A Humane Fix For The Border Crisis
- Thread starter Ponca Dan
- Start date
This is a tiresome opinion. We already got to the root of it that you had no opinion on what would happen when 1 billion poor people came into this country. Hopefully you were joking.
So you read his opinion and dismissed it as tiresome? I actually thought it was an excellent solution. I’m curious what it is you find to be tiresome.
No your open borders position is tiresome. That’s why I quoted your second post and not the first. I skimmed your article and didn’t find anything that grabbed me. Masha visas? Can you give me the cliff notes?
One of our biggest immigration problems is people over staying their visas and you expect these people to show up for their hearings? Naive.
You'd have to get much tougher on illegal hiring and Visa enforcement.
Quit reading at Trump has cried wolf about a crisis on the border. Obvious biased idiot wrote this.
Well, I read halfway through it, probably 10 paragraphs, and no solution -- just an essay on Trump's poor policies. What's the proposed solution? Cliff's?
One solution is to post the thesis with the link.
The other solution is not to post clickbait. I hate it when there's a teaser and they expect you to sit through 10 paragraphs of slanted opinion to get to the new idea. The writer doesn't have a captive audience -- quit preaching and tell us the solution.
I not sure what you and Harry are finding to be so baffling. The man opines that temporary work visa be issued before letting people out into the country. Require them to renew the work visa every 90 to 180 days until they get their asylum issue resolved. As he points out 90 percent of today's asylum seekers do appear for their hearing, knowing it is their only shot to remain in the country legally. This really doesn't alter things very much, but it allows the US government avoid spending billions of dollars on a wall, freeing up money for the enhancement/enlargement of the adjudicatory segment to speed up the process. Again, I'm not sure what you find so unappealing.
Harry, my open borders opinion was not on the table in this discussion. It has nothing to do with what the person wrote.
Your response to brad absolutely references your opinion of open borders. If we could get a list of rules from you about these gray areas that would probably help.
All that sounds interesting, i didn't say it was unappealing or criticize the solution -- I critiziced the author making the reader sift through several paragraphs of duplicative dogma before getting to the meat of the article. I appreciate you condensing it for me, that sounds like common sense.
This would a decent idea if first, every illegal already in this country was registered, fined and given a set of rules to live by. Also if those showing up at the border were let in based on what our economy needed. And a dna sample was taken.
It’s all workable but the numbers have to be controlled, the penalties for going around the system increased and the southern border completely fortified in one way or another. Congress has purposefully let this problem
Fester for how many decades in a row?
Thanks, Man. I've been cutting back on the adrenochrome and pushing the LSD a little more.
Another completely impractical solution to a problem that could be easily fixed, if the whores in congress did their job. But I'll point out a few of the flaws in the article, although there are many.
How can the author make an economical argument about shutting down the border and the monies it would cost with Mexico, our third largest trading partner, when in the same breath this person doesn't mention the economic impact of illegal immigration in the US. Crime and incarceration (guarantee you it costs more to keep a prisoner locked up vs someone in a detention center), public school burdens, driving with no insurance, taxes not paid, medical bills not paid and so on. The rest of their economic argument is just scaremongering with who knows who's statistics.
The second and even more laughable is issuing everyone a 180 working permit and canceling it if they don't show up for their hearing. Are you f**king kidding me. There are states that don't even notify ICE when they are holding a criminal that needs to be prosecuted or deported. What in the world would be your incentive to show back up if you're working for cash and getting free goodies via taxpayer largess?
The MASHA (Make America Secure and Humane Again) acronym pisses me off to no freakin end. We have almost a million KIA's keeping the world free. The hutzpah of this author is breathtaking.......America has been one of the most humane and generous countries know to history. So screw the reprobate that wrote this article. Man or women, if they said that to my face I might punch their sorry ass in the face.
Also, which is it...people fleeing because of gang violence or Trump threatening to shut down the border?
