Yes, Israel Is Committing Genocide
- Thread starter Ponca Dan
- Start date
definitely a different approach to solving poverty
The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy Paperback – September 2, 2008
"Mearsheimer and Walt describe in clear and bold terms the remarkable level of material and diplomatic support that the United States provides to Israel and argues that this support cannot be fully explained on either strategic or moral grounds."From one of his books, listed above. Sounds like a rational well thought out synopsis. Especially on moral grounds, because what we need to see is not to help them & see the peaceful Transjordanians, iranians, Iraqis, lebanese & every other one of those peaceful critters slaughter the ORIGINAL inhabitants of the Holy Lands.
I admire your efforts, but SenileDan has made up his mind and is on his own personal warpath.
I think he is a bit like Traber and just gets off taking these wild stands.
@Ponca Dan stance on Vietnam War?
The original inhabitants from what 1500 - 2000 years ago? Besides the majority of Jews in Israel are originally from Russia, not Palestine. If 100 years from now the Muslim world has taken over hegemony of the world (God forbid!) will it be fair in your mind for them to tell people inhabiting northern Oklahoma they have to pack up and get out, with assurances they will be forcibly removed to a concentration camp or murdered if they resist, because the Kiowa and Otoe are the original inhabitants? Is it okay in your mind for the hegemonic power to do to other people what it has done to the Palestinians? Will all white people in the western hemisphere be required to vacate the premises because hegemonic Muslims tell them they have to? It’s a slippery slope you’re insisting we step out on. Mearsheimer, by the way, is one of the rare rational voices in the “foreign affairs” world. But I can see that you would disapprove of him considering he warned the US not to push Ukraine into NATO because it would start a war. Turns out he knew what he was talking about. I wish we would have listened to him. I wish we would listen to him now. Alas it’s not to be! The warriors have won the debate, they always do, that’s why we always have wars.
What’s interesting to me is so many of you come on this board to reenforce each other and from that you assume everyone thinks like you do. Any differing opinion is a “wild stand.” It would probably come as a shock to you that about half the people in America and far more than half the people in the rest of the world consider you to be the ones making wild stands.
Half the people in this country can't tell you what a women is and now I'm supposed to value their opinion on Israel. LMAO.
I suppose you think that’s a clever rejoinder but in reality it’s just silly.
One other thing: I have been insulted and had my character slandered by almost all of you, but none has been so insulting or hurtful than having you compare me to Jim Trabor!
You’re nothing but an Al Eschbach.
I’m well aware that not everyone thinks like I do. You, pedoscott, systrogen, 2pesos, manbreasts, 07silt, and Dave if he’s still in purgatory think differently from me.
And while squatch and I agree on most major issues, he definitely thinks differently from me. A rather unique ghost in the machine there.
True. The main stream press in the west is hiding a lot of facts. Yes there is a genocide going on, unfortunately the part of the world that matters are hiding it so deep that normal public would not discover. But it is going to come out.
Okay, finally synthesized this all the above & while am sure it won't change your perspective I still think it bears out to mangle some of your straw man stuff.
Judaism, predates Islam by over 2,000 years. So yes the majority of jews back then were living in the Transjordan. Israel is one of the very few places Jews should be able to feel safe so what difference does it make where they came from Russia or BFE? Have you every looked/read how every country that had a Jewish population has either kicked the majority of them out or all of them out?
The f'in mooslums aren't going to take over the world. Read "Carnage & Culture," which explains why. The indians being given land by some "entity" telling NE OK resident to vacate is one of the bigger straw man arguments you've ever thrown out. As crazy as this might sound to you, weak cultures are conquered all over the world. Do you believe the indians would not have slaughtered whites if they had the ability & technology. The indians routinely raided other indian camps, massacred the inhabitants, raped the women & whom they didn't kill they kidnapped. In fact it was a "sport" to them. Indian tribes were driven to extinction by other indian tribes in fact.
For the billionth time Russia has/had been intent on taking Ukraine (Poland & the baltic states also) back since before putin. The NATO canard is just a wad of chewed up bubble gum you find on the bottom of a table at Denny's. If that were actually true then what was the excuse for the GD bolsheviks starting a war with Republic of Georgia or the current "breakaway Transnistria" which is trying to overthrow the Moldavian government? Name one country NATO has attacked without provocation? IN fact if his fear of NATO was so pronounced why would he start a war that they had to know would drive more countries into the NATO fold?
