Last I heard as part of its revenge the Israeli government has killed more than twice as many Palestinians as Hamas killed Israelis in it’s attack. The number is something like 2,600, with over 700 of them being children. But let’s forget about the children and concentrate on the 1900 adults that have been killed. How many of those 1900 do you suppose were actual Hamas “soldiers” who were personally involved in the slaughter during its cowardly sneak attack? I speculate it’s not more than a handful or two. Let’s be generous and say it’s 80 of the 1900. Which would mean 1820 of those adults that were killed were innocent and had nothing to do with the surprise attack. (And if we add in the 700 children who we know were innocent and did not participate it would be 2520.). Are you good with those numbers, kill 2520 innocent people, 700 of them children, for every 80 Hamas terrorists? We can leave aside the infrastructure destruction, which by all accounts the IDF is just getting started. Is there a ratio of innocent civilian to Hamas terrorist where you say it’s too much? If so what ratio is acceptable to you?
Speculate With Me
- Thread starter Ponca Dan
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You kill the enemy until they quit. When the government embeds their military infrastructure in the civilian population then there's going to be a greater number of civilian deaths. The death ratio is determined by Hamas, not Israel.
Also, this isn't 'revenge'. It's getting justice for what Hamas did and securing the peace for the future.
Also, this isn't 'revenge'. It's getting justice for what Hamas did and securing the peace for the future.
Okay, but please answer the question. I bet the vast majority of the civilian population was ready to quit immediately. Fat lot of good that did the 2520 dead civilians. What are you thinking they are supposed to do since they are completely unarmed when Hamas shows up and tells them to stay where they are while they imbed with them? Please give some thought to it and provide a serious answer. What’s the acceptable ratio for you? Let’s assume Hamas is willing to hold out until every last Palestinian, civilian and terrorist alike, is slaughtered. Is that acceptable to you? Is what Hamas did worth that amount of Israeli revenge?
Actually the Biden administration was on the brink of brokering a peace agreement between Israel and Saudi Arabia that could have changed the entire dynamic in the ME. Iran could not tolerate that and much speculation is that’s why they ordered Hamas to do what it did.
I did answer your question. You kill the enemy until they quit. Any civilian death is on Hamas. Period. So you need to ask your question to the Hamas leadership or the Palestinian people who elected them.
Please read this and see if it has any effect on your thinking.
By the way you didn’t answer the question, you dodged it. If there is no ratio acceptable to you that’s fine, just say so.
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When an armed force imbeds itself within the civilian population, collateral damage will occur.
If those civilians don’t want to die, don’t live among those that would use you to shield themselves. They know who the bad guys are and could take them out and give them to Israel without Israel having to put a foot in Gaza.
You must not know that they are “imprisoned” in Gaza. They are not allowed out. They have no place to go. Half their population are children. They are unarmed, Hamas is not. They are pawns for Hamas (Iran) and undeserving and unprotected collateral damage for Israel. Hate Hamas all you want, they deserve it. But don’t fool yourself that the people deserve to be slaughtered and it’s all Hamas’ fault. Israel does not need to do what they’re doing. They are doing it because, as their defense minister said, Israel regards them to be animals not human beings.
Did you say that with the same approval when the Ukraine armed forces set up in schools and hospitals and got shelled by Russia?
Yes, and the viet Cong along with the north Koreans. I may add leftist liberals to that list if things continue to go to hell in our country.
It horrible what is happening to the people in Gaza. I will not call them Palestinians that is a manufactured name, they are actually banished Arabs.
Isreal has publically stated what their intentions are and are prewarning people to flee.
Isreal will not stop, they consider eliminating Hamas an act of self preservation. The Holocaust insured that the Jews will never relinquish their safety to outsiders ever again.
Innocent lives could be spared if Hamas wanted it. Isreal wants it, otherwise they wouldn't warn anyone but they consider Hamas to be an evil entity that must be destroyed no matter the sacrifice.
Rant away at the Jews it will change nothing, Hamas unleashed the whirlwind and now will suffer the results. It's a shame they will take many innocent people who live in Gaza with them.
Isreal has publically stated what their intentions are and are prewarning people to flee.
Isreal will not stop, they consider eliminating Hamas an act of self preservation. The Holocaust insured that the Jews will never relinquish their safety to outsiders ever again.
Innocent lives could be spared if Hamas wanted it. Isreal wants it, otherwise they wouldn't warn anyone but they consider Hamas to be an evil entity that must be destroyed no matter the sacrifice.
