You did, while misapplying doctrine to fit a ridiculous theme.
The Truth About Socialism
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You did, while misapplying doctrine to fit a ridiculous theme.
Nazi policies are left on any American scale. I'm not sure what to say to you if you don't understand it.
Whatever Poke. The ridiculous theme is that Nazism is "far-left." But I have no doubt you will continue to believe whatever you want to believe
And I am sorry you believe this inaccurate nonsense. I too am not sure what to say to you if that is what you want to believe.
So I guess we will move on to other discussions.
People that are wrong and don't want to admit it suggest you move on.
Start posting Nazi policies that correlate with right leaning policy
No, sometimes it is just wise to recognize a useless conversation. Why not move on? You aren't going to change your mind. I could give you link after link after link (I have already provided a few), but you aren't going to change your mind.
I gave you where Nazism falls on the political spectrum. If you don't want to accept that, so be it. I'll leave you with this article...
https://psmag.com/social-justice/was-hitler-a-man-of-the-left-8542
It's NOT a straight line. Look at the top of a much more accurate (though not perfect) ideological map. You go far enough left or right and you run into each other at authoritarianism.
You think far left communism is actually far away from "far right" nazism. They have way more in common than not. The actual opposite of both of these things is libertarianism.
You gave me a spectrum that indicates that it falls on the far left, yet you claim it's a far right ideology.
All I'm asking is that you correct yourself with evidence and not some cowardly let's agree to disagree bullshit
All I'm asking is that you correct yourself with evidence and not some cowardly let's agree to disagree bullshit
It's NOT a straight line. Look at the top of a much more accurate (though not perfect) ideological map. You go far enough left or right and you run into each other at authoritarianism.
You think far left communism is actually far away from "far right" nazism. They have way more in common than not. The actual opposite of both of these things is libertarianism.
I've seen this diagram before and it is essentially similar to the diagram I provide with a few minor differences. Nothing worth debating though.
Still, Nazism was not and is not a "far-leftist" ideology.
Most reasonable people know what the Nazis were and where they fell on the political spectrum. There has been a movement recently though on the right in America to label Nazism as a far-left ideology. People like Dinesh D'Souza have pushed such an agenda.
One last time...
This is not the straight line political spectrum that is traditionally used though. If we are using that, then Nazism would be on far-right while communism would be on the far-left.
One last time...
This is not the straight line political spectrum that is traditionally used though. If we are using that, then Nazism would be on far-right while communism would be on the far-left.
They are not far right on that scale which is your claim
No, the only difference between the dual axis chart you present and the straight line (single axis) political spectrum is the addition of an authoritarian variable axis added to the left/right variable axis.
Consequently, the dual axis chart you provide indicates that Nazism is on the right, but not the extreme far right, on the single left/right variable axis....and that’s where they would also be on the straight line political spectrum that is traditionally used (which is nothing more than the left/right single axis in the other dual axis chart). Such interpretation would also be in line with the sphere analysis provided.
Exactly, which is also usually taken into consideration in a straight line analysis, just not expressly shown (one of the weaknesses of such an analysis is my opinion). Which is why typically, Nazism is listed as far-right on that spectrum while communism is listed as far-left. That is why, btw, I included the chart that I believe gives a more accurate analysis.
Either way, Nazism is not a leftist or far-leftist political philosophy.
What is taken into consideration in the straight line analysis? Authoritarianism?
If that’s what you are saying, you’re just wrong.
Maybe you’re saying that though Nazism is typically listed as far right on a single straight left/right axis, but such a typical listing is inaccurate and untrue....but I don’t think so. I think you are saying that Nazism is accurately and correctly depicted as far right on a single left/right axis.
It’s really simple...the straight line analysis is a simple left/right variable....that’s it. And Nazism is not far right on a left/right axis. If it is “typically” portrayed as such, it is “typically” portrayed inaccurately.
It’s not a leftist or far-leftist political philosophy. It is likewise not a far-right political philosophy.
No, that is not what I am saying. That is the flaw in my opinion of a straight line analysis, it doesn't accurately take into full consideration both axes. That is why I presented the other chart.
I am claiming that Nazism is typically listed as far right on a singe straight axis (just as communism is listed as far left) but that such an analysis isn't completely accurate. That is again why I included the other chart. I was seeking to provide a more accurate analysis than the typical straight line view.
But yes, Nazism is not a leftist political philosophy which was essentially the original claim I was responding to and the claim that was repeatedly being made by a poster. If I caused any confusion in my response, sorry about that.
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In America, the right includes economic and social conservatives. It's not the same way in Europe - - economic conservatives are labeled left. Here, the right embraces capitalism and free markets. The “right” in Europe is defined as anti-capitalism.
Using a European label of “far right” for Nazism is a way to mark American conservatives as racist. The truth is that they are on the left of center on our scale.
Using a European label of “far right” for Nazism is a way to mark American conservatives as racist. The truth is that they are on the left of center on our scale.
