What makes a person racist?

[Headhunter]

I and others on here have been called racist and most Tea Party/Conservatives are called racist by some on this forum.

Let me state were I am maybe that will clear it up.

Do I know people of color and like them? Yes.

Do I want bad things to happen to people of color? NO

Would I vote for someone of color who reflects my beliefs? Yes.

Do I want people of color to get fair and equal treatment in all situations? Yes.

Do I favor whites over people of color? No, I go with who is in the right.

Do I give law enforcement the benefit of the doubt? Yes.

Do I believe people of color should get some special treatment for jobs and advancement? Yes, within reason, we need them in positions of authority.

Do I believe that the lack of family values and supervision contributes to the disproportionate number of minority crime. Yes.

Do I believe Americans, today, are racist, no, I just believe they are very concerned about social issues and crime that is more pronounced in minority communities.


This post was edited on 9/4 10:33 PM by Headhunter

 

[davidallen]

I don't think you can consider the answer as a yes or no. As humans we all have subjective preferences - whether it be for food, sports teams, ales, and yes even people. These subjective preferences are based on everything from tangible experiences to irrational fears.

You might take a look at some of the work being done at Harvard on this topic - quite the eye opener for me when I took the IAT for Religious bias. I was most favorable to Christianity, Neutral on Judaism and Hinduism and moderately negative on Islam. The scores themselves were not the surprise - the order was. I figured I would be most positive to Hinduism and least to Christianity with all of them being mostly in a narrow middle "meh" band.

As to what makes someone racist everyone is to some degree... just a matter of where that line becomes an issue for society as a whole vs. your own problem. When you have power/influence, when you have control then you have to be better at setting aside the irrational/reflexive impulses and rely on reason alone.

 

[davidallen]

Link to Harvard IATs

Harvard IATs

 

[Headhunter]

Originally posted by davidallen:
I don't think you can consider the answer as a yes or no. As humans we all have subjective preferences - whether it be for food, sports teams, ales, and yes even people. These subjective preferences are based on everything from tangible experiences to irrational fears.

You might take a look at some of the work being done at Harvard on this topic - quite the eye opener for me when I took the IAT for Religious bias. I was most favorable to Christianity, Neutral on Judaism and Hinduism and moderately negative on Islam. The scores themselves were not the surprise - the order was. I figured I would be most positive to Hinduism and least to Christianity with all of them being mostly in a narrow middle "meh" band.

As to what makes someone racist everyone is to some degree... just a matter of where that line becomes an issue for society as a whole vs. your own problem. When you have power/influence, when you have control then you have to be better at setting aside the irrational/reflexive impulses and rely on reason alone.

Ok I believe everyone has built in bias. That doesn't make anyone a racist, it makes them human. Everyone gives their own race the benefit of the doubt and believes the others are racist.

 

[MegaPoke]

Your mistake is in giving law enforcement the benefit of the doubt.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Holding prejudiced beliefs + using the power you have to negatively affect the racial groups you are prejudiced against.

 

[poke2001]

Blond, I agree with you that both Obama and Holder are racists.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Originally posted by poke2001:
Blond, I agree with you that both Obama and Holder are racists.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

Ha. I think the general consensus on this definition is your racial group has to be the dominant one, not just have a few in specific positions of power. But yes, they do now have the required power to be more than just bigots. They would still have to actually use that power to enact anti-white policies. I'm sure the board has numerous examples.

 

[07pilt]

Hows your research coming along?

 

[squeak]

I think people with white guilt are racists.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[Headhunter]

Giving law enforcement the benefit of the doubt is just the lessor of evils. I certainly believe law enforcement can be corrupt and used for unconstitutional purposes and there are many bad law enforcement officers.

Saying that these people encounter a-holes on a daily basis and the job has to be incredibly stressful.

 

[ctrawick]

I would say a racist is someone that attempts to cause harm
to someone just because they are different from them and by harm I don't necessarily
mean physical harm either.

 

[CBradSmith]

Originally posted by davidallen:
I don't think you can consider the answer as a yes or no. As humans we all have subjective preferences - whether it be for food, sports teams, ales, and yes even people. These subjective preferences are based on everything from tangible experiences to irrational fears.

