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Will the Silent Trump Voters Roar on November 3rd?

OKSTATE1

MegaPoke is insane
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May 29, 2001
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October 15, 2020
Will the Silent Trump Voters Roar on November 3rd?
By John Kudla


The polls appear to be shifting in favor of Joe Biden. A commonly heard explanation from Trump supporters is many of the polls are oversampling Democrats. This is true in some cases but not all. So, is something else going on here we do not really understand?

It is difficult to get an accurate sample of the electorate, especially when party affiliation numbers vary with the political climate. According to a Gallup survey during the first two weeks of September, party affiliation comes in at Republican 29%, Democrat 30%, and Independent 40%. When you factor in voters who lean one way or the other, the split is a 5% Democrat advantage, 50-45.

Most of the polls in the Real Clear Politics National Average, at least the ones without a subscription in which I can find data on party affiliation, are fairly close to the Democrat +5 number.

  • The Harris poll of registered voters gives the Democrats a 5% polling advantage, 37-32, and has Biden up by 5 points.
  • Fox News gives Democrats a 7-point advantage 49-42, and has Biden up by 10.
  • Reuters gives Democrats a 4-point advantage, 45-41, and has Biden up by 12 points. The party split sounds reasonable, but these are registered voters, and 9% of their sample is not Republican, Democrat, or Independent, making them an unknown factor.
  • CNN gives the Democrats a 5-point advantage, 33-28, and has Biden up by 16 points.
  • The latest Economist/YouGov poll favors Democrats by 10%, 37-27. They have Biden up by 9. Oversampling of Democrats appears to be the game here.
  • The New York Times poll is a surprise. It gives Republicans a 1-point advantage, 32-33, and has Biden up by 8.
The surface reality does not seem to reflect the pro-Biden polls. If you believe the liberal press, everybody hates Trump, but he routinely draws enthusiastic rally crowds in the thousands. Multiple pro-Trump boat parades have drawn hundreds and thousands of watercraft. Ditto for vehicle parades.

Everybody supposedly loves Biden, but his crowds are usually less than a hundred, and sometimes nothing more than the press corps.

There were at least Five million firearms purchased by first-time gun owners thus far in 2020. I am sure they will all vote for Biden so he can take their guns away.

Biden has the support of somewhere around 175 law enforcement officers. Trump’s support from law enforcement is estimated at 900,000.

According to Bloomberg, tens of thousands of small businesses are going bankrupt thanks to COVID-19 restrictions. Hundreds more have been looted and burned in riots. No doubt, all the business owners will support the Democrats who allowed this to happen.

According to a September Gallup poll, 56% of Americans believe they are better off today than they were four years ago. They must all hate Trump, too.

Okay, how do we correlate the political polls with the facts on the ground? More importantly, are the polls missing a hidden Trump vote? And if it exists, can we quantify it? To get an idea what is happening, we have to start with the present social climate.

The level of discord and division in the country has only been matched or exceeded twice before. Once during the Revolution and a second time during the Civil War. Much of this has been generated by the news media and the Democrats, who have waged a four-year-long negative information campaign against President Trump and his supporters. The social pressure created by voices screaming "liar," "racist," "white supremacist," etc. at a select segment of the population is having an effect. This may be causing voters to either lie in response to some of the poll questions or avoid political polls all together.

According to a recent Cato Institute poll, 77% of conservatives are now afraid to express their political views versus roughly 50% of liberals. This includes 40% of Republicans with a college degree and 60% with a post-graduate degree, who are afraid their political views will harm their careers, versus only 25% of Democrats. If you felt your job was threatened by expressing your political views, would you lie in response to a poll question?

There is also a psychological phenomenon known as “social anxiety” that can be caused by the fear of being judged by others. Social anxiety can produce something called social desirability bias, which causes people answering survey questions to respond in a manner they believe will be seen favorably by anyone who hears or reads the answers. In other words, if you felt an honest response would make you seem to be insensitive, uncaring, or even racist, would you lie in order to be seen more favorably by the pollster? If yes, you would be exhibiting social desirability bias.

This may explain why a Cloud Research poll taken between August 19-27 discovered roughly 10% of Republicans would not tell the truth to a political poll. Although Cloud Research says the results cannot be applied to the voting population at large because of the poll’s design, they ran two different panels of 1000 people each, and got the same result.

So, we have valid reasons for Republicans to be untruthful and a poll suggesting a possible number. Is there any evidence this is happening or has happened? Actually, there is.
 