At this point 2cents is just weaving all over the road with a BAC of 400. The crash is coming. Or he just parks, passes out, and wakes up later with no memory of today.
You mean, somthing similar to what imprimis sought to do by equating liberals and Democrats to Nazis?...
Again, Nazism is not a leftist political philosophy. And I don't say that just to disparage American conservtives. I don't think American conservatives are Nazis.
So Margaret Thatcher was a left wing politician in Europe?
I’ll repeat (with a bit of editing) the same two comments:
The Nazi's had social economic policies of course, but as far the rigidity of the social classes, very conservative social structure, no homosexuals. the supremacy of the state over the individual, etc...That's pretty far right wing, I'd say.
Also, why would Hitler spend page after page railing on Marxism in Mein Kampf?
You keep throwing out words and phrases that mean nothing to an American citizen debating American political matrices and I'd like to know why.
Give me some examples of how Nazi social class structure is similar to what the AMERICAN Right backs here in the good ol USA. Because when I look at it, I don't see any. What comes close is China's Party class system of the Politburo, Party Tiers, etc., and you would put that left of center.
American Conservative's social structure is based Judaeo-Christian values. It's a disgusting that anyone would draw a comparison of Conservative Christians to what Nazi's did the Jews.
How did Homosexuals fare under Stalin's left wing regime?
What American other than JFK have you ever heard proselytize the supremacy of the state over the individual? And even he didn't mean it in the context you are implying here. It's not a philosophical construct we associate with as Americans that hold dear to individual liberties.
So show me the far-right if you please.
Are we arguing the same topic? I'm not comparing Nazi's to right wing Americans or trying to connect the two. I'm saying the fascist party of Germany was, and fascism in general is a right wing ideology.
You just sound like you resent the comparison more than anything and it's clouding your historical viewpoint.
Is Fascism right wing? Was Mussolini a right wing politician? What about Franco? You said the right is "defined" in Europe as anti-capitalist. That means Thatcher's on the left?
How close are Fascism and Marxism on your American political spectrum?
I do resent the comparison and so should every American. You watch any TV or read any print or social media lately? While you aren't calling conservatives Nazis, Fascist, etc, it's a major theme in our society.
I agree with you. People do throw those terms, not knowing what they mean, with ill intent until their meaning gets twisted and subjective. I don't think conservative Americans are Nazi-like or sympathizers or anything like that. I DO think the American right is closer to Fascism than the American left. Just like the left is closer to Communism than the right is. Both are totalitarian in nature and just have different ways of accomplishing that.
I don't think the Nazi's actually belong on any political spectrum because of the intense racial aspect of it. But, Fascism does, which is the comparison I think a lot of people are clumsily making when they call Trump a Nazi or whatever.
Fascists is the slur that the Soviets invented to insult the Nazis. So I guess we're back to square one.
I need evidence of that. I don't believe that is true. Did Mussolini not coin the term?
Are you saying Fascism is not real?
The term is Roman and goes back forever. Using it as a political insult however, was made popular by the Russians.
I don't agree and don't think that is correct.
Besides, it's not an insult. It's like calling someone a Communist. It's only an insult if you take it that way.
Are you saying the word Fascism has no meaning?
Many attribute the invention of the word “racism” to Leon Trotsky — intellectual architect of the Bolshevik Revolution.
Calling your political opposition a fascist in America is always an insult. Yes it has a meaning.
But, WHAT does it mean? Is it the equivalent of calling someone a son of a bitch? Is it just an insult? Or is it an insult with specific connotations?
If you called someone a commie and you meant it in a negative way, what would you be inferring about that person? What attributes?
Instead of bantering back and forth why don't you two define your terms. What is fascism and how is it defined as opposed to Naziism? Are they the same thing, or do they differ in any way? What is socialism and how is it different from communism? You might be able to come to a mutual consensus if you would agree as to what you are talking about.
People who have read and studied Trotsky’s iconic 1932 book: History of the Russian Revolution.
There’s a passage in the book about racism, that’s believed to be to be the first time the word was ever used in print form.
To me Facism is the ideology that the state and it's chief characteristic (culture, color, language, creed) is considered more important the individual and society/government compels you to fit a certain mold and not allow deviation from the norm... I'd consider theocracies fascist. But, typically it's of the people and the culture and the je ne sais quoi of the nation. The Nazi's made that quality one of racial characteristics. Fascism is not inherently racist. Nazism is.
As far as Communism I think it's the abolition of class and in theory large scale public ownership of production. In reality, always, state owned. But, wouldn't the ideal Communist world would be one without borders and one government, one language, no religion, etc.... Led by the proletariat, the belief that a steel worker in Cleveland is the same as a steel worker in Shanghai and both are being exploited. I don't think that is the same, perfect world for a Fascist.
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What does this prove? You can't 'invent' a slur if it's already a word. It can only morph into that or subjectively be considered that.
If I claimed to be a Fascist, what does that mean to you?
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