You might take a look at some of the work being done at Harvard on this topic - quite the eye opener for me when I took the IAT for Religious bias. I was most favorable to Christianity, Neutral on Judaism and Hinduism and moderately negative on Islam. The scores themselves were not the surprise - the order was. I figured I would be most positive to Hinduism and least to Christianity with all of them being mostly in a narrow middle "meh" band.

As to what makes someone racist everyone is to some degree... just a matter of where that line becomes an issue for society as a whole vs. your own problem. When you have power/influence, when you have control then you have to be better at setting aside the irrational/reflexive impulses and rely on reason alone.

Everybody is racist to some degree? Is that your assertion?

Delve into the differences between these 2 situations:

i) A lady not giving a person different than herseslf a promotion at work due to them being different.

ii) Same lady, late at night on a dark street, walking to a friends house after spending the night at the club. She crosses the street when she sees some people walking toward her that look a certain way.

Which (if any) is the reasoned reaction? Which (if any) is an instinctive reaction?
Which action (if any) do you hold against the person, which don't you (if any)? Based on what merits?

 

[NipponPoke]

Originally posted by Headhunter:

I and others on here have been called racist and most Tea Party/Conservatives are called racist by some on this forum.

Do you ever read the comments on the Tea Party facebook website? They're actually quite comical while somewhat scary and depressing at the same time.

What I get a kick out of are the repeated statements about liberals being the real racists, only able to play the race card......and then, as soon as someone posts a photo of Michelle Obama, the most vile and racists comments are made about her post after post. Then they get into a battle amongst themselves about the racists posts. Hilarious.

Not long ago, an American veteran with PTSD went into a hotel in Florida but was denied a room because he had a dog prescribed to him by a doctor for his PTSD. The owner of the hotel was East Indian American. Hundreds of posts from the Tea Baggers were anti-Indian, anti-Muslim, anti-foreign owned business owners.

What gets me about the Lee Greenwood Tea Baggers is this.....they are so obsessed with illegal immigration and constantly stressing...'come here legally, learn the language, work hard, pay taxes and welcome to America'. However, if it's an East Indian hotel or convenience store owner, it's 'I ONLY buy American' or 'I only support American owned businesses'.

Total ignorance.

 

[CBradSmith]

Originally posted by NipponPoke :

Originally posted by Headhunter:

I and others on here have been called racist and most Tea Party/Conservatives are called racist by some on this forum.

Do you ever read the comments on the Tea Party facebook website? They're actually quite comical while somewhat scary and depressing at the same time.

What I get a kick out of are the repeated statements about liberals being the real racists, only able to play the race card......and then, as soon as someone posts a photo of Michelle Obama, the most vile and racists comments are made about her post after post. Then they get into a battle amongst themselves about the racists posts. Hilarious.

Not long ago, an American veteran with PTSD went into a hotel in Florida but was denied a room because he had a dog prescribed to him by a doctor for his PTSD. The owner of the hotel was East Indian American. Hundreds of posts from the Tea Baggers were anti-Indian, anti-Muslim, anti-foreign owned business owners.

What gets me about the Lee Greenwood Tea Baggers is this.....they are so obsessed with illegal immigration and constantly stressing...'come here legally, learn the language, work hard, pay taxes and welcome to America'. However, if it's an East Indian hotel or convenience store owner, it's 'I ONLY buy American' or 'I only support American owned businesses'.

Total ignorance.

Is your disappointment selective?

 

[squeak]

Facebook posts? Are you serious, Clark?
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[Headhunter]

Originally posted by NipponPoke :

Originally posted by Headhunter:

I and others on here have been called racist and most Tea Party/Conservatives are called racist by some on this forum.

Do you ever read the comments on the Tea Party facebook website? They're actually quite comical while somewhat scary and depressing at the same time.

What I get a kick out of are the repeated statements about liberals being the real racists, only able to play the race card......and then, as soon as someone posts a photo of Michelle Obama, the most vile and racists comments are made about her post after post. Then they get into a battle amongst themselves about the racists posts. Hilarious.