What Really Happened in Ukraine in 2014—and Since Then
A close look at the lies and distortions from Russia apologists and propagandists about the roots of the Ukraine war.
www.thebulwark.com
I've saved every article about the Russian invasion of Ukraine & from time to time I go back & read articles 1-year old it's amazing how wrong nearly every single person has been.
We have wars because institutions empowered by feckless bureaucrats never do their sworn or mandated duties & allow wars to metastasize instead of nipping them in the bud beforehand. How can russia still be on the security council? Why won't the west crush them with sanctions & not this incremental slow drop of sanctions with loopholes? Like The League of Nations before it the UN has turned into a rubber stamp of folly, with a toothless, gutless, dickless, group of corrupt bureaucrats who are only interested in lining their own pockets. Just think, Hitler could have been stopped in 1938 with a modicum of fortitude, but nope didn't happen & we have a World war that killed a few 100 million people & gave rise to guaranteed future conflicts because of weak, non-visionary & weakness in the face of the next group of tyrants & dictators. Russia could have been stopped years ago & was, but the dogooder liberals who infest government have allowed them to creep back into a nemesis for any freedom loving society/country. Same for the dam chinese.
What should come as no surprise to anyone on this board is I'm an Old Testament guy. Trying to cajole regimes with platitudes & favorable economic arrangements only makes them stronger & emboldens them to do what they were going to do in the first place, except with a stronger hand. It makes the initiator weaker & even less likely to arrive at hard decisions sooner rather than later.
Maybe I'm not following your argument as you intend, so please correct my error. As an Old Testament guy you believe it is appropriate for a stonger society to usurp the land possessed by a weaker society, round them up and put them in camps, treat them as subhuman, kill any of them that resist, because that is historically the way it has always been. Maybe my rhetoric is stronger than you meant, but isn't that essentially what you are saying? That fact that the Jewish religion predates the Muslim religion is really immaterial to the discussion at hand. The discusion at hand centers on the fact that in 1948 Zionist forces marched into Palestine and took it by force, and ever since has maintained its privilege with the aid of western European countries and the United States, a privilege they never could have kept otherwise. On a side note I find it highly amusing/ironic when you point out that the Jews have been kicked out of every country they have ever inhabited, since that same situation has been a reason so many pro-Israeli commenters on this board have offered as justification to hold Palestinians in contempt. The Jewish society that has always been kicked out got kicked out to a land where they could kick out a society that was in their way. I don't know what to make of that!
My point about American Indians having the same claim as the Zionsts is valid. A principle is either a principle or it is not. Zionists claim ownership of Palestine because their God promised it to them 2000 years ago. (*Their* God, no one else's, made them a promise and every other religion that worships a different God is supposed to honor the promise?) The principle that Zionists espouse lays claim to a land they had not occupied for millenia, saying it's their original homeland. Should we forget that the land was occupied by various African cultures before them? Do those African cultures have a more valid claim to call it their homeland? The principle insists Zionists have rightful claim because they were there first (even though they weren't). Why wouldn't the principle apply to American Indian tribes? They were here for thousands of years before Europeans showed up and took it from them. In what way would an American Indian claim to the same principle not apply?
I'll write more later.
My point about American Indians having the same claim as the Zionsts is valid. A principle is either a principle or it is not. Zionists claim ownership of Palestine because their God promised it to them 2000 years ago. (*Their* God, no one else's, made them a promise and every other religion that worships a different God is supposed to honor the promise?) The principle that Zionists espouse lays claim to a land they had not occupied for millenia, saying it's their original homeland. Should we forget that the land was occupied by various African cultures before them? Do those African cultures have a more valid claim to call it their homeland? The principle insists Zionists have rightful claim because they were there first (even though they weren't). Why wouldn't the principle apply to American Indian tribes? They were here for thousands of years before Europeans showed up and took it from them. In what way would an American Indian claim to the same principle not apply?
I'll write more later.
Maybe I'm not following your argument as you intend, so please correct my error. As an Old Testament guy you believe it is appropriate for a stonger society to usurp the land possessed by a weaker society, round them up and put them in camps, treat them as subhuman, kill any of them that resist, because that is historically the way it has always been. Maybe my rhetoric is stronger than you meant, but isn't that essentially what you are saying?
