The illusion of nationalism

[CSCOTTOSUPOKES]

Nope it doesn't. Do you know why?

I believe, and it’s my opinion, but it’s been backed up by the facts - especially the last few months - that CNN and their legal team does a much better job of vetting information, documents, facts. And when they’ve had mistakes made, those who’ve done it have quickly lost their jobs.

This hasn’t happened enough at Fox, certainly not on the highest-rated programs.

 

[HighStickHarry]

I believe, and it’s my opinion, but it’s been backed up by the facts - especially the last few months - that CNN and their legal team does a much better job of vetting information, documents, facts. And when they’ve had mistakes made, those who’ve done it have quickly lost their jobs.

This hasn’t happened enough at Fox, certainly not on the highest-rated programs.

I’ve asked you twice to breakdown the Fox News personalities I provided as biased. It shows a great deal of mental illness on your part to keep ignoring me and to keep spouting this Fox News crap.

You know you can’t do it.

 

[davidallen]

What are the parameters of not being nationalist? Is it OK to be proud to be French? Is it OK to go to a military parade? What makes someone know that they are safe from being an evil nationalist?

Patriotism, national pride are not nationalism.

Without going out to a dictionary I define nationalism as the advocacy of and concrete actions that advance the interests of a nation at the expense of or indifferent to the interests of other nations or at the expense of common interest.

 

[HighStickHarry]

Patriotism, national pride are not nationalism.

Without going out to a dictionary I define nationalism as the advocacy of and concrete actions that advance the interests of a nation at the expense of or indifferent to the interests of other nations or at the expense of common interest.

What my side and your side will never agree on, outside of immorality and violence, that is exactly what every country should be doing.

Who the hell defines common interest? Again outside of immorality (which we would differ on) and violence, who says what is common interest? The majority? The party in power? My culture and sharia law will never meet in the middle on common interest.

 

[CSCOTTOSUPOKES]

What my side and your side will never agree on, outside of immorality and violence, that is exactly what every country should be doing.

Who the hell defines common interest? Again outside of immorality (which we would differ on) and violence, who says what is common interest? The majority? The party in power? My culture and sharia law will never meet in the middle on common interest.

You do realize sharia law doesn’t take precedence over state and federal law, no? So if a Muslim does something criminal in our law, sharia law doesn’t protect them?

 

[CSCOTTOSUPOKES]

“This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.”

 

[HighStickHarry]

You do realize sharia law doesn’t take precedence over state and federal law, no? So if a Muslim does something criminal in our law, sharia law doesn’t protect them?

I’m not engaging you until you answer my Fox News question. Don’t be so empty man stand up and answer.

 

[HighStickHarry]

You do realize sharia law doesn’t take precedence over state and federal law, no? So if a Muslim does something criminal in our law, sharia law doesn’t protect them?

Plus this has zero to do with what I was talking about.

 

[CSCOTTOSUPOKES]

Plus this has zero to do with what I was talking about.

I get that your islamaphobia drives your narratives. That’s well-known to everyone by now.

As for your Fox question, if I told they might be good journalists (I’ll have to watch them more), would you agree that Fox’s highest-rated talking heads damage the overall reputation? Doctored emails, Seth Rich, etc. Hell, when Donna Brazile was busted, CNN fires her immediately lol.

 

[HighStickHarry]

I get that your islamaphobia drives your narratives. That’s well-known to everyone by now.

As for your Fox question, if I told they might be good journalists (I’ll have to watch them more), would you agree that Fox’s highest-rated talking heads damage the overall reputation? Doctored emails, Seth Rich, etc. Hell, when Donna Brazile was busted, CNN fires her immediately lol.

First part is irrelevant. I’m trying to have an adult conversation with David Allen that you aren’t understanding.