Not long ago, an American veteran with PTSD went into a hotel in Florida but was denied a room because he had a dog prescribed to him by a doctor for his PTSD. The owner of the hotel was East Indian American. Hundreds of posts from the Tea Baggers were anti-Indian, anti-Muslim, anti-foreign owned business owners.

What gets me about the Lee Greenwood Tea Baggers is this.....they are so obsessed with illegal immigration and constantly stressing...'come here legally, learn the language, work hard, pay taxes and welcome to America'. However, if it's an East Indian hotel or convenience store owner, it's 'I ONLY buy American' or 'I only support American owned businesses'.

Total ignorance.

People are so gullible.

There is a whole group of people who go around the internet and make the other side look bad, some of them are paid union hacks. I'm not saying everything is bogus, there are idiots of all stripes but it is much more prevelant on the left.

Go to a real Tea Party rally, you won't meet a more friendly, generous group of people. The internet morons don't show up for those but you do get the bogus people who carry racist signs who everyone knows are fake are most likely union people. They are roundly rebuked by everyone.

 

[NipponPoke]

I agree. Facebook is a gong show.

What websites do you recommend that more accurately reflect Tea Party view points? Not many Tea Baggers in Koh Samui to visit with.....so you have to take what you can get online.

 

[Headhunter]

Originally posted by NipponPoke :

I agree. Facebook is a gong show.

What websites do you recommend that more accurately reflect Tea Party view points? Not many Tea Baggers in Koh Samui to visit with.....so you have to take what you can get online.

I can't help you on websites. You are a resonable person just go with your common sense. If you ever get a chance to attend a legit Tea Party rally you will be surprised. They are peaceful and uplifting. But know this, most of the outragous stuff you see is the other side trying to make the other look bad.

I get both sides of the race issue, yes blacks have to fear the police, but the police have good reason to fear young black men and that makes other black people vunerable. It leads to police to making reactive decisions that are sometimes wrong. I wish it wasn't so but it is human nature.

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

Originally posted by Headhunter:

I and others on here have been called racist and most Tea Party/Conservatives are called racist by some on this forum.

Let me state were I am maybe that will clear it up.

Do I know people of color and like them? Yes.

Do I want bad things to happen to people of color? NO

Would I vote for someone of color who reflects my beliefs? Yes.

Do I want people of color to get fair and equal treatment in all situations? Yes.

Do I favor whites over people of color? No, I go with who is in the right.

Do I give law enforcement the benefit of the doubt? Yes.

Do I believe people of color should get some special treatment for jobs and advancement? Yes, within reason, we need them in positions of authority.

Do I believe that the lack of family values and supervision contributes to the disproportionate number of minority crime. Yes.

Do I believe Americans, today, are racist, no, I just believe they are very concerned about social issues and crime that is more pronounced in minority communities.



This post was edited on 9/4 10:33 PM by Headhunter

Don't you refer to FLOTUS as a gorilla, wookie, those types of things?

 

[davidallen]

Originally posted by CBradSmith:

Originally posted by davidallen:
I don't think you can consider the answer as a yes or no. As humans we all have subjective preferences - whether it be for food, sports teams, ales, and yes even people. These subjective preferences are based on everything from tangible experiences to irrational fears.

You might take a look at some of the work being done at Harvard on this topic - quite the eye opener for me when I took the IAT for Religious bias. I was most favorable to Christianity, Neutral on Judaism and Hinduism and moderately negative on Islam. The scores themselves were not the surprise - the order was. I figured I would be most positive to Hinduism and least to Christianity with all of them being mostly in a narrow middle "meh" band.

As to what makes someone racist everyone is to some degree... just a matter of where that line becomes an issue for society as a whole vs. your own problem. When you have power/influence, when you have control then you have to be better at setting aside the irrational/reflexive impulses and rely on reason alone.

Everybody is racist to some degree? Is that your assertion?

Delve into the differences between these 2 situations:

i) A lady not giving a person different than herseslf a promotion at work due to them being different.

ii) Same lady, late at night on a dark street, walking to a friends house after spending the night at the club. She crosses the street when she sees some people walking toward her that look a certain way.

Which (if any) is the reasoned reaction? Which (if any) is an instinctive reaction?
Which action (if any) do you hold against the person, which don't you (if any)? Based on what merits?