Rant away at the Jews it will change nothing, Hamas unleashed the whirlwind and now will suffer the results. It's a shame they will take many innocent people who live in Gaza with them.
Poppycock. That’s like saying I tied you to a stake and told you to run away because I’m about to set it on fire. Israel knows exactly what they’re doing to innocent people, half of them children, and it doesn’t care.
Isreal knows exactly what it is doing and they are not going to stop but you seem to believe they are targeting innocents. They are targeting terrorists who are using innocents as shields. That horrible fact will no longer protect the terrorists.
What would you do if your neighbor was shooting at you and aiming rockets at your family but were doing it standing behind their wife and kids?
What would you do if your neighbor was shooting at you and aiming rockets at your family but were doing it standing behind their wife and kids?
Are they really innocent or are they like the modern day leftist in this country, indoctrinated useful idiots?
Hamas’ actions made it clear to Israel they have two choices….death or death to Hamas first and possibly some children as they hide amongst them. Are you saying you’d choose death if you were Israel? I wouldn’t.
Dan, these people (the genocidaires on this board) would kill ever single child in Gaza in order to get the last Hamas member.
Have any evidence to that? Numerous pieces out there of Palestinians openly supporting the extermination of every Jew on the planet, I haven't seen to much of that from the pro Israel side. While you can ignore it all to your hearts content, it's not the Israelis that want genocide of a religious group.
Where are people calling for the extermination of all Palestinians. What I see is people understanding that Israel has every right to defend itself and insure the Palestinians never attack them again. I'm sorry but Israel didn't start this by attacking Palestine, the Palestinians attacked Israel. Can't blame the Israelis for putting a boot in the Palestinian's ass.
I see no one willing to answer Dan's question of how many dead Palestinian children is too high of a price to pay. I see some justifying the killing of children and I see some truly disgusting people like claiming that Palestinian children aren't innocent.
How many Palestinians would you kill to get the last member of Hamas?
Hamas is an evil organization with evil intent and a desire to bring death to Israel. However it does not have the wherewithal to do anything short of pinprick attacks. The slaughter of last week is mainly noticeable because it was the most damage it has ever done or could ever do. It is not a threat to the existence of the nation of Israel, as badly as it wants to be. I have no idea where one can look to find the numbers of Israelis Hamas has killed compared to the numbers of Palestinians Israel has killed, but I would be it is overwhelmingly one sided for Israel. "Possibly" some children? Are you serious? Are you that dense? When half the people at a bombing target are children there will be more than "possibly" some children ripped to pieces.
So you are saying that Israel is liberating the vast majority of the people living in Gaze from a government that is imprisoning them. And the embedded government is hiding behind human shields.
Yet you put the onus on Israel. That belies your antisemitism.
I'm confused on how you do you know to kill. Especially they hide the weapons and melt in with the civilians.
What Isreal needs to do is allow the PLO, who runs the West Bank, to take over running Gaza. They do a pretty good job of keeping the peace and have become a non violent group.
What Isreal needs to do is allow the PLO, who runs the West Bank, to take over running Gaza. They do a pretty good job of keeping the peace and have become a non violent group.
You heard it here first folks. Putting the the onus of not slaughtering innocent children on the country bombing those children with bombs paid for by your tax dollars is antisemitism. Talk about the bigotry of low expectations.
No, I am saying that both Hamas and Israel imprison the civilian population for their own ends. This has nothing to do with antisemitism. It's like both Hamas and Israel have put the civilians out in an open killing field, taken positions on each end and began shooting at each other, telling the civilians they put in the middle it's their fault they're being killed because they're in the way.
Yeah I guess I’m dense and probably shouldn’t have played a game of speculation with someone unwilling to assign any responsibility to hamas for their children’s deaths. My bad
How is Israel ‘imprisoning’ people in Gaza? Why can’t they immigrate anywhere else in the world if they don’t want to be used by Hamas? Just because Israel doesn’t want them immigrating doesn’t preclude other nations from taking them.
So your premise is not based in reality.
Please take some time to go back and read this thread. I feel confident you will see that I have placed equal responsibility on Hamas for the perilous condition Gazan children are facing. You are assigning an attitude toward me that I do not have.
Israel told them they have 24 hours to get out. The only road out is under bombardment. Hamas has told them they will kill them if they try to leave. Where are they supposed to go? How are they supposed to get there? The "reality" is Israel controls every aspect of their well being. It decides how much water, electricity, food, etc. it allows them to have. If you would read the Aaron Mate link I posted in another thread you'd see the quote from the Israeli official that said they want to "put the Palestinians on a diet, but not so little that they starve to death."
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