The Myths we tell ourselves

[OSUCAESAR]

1) Nato doctrine is superior to Soviet/Russian doctrine

This goes something like this: Russians only follow orders and Russian officers are not free to take advantage of tactical opportunities.

I believed this once. And the swift American victories in the gulf war in 1991 and 2003 seemed to confirm this.

Reality: A reading of Soviet/Russian tactical doctrine gives wide latitude for officers down the line of command. Further, a sober examination of the tactics and performance of the performance of the AMerican Army leaves much to be desired. Rommel thought we were pitfull. The only saving grace for the american army in WW2 was the enormous power and number of artillery. We never ran out and shot accuratly and well. It made up for a somewhat disorganized and subpar armor and leadership.

Meanwhile Russian strategic doctrine was what won the war. An unfolding of multiple offensives instead of one great effort meant no culmination of any strategic offensive led to along a long front. Any german counteroffensive that was successful led to a lengthening of the front and a Cauldron that forced a retreat.

2) Western Tanks are far superior to Russian ones.

This is now laughable. When Abrams go against white people and not brown people they get destroyed.

3) Russian S-300, s-400, s-500 can be defeated. Patriot systems are better.

This clearly is false.

4) The American Army is the best in the world

The Russian Army is the best in the world.

 

[SquatchinPoke]

Haha you found a way to be racist talking about tanks I mean you have to be AI.

 

[OSUCAESAR]

racist talking about tanks

Racism is not what you think it is.

Do you think it is racist that I think the average asian is smarter than the average white person? Beciae Iq tests say they are.

What about the fact I think arabs suck at warfighting? Is that racist?

Evidence suggests they aren't very good.

I tend to think racism is the irrational judgement or treatment of people or peoples not based on facts.

Blacks are 14% of the population but commit over 50% of the violent crimes. Is it reasonable for a white person to avoid black parts of town? Is that racist or reasonable?

 

[OUSOONER67]

Racism is not what you think it is.

Do you think it is racist that I think the average asian is smarter than the average white person? Beciae Iq tests say they are.

What about the fact I think arabs suck at warfighting? Is that racist?

Evidence suggests they aren't very good.

I tend to think racism is the irrational judgement or treatment of people or peoples not based on facts.

Blacks are 14% of the population but commit over 50% of the violent crimes. Is it reasonable for a white person to avoid black parts of town? Is that racist or reasonable?

Racebaiters (Dims) and Politicians (yep Dims again) love to keep everything about Race, keeps both in power and rich while the easily manipulated fight with each other and stay distracted to what they are doing.
Yes Arabs suck at fighting, throwing rocks and shoes will not win a war, look out when Iran gets a Nuke, all bets are off.
And if you want to live you best stay out of all black areas especially at night.
MAGA isn't racist, see Jessie Smollett. They had to manufacture that bs. 🤣

 

[SquatchinPoke]

Racism is not what you think it is.

Do you think it is racist that I think the average asian is smarter than the average white person? Beciae Iq tests say they are.

What about the fact I think arabs suck at warfighting? Is that racist?

Evidence suggests they aren't very good.

I tend to think racism is the irrational judgement or treatment of people or peoples not based on facts.

Blacks are 14% of the population but commit over 50% of the violent crimes. Is it reasonable for a white person to avoid black parts of town? Is that racist or reasonable?

 

[ClintonDavidScott]

The Russian Army is the best in the world.

The same army that has to recruit from its own prisons?

Russian soldiers forced to rape each other, allegations of front-line violence: report

A Russian news outlet interviewed several soldiers who described brutal conditions in which troops recruited from prisons abuse their comrades.

www.businessinsider.com

The best army in the world is in North Korea, unfortunately.





carry on

 

[SquatchinPoke]

Please dear 7 lbs baby Jesus let Brit and Clint go at it over the military might of the world armies.

 

[SquatchinPoke]

Would Turks be considered brown?

 

[COWBOYintheUK]

1) Nato doctrine is superior to Soviet/Russian doctrine

This goes something like this: Russians only follow orders and Russian officers are not free to take advantage of tactical opportunities.

I believed this once. And the swift American victories in the gulf war in 1991 and 2003 seemed to confirm this.

Reality: A reading of Soviet/Russian tactical doctrine gives wide latitude for officers down the line of command. Further, a sober examination of the tactics and performance of the performance of the AMerican Army leaves much to be desired. Rommel thought we were pitfull. The only saving grace for the american army in WW2 was the enormous power and number of artillery. We never ran out and shot accuratly and well. It made up for a somewhat disorganized and subpar armor and leadership.

Meanwhile Russian strategic doctrine was what won the war. An unfolding of multiple offensives instead of one great effort meant no culmination of any strategic offensive led to along a long front. Any german counteroffensive that was successful led to a lengthening of the front and a Cauldron that forced a retreat.