Lastly, those cowards fleeing should be trained to carry a weapon and sent back to take their country back. Instead they want to go to countries so the government can tuck them in every night and take care of their ever need (borne out by surveys that most illegals hold the government responsible for their security, well being and prosperity).
I'll give you credit PD, you find some off the wall articles but this one is about as silly as I've seen posted.
How can the author make an economical argument about shutting down the border and the monies it would cost with Mexico, our third largest trading partner, when in the same breath this person doesn't mention the economic impact of illegal immigration in the US. Crime and incarceration (guarantee you it costs more to keep a prisoner locked up vs someone in a detention center), public school burdens, driving with no insurance, taxes not paid, medical bills not paid and so on. The rest of their economic argument is just scaremongering with who knows who's statistics.
The second and even more laughable is issuing everyone a 180 working permit and canceling it if they don't show up for their hearing. Are you f**king kidding me. There are states that don't even notify ICE when they are holding a criminal that needs to be prosecuted or deported. What in the world would be your incentive to show back up if you're working for cash and getting free goodies via taxpayer largess?
The MASHA (Make America Secure and Humane Again) acronym pisses me off to no freakin end. We have almost a million KIA's keeping the world free. The hutzpah of this author is breathtaking.......America has been one of the most humane and generous countries know to history. So screw the reprobate that wrote this article. Man or women, if they said that to my face I might punch their sorry ass in the face.
Also, which is it...people fleeing because of gang violence or Trump threatening to shut down the border?
Lastly, those cowards fleeing should be trained to carry a weapon and sent back to take their country back. Instead they want to go to countries so the government can tuck them in every night and take care of their ever need (borne out by surveys that most illegals hold the government responsible for their security, well being and prosperity).
I'll give you credit PD, you find some off the wall articles but this one is about as silly as I've seen posted.
This is the wrong premise being spewed. It's styled so that the US is the boogieman and will reap negative economic consequences if the border is closed. How about the other premise which is more likely, that Mexico will realize much more harm to their economy if the border is closed. And realize that harm much quicker.
It's always presented as the harm to the US economy and never the other country. Yes, our economy might take a couple of punches but the Mexican economy has more to lose and be brought to its knees quicker by any closure of the border.
Methinks your reply is a preposterously overboard emotional reaction to what the man wrote. He says right up front that while he does not consider the situation to be of crisis proportions he readily agrees there is a problem, and the problem needs to be addressed. He calmly and succinctly proposed a solution that will not cost the American taxpayer or consumer any money, and will eliminate the concern that the world will see the US as a country filled with hateful, xenophobic racists. He supplies a modicum of data to support his opinion. It's an opinion piece, not an academic paper, so he does not delve into the minutiae.
The author makes an economic case of what will be the impact on our economy if Trump makes good on his threat to shut the border. He is not comparing the cost of the economic burden illegal immigrants currently bring, probably because the burden will be there whether the border is closed or not. Closing the border will add to the cost.
Your concern that immigrants will not reappear to make their case for asylum has a modicum of validity. But, as he points out 90 percent of them reappear under the current situation. Under his plan they would not face deportation, but would be given updated temporary work permits until such time as their case can actually be adjudicated. Considering the backlog it would probably take years before they would "face the music." So there is no reason for them to hide. They would be reissued permits to stay, so it would not be in their self interest to avoid reappearance.
I agree with you 100 percent regarding immigrants receiving "free stuff." I have argued on this board several times that our energy should be directed toward eliminating the free stuff, and that would reduce the incentive that bring many of them here in the first place. But I am assured by many of the "build the wall" people that reducing or eliminating the free stuff is not realistic. To be honest I have never understood why that would be unrealistic. At least half, probably more, of the population would agree with the sentiment.
You asked which is it: people fleeing the violence at home or Trump threatening to shut the border which is the cause of the uptick. The author makes it pretty clear that it is both. If they want to get away they better do it before the window closes on them. It's not an either-or situation. It's a double whammy they face, so they are choosing to come while it looks like they might get in.
