Wiretap info within next two weeks?
- Thread starter MegaPoke
- Start date
You are such a simpleton. I have been saying these things for years - long before I ever hears of Breitbart, InfoWars or any other boogeyman you discredit because you don't like. The terminology is irrelevant.
I know you think it gets under my skin to say I'm a "straight up doctrine-following, company man" but coming from you, it just confirms that I am correct.
No, you haven't used the term "deep state" until recently.
I'm not saying it to get under your skin. I've never even heard it until right wingers started throwing the term around to explain why bureaucrats were fighting Biff. I'm saying it because it's true - I hear it in right wing media and it echos in your posts. You can call me whatever, but it's true. You parrot their talking points right down to the lingo. It's like you're part of the same hive. You once said to speak up when you sounded like a fan boy. Well, I'm not saying your'e a Biff fan boy (at least not in this thread) but I'm saying it's Garbage In/Garbage Out with whatever talking points Biff's fan boys put out there.
1. Using newly common nomenclature to represent the same concerns I've always had is irrelevant. It simply makes it easier and less nebulous to refer to the things I've discussed before.
2. There was one guy I asked to let me know if I'm being a fanboy and you ain't that guy.
Anyway - point is, this is clearly consistent with the way I've always posted.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...cations-trump-tower-subject-surveillance.html
I looked for a Breitbart approved site to link to, but no luck.
Probably fake news....even with the video.
I looked for a Breitbart approved site to link to, but no luck.
Probably fake news....even with the video.
Makes me sad
:-(
Once upon a time you were a credible, fact based skeptic, now Alex Jones believing sycophant...
Funny how folks once quite alright with the Russia hacking the election narrative now demand facts.
Ah, a document from an organization headed by a proven liar working for an administration lead by a liar of a magnitude never seen before.
Can you enumerate the liars for those of us who have not kept up with all the lying?
I have:
- Trump
- Pence
- Flynn
- Sessions
- Bannon
- Price
Potential 'smoking gun' showing Obama administration spied on Trump team, FOX source says...
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...stration-spied-on-trump-team-source-says.html
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...stration-spied-on-trump-team-source-says.html
One more week to go before I expect to hear fake news just like Russia from you guys.
Is the Russia deal not fake news? I have heard no one but CNN claim there is proof lately.
I don't know....might be.
I do know that there is an ongoing investigation at the FBI.
I also know the FBI Director said there was no evidence to back up Trump's wiretap claims.
I also know that Those here who labeled the Russia deal as fake news from the beginning aren't applying the same standard to the Obama wiretapped Trump thing as they did the Russia thing.
Finally, Trump gave us the timeline for proof that Obama wiretapped him....not me.
I am not sure I understand what you mean. ^^ "applying the same standard"
Are we both using "wiretap" the same way? If I found out someone was tracking my phone calls I would say "wiretap" even if that is old school. If he said wiretap and we find out later that it was microwave technology or whatever I can live with that. The real point is people might have been watching or listening in some way. We just dont have the facts yet.
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IMO, the operative issue isn't whether it was a hard wiretap, microwave technology, radio transmission, or some other technology. I'm good with calling all of those wiretapping. They're all Title III seizures of electronic communications. The operative issue is who was the target of those (so far according to Nunes, legal) orders.
I'm using it the way Trump did in his tweets.
You can go read them.
Obama tapping HIS phones.
Obama tapping TRUMP TOWER.
The worst allegation from Nunes and the supposed bombshell is that during valid FISA surveillance of foreign nationals, Trump members were incidentally recorded when they contacted those subjects whose phones were tapped. If you or I call our drug dealer who's phone is tapped or you or I call a foreign national subject to a FISA electronic seizure warrant and that phone call gets recorded....our phone hasn't been tapped by any stretch of the meaning of the word. Nor were our phone calls being "tracked".
There is now the further question/intimation that the names of those Trump officials that were incidentally recorded legally (in a situation like I described above) were "unmasked" and disseminated improperly (possibly illegally). In normal situations, the identity of the person not the subject of the electronic communications is redacted and identified with a generic designation like"USperson1" for FISA warrants.
So I disagree that the real point is people might have been watching or listening in "some way". The real point is whether wiretaps (of whatever variety) were directed at Trump people or whether they happened to call and talked to someone whom the wiretaps were on. The first one is a blockbuster. The second one is nothing. Comey settled which one of these happened and which one didn't for me....pretty definitively.
You do now have the additional implication that US persons were unmasked and disseminated contrary to law. I agree we don't have the facts yet on that issue.
JD set it out pretty clearly. If someone is under a wiretap (surveillance) warrant and I contact them and talk to them, that in no way means the LE was wiretapping me. My conversation was "incidental" to the wiretap as I was not a subject. However, if during my conversation it is discovered that I am complicit or engaged in a conspiracy to commit criminal acts with the person(s) being lawfully wiretapped, I wouldn't expect LE to ignore that fact and I would expect them to get warrants to listen in on me.
But that's not quite how it works with FISA, which has a different set of priorities than traditional criminal investigatory warrants and which provide far more protection for US Persons who may have been picked up incidentally to the original warrant.
Under FISA 50 U.S. Code Sec 1801 - et al, the provisions relate to those who are foreign nationals and the vast majority of the provisions require that steps are taken to minimize the risk that "US Persons" (that's citizens plus legal residents) are mistakenly caught up on surveillance. If there's no indication that the person who was caught conversing with the target of the surveillance, was involved or suspected of being involved in illegal activity, the Govt has 72 hrs to obtain warrants to retain the information collected or they are required to destroy the record of the communication in most instances.