Brad - maybe it is just me but I am having difficulty parsing your questions but I'll give them a shot.

Fear based on a purely racial basis (absent any experiential basis) is xenophobic/racist. Crossing the street to avoid someone based on an irrational prejudice would be racist. Does it rise to the point of public outrage? No. If crossing the street is based on factual data (elevated crime rate in the neighborhood for instance) then it isn't racist.

Denying a promotion for the same reason - an irrational judgement based on non relevant criteria such as skin color, national origin, sexual preference, etc - is discriminatory. If the prejudice is based on race, it is racism. Does it matter? Of course it does - it is a denial of opportunity and should be dealt with (discipline but he employer, legal recourse if the employer does not step up to the problem, etc).

The statement that everyone is racist to some degree is really a statement that we all battle between emotional and rational reactions to the world around us. Our prejudices - and if you can't admit that you have some irrational prejudices that would be a whole different discussion - impact our thinking in ways we don't recognize. I see someone in a red t-shirt and I have a very different gut reaction vs. someone in orange - even if I am walking the streets of London. Put someone in a an OSU hoodie and they catch a break from me every time - totally irrational... When that irrationality begins to infringe on the freedom and opportunity of others is when we have a problem as a society.

 

[Headhunter]

Originally posted by syskatine:

Don't you refer to FLOTUS as a gorilla, wookie, those types of things?

No, show one post where I called anyone those things. I even try to use "President Obama" out of respect for the office but he makes it hard for me to always use that term of respect.

I have seen those posts and may have agreed with the jest of their point but I never used those words about anyone. I have called you and others moron or idiot but that is the worst I have used against another on this forum.

You can't say the same.

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

Originally posted by Headhunter:

Originally posted by syskatine:

Don't you refer to FLOTUS as a gorilla, wookie, those types of things?

I have seen those posts and may have agreed with the jest of their point but I never used those words about anyone.

Well, there you go. You lay down with dogs, you get fleas. You just relate with them and agree with them about everything they say on here. It's like when tea party rallies have a racist sign, and then they wonder why people think they're racist. They all identify with each other. You lump democrats together because of Jesse Jackson and welfare queens, don't bitch when you get lumped together with your conservative tea party racists. You believe and parrot everything else obvious racists say, what do you think's gonna happen?

 

[PDT816]

Can someone explain to me how a wookie in any way relates to a racial slur?

 

[Headhunter]

Originally posted by syskatine:

Originally posted by Headhunter:

Originally posted by syskatine:

Don't you refer to FLOTUS as a gorilla, wookie, those types of things?

I have seen those posts and may have agreed with the jest of their point but I never used those words about anyone.

Well, there you go. You lay down with dogs, you get fleas. You just relate with them and agree with them about everything they say on here. It's like when tea party rallies have a racist sign, and then they wonder why people think they're racist. They all identify with each other. You lump democrats together because of Jesse Jackson and welfare queens, don't bitch when you get lumped together with your conservative tea party racists. You believe and parrot everything else obvious racists say, what do you think's gonna happen?

You nailed it. Disagreement with someone else's policies is racist. You've never been to a Tea Party rally, I have been to several, the only racist signs there were being carried by people like you who are so desperate to hate the other side you would pose as a Tea Party person with a racist sign. It is so obvious when people like you show up that Tea Party people confront them in a non violent way, but of course that part is never reported. I'll take you to a Tea Party rally anytime you want, you can say or do anything you want and no one will do nothing but try and converse with you in a rational discussion. Go to a union rally and see if you get the same treatment if you don't agree with them.

 

[davidallen]

Originally posted by PDT816:
Can someone explain to me how a wookie in any way relates to a racial slur?

Anytime you compare a human to an animal or animal like creature - you probably should be ready to be questioned on your motivation. That a wookie is a dark skinned (furred) creature - one that looks like a large dog or primate of some sort - also adds to the skepticism. I think anyone would agree that comparing a dark skinned human to a gorilla is racist. It is only a couple of degrees removed to call the First Lady of the US a wookie.

Probably not fair to Chewbacca of course - given his superior intelligence and bravery, but not everyone is as versed in Wookie lore. And of course true Star Wars geeks know that Chewbacca was white (Peter Mayhew the actor that is).