If you look at the Gallup party affiliation poll mentioned above, which includes independent leaners, Democrats and Republicans were tied in April 2020 at 46-46. Only one month later in May, after the George Floyd incident, party affiliation widened to a 12-point Democrat advantage, 50-38. Voters claiming to be Republicans declined by 8 points. Where did they go? A simple guess is due to social pressure 4% were claiming to be Democrats and another 4% were claiming to be Independents. Since Republican party affiliation has now returned to 45%, the best guess is around 7% of Republicans were being untruthful in May. One could argue events following the Floyd incident, including the riots, brought voters back to the party, but it is more likely they just needed an excuse to claim to be Republicans again.

What about now? Is there a number we can point to and say “this is the silent Trump vote?” No. Picking a number would be nothing more than a guess. However, we can judge the effect a silent Trump vote would have on the election.

In the following composite estimate, I am using the Real Clear Politics averages of each individual battleground state and competitive senate race, with one difference. I am removing polls that are outliers and recalculating the RCP average. Example: in Florida, the RCP average gave Biden a lead of +3.7 points. I removed the Quinnipiac poll at Biden +11 and recalculated the average using all the other polls, which gave a more reasonable average of Biden +2.75. Here are the results.

Potential Effect of a Silent Trump Vote​
Points​
Presidential Election​
U.S. Senate​
0 +2​
Biden winsDemocrats take Senate
+2-3​
Local turnout decidesDemocrats take Senate
+3-4​
Local turnout decidesLocal turnout decides
+4-6​
Trump winsRepublicans keep Senate
Above +6​
Possible Trump landslideRepublicans keep Senate
What you see in the table is the average level of silent support President Trump needs in the battleground states to win a second term, if the election were held today. If the silent Trump vote is 2%, he has a chance of winning. At 4% it is likely Trump wins. Between 2% and 4% it becomes a question of turnout. The table also shows what Republicans need in the Senate races involving Collins, Tillis, Ernst, Loeffler, and possibly Peters in Michigan, to maintain control of the Senate. If the silent vote is 3% or higher, it is likely Republicans keep the Senate. If polls tighten, the number of silent votes needed for victory will also go down.

Skeptics will tell you it is impossible for modern polling techniques to miscount this much of the electorate. Pollsters claim their final prediction of the vote in 2016 was within the margin of error. Yes, but this is not 2016. I hesitate to use this comparison, but I believe I am correct is saying conservatives have endured a level of hate over the past four years similar to what the Jews endured in Germany in the 1930s. But we do not have brown-shirted gangs roaming the streets, assaulting citizens, breaking windows, and setting businesses on fire… or do we? How much social pressure has to be brought to bear before people fear to tell the truth? We will find out in a few weeks.
 
The 2016 IBD/TIPP poll finished with Trump +2.6, now -8.0. They were I think the only ones who at least had Trump winning although don't the polls measure the popular vote and not the electorate?

Yes, IBD/TIPP's national poll measures the popular vote not the electoral college. Their last poll did have Trump +2.6 in a four person race. When just Clinton and Trump was asked about though, Clinton was at +1. Clinton of course went on to win the popular vote by +2.1.

Also worth noting, at this point in 2016, Clinton had a +6.7 lead in the popular vote according to the RCP average. Biden RCP average today is +9.2.

There is no doubt that the polls, both national and swing state polls, look good for Biden right now. We still have 19 days to go though and this race could still tighten. Democrats should take nothing for granted right now.
 
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what were these polls saying in 2016?

RCP average in 2016 had Clinton winning the popular vote by +3.2. She won by +2.1, well within the MOE.

Lot of state swing polls were close late in 2016 too and when MOE was taken into consideration, showed the possibility that Trump could win the key states that he ended up winning. For example, in Pennsylvania, two of the last four polls had Trump tied and with a +1 advantage over Clinton. The RCP average of polls in PA on election day was Clinton +1.9. Trump won +0.7. Within the MOE. So the polls were showing a very close race in PA and the chance Trump could win PA. Why do you think Clinton was in PA the night before the election?

Right now, in PA, Biden has a +7.0 RCP advantage. There hasn't been a poll taken in PA showing Trump winning or tied since late August (Rasmussen, tied).
 
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funny I don't remember those polls being anything like that...being close at any time.

Well, they were.

There is a myth that has developed among some about what the polls were showing late in 2016. I think this is because of the many false predictions that were being made on some websites (i.e. Clinton has a 98% chance of winning). Those predictions were not polls though, they were just predictions. They were based in conventional wisdom, not data...

Pay Attention To The Data

The polling data from 2016 is still available for anyone to look at...

RCP 2016

People also forget that there were statisticians and pollsters warning that Clinton was in trouble, Nate Silver being one of them...