I'll ignore the insulting reference to your calling them cowards. Neither of us know what their situation is, and it is not for either of us to insult them.
Lastly, I would like to make this point: philosophically I am in favor of open borders. I am enough of a realist to know that will not happen in my lifetime. So while I advocate for open borders as an intellectual exercise, I agree with the author of the piece that a "realistic" solution needs to be found. To say I am for open borders is not to say I want them to come. I want them to stay where they are. But building a wall is only one of many options that should be explored. IMO it is not a solution. It is merely something that will enhance the power of government bureaucrats to lord it over the rest of us.
I will now relinquish my soapbox back to you!
You and I will probably not agree to agree on much of this. Except I agree about ending any and all "free stuff" for anyone who is not a citizen. The wall is going to funnel people into better patrolled areas which makes sense. I've never seen an OK highway patrol on a dirt section road looking for speeders...why not? Because interstates and highways have more targets.
Immigrants not reappearing is way more than 10%, so not sure where he gets his fact that 90% re-appear when they are supposed to. According to the DOJ here are the stats
"Twenty-eight percent of migrants released in the U.S. didn’t show up for their hearings during the fiscal year that ended Sept. 30, 2017, according to the latest DOJ records. Of the 149,436 immigrants that were released in the U.S. during that time, 41,384 were no-shows.
Over a five-year period through the end of September 2017, the records show 23 percent of undocumented migrants released in the U.S. didn’t show up to legal hearings. Of the 665,930 immigrants who were released,151,492 were no-shows."
Don't care if you ignore my reference to "cowards" or not. Name one country in the world that got more successful because thousands of its citizens left when it got to rough for them? And since we aren't talking religious persecution that's not a valid argument. Would American citizens take off if gangs got so bad as to endanger their families? Bet not, they would band together and start open season on offenders. Maybe they would send their wife and kids to an enclave somewhere, but the men (snowflakes excluded) would stay and fight, then bring their families back once law and order reigned again.
A backlog of 850,000 tells me there are to many people seeking asylum on a flimsy basis since the statistics show only 1 in 10 actually are granted asylum, so yes even the status quo is still costing taxpayers millions. As I have often stated on this forum, my wife is Brazilian and to legally get someone in this country is a very laborious task, costs thousands of dollars and there are no freebies. In fact there are numerous opportunities for deportation, with a few exceptions
You philosophically being for open borders is a death sentence for developed western countries. Back in the day when people came to the US they assimilated. The US even stopped nearly all immigration for a period to let new immigrants assimilate. Do you think the Irish or Germans were marching around with their countries national flags and not adopting American customs? Hell no they weren't, not what you see from these low educated (or illiterate) central Americans and Mexicans coming to the US today.
I do agree there are solutions, actually pretty simple ones but politicians being the worthless whores they are won't seal a deal to make it happen. Regan tried to compromise and got hosed why would Trump try to make a one-sided deal with the liberal whores in Congress?
If things are so bad where they live, why not go to Panama or Columbia? Lot closer, don't have to learn a new language and safer than were they are. Even Mexico offers asylum and citizenship, why don't the masses stay there? The US can no longer be what it was in the early to mid 20th century with regards to immigration...illegal or otherwise.
As for as the author telling me, as an American citizen, that I should worry what the world perception of America is....BFD! His quip about Make America Secure and Humane Again is so outrageous and offensive he can get screwed. Because we want to know who is in our country and whether an asylum seeker is legit or not, that makes us inhumane???? What crap.
Last edited:
Notice the number of former Obama administration officials coming out saying there is a crisis on the border? Jeh Johnson, Obama's Homeland Security secretary was the latest. Johnson said 1,000/day is hard to process and 4,000/day is the definition of a crisis. Yet, the dems in the Congress still refuse to admit it.
Similar threads