You’re putting words into my mouth because you are jumping to the opposite end of the spectrum. I say “Old Testament” for its enforcement of religion/doctrine in the most brutal form. My world is the one of reality PD, you’re Don Quixote tilting at windmills about how it should be. They don’t round up everyone & kill those that resist, the camps they are in are of their own making & malfeasance. The question is why haven’t they done anything remarkable in the lands they live in other then dig tunnels & plot to kill Jews & westerners? Is evil to be coddled or destroyed? While Israel is a democracy with arabs, women & muslims in the Knesset what can be said of the inhabitants of Gaza or the west Bank?
That fact that the Jewish religion predates the Muslim religion is really immaterial to the discussion at hand. The discusion at hand centers on the fact that in 1948 Zionist forces marched into Palestine and took it by force, and ever since has maintained its privilege with the aid of western European countries and the United States, a privilege they never could have kept otherwise.
It was a UN mandate that created “Palestine” a word heretofore rarely used as it was called the “Transjordan.” The Zionist, coming off a program of almost complete extermination, rightfully wanted a place to live they could call their own country. For the most part, they lived in complete peace with the co-inhabitants of the land set aside by the UN mandate up until the war of Independence in 1948. Even when attacked from all sides the Jews told the cohabitating muslims to not join the attackers & there would be no repercussions afterwards. Many left at the behest of the arab leaders from other nations based on the supposition they would wipe the Israeli’s out. There is no such F’IN thing as a “Palestinian, based on religion either.”
On a side note I find it highly amusing/ironic when you point out that the Jews have been kicked out of every country they have ever inhabited, since that same situation has been a reason so many pro-Israeli commenters on this board have offered as justification to hold Palestinians in contempt. The Jewish society that has always been kicked out got kicked out to a land where they could kick out a society that was in their way. I don't know what to make of that!
The "kicking out" of lands was for completely different reasons, hence the “religion angle” I spoke of above.”
Palestinians Have Been Slaughtering Israelis for Decades.pdf
I hold the Transjordanians in contempt because they are contemptuous, you need look no further to see the malcontents they are in-mass then Jaypal from the squad. Why would anyone want to deal with dishonest dealers?
My point about American Indians having the same claim as the Zionsts is valid. A principle is either a principle or it is not. Zionists claim ownership of Palestine because their God promised it to them 2000 years ago. (*Their* God, no one else's, made them a promise and every other religion that worships a different God is supposed to honor the promise?) The principle that Zionists espouse lays claim to a land they had not occupied for millenia, saying it's their original homeland. Should we forget that the land was occupied by various African cultures before them? Do those African cultures have a more valid claim to call it their homeland? The principle insists Zionists have rightful claim because they were there first (even though they weren't). Why wouldn't the principle apply to American Indian tribes? They were here for thousands of years before Europeans showed up and took it from them. In what way would an American Indian claim to the same principle not apply?
The Israelis have continuously occupied Transjordan to some degree for over 4,000 years. What are you talking about “African Cultures” before them? Egyptians, Ottomans, etc? The fact is the Transjordanians were given ample chances in numerous other countries to live but could never be peaceful about it & were always trouble. No wonder no one wants them except for Dearborn Michigan. Had the Gazans spend the $3-5 billion on developing terrorism instead of building tunnels do you think they would be better off?
https://www.shalomadventure.com/jewish-life/heritage/crash-course-in-middle-east-history
Israel isn't a colonial power — and it has every right to exist.pdf
Myths & Facts - The Refugees.pdf
Origins of the Name “Palestine” and Palestinian Nationalism.pdf
The Palestinian refugee ‘crisis’ is a United Nations-perpetuated myth.pdf
Israel has time & again tried to make peace with the PLO but to no avail. Had this been done 30 years ago there would easily be a 2-state solution in place & probably peace. But you see how acting benevolent & peaceful works to hyenas?
Regarding the Native North American dilemma.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-myth-of-the-stolen-country/
I suggest this guys book “Not Stolen: The Truth About European Colonialism in the New World,” very good reading.
How could you deny this fine IDF Sabra's a home ;-).
Imagine champion a people who if given the majority and the opportunity would kill those championing without batting an eye. Insanity.