Someone can call Chris Christie Jabba and probably not be considered anything but crude because race doesn't map - its a comparison of size with no racial connotations.

In the end, I can see the sensitivity but the comment says much more about who says it than it does Michelle Obama. It tells me your pretty freaking unimaginitive. Ranks up there with "flop eared Muslim"...

 

[PDT816]

Originally posted by davidallen:

Originally posted by PDT816:
Can someone explain to me how a wookie in any way relates to a racial slur?

Anytime you compare a human to an animal or animal like creature - you probably should be ready to be questioned on your motivation. That a wookie is a dark skinned (furred) creature - one that looks like a large dog or primate of some sort - also adds to the skepticism. I think anyone would agree that comparing a dark skinned human to a gorilla is racist. It is only a couple of degrees removed to call the First Lady of the US a wookie.

Probably not fair to Chewbacca of course - given his superior intelligence and bravery, but not everyone is as versed in Wookie lore. And of course true Star Wars geeks know that Chewbacca was white (Peter Mayhew the actor that is).

Someone can call Chris Christie Jabba and probably not be considered anything but crude because race doesn't map - its a comparison of size with no racial connotations.

In the end, I can see the sensitivity but the comment says much more about who says it than it does Michelle Obama. It tells me your pretty freaking unimaginitive. Ranks up there with "flop eared Muslim"...

The comparisons between blacks monkees, apes, gorillas, etc is racist because they were stereotypes applied/directed to a large segment, if not an entire race, of people. From a historical context, the comparisons where expressed literally. I understand why such labels are racist.

The question I have is whether "Chewbacca or wookie" is a racial epithat that applies to blacks in general or is it exactly like your Chris Christie example in that it's an attack on Michelle Obama individually? If it's just her, I'm not sure I think it's anything but bad taste.

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

PDT, I see you're resolving whether the usage of language is racist by the old etymology of the word and subjective intent of the speaker. Knowing that someone finds something offensive, or that they would, or simply lacking the capacity to recognize someone might view it as an obvious euphemism for a traditional racial epithet (ape vs. wookie) can be racist. The fact you analyze the situation by considering everything but the feelings it engenders in the probable target is probably the biggest indicator.

 

[squeak]

I'm all against racism but f*ck your feelings. People are ignorant assholes. You can't control what people say. All you can do is control how you respond.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

Originally posted by squeak:
I'm all against racism but f*ck your feelings. People are ignorant assholes. You can't control what people say. All you can do is control how you respond.

Posted from Rivals Mobile

Cool. My feelings are irrelevant. I'm not the minority he compares to apes, or whatever a wookie is.

 

[long-duc-dong]

This thread is comical. According to the sheep on this board if you disagree with someone of a different color than yourself you're a racist. Which is it? Do I have to call someone a wookie or jabba, or do I just simply have to disagree with them?

 

[squeak]

A wookie is a wookie.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[PDT816]

Originally posted by syskatine:

PDT, I see you're resolving whether the usage of language is racist by the old etymology of the word and subjective intent of the speaker. Knowing that someone finds something offensive, or that they would, or simply lacking the capacity to recognize someone might view it as an obvious euphemism for a traditional racial epithet (ape vs. wookie) can be racist. The fact you analyze the situation by considering everything but the feelings it engenders in the probable target is probably the biggest indicator.

Let me help you out here…

Calling Michelle Obama Chewbacca/a wookie is racist because ________________

You can either back up your viewpoint or you can't, but I don't belong as the subject of you post. I'm not part of the equation as to whether it's racist or not.

I honestly don't know - that's why I asked. But just because someone who favors the Democratic Party says it's racist doesn't make it so.

I'm of the position that the historical context behind the comparison of blacks to primates is one of serious gravity. Not sure I'm comfortable associating someone making fun of Michelle Obama's "unlady-like" behavior with decades/centuries of social agendas to condition people into thinking black people were less-than-human. But maybe I'm just more sensitive than most people.

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

Originally posted by long-duc-dong:
. According to the sheep on this board if you disagree with someone of a different color than yourself you're a racist.

Who said that? Now Dong is just making shit up.