2) Western Tanks are far superior to Russian ones.

This is now laughable. When Abrams go against white people and not brown people they get destroyed.

3) Russian S-300, s-400, s-500 can be defeated. Patriot systems are better.

This clearly is false.

4) The American Army is the best in the world

The Russian Army is the best in the world.

You are wrong on each of those points.........Have you even ever served in the US Military? Served in NATO? Have a clue about any of this?

The only one you were close on was that Rommel thought we were pitiful.....but, that was right after he beat the crap out of us at Kasserine pass, which was our first engagement with the Nazis'

 

[Marocain Poke]

There's no room in which Caeser believes he is not the smartest guy.

 

[2012Bearcat]

There's no room in which Caeser believes he is not the smartest guy.

And when he figures out he is not the smartest in the room he leaves it for another. Sound familiar?

 

[LAY THE WOODY]

And when he figures out he is not the smartest in the room he leaves it for another. Sound familiar?

Caesar definitely belongs in another.

 

[AC2020]

I like Caesar.

He tells you what he thinks and doesn't care what you think about him.

And his takes are always, always, entertaining, even when we don't agree.

Entertaining on message boards is always good.

 

[LAY THE WOODY]

I like Caesar.

He tells you what he thinks and doesn't care what you think about him.

And his takes are always, always, entertaining, even when we don't agree.

Entertaining on message boards is always good.

I miss Dan. 😁

 

[iasooner2000]

Romell was full of himself

Patton kicked the hell out of his team when R took his ball and stayed at home

 

[OSUCAESAR]

Patton leads the way on overrated commanders of World War 2.

 

[aliabedi]

1) Nato doctrine is superior to Soviet/Russian doctrine

This goes something like this: Russians only follow orders and Russian officers are not free to take advantage of tactical opportunities.

I believed this once. And the swift American victories in the gulf war in 1991 and 2003 seemed to confirm this.

Reality: A reading of Soviet/Russian tactical doctrine gives wide latitude for officers down the line of command. Further, a sober examination of the tactics and performance of the performance of the AMerican Army leaves much to be desired. Rommel thought we were pitfull. The only saving grace for the american army in WW2 was the enormous power and number of artillery. We never ran out and shot accuratly and well. It made up for a somewhat disorganized and subpar armor and leadership.

Meanwhile Russian strategic doctrine was what won the war. An unfolding of multiple offensives instead of one great effort meant no culmination of any strategic offensive led to along a long front. Any german counteroffensive that was successful led to a lengthening of the front and a Cauldron that forced a retreat.

2) Western Tanks are far superior to Russian ones.

This is now laughable. When Abrams go against white people and not brown people they get destroyed.

3) Russian S-300, s-400, s-500 can be defeated. Patriot systems are better.

This clearly is false.

4) The American Army is the best in the world

The Russian Army is the best in the world.

There are a lot more myths that we all believe in

 

[2012Bearcat]

Patton leads the way on overrated commanders of World War 2.

Historians generally agree that Patton was not only one of the greatest military leaders that the United States has ever produced but also one of the most complex and contradictory.

United States General George Patton made his reputation in North Africa and Sicily. The Germans feared his skill and bravura. Therefore he was put in charge of the fictional 1st U.S. Army Group, a successful ruse to convince the Germans that the invasion of Europe would take place in Calais, and not in Normandy.

In spite of his questionable temperament and a long history of harsh decisions, Patton would go through both World Wars making his impressive marks on the battlefront during WWII and come to be known as the top battlefield commander the United States Army had ever produced.

Patton was an exceptional battlefield commander but was terrible with the politics.

 

[AC2020]

My grandfather served under Patton in WW2.

He earned 2 bronze stars.

He hated Patton's guts until the day he died.

 

[2012Bearcat]

My grandfather served under Patton in WW2.

He earned 2 bronze stars.

He hated Patton's guts until the day he died.

My high school girlfriend's grandfather was in the Battle of the Bulge. He didn't talk about it, despite my efforts but he did say he was very appreciative of Patton's efforts to get to Bastogne.

 

[long-duc-dong]

Patton leads the way on overrated commanders of World War 2.

 

[Marocain Poke]

There are a lot more myths that we all believe in

Like the myth you believe that you have moral ground to stand on when you wag your finger at Israel defending itself against Gaza's military?

 

[soonerinlOUisiana]

Patton leads the way on overrated commanders of World War 2.

Not seeing this. Patton was one of the great generals of time, though granted, he owes a lot of his mystique to George C. Scott.

By today’s standards, I think most WW2 commanders would be considered overrated. When you think about it, D-Day was a success because the Allies landed more troops on the beach than the Germans could shoot. No way that would fly in today’s world.