If all cable news networks have the same issue, biased rumor based reporting by zealots, it’s called a wash. But during the day it’s not close. Sunday’s it’s not close. Just watch John Roberts operate at the White House as their main correspondent and compare it to that escaped chimpanzee Jim Acosta. Watch Roberts reporting during obama years. Take all the moderators that did any prez debate and put them in a basket. Pick them out and put them into anti trump, pro trump or you don’t know piles. If you can’t see past that exercise, you honestly have mental barriers that I just can’t communicate past.

Scott Pruitt got smoked by I think james Rosen the other day. When was the last time cnn nailed a liberal to the wall in a sit down interview? Maybe before they went anti trump as a channel in 2015.

 

[CSCOTTOSUPOKES]

First part is irrelevant. I’m trying to have an adult conversation with David Allen that you aren’t understanding.

If all cable news networks have the same issue, biased rumor based reporting by zealots, it’s called a wash. But during the day it’s not close. Sunday’s it’s not close. Just watch John Roberts operate at the White House as their main correspondent and compare it to that escaped chimpanzee Jim Acosta. Watch Roberts reporting during obama years. Take all the moderators that did any prez debate and put them in a basket. Pick them out and put them into anti trump, pro trump or you don’t know piles. If you can’t see past that exercise, you honestly have mental barriers that I just can’t communicate past.

Scott Pruitt got smoked by I think james Rosen the other day. When was the last time cnn nailed a liberal to the wall in a sit down interview? Maybe before they went anti trump as a channel in 2015.

So you’re really just saying what you saying because of your own biases. Jim Acosta goes right at the bullsh!t from SHS and Trump...your unwillingness to see that is your own problem. Do you think Hannity should’ve been suspended for pimping the Seth Rich conspiracy theory? What about Tucker Carlson and the NRA-family-loonies and their doctored emails?



Christians have their own criminals in this country, so the need for you and others to place some moral superiority on high is illogical. Case in point...do you believe in God and Jesus Christ enough to have them fix your son/daughter’s broken leg without medical treatment? There are plenty in this country who believe faith and healing fix everything. Not to mention, the rampant sexual deviance we hear all-too-often about lol.


The “my team is better than your team” narrative isn’t working for you.

 

[HighStickHarry]

 

[HighStickHarry]

I lol’d when you lol’d at sexual deviance

 

[CSCOTTOSUPOKES]

View embedded media

Funny lol...Kanye said Cosby is innocent. I guess we’ll see haha

 

[CSCOTTOSUPOKES]

Google “church sexual assault”...it’s like a runaway train of hypocrisy in Christianity. 24/7

 

[Medic007]

This is awesome. Harry is playing the violin, viola, cello, and double bass at the same time while Toon chases a fake plastic rabbit around the track thinking it's going to be tasty when he finally catches it.

 

[Medic007]

@CSCOTTOSUPOKES, what was the meaning of the handle "Toontown?" Real nickname, connection to the college days, some random shit? Just curious.

 

[CSCOTTOSUPOKES]

This is awesome. Harry is playing the violin, viola, cello, and double bass at the same time while Toon chases a fake plastic rabbit around the track thinking it's going to be tasty when he finally catches it.

Opinions vary

 

[CSCOTTOSUPOKES]

@CSCOTTOSUPOKES, what was the meaning of the handle "Toontown?" Real nickname, connection to the college days, some random shit? Just curious.

I loved Saturday morning cartoons as a kid

 

[Medic007]

Opinions vary

Sure they do. And you just made an excellent point about the media as well.

 

[Medic007]

I loved Saturday morning cartoons as a kid

Now that's something we have in common. I also loved the old Mid South Wrestling. Not sure that was still around in your kid days. I wanted to do physical harm to Skandar Akbar. He was one giant cheating asshole.

Looking back, he was the perfect villain of the time considering the issues with Iran. That shit would get melted by a death ray in 2 milliseconds these days. So would Blazing Saddles and probably Monty Python. Cheech and Chong is a toss up.

If you aren't familiar my most hated villian of the day...

 

[N. Pappagiorgio]

. Case in point...do you believe in God and Jesus Christ enough to have them fix your son/daughter’s broken leg without medical treatment? There are plenty in this country who believe faith and healing fix everything.