You’ve overwhelmed me with too much reading to give an immediate reply. I did try to open your link that said Palestinians have been slaughtering Israeli’s for decades but it wouldn’t open. I have an honest question on that particular subject, my computer research skills are not good, maybe you can find the answer: Since 1948 how many Israeli lives have been slaughtered by Palestinians? How many Palestinian lives have been slaughtered by Israelis in the same time frame? IMO it is pointless to argue over “who started it” since it depends on *when* it started, and that’s a separate argument on its own. But for sure it’s become a tit-for-tat conflict and Israel with unlimited support from the west ($4 billion per year and another $14 billion just to supply the tens of thousands of bombs Israel is dropping now) has been given the upper hand. We’ll just have to agree to disagree on how “saintly” Israel has been throughout. You seem to see them as pure as snow, always the innocent victim of Palestinian aggression, just trying to go along to get along, always stunned that they could be hated since they’ve done so much good to those sub-human animals who attack out of nowhere for no good reason. I see them as being at least as violent, at least as aggressive and far more abusive. And I doubt that either of us will ever change his mind on that.Maybe I'm not following your argument as you intend, so please correct my error. As an Old Testament guy you believe it is appropriate for a stonger society to usurp the land possessed by a weaker society, round them up and put them in camps, treat them as subhuman, kill any of them that resist, because that is historically the way it has always been. Maybe my rhetoric is stronger than you meant, but isn't that essentially what you are saying?
You’re putting words into my mouth because you are jumping to the opposite end of the spectrum. I say “Old Testament” for its enforcement of religion/doctrine in the most brutal form. My world is the one of reality PD, you’re Don Quixote tilting at windmills about how it should be. They don’t round up everyone & kill those that resist, the camps they are in are of their own making & malfeasance. The question is why haven’t they done anything remarkable in the lands they live in other then dig tunnels & plot to kill Jews & westerners? Is evil to be coddled or destroyed? While Israel is a democracy with arabs, women & muslims in the Knesset what can be said of the inhabitants of Gaza or the west Bank?
That fact that the Jewish religion predates the Muslim religion is really immaterial to the discussion at hand. The discusion at hand centers on the fact that in 1948 Zionist forces marched into Palestine and took it by force, and ever since has maintained its privilege with the aid of western European countries and the United States, a privilege they never could have kept otherwise.
It was a UN mandate that created “Palestine” a word heretofore rarely used as it was called the “Transjordan.” The Zionist, coming off a program of almost complete extermination, rightfully wanted a place to live they could call their own country. For the most part, they lived in complete peace with the co-inhabitants of the land set aside by the UN mandate up until the war of Independence in 1948. Even when attacked from all sides the Jews told the cohabitating muslims to not join the attackers & there would be no repercussions afterwards. Many left at the behest of the arab leaders from other nations based on the supposition they would wipe the Israeli’s out. There is no such F’IN thing as a “Palestinian, based on religion either.”
On a side note I find it highly amusing/ironic when you point out that the Jews have been kicked out of every country they have ever inhabited, since that same situation has been a reason so many pro-Israeli commenters on this board have offered as justification to hold Palestinians in contempt. The Jewish society that has always been kicked out got kicked out to a land where they could kick out a society that was in their way. I don't know what to make of that!
The "kicking out" of lands was for completely different reasons, hence the “religion angle” I spoke of above.”
Palestinians Have Been Slaughtering Israelis for Decades.pdf
I hold the Transjordanians in contempt because they are contemptuous, you need look no further to see the malcontents they are in-mass then Jaypal from the squad. Why would anyone want to deal with dishonest dealers?
My point about American Indians having the same claim as the Zionsts is valid. A principle is either a principle or it is not. Zionists claim ownership of Palestine because their God promised it to them 2000 years ago. (*Their* God, no one else's, made them a promise and every other religion that worships a different God is supposed to honor the promise?) The principle that Zionists espouse lays claim to a land they had not occupied for millenia, saying it's their original homeland. Should we forget that the land was occupied by various African cultures before them? Do those African cultures have a more valid claim to call it their homeland? The principle insists Zionists have rightful claim because they were there first (even though they weren't). Why wouldn't the principle apply to American Indian tribes? They were here for thousands of years before Europeans showed up and took it from them. In what way would an American Indian claim to the same principle not apply?