Silver: Clinton One State Away From Losing
 
One thing to note with the polls is whether they consider 'registered voters' or 'likely voters'. But the biggest question at hand is what turnout models the polls use to calculate their weightings. For example:



This poll shows Trump leading in Florida. They sampled all districts and give their data (which is more than some do), but I noticed they sampled Miami's (pro-Democrat) district at 3.1% while sampling the 11th district (mostly Rural area around Ocala about an hour North of Tampa) at 4.5%. That district is heavily Republican. So they've potentially oversampled Republicans. However, now you apply that sampling and the results against a projected turnout model. What % of the Miami district will actually come out and vote? Is it 55% or 60%? How about the Ocala district? That's simply a guess by the pollsters based on historical data that fluctuates every election. And note, we are talking about Congressional districts rather than counties, so they are roughly the same size in terms of number of people. Another interesting facet of the polling is the age of the responder. In this poll (and again I thank them for the published info as not all polls make it as easy as this one), they oversampled older voters vs. younger voters. 68% of their respondents are over the age of 45. This may align with exit polling data regarding actual voter turnout, but again is simply a guess as to what the real percentages will be. Finally, other demographics matter. So when you calculate Latino voters into your model, are you using the 70% figure that voted for Hillary nationally, or are you adjusting for the fact that 54% of Cuban-American voters in Florida went for Trump? Given that almost 20% of the electorate in Florida is Latino, with nearly half being Cubano, that type of modeling error alone would slant your poll by 2% to the left.

For the record, I'm not advocating this poll as a good or bad one. They each have their own models and most don't make it easy to understand their 'secret sauce'. I'm just demonstrating all the places where the model used by the pollsters can drive a markedly different result than what may be reflected in the actual election results.
 
Who in their right mind would admit to voting for Trump in a poll? So much less backlash if you tell them exactly what they want to hear then vote your conscious.

???

Are you saying Trump supporters are ashamed to say they support Trump? Also, what backlash are you talking about? Pollsters are just asking questions, they aren't debating or people for their answers.
 
???

Are you saying Trump supporters are ashamed to say they support Trump? Also, what backlash are you talking about? Pollsters are just asking questions, they aren't debating or people for their answers.
Trump supporters aren't ashamed one bit. If they're like me, I'll tell someone in a face to face conversation who I support, but not over the phone or internet.
Libbies are more prone to inflict vandalism to Trump signs and other things because of their TDS. My wife and I were on a walk the other day and she said she was concerned seeing all the Biden Harris signs in people's yards and few Trump signs. I gave her the same reason stated above.
 
Trump supporters aren't ashamed one bit.

Well if one can't tell a pollster they are a Trump supporter, that sounds like to me they are ashamed.

Which I get btw. I'd be ashamed too if I was a Trump supporter.

Libbies are more prone to inflict vandalism to Trump signs and other things because of their TDS. My wife and I were on a walk the other day and she said she was concerned seeing all the Biden Harris signs in people's yards and few Trump signs. I gave her the same reason stated above.

lol, ok. Whatever helps you get through the next 19 days I guess.
 
I know very few people that actively voice that they are voting for Trump. It's just not worth having liberals you associate with label you as a white supremacist or worse.

I've seen a lot of 40 year friendships blow up on Facebook etc over it.
 
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Well if one can't tell a pollster they are a Trump supporter, that sounds like to me they are ashamed.

Which I get btw. I'd be ashamed too if I was a Trump supporter.



lol, ok. Whatever helps you get through the next 19 days I guess.
Me? I'm fine. Can't believe it's already that close as i've had many other things more important to deal with. To clarify, I don't put any political signs in my yard or anything on my vehicles, including OSU stuff. Just not that kind of guy.
 
Well, they were.

There is a myth that has developed among some about what the polls were showing late in 2016. I think this is because of the many false predictions that were being made on some websites (i.e. Clinton has a 98% chance of winning). Those predictions were not polls though, they were just predictions. They were based in conventional wisdom, not data...

Pay Attention To The Data

The polling data from 2016 is still available for anyone to look at...

RCP 2016

People also forget that there were statisticians and pollsters warning that Clinton was in trouble, Nate Silver being one of them...

Silver: Clinton One State Away From Losing

LOL.....

Yay!!! Biden’s won the polling contest !!! He should put his polling contest trophy next to Hilliary’s!
 
Trump supporters aren't ashamed one bit. If they're like me, I'll tell someone in a face to face conversation who I support, but not over the phone or internet.
Libbies are more prone to inflict vandalism to Trump signs and other things because of their TDS. My wife and I were on a walk the other day and she said she was concerned seeing all the Biden Harris signs in people's yards and few Trump signs. I gave her the same reason stated above.