What percent of “Christians” believe this?

 

[davidallen]

What my side and your side will never agree on, outside of immorality and violence, that is exactly what every country should be doing.

Who the hell defines common interest? Again outside of immorality (which we would differ on) and violence, who says what is common interest? The majority? The party in power? My culture and sharia law will never meet in the middle on common interest.

Common interest examples:

• Stopping Hitler (covered in your answer)
• Nuclear non proliferation
• Enforcing a high price for chemical weapon use
• International bodies to adjudicate disputes as an alternative to war - United Nations
• International bodies to adjudicate trade disputes - see WTO
• Coordinated action on sustainability issues - see Paris Climate Accord

You seem to think this is an either/or situation as in "I won't given an inch to Sharia law so **** it all..."

 

[Medic007]

You seem to think this is an either/or situation as in "I won't given an inch to Sharia law so **** it all..."

Would you give an inch to Sharia law? If so, what would that inch consist of?

 

[HighStickHarry]

was stopping hitler in the common interest of Germans in Poland? In Austria?

These seem like extreme examples that Donald trump has taken no action against except the Paris climate accord. You think global warming is going to cause major damage to the world. Lots of people think that. Lots of people think it’s bs. See how your opinion of common interst becomes priority over others?

I’m saying I think the way Muslims treat gays and women will never match up with how we view gays and women. But if our country acts in its own interest and Pakistan acts in their own interest the cultures get to exist simultanrosly wallah nationalism.

I happen to think western culture, despite its checkered history is the best culture on the planet. I see America as the trendsetter for that so I think we should act in our interest first. America first. I have no problem with turkey doing what it thinks is best or Russia as long as it isn’t universally immoral.

It’s capitalism of thought. If everyone is greedy the gears turn. If all countries compete economically and culturally we all benefit. The best ideas win.

European capitulating to the Muslim invasion is the blue print for thinking a global common interest will be a net gain for society.

 

[Rdcldad]

after eight years of otard
this is an actual thought process

 

[CBradSmith]

was stopping hitler in the common interest of Germans in Poland? In Austria?

These seem like extreme examples that Donald trump has taken no action against except the Paris climate accord. You think global warming is going to cause major damage to the world. Lots of people think that. Lots of people think it’s bs. See how your opinion of common interst becomes priority over others?

I’m saying I think the way Muslims treat gays and women will never match up with how we view gays and women. But if our country acts in its own interest and Pakistan acts in their own interest the cultures get to exist simultanrosly wallah nationalism.

I happen to think western culture, despite its checkered history is the best culture on the planet. I see America as the trendsetter for that so I think we should act in our interest first. America first. I have no problem with turkey doing what it thinks is best or Russia as long as it isn’t universally immoral.

It’s capitalism of thought. If everyone is greedy the gears turn. If all countries compete economically and culturally we all benefit. The best ideas win.

European capitulating to the Muslim invasion is the blue print for thinking a global common interest will be a net gain for society.

Dynamic.

Nothing stands (long) against dynamism.

 

[CBradSmith]

Is Macron a nut or a cookie? I can never remember.

Heard a clip today. Always get a laugh at the sound of French people speaking English.

 

[davidallen]

was stopping hitler in the common interest of Germans in Poland? In Austria?

These seem like extreme examples that Donald trump has taken no action against except the Paris climate accord. You think global warming is going to cause major damage to the world. Lots of people think that. Lots of people think it’s bs. See how your opinion of common interst becomes priority over others?

I’m saying I think the way Muslims treat gays and women will never match up with how we view gays and women. But if our country acts in its own interest and Pakistan acts in their own interest the cultures get to exist simultanrosly wallah nationalism.

I happen to think western culture, despite its checkered history is the best culture on the planet. I see America as the trendsetter for that so I think we should act in our interest first. America first. I have no problem with turkey doing what it thinks is best or Russia as long as it isn’t universally immoral.