The Israelis have continuously occupied Transjordan to some degree for over 4,000 years. What are you talking about “African Cultures” before them? Egyptians, Ottomans, etc? The fact is the Transjordanians were given ample chances in numerous other countries to live but could never be peaceful about it & were always trouble. No wonder no one wants them except for Dearborn Michigan. Had the Gazans spend the $3-5 billion on developing terrorism instead of building tunnels do you think they would be better off?
https://www.shalomadventure.com/jewish-life/heritage/crash-course-in-middle-east-history
Israel isn't a colonial power — and it has every right to exist.pdf
Myths & Facts - The Refugees.pdf
Origins of the Name “Palestine” and Palestinian Nationalism.pdf
The Palestinian refugee ‘crisis’ is a United Nations-perpetuated myth.pdf
Israel has time & again tried to make peace with the PLO but to no avail. Had this been done 30 years ago there would easily be a 2-state solution in place & probably peace. But you see how acting benevolent & peaceful works to hyenas?
Regarding the Native North American dilemma.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-myth-of-the-stolen-country/
I suggest this guys book “Not Stolen: The Truth About European Colonialism in the New World,” very good reading.
How could you deny this fine IDF Sabra's a home ;-).
Nice pics!!!
You’re talking about the Zionist Israelis, right? They’re currently in the middle of intentionally “killing as many as possible” without batting an eye.
He’s as American as you. Besides, what’s your point? That only Jews can opine on what genocide is? That’s a convenient attitude for a Zionist to have while the government is slaughtering people in record numbers.
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LMAO. The killings would stop if the Palestinians would surrender. For some reason you keep ignoring that part.
Swing and miss. You’re the champion of the Israeli merciless slaughter of Palestinians, I think you were one of the ones who agreed that Israel should “kill as many as it takes.” And Israel no longer hides its intentions, it wants to kill as many Palestinians as it can and drive whoever is left into the desert or the sea, they don’t care which one. So it is reasonable to recognize that it was Israel you were talking about.
That's what war is isn't it. Kill and destroy until they decide to surrender? Little Pro Tip for you Dan, don't start a war, especially with a superior military, if you don't want to be killed.
I don't think Dan can get a grip with terrorists will be taken out.
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Pls read history how the European Jews started coming to Palestine in early 20th century. Read about the civil war and how they treated Palestinians during and after the war. Why were Zionists were declared terrorists by the British.Maybe I'm not following your argument as you intend, so please correct my error. As an Old Testament guy you believe it is appropriate for a stonger society to usurp the land possessed by a weaker society, round them up and put them in camps, treat them as subhuman, kill any of them that resist, because that is historically the way it has always been. Maybe my rhetoric is stronger than you meant, but isn't that essentially what you are saying?
You’re putting words into my mouth because you are jumping to the opposite end of the spectrum. I say “Old Testament” for its enforcement of religion/doctrine in the most brutal form. My world is the one of reality PD, you’re Don Quixote tilting at windmills about how it should be. They don’t round up everyone & kill those that resist, the camps they are in are of their own making & malfeasance. The question is why haven’t they done anything remarkable in the lands they live in other then dig tunnels & plot to kill Jews & westerners? Is evil to be coddled or destroyed? While Israel is a democracy with arabs, women & muslims in the Knesset what can be said of the inhabitants of Gaza or the west Bank?
That fact that the Jewish religion predates the Muslim religion is really immaterial to the discussion at hand. The discusion at hand centers on the fact that in 1948 Zionist forces marched into Palestine and took it by force, and ever since has maintained its privilege with the aid of western European countries and the United States, a privilege they never could have kept otherwise.
It was a UN mandate that created “Palestine” a word heretofore rarely used as it was called the “Transjordan.” The Zionist, coming off a program of almost complete extermination, rightfully wanted a place to live they could call their own country. For the most part, they lived in complete peace with the co-inhabitants of the land set aside by the UN mandate up until the war of Independence in 1948. Even when attacked from all sides the Jews told the cohabitating muslims to not join the attackers & there would be no repercussions afterwards. Many left at the behest of the arab leaders from other nations based on the supposition they would wipe the Israeli’s out. There is no such F’IN thing as a “Palestinian, based on religion either.”