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

Originally posted by PDT816:

Originally posted by syskatine:

PDT, I see you're resolving whether the usage of language is racist by the old etymology of the word and subjective intent of the speaker. Knowing that someone finds something offensive, or that they would, or simply lacking the capacity to recognize someone might view it as an obvious euphemism for a traditional racial epithet (ape vs. wookie) can be racist. The fact you analyze the situation by considering everything but the feelings it engenders in the probable target is probably the biggest indicator.

Let me help you out here…

Calling Michelle Obama Chewbacca/a wookie is racist because ________________

You can either back up your viewpoint or you can't, but I don't belong as the subject of you post. I'm not part of the equation as to whether it's racist or not.

. But just because someone who favors the Democratic Party says it's racist doesn't make it so.

. But maybe I'm just more sensitive than most people.

Lol, wonder why cons keep losing the minority vote? Now it depends on whether the person offended is a democrat. Can't argue with that.

Yeah, you're just more sensitive than most.

I guess unless the speaker doens't think it's racist, or it's in some published textbook labeled as "racist" then it's not. You right wingers really need to continue doing your own thinking on this one -- you've done a great job thus far.

 

[long-duc-dong]

Originally posted by syskatine:

Originally posted by long-duc-dong:
. According to the sheep on this board if you disagree with someone of a different color than yourself you're a racist.

Who said that? Now Dong is just making shit up.

Did you really just post that? I don't make shit up unlike yourself. You and every other obama fan continually call anyone on this board that disagrees with the president let's see.......toothless hillbillies, bigots, racists, rednecks.....I could go on, but calling people on here a racist is your mo. That's all you've got, oh and dumbya. Go chase some ambulances!

 

[PDT816]

Sys,

Not sure why you are throwing this temper tantrum. If you can't explain why it's racist let's move on. Attacking everyone else because you've got your back to the way isn't the way to proceed however.

 

[07pilt]

Originally posted by PDT816:
Calling Michelle Obama Chewbacca/a wookie is racist because ________________

Because wookies are close enough to apes and gorillas that the only people that would make that comparison are racist. Sure you could argue that wookies are fictional and smart etc. but you are basically at that point saying that you would rather risk potentially offending or dehumanizing someone than to give up even one out of hundred possible Michelle Obama insults (I mean come on look how fat her arms are) because of some loop hole that you have to be a nerd to even know about.

 

[PDT816]

Originally posted by 07pilt:

Originally posted by PDT816:
Calling Michelle Obama Chewbacca/a wookie is racist because ________________

Because wookies are close enough to apes and gorillas that the only people that would make that comparison are racist. Sure you could argue that wookies are fictional and smart etc. but you are basically at that point saying that you would rather risk potentially offending or dehumanizing someone than to give up even one out of hundred possible Michelle Obama insults (I mean come on look how fat her arms are) because of some loop hole that you have to be a nerd to even know about.

First, I'm not defending it. It's in extremely poor taste to call her Chewbacca. But that's just part of being a decent human being and has nothing to do with race. The same rules apply to your fellow posters and some of you should keep that in mind when you reply to each other.

But what you gave me is a circular argument. It's racist because only a racist would make it. I think you can make the comparison (even though you shouldn't) based solely on her mannerisms without race entering into the equation. Ergo, you can do it and be a POS but not a racist. If it's unique to her instead of applying to a larger segment of the black race(and that's exactly the case here), its' probably not racism.

What would make it racist is if using Wookie or Chewbacca was part of the popular culture as a slur against blacks before the comparison was made. That may very well case, which I why I asked in the first place. If it's a one-off comparison, I'm not seeing the racism here and actually find it offensive to liken it to a blight on our history.

 

[07pilt]

Originally posted by PDT816:

But what you gave me is a circular argument. It's racist because only a racist would make it.

It would be circular if I didn't go on to explain why only a racist would say it. I'll summarize again: only a racist would risk being dehumanizing and racially offensive by comparing a black person to a fictional ape like character given our country's history. It may not be explicitly black and white (colors not races in this context) by the book racism because of several loopholes that we have both mentioned, but it is definitely in a grey area and only a racist would play in a grey area just to gain the benefit of comparing the first lady to a sci-fi movie character.