It’s capitalism of thought. If everyone is greedy the gears turn. If all countries compete economically and culturally we all benefit. The best ideas win.

European capitulating to the Muslim invasion is the blue print for thinking a global common interest will be a net gain for society.

Collective interest is not the same as universal interest. I used the Hitler example because it is pretty much universally understood (other than by NZ) as a good thing that he was defeated. Your Sharia example is perfect, it is decidedly NOT in the common interest to accept an ideology that believes in the murder of people based on sexual orientation. Someone might debate the definition of Sharia but the tenant holds.

Trumps brand of Nationalism isn't about beating the Pakistanis into submission just as Obama's Globalism wasn't about adopting their ideology. That doesn't mean we can have common cause with Pakistan on issues such as disease prevention, nuclear nonproliferation, trade, etc.

You sound a bit PoncaDanish in this hope that anarchy leads to peace and prosperity.

 

[CSCOTTOSUPOKES]

Many ethnic Germans (regardless of location) were jailed, and ultimately killed, as political dissidents during Hitler’s reign

 

[HighStickHarry]

What are the cons of trump’s nationalism? What is he inhibiting or inflaming in his version that bothers you?

 

[davidallen]

What are the cons of trump’s nationalism? What is he inhibiting or inflaming in his version that bothers you?

The illusion of nationalism is that the benefits are more than short term. IMO Trump is the master of the short term gain at the expense of the long term. What do I think he has done that is damaging to the long term interests of the US:

• Abandoning international cooperation on climate issues epitomized by the Paris Accord.
• Undermining NATO commitments.
• Undermining American reliability to live up to negotiated agreements (NAFTA, the Iran agreement for instance)
• Zero-sum diplomacy with many different examples (from Turnbull forward) that have undermined American leadership.
• Trump embodying Orwells "competitive prestige" one upmanship of Merkel - probably our most effective Continental ally.
• Travel bans aimed as much about expressing power as the "safety and security" argument.

There are more, but this should give you an idea...

 

[davidallen]

I happen to think western culture, despite its checkered history is the best culture on the planet.

Who in your opinion is in the Western Culture Club? What defines Western Culture - is WC a proxy for Christianity?

 

[CBradSmith]

Who in your opinion is in the Western Culture Club? What defines Western Culture - is WC a proxy for Christianity?

You should know, Kahn Academy has some clips on the Renaissance, Age of Reason, the Scientific Revolution, and the Age of Enlightenment easily accessible online.

Many books on the topics as well. The Great Upheaval, etc...

 

[HighStickHarry]

The illusion of nationalism is that the benefits are more than short term. IMO Trump is the master of the short term gain at the expense of the long term. What do I think he has done that is damaging to the long term interests of the US:

• Abandoning international cooperation on climate issues epitomized by the Paris Accord.
• Undermining NATO commitments.
• Undermining American reliability to live up to negotiated agreements (NAFTA, the Iran agreement for instance)
• Zero-sum diplomacy with many different examples (from Turnbull forward) that have undermined American leadership.
• Trump embodying Orwells "competitive prestige" one upmanship of Merkel - probably our most effective Continental ally.
• Travel bans aimed as much about expressing power as the "safety and security" argument.

There are more, but this should give you an idea...

Half the country (voting half) thought the Paris accord was a bad idea.

Aren’t nato countries paying more because of his bullying? Do you actually think America under trump isn’t going to be the first one in a scrap that threatens nato? Is trump a madman that wants to get us into a world war or a meek kitten that will abandon nato when they need us? Somehow I hear both from the left.

So nafta can never be renegotiated? Is it just because trump wants to negotiate it? We will get to see the results of this soon.

What is Turnbull whining about?

Orwell has his definition of nationalism and trump fits it from what I just read. I think a lot of us just don’t see it as all negative. A lot of us want America to be dominant. We want influence on the world. We want people to learn English and wear suits and copy our culture. We want Russia and Islam and other cultures to realize the west is the best or be bedowngraded at their own peril.