I don't wear any of my Trump shirts or have a Trump sign in our yard or our cars only because I do not want to have a confrontation with some crazed POS leftist. In my mind I can avoid confrontations with crazy POS leftist by not wearing or displaying Trump related items. I really do not want to be forced to defend myself or my family from some crazed POS leftist. I've had my CCL for years and only recently started carrying due to some of what I have seen when out and about. I do not want to be forced to shoot some POS leftist. Not wearing or displaying Trump items is my way of trying to avoid that situation. It's a damn shame that the left has become so violent that people actually think they can be assaulted merely for wearing a Trump Hat. The left has made sure fascism is alive and well in this country.
 
Trump supporters aren't ashamed one bit. If they're like me, I'll tell someone in a face to face conversation who I support, but not over the phone or internet.
Libbies are more prone to inflict vandalism to Trump signs and other things because of their TDS. My wife and I were on a walk the other day and she said she was concerned seeing all the Biden Harris signs in people's yards and few Trump signs. I gave her the same reason stated above.
I put up a Trump sign about 10 days ago. It was stolen in less than 18 hours.
 
I don't wear any of my Trump shirts or have a Trump sign in our yard or our cars only because I do not want to have a confrontation with some crazed POS leftist. In my mind I can avoid confrontations with crazy POS leftist by not wearing or displaying Trump related items. I really do not want to be forced to defend myself or my family from some crazed POS leftist. I've had my CCL for years and only recently started carrying due to some of what I have seen when out and about. I do not want to be forced to shoot some POS leftist. Not wearing or displaying Trump items is my way of trying to avoid that situation. It's a damn shame that the left has become so violent that people actually think they can be assaulted merely for wearing a Trump Hat. The left has made sure fascism is alive and well in this country.
I agree. Also, I have a long fuse when it comes to some things and a very short fused to personal confrontation, vandalism or theft.
 
Many Trump supporters today worry about being tagged "deplorable." They just as soon keep their mouths shut.

Lamumba enjoyed a reasonably high approval toward the end of his reign. Punch drunk whites were afraid to tell Gallup how they really felt for fear of being tagged racist. Trump's first quarter in office saw a 1.6 GDP growth rate. Biden's "We left Trump with a great economy" was pure BS.
 
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I don't wear any of my Trump shirts or have a Trump sign in our yard or our cars only because I do not want to have a confrontation with some crazed POS leftist. In my mind I can avoid confrontations with crazy POS leftist by not wearing or displaying Trump related items. I really do not want to be forced to defend myself or my family from some crazed POS leftist. I've had my CCL for years and only recently started carrying due to some of what I have seen when out and about. I do not want to be forced to shoot some POS leftist. Not wearing or displaying Trump items is my way of trying to avoid that situation. It's a damn shame that the left has become so violent that people actually think they can be assaulted merely for wearing a Trump Hat. The left has made sure fascism is alive and well in this country.
 
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In the past week, I've been called 3 times by the TX Dem Party and one polling outfit. Told them all I don't participate in polls or answer questions about whom I vote for. Dems continue to call.

In the last week or two Biden signs have appeared all over town. Of course, these residents have put Eddie Bernice Johnson in office for almost 30 years. Saw one yard sign that only said "Vote D". Lots of these people need help since they likely didn't learn their ABC's either.
 
At first I thought he was trying to make Trump voters complacent. But we’re getting into crushing hopes of Democrat territory with these numbers.

I don’t trust him regardless.
All polls are meaningless and simply tools to shape narratives is my stance.

I did some reading and if I understand him correctly, Silver is saying that his models assume that Kamala's polls after the DNC gave her a slight bump that will go away in a couple weeks so he went ahead and removed them. So Kamala went from barely being ahead of Trump WITH the DNC bump, to barely being behind him without it.

I think that's why he's projecting Trump to be ahead by so much.
 
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All polls are meaningless and simply tools to shape narratives is my stance.

I did some reading and if I understand him correctly, Silver is saying that his models assume that Kamala's polls after the DNC gave her a slight bump that will go away in a couple weeks so he went ahead and removed them. So Kamala went from barely being ahead of Trump WITH the DNC bump, to barely being behind him without it.

I think that's why he's projecting Trump to be ahead by so much.
Which makes no sense because his results are supposed to be the untouchably accurate conglomerate of all of the “real” polls.

That’s why he kicked Rasmussen out, cause liberals.
 
Yes, thats the way it works.
No, it isn't the way it works. Also, did you even bother to read the posts on this thread from 2020? Who was right and who was wrong?

btw, the mere fact that you went searching for this and resurrected a thread from four years ago tells me one thing about you . . .

tumblr_mtfzdeCGSm1rn4qwao6_250.gif
 
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