Are you sure we agree?
What specifically are we agreeing to? I'd like to see the deets of this contract.
Is that what this thread is about?
They??
- Thread starter WCPoke
- Start date
Are you sure we agree?
What specifically are we agreeing to? I'd like to see the deets of this contract.
Is that what this thread is about?
It's all good. I see that we agree that gender isn't binary.
I still don't know what we're agreeing to even though you cleverly repeated yourself.
What part is confusing you? Do you not see where I say what we agree on or is the meaning of it unclear?
What part is confusing to you given that you weren't born yesterday nor live secluded from society?
Since when is gender not binary? You can have a spectrum of feminine or masculine qualities, but gender itself is binary with the rare exception of those affected by Klinefelter syndrome. But that is considered a genetic defect or disorder by the science/medical community, and not really part of the normal gender debate.
2 posts ago you had a question. You seem confused on something.
Not binary then. Also there are other exceptions.
Please show me on the doll where Sys touched your gender.
"Conclusion: The prevalence of chromosomal abnormalities is low in transgender individuals, but the presence of heteromorphisms was common in this group of patients, especially in MTF transsexuals. Although chromosomal polymorphic variants are not considered pathological, some of them have been associated with infertility and recurrent miscarriage, especially when they involve genes located in heterochromatin’s regions. So far, the accurate significance of the presence of polymorphic variants on chromosomes of transgender individuals has not been evaluated."
Actual science hasn't concluded anything. Confusing correlation with causation is a rookie move. You should know this.
Hey, hey, hey. Ever wonder what rate heteromorphisms occur in heterosexuals?
That paper was in response to a dumb post about XX XY and was intended to establish the existence of chromosomal abnormalities and heteromorphism and it should not be taken to establish a link between those conditions and gender dysmorphia.
So no change to XX and XY. Gotcha, good stance. Fvckin folk science.
Ahhh. When you referred to the actual science of XX and XY as "folk science" and then posted a link to an observational study that clearly draws no conclusions of causation let alone any solid correlation, I was a bit confused.
Damn, he SHOULD know this.
Class was in session about a month ago on this very topic.
Depends on what heteromorphisms and what chromosomes we're referring to. Infertility was "linked" to heteromorphisms on chromosome 9 until 2013, when a large examination of chromosome 9 heteromorphism carriers determined there were more types than they had previously identified, and that there was a distinct difference in some heteromorphisms of chromosome 9 between western and eastern European people, none of which has actually been proven to cause infertility.
Heteromorphisms in the region of chromosome 9 are also thought to increase the risk of diabetes and heart disease. They've been working on that for at least 10 years and they have no definitive answers other than they believe it increases the risk.
For the purpose of addressing 07pilt, the apparent board science guru, when he calls heteromorphisms "abnormalities" just politely nod and pat his head. In the infant science of genetics, it's being discovered that these previously catalogued heteromorphic "abnormalities" look to be just normal variants that don't cause what they were once thought to cause. The genome map gets bigger everyday. At some point in the future, the smarties will be able to start separating normal variants from actual abnormalities to get a lot more in depth picture of our DNA and it's consequences.
Yes, XX and XY do tell the whole story. There are only two sexes. Gender is a social construct based on characteristics developed by hormones relating to the XX and XY (thank goodness for that). Chromosomal abnormalities are just that, abnormalities. They no more establish a new sex than microcephaly establishes a new normal in head size.
So in the end, "folk science" actually describes gender while "actual science" describes sex. Gender can be completely made up by anyone at any time while there are only two actual sexes which cannot be made up or individually decided, and some fairly rare sex chromosome abnormalities that can cause the presentation of abnormal sex traits.
I'm glad we cleared up the difference between folk science and actual science.
See this, @07pilt .... Deets of a position.
Now what are your deets, so that I know whether you are accurate in stating that you and I are in agreement.
On a scale of 1-10, how seriously are we supposed to take a study published by the Endocrine Society?
We are close. How do you determine which of the two actual sexes some one is? Genitalia or Chromosomes?
Either and both.
In cases of abnormality, sex traits are still going to be apparent based on the underlying presence of XX or XY . The sequelae of physical abnormalities is associated with what chromosomal defect they have unless they have one of the subtle ones such as XXX in females and XYY in males. In those cases, the abnormality might never be known unless tested. All of the XX+ with no Y material in any X will present with female sex organs. All of the X+Y+ will present with male sex organs. Even XX syndrome males have male sex organs. Because the SRY genetic material is contained within the X chromosome that comes from the father, they are phenotypically male although their gene composition is technically XX. The actual function of those sex organs in the ability to produce adequate sex hormones is a different story based on the abnormality.
Are we talking the activism/human rights UN version of intersex or actual science?
Compare the quad of the 2016 state champion on right (currently a junior) --- to the quad of the 2017 state champion on left (currently a freshman).
The grown ups are talking science instead of engaging in meme spam warfare.
You're in over your head right now.
Frankly, so am I. That's why I was reading and trying to learn something until now.
Which one? There isn't just one. Genetic sex chromosome mosiacism almost always presents with male sex organs in the presence of a normal Y chromosome or even X chromosome with SRY gene expression, such as the case of XXXXY, XXXY, XXY, and male XX. If there is abnormal or absent SRY gene expression in Y chromosome replication, such as female 46XY, they will exhibit female sex organ characteristics. SRY is responsible for the production of testis determining factor which causes the formation of testes and thus testosterone production which leads to a male fetus. Some other examples of genetic mosaicism include congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH) 46XX females who will develop outwardly pseudo-male appearing genitalia unless treated with corticosteroids, but they actually have a uterus and other normal female parts.
If you're referring to 45X/46XY mosiacism, that's the one that is most likely to present with what you're referring to as intersex (it's scientifically called genital ambiguity), although most 45X/46XY present as male in regards to external genitalia. External and internal masculization scoring do a pretty good job at detecting which are "males" and which are "females," even though the parents may not rear based on the presentation. Males with micropenis are more likely to be raised as females and some females with an obvious vagina and uterus are raised as males. The majority of long term studied 45X/46XY males reach male puberty without any hormonal supplementation. It all depends on where the 45X cells are formed. If the majority of sex organ cells are formed by 45X cells, which is uncommon, they will generally present with external female genitalia (may have clitoromegaly), some form of a vagina and uterus, and will almost always have streak gonads that can present as some form of testes or ovaries, or one of each. The females often require hormonal supplementation as the streak gonads aren't usually functional due to the presence of only one X chromosome. 45X/46XY individuals are fairly rare.
If you're referring to 46XX/46XY, that isn't genetic mosaicism. That's a chimeric genetic disorder. They can present with genital ambiguity, true hermaphroditism, or normal genitalia dependent on where the XX and XY cells are located. Again, these are pretty rare, at least in case study.
Just for the humor of it, here's a satirical scale for determining sex in genital ambiguity.