50 U.S.C. Sec 1801(h):
"Minimization procedures", with respect to electronic surveillance, means—(1) specific procedures, which shall be adopted by the Attorney General, that are reasonably designed in light of the purpose and technique of the particular surveillance, to minimize the acquisition and retention, and prohibit the dissemination, of non-publicly available information concerning unconsenting United States persons consistent with the need of the United States to obtain, produce, and disseminate foreign intelligence information;
(2) procedures that require that non-publicly available information, which is not foreign intelligence information, as defined in subsection (e)(1), shall not be disseminated in a manner that identifies any United States person, without such person's consent, unless such person's identity is necessary to understand foreign intelligence information or assess its importance;
(3) notwithstanding paragraphs (1) and (2), procedures that allow for the retention and dissemination of information that is evidence of a crime which has been, is being, or is about to be committed and that is to be retained or disseminated for law enforcement purposes; and
(4) notwithstanding paragraphs (1), (2), and (3), with respect to any electronic surveillance approved pursuant to section 1802(a) of this title, procedures that require that no contents of any communication to which a United States person is a party shall be disclosed, disseminated, or used for any purpose or retained for longer than 72 hours unless a court order under section 1805 of this title is obtained or unless the Attorney General determines that the information indicates a threat of death or serious bodily harm to any person."
As JD said, if one of the Trump Team/Associates was picked up because they engaged in a conversation with a foreign target who was under LAWFUL surveillance, that in NO WAY IN HELL is equal to them being under surveillance themselves. It's ridiculous to try and conflate the two to even suggest that this would mean that Trump was correct in his claim that he and trump towers were specifically the target of surveillance/wiretapping by Obama.
But that's not quite how it works with FISA, which has a different set of priorities than traditional criminal investigatory warrants and which provide far more protection for US Persons who may have been picked up incidentally to the original warrant.
Under FISA 50 U.S. Code Sec 1801 - et al, the provisions relate to those who are foreign nationals and the vast majority of the provisions require that steps are taken to minimize the risk that "US Persons" (that's citizens plus legal residents) are mistakenly caught up on surveillance. If there's no indication that the person who was caught conversing with the target of the surveillance, was involved or suspected of being involved in illegal activity, the Govt has 72 hrs to obtain warrants to retain the information collected or they are required to destroy the record of the communication in most instances.
50 U.S.C. Sec 1801(h):
"Minimization procedures", with respect to electronic surveillance, means—(1) specific procedures, which shall be adopted by the Attorney General, that are reasonably designed in light of the purpose and technique of the particular surveillance, to minimize the acquisition and retention, and prohibit the dissemination, of non-publicly available information concerning unconsenting United States persons consistent with the need of the United States to obtain, produce, and disseminate foreign intelligence information;
(2) procedures that require that non-publicly available information, which is not foreign intelligence information, as defined in subsection (e)(1), shall not be disseminated in a manner that identifies any United States person, without such person's consent, unless such person's identity is necessary to understand foreign intelligence information or assess its importance;
(3) notwithstanding paragraphs (1) and (2), procedures that allow for the retention and dissemination of information that is evidence of a crime which has been, is being, or is about to be committed and that is to be retained or disseminated for law enforcement purposes; and
(4) notwithstanding paragraphs (1), (2), and (3), with respect to any electronic surveillance approved pursuant to section 1802(a) of this title, procedures that require that no contents of any communication to which a United States person is a party shall be disclosed, disseminated, or used for any purpose or retained for longer than 72 hours unless a court order under section 1805 of this title is obtained or unless the Attorney General determines that the information indicates a threat of death or serious bodily harm to any person."
As JD said, if one of the Trump Team/Associates was picked up because they engaged in a conversation with a foreign target who was under LAWFUL surveillance, that in NO WAY IN HELL is equal to them being under surveillance themselves. It's ridiculous to try and conflate the two to even suggest that this would mean that Trump was correct in his claim that he and trump towers were specifically the target of surveillance/wiretapping by Obama.
Finally someone admits to ignoring the past 8 years. Thank you.
boy who cried wolf... nk, iran.... this post has it all.
To be fair, Hollywood is well known for his ability to write absurdly lengthy posts.
Well, this aged excellently imo.
Shall we go grab some of the gems that have sprung forth?
chuk rosenberg former fbi official
gee thanks chuk
i feel so enlightened having read this
it’s like i have a whole new vocabulary
you provide my mind with the tools to
properly analyze the fbi surveiling the opposition candidate
hey chuk here’s a pro tip
trump won
and people aren’t as effin stupid as they used to be
Your leaders are pleased with you Swampy Sys.
You create no headaches for them.
You're on autopilot.
I can't wait until everything had shaken out. Ive lived through generations of these wingnuttery narratives blowing up in slow motion -- big and small. Iraq. Dumbya's recession. Seth rich, jade helm, birther, Biff's corruption and all the counter-spin to help conceal his likely criminality. Oh --- the 8 year Hillary obsession and accusations of crimes over and over... anything yet? IG gonna have her pleading guilty in a couple months?
You juuuuuuuust keep trying to kick that football.
While I'm flattered you think so highly of my ability (you're not wrong), I'm not trying to kick anything.
America is being made great again without undo influence from me...
...and despite 30-40% of us operating in perpetual, unhinged, zombie-like, negative Nancy mode.