I’ll admit the travel ban was a statement. I don’t care. It was funny watching something called a Muslim ban only ban ten% of Muslims. It showed the lefts hysteria. I think most on the right realize there are western and peaceful Muslims in the world. We also realize that Muslims coming in this country is not like ordering off a menu where we can pick and choose the educated and most peaceful. We see the culture as a whole, all 1.8 billion people as something that is mostly in contrast with our beliefs. Especially liberal beliefs which is astonishing to us to watch liberals embrace what generally should be their enemy.

When all countries agree not to be nationalist, America can abandon it. Until then it is absolutely a competitive prestige.

 

[HighStickHarry]

Who in your opinion is in the Western Culture Club? What defines Western Culture - is WC a proxy for Christianity?

Obviously it’s tricky with exceptions but western and Northern Europe are on board. Eastern Europe is their own version. Australia of course. Is japan western culture? If you take out religion sure they are as well as South Korea. Israel too. Economic expansion as a goal, commercialism as the fuel to bring up those that wish to participate in the economy.

Is Dubai western? Jordan? Is China their own version? More than they were fifty years ago. It’s all complicated to pin down millions of people.

Is the whole Muslim world the taliban? Of course not, but let’s study the success rate of Muslim countries versus majority Christian countries. We exist, more and more in the vapors of Christianity, but the morality in the gospels in my opinion are positives in our cultural rise. But the other ingredients are greed, nationalism, exploitation and the insatiable thirst for progress that will eventually kill us all.

 

[HanAholeSolo2.0]

I get that your islamaphobia drives your narratives. That’s well-known to everyone by now.

@07pilt

your boy here is calling people islamaphobic. does that pass your purity test since it's just @HighStickHarry or is it uncharitable? need a ruling. thanks.

 

[07pilt]

@07pilt

your boy here is calling people islamaphobic. does that pass your purity test since it's just @HighStickHarry or is it uncharitable? need a ruling. thanks.

Do you think HHS needs help here?

 

[davidallen]

Obviously it’s tricky with exceptions but western and Northern Europe are on board. Eastern Europe is their own version. Australia of course. Is japan western culture? If you take out religion sure they are as well as South Korea. Israel too. Economic expansion as a goal, commercialism as the fuel to bring up those that wish to participate in the economy.

Is Dubai western? Jordan? Is China their own version? More than they were fifty years ago. It’s all complicated to pin down millions of people.

Is the whole Muslim world the taliban? Of course not, but let’s study the success rate of Muslim countries versus majority Christian countries. We exist, more and more in the vapors of Christianity, but the morality in the gospels in my opinion are positives in our cultural rise. But the other ingredients are greed, nationalism, exploitation and the insatiable thirst for progress that will eventually kill us all.

You should know, Kahn Academy has some clips on the Renaissance, Age of Reason, the Scientific Revolution, and the Age of Enlightenment easily accessible online.

Many books on the topics as well. The Great Upheaval, etc...

In these posts I see this tension between tradition and current values. For me history might be useful in explaining how we got where we are, but holds us back in significant ways.

Brad, you on board with Harry that the gays are off limits for special harsh treatment in Western Cultures? Or are you more on the traditionalist view that they shouldn't be slaughtered but neither should they be accomodated, say with the legal benefits of the marriage contract?

In any case, how does the supremacy of Western Culture equate to short term thinking? Do you think the West can isolate itself from the Others sufficiently that we don't need to worry about long term consequences?

 

[CBradSmith]

In these posts I see this tension between tradition and current values. For me history might be useful in explaining how we got where we are, but holds us back in significant ways.

Brad, you on board with Harry that the gays are off limits for special harsh treatment in Western Cultures? Or are you more on the traditionalist view that they shouldn't be slaughtered but neither should they be accomodated, say with the legal benefits of the marriage contract?

In any case, how does the supremacy of Western Culture equate to short term thinking? Do you think the West can isolate itself from the Others sufficiently that we don't need to worry about long term consequences?

Once again, with more direct sentences please.

That's too convoluted to respond to.