 

[iasooner2000]

Our air support industrial complex was largely responsible for us winning WW2 and “lend lease” to Britain & Russia

 

[EZ Reyes]

Our air support industrial complex was largely responsible for us winning WW2 and “lend lease” to Britain & Russia

Ford Motors.

 

[07pilt]

Our air support industrial complex was largely responsible for us winning WW2 and “lend lease” to Britain & Russia

This. They were scrapping planes in the pacific for having scratched paint because they were running out of places to put all the new planes the factories were pumping out.

 

[OSUCAESAR]

The Russians were well on their way to collapsing the Eastern Front before lend lease. It basically did nothing.

It did collapse the British Empire.

 

[ghostofaaronhill]

The Russians were well on their way to collapsing the Eastern Front before lend lease. It basically did nothing.

It did collapse the British Empire.

Do you have a source on this? Because my entire academic career studying and teaching post-Metternich Europe would say lend-lease “basically did nothing” would not be how I describe it at all. I’d love to read a book or article explaining how the Soviets already had the war won.

 

[OSUCAESAR]

I describe it at all. I’d love to read a book or article explaining how the Soviets already had the war won.

I can save you the time of reading 25 books and instead refer you to one of the greatest substacks on the planet: Big Serge.

https://bigserge.substack.com/

Well worth the money. Start at the beginning and you will learn all about WW2 and the Russia Ukraine war


What's funny about lend lease is that it was nothing of the sort. The Soviets fleeced the US and paid nothing back. But then, they were given nothing of substance. It wasn't Shermans flooding unstoppably into Berlin. It was T-34's. The Russians have had the best tanks, the best generals, the best rifles for close to a century now.

 

[COWBOYintheUK]

The T-34 was one of the best tanks in WW2, but still was not match one on one with the Tiger and Panther, but as we had with the Sherman, they had far superior numbers, and as the war progressed their crews were trained to not only operate the tanks but repairs them as well, so fewer were left on the battlefield.....but.......the T-72, T-80, T-90 and even the T-14 are all far inferior to the Leopard 2, Challenger 2 and M1A1 /2 ........The Abrams Tanks have met Russian tanks numerous times and have never been defeated by one. Now, this one Abrams that was lost in Ukraine, they do not know what.... hit it yet, so there is still some question about that one. The largest tank battle evolving M1A1s was 73 Easting in the Iraq desert, where we destroyed 160 Republican guard T-62 and T-72 tanks , plus another 200 armored vehicles without a single M1A1 loss....as I said, last weeks loss is still being investigated, but up to that, an M1A1 / 2 has never been lost to enemy tank fire

 

[ghostofaaronhill]

I can save you the time of reading 25 books and instead refer you to one of the greatest substacks on the planet: Big Serge.

https://bigserge.substack.com/

Well worth the money. Start at the beginning and you will learn all about WW2 and the Russia Ukraine war


What's funny about lend lease is that it was nothing of the sort. The Soviets fleeced the US and paid nothing back. But then, they were given nothing of substance. It wasn't Shermans flooding unstoppably into Berlin. It was T-34's. The Russians have had the best tanks, the best generals, the best rifles for close to a century now.

Need more about food and jeeps in here. Also an important part of lend/lease. And I guess I’m too old to know what a sub stack is, but I’m going to take the decades of my reading over “Big Serge”, but I’ll look into it. Thanks.

 

[COWBOYintheUK]

That was one of the things that helped Russia the most in Lend / lease....the jeeps and trucks, it allowed their factories to concentrate on producing T-34s.........logistics is the key, you have to have the supplies and more importantly, the ability to get those supplies to the front lines.......Amateurs talk tactics....experts talk logistics

 

[OSUCAESAR]

The T-34 was one of the best tanks in WW2, but still was not match one on one with the Tiger and Panther, but as we had with the Sherman, they had far superior numbers, and as the war progressed their crews were trained to not only operate the tanks but repairs them as well, so fewer were left on the battlefield.....but.......the T-72, T-80, T-90 and even the T-14 are all far inferior to the Leopard 2, Challenger 2 and M1A1 /2 ........The Abrams Tanks have met Russian tanks numerous times and have never been defeated by one. Now, this one Abrams that was lost in Ukraine, they do not know what.... hit it yet, so there is still some question about that one. The largest tank battle evolving M1A1s was 73 Easting in the Iraq desert, where we destroyed 160 Republican guard T-62 and T-72 tanks , plus another 200 armored vehicles without a single M1A1 loss....as I said, last weeks loss is still being investigated, but up to that, an M1A1 / 2 has never been lost to enemy tank fire

So far 4 Abrams tanks have been knocked out. They don't have a single kill. The Russians are not the Iraqi's my friend.