On a side note I find it highly amusing/ironic when you point out that the Jews have been kicked out of every country they have ever inhabited, since that same situation has been a reason so many pro-Israeli commenters on this board have offered as justification to hold Palestinians in contempt. The Jewish society that has always been kicked out got kicked out to a land where they could kick out a society that was in their way. I don't know what to make of that!
The "kicking out" of lands was for completely different reasons, hence the “religion angle” I spoke of above.”
Palestinians Have Been Slaughtering Israelis for Decades.pdf
I hold the Transjordanians in contempt because they are contemptuous, you need look no further to see the malcontents they are in-mass then Jaypal from the squad. Why would anyone want to deal with dishonest dealers?
My point about American Indians having the same claim as the Zionsts is valid. A principle is either a principle or it is not. Zionists claim ownership of Palestine because their God promised it to them 2000 years ago. (*Their* God, no one else's, made them a promise and every other religion that worships a different God is supposed to honor the promise?) The principle that Zionists espouse lays claim to a land they had not occupied for millenia, saying it's their original homeland. Should we forget that the land was occupied by various African cultures before them? Do those African cultures have a more valid claim to call it their homeland? The principle insists Zionists have rightful claim because they were there first (even though they weren't). Why wouldn't the principle apply to American Indian tribes? They were here for thousands of years before Europeans showed up and took it from them. In what way would an American Indian claim to the same principle not apply?
The Israelis have continuously occupied Transjordan to some degree for over 4,000 years. What are you talking about “African Cultures” before them? Egyptians, Ottomans, etc? The fact is the Transjordanians were given ample chances in numerous other countries to live but could never be peaceful about it & were always trouble. No wonder no one wants them except for Dearborn Michigan. Had the Gazans spend the $3-5 billion on developing terrorism instead of building tunnels do you think they would be better off?
https://www.shalomadventure.com/jewish-life/heritage/crash-course-in-middle-east-history
Israel isn't a colonial power — and it has every right to exist.pdf
Myths & Facts - The Refugees.pdf
Origins of the Name “Palestine” and Palestinian Nationalism.pdf
The Palestinian refugee ‘crisis’ is a United Nations-perpetuated myth.pdf
Israel has time & again tried to make peace with the PLO but to no avail. Had this been done 30 years ago there would easily be a 2-state solution in place & probably peace. But you see how acting benevolent & peaceful works to hyenas?
Regarding the Native North American dilemma.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-myth-of-the-stolen-country/
I suggest this guys book “Not Stolen: The Truth About European Colonialism in the New World,” very good reading.
How could you deny this fine IDF Sabra's a home ;-).
It was UN that gave Zionists the land see the role played by the US.
Sounds like an excuse for terrorists to be, well, terrorists. Unless yer gonna blame all this mess on the UK and US? Was this the message yer prophet Mohammed sent you?
That's a lot of their own Hamas is responsible for murdering.
What part of war do you not understand? Unfortunately, in many wars, especially those in urban warfare, more civilians are killed than soldiers which is just one of many reasons war is horrific and should be avoided.
The codified rules of war are very specific on combatants actions in avoiding civilian casualties. Israel has blatantly and intentionally violated those rules.
Your blind hate of Jews has warped your view on reality. That's not what is happening at all. But you do you.
According to to whom, the anti Israel faction? I'm sorry Dan but it has been proven without question Israel's enemies purposely imbed themselves among civilians for protection against attacks. Hospitals , Schools and residential communities have been found to not only be command centers but weapons depots and safe havens for enemy combatants.
Essentially what you and the rest of the anti Israel factions are saying is the Palestinians are free to attack Israel at will, while Israel is forbidden from responding because they hide among civilians. One side can break all international laws while the other is strictly held to them. SMFH.
What is obvious to anyone with a shred of common sense is the Israelis and the Palestinians mix like oil and water, meaning a two state solution or even living in close proximity is impossible. If the two can not live in peace together the only solution that will provide lasting peace is to separate the two where neither have anything to do with the other. Of course that is an unpalatable solution to most, even though it makes the most sense. Meaning an unending cycle of violence will continue.
You keep saying this and ignoring who is using them as military assets.
They’re human fortifications and used as such by the people you keep championing
They set the rules of engagement by hiding behind their children while waging war.
