have heard the same. i really don't think joe will be ready at 65 because of the cut....
 
thompsonja said:
marion must have an inside source because i have heard the same. i really don't think joe will be ready at 65 because of the cut....
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I think there are two different thoughts here. 1. If Joe is not ready for the cut to 165 then I have to believe that is on Joe. He wrestles at 157 two years ago and due to injury took off last year. He then allowed himself to balloon up to what some say was over 200 pounds. Based on his height and build this was not a healthy weight regardless of whether he wrestled or not. I am not going to debate how he got to that point and rumors are just that rumors. However, he is responsible for that. We need him at 165 in my opinion and if he can not make that then he may have to sit. The other thought is that he would go at 174. NorthMarion may have inside information about whatever occurred in December. I am not here to argue that but that is now three months ago. I do argue that Joe IMO is the superior wrestler at 174 now but I do not see Jacobe being punished for Joe's lack of responsibility. I am not the coach and I really do not want Joe to set out but if he can not make 165 I think it is his responsibility and just maybe he needs to sit out and ponder about next year and what he needs to do. These are hard choices I know and in the end John will make them. Maybe John has to accept some responsibility for his son's actions or lack of actions. We are not going to win this year IMO and we can be second and whether or not Joe or Chandler does not make the team will not change that. In no way do I want to be overly critical of Joe who may have made mistakes but is a college kid from a great family and from what I know is a good kid. Sometimes these mistakes lead us to better ourselves and prepare us for the future.

LETS GO POKES!!!
 
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oberebo said:
I think there are two different thoughts here. 1. If Joe is not ready for the cut to 165 then I have to believe that is on Joe. He wrestles at 157 two years ago and due to injury took off last year. He then allowed himself to balloon up to what some say was over 200 pounds. Based on his height and build this was not a healthy weight regardless of whether he wrestled or not. I am not going to debate how he got to that point and rumors are just that rumors. However, he is responsible for that. We need him at 165 in my opinion and if he can not make that then he may have to sit. The other thought is that he would go at 174. NorthMarion may have inside information about whatever occurred in December. I am not here to argue that but that is now three months ago. I do argue that Joe IMO is the superior wrestler at 174 now but I do not see Jacobe being punished for Joe's lack of responsibility. I am not the coach and I really do not want Joe to set out but if he can not make 165 I think it is his responsibility and just maybe he needs to sit out and ponder about next year and what he needs to do. These are hard choices I know and in the end John will make them. Maybe John has to accept some responsibility for his son's actions or lack of actions. We are not going to win this year IMO and we can be second and whether or not Joe or Chandler does not make the team will not change that. In no way do I want to be overly critical of Joe who may have made mistakes but is a college kid from a great family and from what I know is a good kid. Sometimes these mistakes lead us to better ourselves and prepare us for the future.

LETS GO POKES!!!
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i don’t want to see jacoby or chandler sitting
period

anything else is life in the ok st wrestling room
 
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Rdcldad said:
i don’t want to see jacoby or chandler sitting
period

anything else is life in the ok st wrestling room
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If Joe can make it to 65, Chandler and him should wrestle off for that spot. If Joe can not get down at this dual where he needs to be to make 65 for the Big 12 tournament obviously the 65 position should be Chandler's.
 
thompsonja said:
marion must have an inside source because i have heard the same. i really don't think joe will be ready at 65 because of the cut....
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Is there anything you can share about how Wittlake & Montalvo are looking in the room?

I'm a little concerned the coaches didn't send them to the Scuffle. They haven't wrestled since Reno even though there have been several opportunities.
 
My greatest fear is that Joe makes the cut to 165, bumps Chandler from the lineup and then fails to make weight at the B12 Tournament. I don't know Joe personally, but he certainly appears to lack some motivation. In that case, do you dash the dreams of Jacobe or Chandler in the hopes that Joe will get it together at the NCAA Tournament? I know, Joe is the most skilled, but what good is that if you aren't willing to make the effort to be at your absolute best?
 
cachap5327 said:
My greatest fear is that Joe makes the cut to 165, bumps Chandler from the lineup and then fails to make weight at the B12 Tournament. I don't know Joe personally, but he certainly appears to lack some motivation. In that case, do you dash the dreams of Jacobe or Chandler in the hopes that Joe will get it together at the NCAA Tournament? I know, Joe is the most skilled, but what good is that if you aren't willing to make the effort to be at your absolute best?
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If Joe can't make weight at Big 12s wouldn't you just wrestle Chandler?
 
To me it's Chandler spot Joe has failed to make his certified weight all year long.Chandler is a great kid who's done everything right and is a senior.Then let's talk about allocating a spot for the Big 12 Chandler will allocate a spot and Joe won't.To me this is a no brainer hopefully John sees the situation that way and will do what is right.
 
Jordan Kutler missed weight at EIWAs a few years back and then missed nationals. John would be livid if that happened.

Certainly some risks if Joe wins the 165 spot. Another is he will have to steal an automatic qualifier. He'll be unseeded, right? So he could potentially lose to someone like Ashworth early on and then Steiert in the consis. Very little margin for error.
 
Just have him wrestle at 184. What would happen there? Sounds like he'll weigh that with a couple days free grazing.
 
I would highly doubt Joe wouldn't make the weight. Now can he be highly effective with the cut? That's the question and he will get to prove it to a degree in a wreslte off or two prior to the confernce tournament.

I don't think it's some big conspiracy. If Joe makes 65 and beats Chandler then the spot is his. It's the life of a wrestler and how things have always been done. If he can't then Chandler is the guy.
 
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Wrassler17 said:
Is there anything you can share about how Wittlake & Montalvo are looking in the room?

I'm a little concerned the coaches didn't send them to the Scuffle. They haven't wrestled since Reno even though there have been several opportunities.
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They will be keys for next year and for the future. Hopefully they have developed a lot since December because from their early results they looked good but not very good. Most Cowboy fans here are happy with good, if we are to ever get to 35 we need very good. Wrassler, I would like to know how they are developing also. Next year I think 125 Pic, 133 Brock, 141 G, 149 Lewallen, 157 Sheets, 165 Joe Smith, 174 Wittlake, 184 Montalvo, 197 Geer, HWT ? and Fix doing an Olympic redshirt. Daton making the Olympics and doing well could jump the Program another level.
 
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osu2082 said:
I would highly doubt Joe wouldn't make the weight. Now can he be highly effective with the cut? That's the question and he will get to prove it to a degree in a wreslte off or two prior to the confernce tournament.

I don't think it's some big conspiracy. Of Joe makes 65 and beats Chandler then the spot is his. It's the life of a wrestler and how things have always been done. If he can't then Chandler is the guy.
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i don't think that Joseph is the same as Joey Wildasin :)
 
If weight is the issue, should the wrestle offs be best two of three, same day,1 hr way ins? Would give an honest assessment, no?
 
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