07, I'm going to go ahead and reply - because for some reason I don't think you are quite the intractable, stubborn ideologue most political posters on this board are. I really am not interested in coming back over and over again to restate the same points that I'm pretty sure I've already made clear to everyone, so if the next reply from you is to be intentionally obtuse and misstate my points back to me, I'm out. You win.
To summarize, we should quit calling racist things racist, because people are less racist than they were before.
No. We should stop looking for racism where it doesn't exist or where it only subjectively exists. If you sit and look at clouds all day, you'll see shapes of things that you are looking for. Same thing. If you want to find racism, you'll find it - whether you've misidentified it or not. Sometimes, people are just being dicks. We have a long history of being rebellious and disrespectful to the ruling regime in this country. Are the Obamas so special that they don't deserve the same treatment that all of their white predecessors got? Of course people are going to be dicks to them just like they were to W. That's not necessarily being racist. It might be in some cases, but so what? Racism is on the decline as a relevant thing, and it's decline is slowed by all the pink elephants we call racism.
Its not about protecting MO its about whether it is worth making even a single person feel like less human or less welcome here based upon their race in order to make a stupid insult, when there are thousands of racially neutral insults available.
I think comparing anyone - regardless of motive - to an animal is purposely dehumanizing. Why is race an element that amplifies that? Let me state again - the wookie meme is stupid and disrespectful to her as a woman on it's own merit. Adding a racial element to that is subjective to the viewer.
The first time I saw the meme, I did not connect the dots to think of it as racist. I can see how the thought would cross someone's mind, but again, it requires that person to think about comparing humans (specifically black people) to apes - and then to somehow conclude that a wookie is an ape - which is really where this becomes a stretch because Wookies aren't apes. Jesus Christ people...
The only wookie we know is a fictional Star Wars character who is a highly intelligent alien being who can fix anything, fly the Millennium Falcon and is a business partner of Han Solo. of the two, Chewie always seems to be the one with his shit together, so it takes a massive leap to conclude that comparing her to a wookie is racist. Like it not, making that connection reflects on the person who made the connection. Again however, it was a dumb meme to begin with.
Let's get away from wookies for a second. How about the equally nonexistent
Grinch? Is this meme racist?
Personally I think it's a much better comic fit than a wookie, though it's still dumb and purposely dehumanizing. But I had the exact same reaction (basically, "meh" I see the joke, but it's not funny enough to laugh at or repost) that I did when I saw the Obama/wookie meme. If one is racist, why isn't the other? Because a grinch doesn't look like Bigfoot? Is Bigfoot racist? It's pretty confusing for someone who isn't racked with white guilt, guys. Help me out.
The wookie and grinch jokes seem to both be motivated by people who don't like whatever democrat regime is in office - just as whomever the next Repube who wins the office will have some kind of dehumanizing meme created about him/her. It's predictable and it has nothing to do with race. At. All.
You are getting cause and effect mixed up here. In a post racial society we can compare anyone to wookies, but comparing anyone to wookies in no way moves us towards a post racial society.[/B]
I hope you realized when you typed this sentence how hilarious it is and that it's ridiculous on purpose. Just in case it's not, I want to be clear. I do not perceive wookies as vehicles of social change. I view them as completely irrelevant that only those desperate to find racism can twist into the visage of a monkey. In fact, the worst thing about the Obama/Wookie meme is the terrible, vicious insult it is to Chewbacca.
I am sure it is much easier for you to not give a shit about race, than it is for someone that no one in your family would date a generation ago or someone who's father was lynched.
It is much easier. That's exactly my point. racism doesn't get fixed overnight. It literally does take generations to clean it out, but at some point it's healthy to acknowledge that we've moved a long ways towards being post racial. Humans kind of suck, and as such, racism will never cease to exist. But it has officially become very uncool to be racist among mainstream people who aren't hiding behind a computer and commenting on YouTube videos.
Noticing racist things and calling them racist isn't what gives them power, its their capacity to demean, exclude and remind people of their place in this country's racial hierarchy.
You are right! HOWEVER, noticing obvious political jokes that are perhaps... marginally, possibly and highly debatably partially racist
to your subjective opinion and then arguing about them on the internet is a waste of time. Please... If you notice
actual racism, give me a call and I'll come help you call that shit out.
Where on earth do you live where you don't encounter casual racism? You don't have facebook/read comments on news articles? Also I am sure we got to this point by people ignoring the N word and pretending like it wasn't racist to call people apes.
I live on the south side of the river in Bixby Oklahoma. When I went to school here in the 80's, we were mostly farm boys. Lots of gun racks in our trucks. It's a big rich suburb now but it's not that far removed from some pretty redneck roots. Also, I didn't say I don't encounter casual racism. I said it's not reflective of most social values anymore. I rarely encounter any type of racism, casual or not. But I certainly remember a time in this same place where it was less causal, very common and more overt. This is a positive trend. It's OK to acknowledge it. Obviously we still have a ways to go, but getting our panties in a bunch over dumb internet political jokes is not productive.
Also, are you new to the internet? If not, how have you managed not to notice that comment sections are where the absolute worst of humanity posts their most purposefully insensitive thoughts? Hell, how may times on this message board have you seen someone post something you know damned well they would never say to another person's face? Happens all the time because of the anonymity we perceive, safely ensconced behind our monitors and keyboard. I know all too well how vicious someone can be when they enjoy internet anonymity. I don't see much racism on facebook - but I guess it depends on who your friends are.
1968 was less than 50 years ago. People that dealt with that are still alive today. I am sure the people who are disproportionately targeted for drug offenses, or the people making $20K less than the median household will be happy to hear that racism is neutered once and for all.
I guess this is your gotcha anchor point? Obviously police departments are corrupt and racist. I've never said they aren't. I've also never claimed that we are actually in a post-racial world. What I've said is that socially, racism is no longer tacitly tolerated. Show me some stats on your $20k less figure. That sounds kinda made up to me. Would be interesting to see where you are getting this data. I've worked with plenty of black people who made the same as me. Maybe I've always just missed the secret meetings or something.
Your thesis is that we are getting less racist so we should quit being vigilant about racism. Makes total sense.
Nope. My point is that wookies are not got dam monkeys, you chimp.
Also the content of your character is shit if making a stupid insult is worth making some one feel demeaned based on their race.
Is it OK to make people feel bad about male pattern baldness? Being a woman? Having thick calves? resembling a horse? Just want to be clear on what it's ok to be a total dick about and what isn't. I want to make sure that when I make another human feel demeaned, it's for a GOOD reason they can't control instead of a BAD one.
